03:12 PM - June 7, 2012 by illwill10NCAA Football 13 News Post
03:12 PM - June 7, 2012 by illwill10NCAA Football 13 Videos
Member Comments
For me, that they weren't able to do a better job in tuning the CPU option attack, is a much bigger disappointment than not having RTP this year. Sliders will help some, but there are still some fundamental flaws in the A.I. of the QB and the RB, and in the blocking schemes. In non simmed games the options teams are still doomed to getting easily smashed by the User.
Psychic defenders may be gone, but it did seem like an example of psychic playcalling on that first GT play.
Psychic defenders may be gone, but it did seem like an example of psychic playcalling on that first GT play.
If you watch the motioning A-Back on the 5:05 triple option, you'll notice he does the backpedaling motion to maintain his pitch non-relationship.
I've always lived by the 4x1 or 5x1 rules for pitch relationship - 4 or 5 yards away from the QB, and a yard behind (AT MOST a yard behind; ideally, he'll be even with the QB at the LOS).
This back is several yards behind the QB when he gets the pitch, precisely because he does the dumb backpedal.
EA, I will work on this for free if you let me. I know option football. Please let me help you.
I've always lived by the 4x1 or 5x1 rules for pitch relationship - 4 or 5 yards away from the QB, and a yard behind (AT MOST a yard behind; ideally, he'll be even with the QB at the LOS).
This back is several yards behind the QB when he gets the pitch, precisely because he does the dumb backpedal.
EA, I will work on this for free if you let me. I know option football. Please let me help you.
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The option is one of the biggest gripes I have with the NCAA series as option teams have no shot against a USER team.
Defense still reacts instantly and plays behind the line of scrimmage. Defenders never take a false step. D-linemen never get caught in any trash. They pursue ridiculously fast. Pitch relationship seems better but, it appears one guy can still cover the QB and RB. All in all tackle animations are too fast and engulfing and defenders change direction in such an unrealistic way that one player can cover both QB and RB. If defenders are going to react that quickly maybe the pitch itself needs to be sped up.
The one play where the QB kept the ball was nice. Mechanically the offense is making the correct reads its just the defense reacts too fast. Where the defenders should be stringing plays out and staying parallel to the line of scrimmage they're attacking full bore. In real life you'd be able to kill a defense that's coming at you down hill with quick cuts upfield while still keeping a pitch relationship. Oh well. From time to time it looks like the option will work but, its still a little wonky.
The one play where the QB kept the ball was nice. Mechanically the offense is making the correct reads its just the defense reacts too fast. Where the defenders should be stringing plays out and staying parallel to the line of scrimmage they're attacking full bore. In real life you'd be able to kill a defense that's coming at you down hill with quick cuts upfield while still keeping a pitch relationship. Oh well. From time to time it looks like the option will work but, its still a little wonky.
# 25
Gotmadskillzson @ 06/07/12 05:18 PM
Just skip to the 30 second mark. This how the option attack suppose to look like.
How ever in EA Sports games, the Corner Backs, Safeties and Line Backers REACT INSTANTLY at the snap of the ball on running plays to the outside. So apparently read and react defense don't apply to the run defense. There is no false step, no hesitation at all by the defense. Snap of the ball, they just rush instantly to the ball at hike.
If you watch the above video, IN REAL LIFE, this don't happen. They don't react until they see what direction the ball carrier is running. And there isn't a swarm either by the safety or corner back on the side of the ball is run. Corner back be looking at the WR and don't instantly know the RB has the ball.
That is what makes the Option so deadly in real life. The fact that on defense, you don't know if they going to run to the left, run to the right or run up the middle. Because of this, you have a delay of where you suppose to run to and most of the time you end up being faked out and run to the left when the QB tossed it to the WB going to the right.
Option attack causes confusion. This confusion aspect is something EA Sports fails to capture.
How ever in EA Sports games, the Corner Backs, Safeties and Line Backers REACT INSTANTLY at the snap of the ball on running plays to the outside. So apparently read and react defense don't apply to the run defense. There is no false step, no hesitation at all by the defense. Snap of the ball, they just rush instantly to the ball at hike.
If you watch the above video, IN REAL LIFE, this don't happen. They don't react until they see what direction the ball carrier is running. And there isn't a swarm either by the safety or corner back on the side of the ball is run. Corner back be looking at the WR and don't instantly know the RB has the ball.
That is what makes the Option so deadly in real life. The fact that on defense, you don't know if they going to run to the left, run to the right or run up the middle. Because of this, you have a delay of where you suppose to run to and most of the time you end up being faked out and run to the left when the QB tossed it to the WB going to the right.
Option attack causes confusion. This confusion aspect is something EA Sports fails to capture.
Pursuit is ridiculous on those option plays. It’s like after snap they just run where the ball is going to be. Blocks disengage way to fast IMO.
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# 29
Gotmadskillzson @ 06/07/12 05:46 PM
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# 30
GruffyMcGuiness @ 06/07/12 06:12 PM
Doesn't look much better than last year. The A-backs and WR's usually just whiff on their blocks. The life of a Tech fan on NCAA...
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
I wish we could talk frankly with the designers about this sort of thing.
I wouldn't be abusive; I'd just like to know the rationale in running the A-Back so deep, or keeping him so far behing the QB in his pitch relationship, etc.
On the plus side, I saw a downfield cut block.
I wouldn't be abusive; I'd just like to know the rationale in running the A-Back so deep, or keeping him so far behing the QB in his pitch relationship, etc.
On the plus side, I saw a downfield cut block.
# 32
Kaiser Wilhelm @ 06/08/12 12:00 AM
Credit to whoever made the decision to show us the AI running the Triple Option, however the Triple Option still looks impotent.
I swear, the demo WR blocking on option plays is much better. Odd.
Yeah, psychic defense will means that by the time you fake to the FB, your QB is generally toast already. You either get tackled for no gain, or a loss, or you have to pitch it far sooner than any real QB usually would. This doesn't look much better. Maybe it's a slight improvement, but it's still broken. The load option and the speed option are still fairly successful, but another year of not having triple option is unfortunate.
First play-neither WR even makes it look like they considered maybe possibly thinking about becoming interested in attempting to block anyone. Not that this is anything new. No linemen pulled. The fullback I'm going to hope was attempting to sell this is a play to the far side of the field as the reason he didn't block anyone. Linemen didn't pull though, nor did they leave any defensive linemen unblocked. Then that FB might have had someone to block if that linemen pulled with the play. Then there only would have been 4 defenders in the QB's face instantly before he even had the option of pitching.
2nd play. Mainly repeat, but slightly better. One linemen did seem to almost sorta kinda get to something resembling the 'second level', but the only success of the play is because the QB manages to get by the member of the secondary who is somehow in the backfield because the WR's managed to not get a hand on anyone again...for about 15 yards. That guy went after the pitchman rather than the QB, and guessed wrong. Happens all the time. On that note, I find one blip of positive in this. One of the main problems has always been that WR's are attempting to block someone 20 yards away rather than someone right in front of them. They let someone go right by them because there is someone deeper to block rather than dealing with the more imminent threat. Again, no pulling linemen. The cut blocking is something though I guess.
3rd play-play action pass. QB can scramble because the psychic defense knows a pass play is called. The box should be loaded with 8 or so defenders worried about the option. That's why Georgia Tech threw so many long TD passes last year...if the QB could manage to hit someone. The QB scrambled because suddenly there was no one for 15 yards as all 7 dropped back to defend the pass. Those guys in the secondary who were ready to gang tackle the QB the instant he finished faking to the FB are suddenly defending every receiver perfectly. Surely EA can find a better way to make the CPU defense competent than having them defend each play perfectly.
4th play-the blocking back to the short side of the field is in perfect position to help the RG and RT cut off the defensive line and the linebacker from getting outside, giving the RB at least a little bit of open space...then he suddenly, cuts back into the middle of the line?? allowing the two defensive linemen to magically get off their blocks and hit the runner. It's easy to wonder if the CPU knew the LB on the outside of the defensive line as the secondary didn't rush in this time.
5th play-no pulling linemen kills the offensive play. The DE commits to the FB?????? Why? That's for the DT's and one of the LB's. The 2 DT's, who by the way are too fast, know that the FB doesn't get the ball before they should, and they get off the block and get outside. The DE who for no good reason gets sucked in committing to the FB gets blocked, allowing the QB to get outside, but if the DT's still magically know that the FB didn't get the ball (I suspect like the CPU secondary, they respond to buttons), then this is pointless. A pulling linemen would have gotten out in front of them to block, allowing the play to actually go somewhere.
I won't get into Brad's comment about the stadium rocking even though it sounds exactly the same.
Same reason the zone read type stuff doesn't work-someone is supposed to remain unblocked...someone who has no chance of being fast enough to stop the play is purposely left unblocked by a pulling linemen so that he can block someone who does have a shot at stopping it.
Until EA understands that leaving people purposely unblocked is necessary, the triple option will never look realistic. On Heisman, the CPU knows what play you call. This is overcome-able if the linemen will pull and leave someone unblocked. Lots of teams know Georgia Tech is going to run an option play, and save for an occasional counter or fake, ultimately a defender is forced to pick one or the other. That didn't happen there except for one play. If the WR's will let people run by to block someone who is further downfield, then outside rushing will have very few breakaways.
The triple option is still terrible, maybe it's only 2% less terrible though.
First play-neither WR even makes it look like they considered maybe possibly thinking about becoming interested in attempting to block anyone. Not that this is anything new. No linemen pulled. The fullback I'm going to hope was attempting to sell this is a play to the far side of the field as the reason he didn't block anyone. Linemen didn't pull though, nor did they leave any defensive linemen unblocked. Then that FB might have had someone to block if that linemen pulled with the play. Then there only would have been 4 defenders in the QB's face instantly before he even had the option of pitching.
2nd play. Mainly repeat, but slightly better. One linemen did seem to almost sorta kinda get to something resembling the 'second level', but the only success of the play is because the QB manages to get by the member of the secondary who is somehow in the backfield because the WR's managed to not get a hand on anyone again...for about 15 yards. That guy went after the pitchman rather than the QB, and guessed wrong. Happens all the time. On that note, I find one blip of positive in this. One of the main problems has always been that WR's are attempting to block someone 20 yards away rather than someone right in front of them. They let someone go right by them because there is someone deeper to block rather than dealing with the more imminent threat. Again, no pulling linemen. The cut blocking is something though I guess.
3rd play-play action pass. QB can scramble because the psychic defense knows a pass play is called. The box should be loaded with 8 or so defenders worried about the option. That's why Georgia Tech threw so many long TD passes last year...if the QB could manage to hit someone. The QB scrambled because suddenly there was no one for 15 yards as all 7 dropped back to defend the pass. Those guys in the secondary who were ready to gang tackle the QB the instant he finished faking to the FB are suddenly defending every receiver perfectly. Surely EA can find a better way to make the CPU defense competent than having them defend each play perfectly.
4th play-the blocking back to the short side of the field is in perfect position to help the RG and RT cut off the defensive line and the linebacker from getting outside, giving the RB at least a little bit of open space...then he suddenly, cuts back into the middle of the line?? allowing the two defensive linemen to magically get off their blocks and hit the runner. It's easy to wonder if the CPU knew the LB on the outside of the defensive line as the secondary didn't rush in this time.
5th play-no pulling linemen kills the offensive play. The DE commits to the FB?????? Why? That's for the DT's and one of the LB's. The 2 DT's, who by the way are too fast, know that the FB doesn't get the ball before they should, and they get off the block and get outside. The DE who for no good reason gets sucked in committing to the FB gets blocked, allowing the QB to get outside, but if the DT's still magically know that the FB didn't get the ball (I suspect like the CPU secondary, they respond to buttons), then this is pointless. A pulling linemen would have gotten out in front of them to block, allowing the play to actually go somewhere.
I won't get into Brad's comment about the stadium rocking even though it sounds exactly the same.
Same reason the zone read type stuff doesn't work-someone is supposed to remain unblocked...someone who has no chance of being fast enough to stop the play is purposely left unblocked by a pulling linemen so that he can block someone who does have a shot at stopping it.
Until EA understands that leaving people purposely unblocked is necessary, the triple option will never look realistic. On Heisman, the CPU knows what play you call. This is overcome-able if the linemen will pull and leave someone unblocked. Lots of teams know Georgia Tech is going to run an option play, and save for an occasional counter or fake, ultimately a defender is forced to pick one or the other. That didn't happen there except for one play. If the WR's will let people run by to block someone who is further downfield, then outside rushing will have very few breakaways.
The triple option is still terrible, maybe it's only 2% less terrible though.
# 35
Playmakers @ 06/08/12 01:20 AM
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These are samples of long runs by the CPU RB on Default 50 in the last 2 versions of NCAA Football (12 & 11). You just have to study the sliders and figure out what settings open up their running game without having to make their RB's High powered.
NCAA Football 12 Video
TD: 42yd rush by HB #26
http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/81403364
NCAA Football 12 Video
TD: 30yd rush by W. Payton
http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/87405974
NCAA Football 12 Vid
23 yard rush by W. Payton
http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/87406014
NCAA Football 11 Video
TD: 56yd rush by T. Canidate
http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/95110015
In fact just based off the DEMO I'd say getting them to run the ball in NCAA 13 will only require a few minor tweaks and they will again remain at default 50 for me.
I don't have any videos to show, but I've been playing with the slider set to 60 (AA) for the past few months and it seems like the backs try to avoid defenders more, don't miss holes as much, look for cutbacks, and use moves much more frequently rather than just running into them and hoping for the break tackle animation.
Those runs you provided are great, especially the 30 yd TD run. On the first and third run the back just runs straight and does not even attempt to make the defender miss, it works out though since he breaks the tackles, but what running back aims for defenders once he's in open field?
I may be over reacting a bit due to the poor running from the georgia tech fb on the dive and hb after receiving the pitch, but you are correct it's not as if the CPU is totally clueless running the ball. It's not so much the ability of the ball carrier that needs tuning moreso the vision/decision making.
Those runs you provided are great, especially the 30 yd TD run. On the first and third run the back just runs straight and does not even attempt to make the defender miss, it works out though since he breaks the tackles, but what running back aims for defenders once he's in open field?
I may be over reacting a bit due to the poor running from the georgia tech fb on the dive and hb after receiving the pitch, but you are correct it's not as if the CPU is totally clueless running the ball. It's not so much the ability of the ball carrier that needs tuning moreso the vision/decision making.
# 37
Playmakers @ 06/08/12 02:05 AM
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I'm going to go on record and say what i saw in that video was actually encouraging to me.
There are a few things in that video that some of you haven't taken into account...
1). The CPU QB doesn't seem brain dead this year which is the biggest reason why I think the CPU will run the Option a bit better this year.
2). If you haven't utilized the Human Defensive Gameplans in years past this year will be huge because there are two options that I believe will go a long way towards assisting the CPU Option Attack.
A). Set the Defensive Line to Conservative
B). Set the Option Defense to Conservative
I won't get into explaining these two gameplay sliders in full but they will potentially make a huge IMPACT this year when you face CPU Option Teams.
3). Human Run D Slider is most likely at default 50 + the Tackle Slider is at 50. Those two sliders combined together is strong enough out of the Box to actually compete with a Human controlled RB.
So you can't honestly expect the CPU RB to do much damage on his own vs those settings.
4). The Video also has the default Run Block slider being utilized....I don't need to go into detail as to how this will also help the CPU.
5). I've been very critical of EA's Option Attack in years past and I've had to spend countless hours simply editing ratings just to make it respectable for the CPU.
The difference is this year the only ratings i plan on tweaking are my own classic rosters for my gameply enjoyment. I think the Sliders alone this year will actually give enough boost to the CPU Option Teams that ratings edits aren't needed unless we are just wanting to fix rosters outside of what EA releases with the Default base rosters.
I understand what some of you are refering to in the video in regards to the negative plays.
But i believe if you think outside of the BOX for a second that video actually displays more postives than I've ever seen with the CPU Option Attack. If EA doesn't break the sliders like they did last year i don't see how some of guys can't be salivating at the mouth to tweak the gameplay and finally get the results we've been looking for since this game came to the 360/PS3 consoles.
As of right now I'm going to change my stance and say EA deserves a big kudos for giving us the foundation now to make the CPU offense a threat in both the air and on the ground. It's not going to happen out of the BOX but if you guys spend about 1-2 days this year on the sliders it looks like pretty much anyone can get the gameplay they desire IMO.
The only thing at this point that i don't like about the game which is out of my control is the Boring announcing and some of the faded out uniforms I've seen in the game.
I'm in no way giving them (EA) a free pass because I still feel as if this is NCAA 12.5 with a patch that should have been released last year after our complaints. But this years game has the best potential gameplay we've seen since last gen (NCAA 06).
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If the option isn't a viable weapon by the CPU then it simply (for me) isn't even worth a look when it gets used.
This is college football.....
# 39
bonannogiovanni @ 06/08/12 10:51 AM
I'd like to ask Christian if the option to finally introduce a playable broadcast cam was even remotely considered.
# 40
Jadakiss88 @ 06/08/12 01:09 PM
WR blocking has been the HUGEST issue for running on offense it's hit and miss and has been that way for a while. However, I have found it very apparent that the CPU logic is set that every first down play is a run no matter if it is or not. This game is pretty much NCAA 12.5 but nevertheless still fun as hell. The first GT Option play looked like this CPU logic hasn't changed much and it will bite on the run on every first down first play drive...IMO
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