Madden NFL 25 News Post

Madden NFL 25 Trailer - Run Free

08:18 PM - April 24, 2013 by Steve_OS

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Game: Madden NFL 25Reader Score: 5/10 - Vote Now
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# 101 cthurt @ 04/26/13 11:42 AM

At this point i wanna believe and be excited about the things that ive read in these articles but that horrible video has me thinking the worse for this game at this point, words can only go so far but ill wait for actual game footage to make my decision on this years Madden.

# 102 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	NO, there is good left in this team, I know there is, lol. Seriously though, I challenge this, no way M25 will move like this on a completely new engine, seemingly Frostbite, with Kolbe heading it up. I have no idea how "gimmicky" the game may be if still effected by the same powers that be for XP progression and fun/realism balance but I would put money on the players will actually move like real people on the new consoles. Perhaps we could place some kind of sig wager, where the loser has to place some predetermined statement in their sig for a set period of time. Something like "If [insert winner] states it, I believe it and that does it, always bet on [inset winner]", lol.

Now what in the wild wild west makes you think that next gen Madden will run on Frostbite lol??????

This is Tiburon we are talking about. The original walled garden. Better animation and physics tech has always existed, even within EA, and yet it was never leveraged. There is not a single game that I can think of that is developed or produced by any other team or publisher that has worse animations than Madden, and yet here we sit, more than a decade later, and they are still soldiering on, much like Sinatra, content to do it their way.

I'm sorry. I don't see it happening. Next gen Madden will be redesigned most likely, but it will be redesigned, by and large, through what ever tech collaborations that Tiburon and EA Canada come up with. Will it look better? Damned if I know. Many think that due to the sheer power of the new consoles that next gen Madden will be better by osmosis. I wouldn't bet on that. As gimped as the PS3 and 360 look by today's standards of technological evolution, there are still games for both systems that animate EXPONENTIALLY better than Madden, using the same hardware. The aforementioned Battlefield comes to mind. Uncharted, The Last of Us, and Tomb Raider, animate absolutely gorgeously as well, so I wouldn't look to the PS4 and... NextBox to be the boon to Madden that many think it will be. Powerful system is one thing. Knowing how to harness that power...

All I can think of after seeing that ridiculous RG3 animation at the end of the trailer is R Kelly. "Move your body like snake Ma. Like that?" Pitiful.

You might as well change your sig now.

# 103 cgalligan @ 04/26/13 12:41 PM

Are we playing NFL Street? Or is this a game that is trying to replicate and simulate "NFL FOOTBALL" ???

My favorite part of the video, is the part when Calvin Johnson leaps over a defender and then, immediately after, he somehow still has the momentum, strength and speed to totally TRUCK another defender...

I'm fine with him leaping a guy, but, there is no way he'd have enough momentum left to be able to truck a defender coming in for a clean shot at him... Even if it is Calvin Johnson, that seems a bit ridiculous and very "Madden" of them...

# 104 Eman5805 @ 04/26/13 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch46647


	Look at how much smoother that gameplay is!! That is really something... I loved Madden on PS2. I just wish EA would come out and tell us what the he** went wrong with the gameplay and animation engine this generation. (Along with many other aspects)

That should be EA's goal next go around. Make it more like the PS2/Xbox generation. Players looked like they had weight to their running.

# 105 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805


	That should be EA's goal next go around. Make it more like the PS2/Xbox generation. Players looked like they had weight to their running.

Please, no. Just no...

# 106 roadman @ 04/26/13 12:53 PM

LT:

Welcome back to your annual pilgrimage.lol

I take it you didn't like precision passing last year?

Actually, didn't appreciate 13 much and didn't like the trailers put out so far, but I'm cautiously optimistic with the articles I've read so far.

We'll see.

# 107 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	LT: Welcome back to your annual pilgrimage.lol I take it you didn't like precision passing last year? Actually, didn't appreciate 13 much and didn't like the trailers put out so far, but I'm cautiously optimistic with the articles I've read so far. We'll see.

What's up Road.

Yeah nothing gets my Tiburon ire up more than draft time and the inevitable explosion of Madden info lol.

Did I like Precision Passing? I didn't dislike it. I liked the intent. It isn't what I thought Madden needed to really improve, but I could say that for any addition that's been made over the last decade or so. The main problem I had was that for all the new trajectories and for all the added precision, the AI was still the ultimate judge of the outcome of a play, and no matter what I did with the sticks or the button presses, balls would still be defended or intercepted by defenders trailing receivers, due to balls, some freaking how, not being thrown to lead receivers enough. Essentially, the AI still made happen what ever it wanted to have happen. In short, it was more duct tape.

I liked 13 when I first put it in, but after a short while, the infatuation wore off. I've had the game since launch and still have it to this day, but I've played only 3 Play Now games, and didn't even finish one of them, never played a single online game, and didn't even spend a ton of time in Practice Mode, which is very atypical for me.

It was an OK game, but when things that happened 10 years ago ago are still happening, and having to be subjected to those God awful animations, I just couldn't put myself through it. $60 be damned.

Without a complete overhaul of the animation tech, I don't think there is anything that they can do to get me excited about this game, on any gen. No matter what uber realistic sim feature they might possibly add, the immersion will be instantly broken as soon as the players start moving.

The player models don't do immersion any favors either.

# 108 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	http://www.operationsports.com/forum...nch-title.html As well change your sig now you might.[In Yoda voice]

"Pretty thin, Riggs. Pretty thin." (Danny Glover voice lol)

Saying that there are other EA titles that are using Frostbite does not mean Madden will.

I can guarantee one of two things:

1- Next gen Madden will not be powered by Frostbite if Tiburon is developing it or

2- If by some miracle it is powered by Frostbite, it will not resemble all the good-ities and nice-ities that you have come to associate with Frostbite, based on Battlefield.

There are a billion games that use Unreal and they are NOT all created equal. I can assure you, it is possible to make a bad game using Frostbite. Many Battlefield 2 vets would tell you that one already has lol.

# 109 SageInfinite @ 04/26/13 01:42 PM

You guys have got me torn because I agree with both of you,

. I really just want to be addicted to a football game again, it's been so long.

# 110 Jistic @ 04/26/13 01:42 PM

I'd like to remind everybody to vote with their dollars.

# 111 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Well unless you think that guy from EA is just flat out lying about EA focusing on only 10-15 games for new consoles, the announcement that they are developing 15 games with Frostbite and question that Madden is one of those 15 games slated for new consoles, that "miracle" is going to happen. Again, I agree that a new engine does not equate to a solid football game but I think it does equate to not carrying over the unrealistic movement of the animations from this console gen. Not when you have a EA Football GM from EA Canada, a CD from MLB The Show and tones of shared tech from more fluid movement games like BF and FIFA. We shall see shortly.

They said 10 -15 games in development for Next gen using Frostbite. They didn't say launch titles and they didn't say Madden. They also said most of those are new IPs.

I like your optimism, but I don't see it happening. I hope you're right though, but most likely... I am lol.

Besides, they mentioned games like Mass Effect, and Dragon's Age, as well as other well known franchises that will be using Frostbite. Why wouldn't they say Madden? Are they holding it as some big trump card? Doubtful. Madden isn't the BMOC for EA anymore. Most likely they didn't mention because... you can finish this sentence lol.

# 112 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	To be fair this is exactly what he is quoted as stating, before even discussing the Frostbite engine. "Historical transitions have been bumpy for a few reasons. One reason has been that a lot of the companies had too many titles. We had way too many titles in the last transition, and the more titles you have, the more expensive it is to convert them from one generation to the next. " We're much more focused now. We've got a core group of ten-to-fifteen titles. We'll stage those in terms of the transition and manage those costs through that. Our goal is to keep the cost increase for R&D under $100 million. And some of that will be in this year, some of that in '14, and some in our fiscal year '15." Again, unless the huge investment Cam Weber, among others, have stated was put into EA Football for new consoles is simply not true and Madden is not in that "core group of ten-fifteen titles", that seems pretty clear. It's all good though because we should find out rather soon. Hopefully you are somewhere around here as soon as we do, right or wrong.

It is entirely possible that Madden isn't in that group he's talking about. Even if it is, not sure it makes a difference.

Plenty of other interactions that they have to worry about in MAdden aside from running that I don't see in Battlefield 3. Yes they run very well, but there isn't any need to cut. No need to block. No need to catch. No need to jostle. There are a plethora of things that go on in Football that do not go on in Battlefield, because in Battlefield all they need to do is run in a straight line, walk in a straight line, or crawl in a straight line, or skulk in a straight line. Who is handling all those other animations that aren't accounted for in a FPS? Tiburon? I'd attach a video of me falling out of my chair laughing, but that's most likely against TOS.

I don't think Madden will be on Frostbite on next gen. At least not in its 1st iteration. Maybe not ever. Could be it's a brand new day over at EA, but the EA Sports teams have never been the most willing to partake of the fruits of non EA Sports dev teams labors. Anything is possible though.

Even if they do, I still don't think that guarantees anything remotely eye pleasing or simulation-esque. IMO, they've done less with more, than any other dev team I've seen, on any game, in any genre. This goes back to the beginning of Madden and Live. Always 20 steps behind other games in the animation department, on the same hardware.

I'd be more optimistic if they said the game was being developed by another EA studio. Just the way I feel.

# 113 Smoke6 @ 04/26/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	You guys have got me torn because I agree with both of you, . I really just want to be addicted to a football game again, it's been so long.

You know what, its been bothering me for part of the day watching these vids of people who have went to this EA event. They all start off with "EA is focusing on Running, or the passing" etc, etc, but one thing that comes across my mind is how...

None of these features that they work on seperately "ever seem to mesh" with eachother! And what boggles my mind is the fact that this team of devs cant seem to work together on all aspects of this game in one cycle and thus leaving us with what we have and how we feel about the game now.

Its like having a fighting game and all they worked on is the gfx and levels, but they'll get to the fighting part later. Just doesnt make sense!

But I still have hope reserved for them on nex gen!

# 114 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	You make some good points but I think Madden running on Frostbite is a done deal and no way I can see Madden not being in that "core group" given the heavy investments publicly touted for EA football next-gen. In reference to a "new studio", I think that's essentially what they have done by bringing in new talent, instead of just promoting the same people from within. I don't know if you have any interest in NCAA Football but in an interview, Ben Haumiller the Producer for that game states, he's not working on the new consoles version at all, that's an entirely different team. So I imagine something similar happening with Madden on the new consoles, where Kolbe is heading up a different team. So while they may be the same core concepts in M25 for new consoles, that are in M25 on this gen, the tech, implementation and personnel could be different.

I almost hope that next gen Madden isn't on Frostbite. Not because I care about being wrong. I don't. I just shudder at the thought of what they come up with. Might have dire repercussions on DICE lol. I'm mostly kidding.

Seriously though, there are many aspects of an engine that can be used in game development. You don't have to use them all. You could see a Madden that is on Frostbite and swear that it's in name only. They could just leverage some aspects of their lighting, their shading, or destructibility (think torn up turf).

It seems like I'm being negative. Well... that's cause I am lol. It takes more than just using a great engine to make a great game. Using an existing engine (generally) guarantees that the costs for making a game are lower, because you don't have to develop one yourself, nor spend money on the R&D of said engine. It never guarantees a good product, unfortunately.

As far as this being a wholly new team, that may or may not be true. These people who they've brought on, like Kolbe though, they aren't the CEO's of the company. They don't own the company, they were interviewed, and they were hired. They were brought on. They have bosses. Now anything is possible, but if you were hiring someone, would you hire someone who was going to totally blow up your business and start from scratch, or would you hire someone, who shared your vision generally speaking, but had a FEW new ideas about how to do things better? I don't think Google is going to hire a creative director who says we should move away from search lol.

I'm just being realistic. Regardless of what Kolbe or any of those other guys did elsewhere, I guarantee that on some level they said to who ever hired them that "I like what you are doing here". If that is the case, is it really a new direction?

# 115 roadman @ 04/26/13 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	I'm just being realistic. Regardless of what Kolbe or any of those other guys did elsewhere, I guarantee that on some level they said to who ever hired them that "I like what you are doing here". If that is the case, is it really a new direction?

My educated guess is that that line might have took place, but the candidate might have said something along the lines, I feel I could contribute more to this opportunity.

We don't know how the conversation took place.

Need to do a better job of debriefing candidates, LT. lol

Anyway, some things on paper look decent, ie pursuit angles, fatigue and separating the AP's from Dujuan Harris's of the world.

# 116 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	We see the same facts so differently and that's what makes discussions so interesting. My POV on the bold is, yes you bring in someone to blow it up when what was originally being done wasn't working well enough. All those articles seem to be making the underline point of doing things differently next-gen and I think Kolbe, Frostbite, etc, are examples of that. Again, they could have just promoted from within for the status quo, like they did in the past but instead they went out to get new blood. With Kolbe and Cam I see it more as EA going after them to turn EA football into the type of game they have done best, not them seeking out EA Tiburon to be a part of the status quo.

What isn't working though?

Is Madden not selling 5mil copies a year? Are people not spending money on MUT? Are celebs and athletes not still giving EA free publicity?

You didn't bold the part about Google hiring someone who wanted to move away from search though lol.

I'm not saying that they want to keep the status quo. I think they do want to do things differently. There is a limit though to what any rational businessman or woman would do though.

Change is great if it saves you money. Change is great if it makes you money. Change is not great if it costs you money on the expectation that it will make you money at some point... probably.

You think that they are developing all these games on Frostbite because they love gamers and want what's best for them? Um, no. They want to leverage Frostbite, because it's a great engine, yes, but because it puts more games on the fast track for less investment. It also looks good on the literature to have an engine that is used by all your studios. Now we are Epic with Unreal. Now we're Square Enix with the Luminous Engine. Now we're Konami with the Fox Engine. We're big doings.

At the end of the day, those people were hired. I don't care if it was internally or externally. They have people that they answer to. And the people that they answer to have people that they answer to. So on and so forth. Under no circumstances do I believe that those people were hired by a company after going through an interview process talking about how everything they are doing is wrong and how they will change everything if they are hired, knowing that this will obviously cost more than changing a little.

Again, I'm sure that they have ideas about what they want to do differently, but they aren't stupid. On SOME LEVEL, they had to say that they agree with at least SOME of what is currently being done, or else they would never have been hired, nor would they have ever chosen to work there in the first place. It just doesn't make any sense. They went there because they think that they are already on to something and just need that last push.

The new hires want to implement change because they think they can make a killer product with some of their ideas added to the mix. The executives want to implement change, because they want to make game making more cost efficient and expedient, which will translate into profits. Unfortunately, none of that translates, necessarily, into a total rethinking of Madden. Odds are, it is just the opposite.

Reality bites.

# 117 Only1LT @ 04/26/13 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	My educated guess is that that line might have took place, but the candidate might have said something along the lines, I feel I could contribute more to this opportunity. We don't know how the conversation took place. Need to do a better job of debriefing candidates, LT. lol Anyway, some things on paper look decent, ie pursuit angles, fatigue and separating the AP's from Dujuan Harris's of the world.

No doubt that is what was said. I said as much myself. But that does not translate to lets blow this baby up and start from scratch, which is IMO, what needs to be done, and what will not be done.

# 118 roadman @ 04/26/13 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	No doubt that is what was said. I said as much myself. But that does not translate to lets blow this baby up and start from scratch, which is IMO, what needs to be done, and what will not be done.

Well, I'm sure they won't make the same mistakes in 06 making the transfer.

All eyes are upon them.

# 119 UMhester04 @ 04/26/13 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Please, no. Just no...

Why not? The running motion looked great and the locomotion was pretty realistic

# 120 mWolfe @ 04/26/13 09:12 PM

Well I for one was not impressed and after seeing the bit where Calvin Johnson defied all laws of physics with leap and power truck it is going to be another year of Madden on the PS2 and PC and NCAA on the PS2 as well as 2k4 and 2k5 on the PS2 although i do find Madden 04 and 08 very enjoyable on the PC thanks to mods that are out there.

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