Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[hoopsguy]

In regards to vote switches from Anxiety to Tyrith, we have seven hours before the deadline. I would advocate people vote who they think is guilty.

I don't know Anxiety is a wolf, although I think he is. But I have been wrong before this game and I'll probably be wrong again before the game is out. If Anxiety is lynched today and is shown as a human, I'll thank you guys for getting it right despite my cluelessness. And prepare for whatever fallout comes the following day because of it.

I don't know that Tyrith is a human, although I think it is considerably more likely than Anxiety based on re-reading Anxiety's earlier posts with his reveal in mind. If he is lynched and shown to be a human then I'll feel like I've finally contributed something to Team Wolf this game. Anxiety/Tyrith is not a zero-sum game, but I would be very surprised if both are humans. And moderately surprised if both are wolves.

[Lathum]

I'm not saying I disagree with hoops being the bodyguard, but I know that if I was the bodyguard I wouldn't out myself, what is the point? I would much rather wait untill

1. We get a conformation of a seer
2. I was in danger of being lynched

Once you out yourself as the bodyguard you are maybe giving yourself 2 days/nights to live which means unless hoops gets targeted soon in a night action I would be very suspiscous of him. It seems possible to me he is trying to lull someone into revealing a key role.

[Alan T]

I'm not saying I disagree with hoops being the bodyguard, but I know that if I was the bodyguard I wouldn't out myself, what is the point? I would much rather wait untill

1. We get a conformation of a seer
2. I was in danger of being lynched

Once you out yourself as the bodyguard you are maybe giving yourself 2 days/nights to live which means unless hoops gets targeted soon in a night action I would be very suspiscous of him. It seems possible to me he is trying to lull someone into revealing a key role.


Didn't you during the Blade vs Hoops day come out pretty strongly and say you believed both Hoops and Blade to be on our side? This post seems to contradict that some. Did I misunderstand your point on that day and that was merely just a best guess on your part, and you are starting to change your opinion?

Not attacking here, just trying to clarify what I know of your point of view. I myself have slid hoops up and down a little since that day, so you might be feeling the same thing that I am today with his posts. But I guess my take on your post of Blade and Hoops was you felt stronger about Hoops than I did at the time.

[SackAttack]

I'm not sure what that would accomplish other than putting hoops into more danger. It would be 5-3-2 at that point, meaning 1 flip away from a tie between Anxiety and Hoops.

While I would be less caring if the vote went from Anxiety to Tyrith, I'm not sure I would want to lose hoops instead of the other two here. From what it sounds like there is a core group of 4-6 of us who feel strongly about both Anxiety and Tyrith right now. Not sure we want to split that voting group into half right now

Y'know, truthfully, you guys are far more focused than I am right now.

I'm still looking things over, and my vote is, as always, subject to change.

I've already made it manifest, both prior to taking the role and since, that I have two games to umpire tonight, beginning at 4:15 (meaning I'm leaving the house by probably no later than 3:30 PDT), and that my true involvement probably won't start until tomorrow. Given that, I wanted to make sure I at least have a vote cast, and I've given my reasoning for the vote as currently cast.

I need to look things over more carefully before I'd have a strong feeling either way on Anxiety or Tyrith, and I don't want to cast a vote for people facing a lynch if I haven't any confidence in that vote. If I guess wrong, it gets a wolf lynched, and that doesn't help us any.

Hoops, on the other hand, is a guy who's not facing any imminent threat (although I believe he bears close watching). I can get my suspicions out there, get a vote out there, and not have to worry about a hunch vote nuking anybody on my first day, before I'm really settled in. If events conspire such that I cannot get another vote in before my games tonight, at least there's something out there.

[Lathum]

what I meant was that if hoops was claiming to be the bodyguard and I really was the body guard I wouldn't contradict him at all. The reason being by him saying he is the bodyguard he puts a huge target on his back. I can't recall a WW game where the body guard hasn't been the target of a night attatck soon after his reveal.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I had just avoided being lynched on Day 2 by one vote that came in a minute before deadline. So I did feel that I was in danger of being lynched on Day 3 when mckerney turned up wolf.

Beyond that, I guess I don't necessarily view bodyguard as a super-critical role. I would rather have it on my side than not, but I can't see it being any better than the 3rd best good-guy role in this game (before factoring in any of the role reveals) behind seer and alpha wolf.

Finally, Day 3 started with some conversation about a conversion and questions about whether the bodyguard had protected. So the role reveal served to clarify positions on these topics as well. I certainly accept that other players might have gone about their business differently, but that's the logic behind my play.

In terms of still being around, I suspect that if we are not making headway on getting some humans pretty soon that I'll be sacrificed because I must be the puppet master rather than the dope being toyed with ... it doesn't make the theory right, but I understand it on some level.

[st.cronin]

The difference here is that the BEST kill for the wizards team is probably the pack leader. That's why I think both hoops and I are safe for now.

[Alan T]

what I meant was that if hoops was claiming to be the bodyguard and I really was the body guard I wouldn't contradict him at all. The reason being by him saying he is the bodyguard he puts a huge target on his back. I can't recall a WW game where the body guard hasn't been the target of a night attatck soon after his reveal.

Ok, I misunderstood your previous post. Gotcha

[Tyrith]

What about re-reading Anxiety's posts makes you think he's clear, hoops?

[Abe Sargent]

Here's my circle of trust:

Me.


That's not a circle, that's a dot :)


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

BTW, I'd be willing to switch my vote to someone if anyone could make a case for that person. All my intuitions have brought me is confusion.

-Anxiety

[Tyrith]

I would like to note that fozzie made it pretty clear that blade did have a brother type role out there, my reveal has been out there several days, and no one has made a move to contradict it. And the text of blade's death makes it so that the person can't already be dead, which isn't necessarily true for certain other role reveals.

And I also have to comment that Anxiety's role reveal has absolutely no specifics at all, meaning that if it were fake, it'd be impossible to contradict.

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, I'll lay out my thought process on Anxiety, along with some post numbers. A couple of them are pretty long, so I'll just do summaries there.

Came home yesterday afternoon to read Anxiety's reveal. Was trying to work through it, in terms of BS (thought so early) or real.

Post #1133, by me directed at Anxiety:
Did you submit trust lists to SirFozzie? I'm trying to understand how you could have intuition based on who you (or the group) trusts if there is not an established trust list?

Post #1167, by Anxiety, replying to my question:
No submissions. I assumed that SF read the thread, read who I either agreed with or said was clean, and went with that.

On the other hand, like I've said, it could have meant who the "pack" trusted, not who I did.

-Anxiety

Post #1168, Anxiety clarifying:
Dola - hit send befoe I typed my last bit. I started publishing trust lists for you guys in order to help out SF.

-Anxiety

Post #1169, my response:
So if you were publishing trust lists, then you had to have some kind of an inkling that your "ability" would work in this fashion?

Posts #1171-72 by Anxiety:
Only for days three and four.

For clarification, in other words, I only started posting trust lists for SF after I got the first comment about someone I or we trusted. I only starting posting these lists on Day three, with the cronin vote.


While Anxiety was composing these, I started going through all of his posts from Days 2 and 3, looking to see if there were published trust lists. So I had not seen that he indicated there was not one for Day 2 at that point. I thought I had caught a lie, at which point I was going to slam my vote on him and not look back. But after seeing his post on Night 3 (#886) it dovetailed exactly with what he said his info was from the Night 2 PM. And then his post early in Day 4 exactly coincides with his info on what he got in the Night 3 PM (Post #977). So if Anxiety was pulling a BS reveal, he had conceived it several days prior to using it. Not impossible, but the vagueness of the reveal and the very specific matching post content didn't match up in my head as a fake reveal.

If someone goes through the effort of making a fake role reveal, and planting evidence to support it, I think it would be something that is more believable than his role reveal was - the info revealed was pretty vague and didn't, in and of itself, enhance people's belief that he is a wolf.

Barkeep explicitly asks him if he left hints about having a role and he says no. But they are out there plain as day to find ... is this the work of someone running a fake role reveal or someone who is just not as dialed into their every post in a werewolf game? I choose to believe the latter, even if my research started with the intention of burying him.


So there is my case for why I believe Anxiety - hope that helps.

[Tyrith]

There have to be at least three bad guys. Even if you believe I'm one, which I'm not, and you believe schmidty is one, that leaves a third. And if you believe Anxiety, that means one of the "trusted" players is bad. That could mean you, cronin, and to a lesser extent possibly saldana and barkeep. Who out of that group would you say is the bad guy?

[st.cronin]

There have to be at least three bad guys. Even if you believe I'm one, which I'm not, and you believe schmidty is one, that leaves a third. And if you believe Anxiety, that means one of the "trusted" players is bad. That could mean you, cronin, and to a lesser extent possibly saldana and barkeep. Who out of that group would you say is the bad guy?

You have left out Lathum and Sack.

[Tyrith]

Seems I did, point still stands.

[st.cronin]

lol

No it doesn't. Depending on how tightly you define the various trust lists, there are three bad guys, and between 4-7 people who haven't been cleared.

[Tyrith]

I want to start thinking outside of the anxiety/schmidty/me box that's been around for the last couple of days, because since I know I'm not a bad guy, it can't cover everyone, and anxiety's reveal, if believed, seems to back this up. The current path isn't going to get us all the way home, new ideas are needed.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, I don't have 100% belief in our "trusted list" - we don't understand what happens when Cronin scans the wizard, for example. We have a triumvirate emerging with Saldana/Barkeep/Coffee that is all cleared in some manner but only Barkeep is cleared by both Cronin and one of the triumvirate.

That said, with three bad guys out there I'm happy to rely on this list for now and target the people who are not yet aligned. If all of the bad guys have slithered into trust lists already then we are probably going to lose the game.

I'm willing to listen to alternate strategies for approaching the game - particularly since I'm on the record for not liking the current voteleader as a human - but expect discussion on the pros/cons of them and how you have reached your conclusions.

[hoopsguy]

Also, AlanT has not been cleared yet so throw him into the mix along with Lathum and Sack.

[Lathum]

lets just keep in mind there is no guarentee that there are still 3 baddies left. I think the focus needs to be on finding out who the wizard is.

[st.cronin]

I agree that it is somewhat likely that one of the trusted is probably bad. The most trusted players that are likely to be bad, by my analysis, are:

Hoopsguy
Cronin
Alan T
Lathum

I think, even if I get waxed tonight, there will be more information on those players tomorrow. For today, I don't think it makes any sense to put a vote on one.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, if you trust Anxiety's info, then there were three bad guys to start (Night 0 info). The only way we have gotten a human is if there was a cunning role - not impossible but I don't think we can count on this.

[Schmidty]

I'm waiting until near the deadline to see if my vote will even matter.

[Coffee Warlord]

Uh. You're most likely to be bad?

I agree that it is somewhat likely that one of the trusted is probably bad. The most trusted players that are likely to be bad, by my analysis, are:

Hoopsguy
Cronin
Alan T
Lathum


Edited to add the quote.

[SackAttack]

Also, AlanT has not been cleared yet so throw him into the mix along with Lathum and Sack.

What exactly justifies me being in the mix? The play of my predecessor, who was a) in transit to Chicago, and b) lacked stable and reliable internet access (which was the whole reason he dropped out, AFAIR)?

Seems like a shaky basis for suspicion to me.

[Schmidty]

Uh. You're most likely to be bad?

Come again?

[SackAttack]

I agree that it is somewhat likely that one of the trusted is probably bad. The most trusted players that are likely to be bad, by my analysis, are:

Hoopsguy
Cronin
Alan T
Lathum

I think, even if I get waxed tonight, there will be more information on those players tomorrow. For today, I don't think it makes any sense to put a vote on one.

Yeah, what CW said. Cronin, why ARE you in your own list of suspects? :D

[Lathum]

Lathum, if you trust Anxiety's info, then there were three bad guys to start (Night 0 info). The only way we have gotten a human is if there was a cunning role - not impossible but I don't think we can count on this.
I realize that, but with there being no information given upon death how do we know if we killed a wizard, normal wolf, or wolf with a special ability?

[Coffee Warlord]

Come again?

Look again. Added the post I was really referring to there.

[Tyrith]

lets just keep in mind there is no guarentee that there are still 3 baddies left. I think the focus needs to be on finding out who the wizard is.

How do you figure?

[Schmidty]

What exactly justifies me being in the mix? The play of my predecessor, who was a) in transit to Chicago, and b) lacked stable and reliable internet access (which was the whole reason he dropped out, AFAIR)?

Seems like a shaky basis for suspicion to me.

But that's how hoops works. Take a small shred of info and then eloquently turn it into Watergate. :)

[Lathum]

How do you figure?
post 1279

[st.cronin]

I included myself just because I was trying to think for the group. I was pointing out where we should be looking. Obviously, I'm not going to vote for myself.

[st.cronin]

dola

Should be looking EVENTUALLY. I don't think it's a good idea to look there today, necessarily.

[hoopsguy]

Sack, there was almost nothing to either help or hurt in assessing Ardent for exactly the reasons you mentioned. That slots him (now you) lower on trust lists than people who have gained trust in the first 3+ days of the game.

By the way, thanks for objecting to me when I add AlanT to Cronin's list, but not when Cronin brings your name explicitly a couple of posts earlier. Definitely leaves me with a warm fuzzy about you coming into the game, along with your insta-vote for me because I "could be dangerous".

[Schmidty]

Sack, there was almost nothing to either help or hurt in assessing Ardent for exactly the reasons you mentioned. That slots him (now you) lower on trust lists than people who have gained trust in the first 3+ days of the game.

By the way, thanks for objecting to me when I add AlanT to Cronin's list, but not when Cronin brings your name explicitly a couple of posts earlier. Definitely leaves me with a warm fuzzy about you coming into the game, along with your insta-vote for me because I "could be dangerous".

Uh oh, hoopsguy's calm exterior is breaking........ ;)

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, at least you called my eloquent :) Beats several other adjectives I have heard ...

[SirFozzie]

Uh. You're most likely to be bad?



Edited to add the quote.

Coffee, you didn't know the ettiquette, but please don't edit posts in a WW thread, it's bad form (was used a couple times to reveal information and then quickly get edited out) Just dolapost :)

[Alan T]

Fozzie, do you still work at EMC? (Didnt you at some point?) Or am I drunk?

[Coffee Warlord]

Coffee, you didn't know the ettiquette, but please don't edit posts in a WW thread, it's bad form (was used a couple times to reveal information and then quickly get edited out) Just dolapost :)

I usually do. In the above case, I figured it was harmless enough to not matter.

Or perhaps I just wanted to goad you into posting something. :)

[SirFozzie]

Fozzie, do you still work at EMC? (Didnt you at some point?) Or am I drunk?

Yup, still do, my first full year of working here, but approaching three years with the company now (was a contractor previously)

However, you still may be drunk.

[SackAttack]

Sack, there was almost nothing to either help or hurt in assessing Ardent for exactly the reasons you mentioned. That slots him (now you) lower on trust lists than people who have gained trust in the first 3+ days of the game.

By the way, thanks for objecting to me when I add AlanT to Cronin's list, but not when Cronin brings your name explicitly a couple of posts earlier. Definitely leaves me with a warm fuzzy about you coming into the game, along with your insta-vote for me because I "could be dangerous".

Your post was right there in plain view when I entered the thread.

Doesn't mean I don't object to the same thing in cronin's post. Besides, he's got issues of his own right now. Hard to take it seriously when he's flagging himself as a suspect, typo or not. :)

[SirFozzie]

Or perhaps I just wanted to goad you into posting something. :)

Like your role, perhaps?

Double edged sword, compadre ;)

[Coffee Warlord]

Like your role, perhaps?

Double edged sword, compadre ;)

BRING IT, BITCH! :D

[SirFozzie]

BRING IT, BITCH! :D

Oh goody. (makes note on piece of paper just in case CW files an unfair grievance charge with the WW Fairness Council.. "He told me to bring it, so I brung it")

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh goody. (makes note on piece of paper just in case CW files an unfair grievance charge with the WW Fairness Council.. "He told me to bring it, so I brung it")

I have yaks and I'm not afraid to use them, you know.

(Hmm. Have we sidetracked the thread enough, ya think?)

[SirFozzie]

I have yaks and I'm not afraid to use them, you know.

(Hmm. Have we sidetracked the thread enough, ya think?)

Hmm.. maybe a bit more.

YAHTZEE!

[Alan T]

Yup, still do, my first full year of working here, but approaching three years with the company now (was a contractor previously)

However, you still may be drunk.


Which office are you in? I moved a little bit back (since I'm almost never in Mass and didnt feel like driving 2 hours to work each way when I was.) There are alot of EMC offices near where I live now.

[SackAttack]

I gotta leave early to get some Gatorades since I'm working the plate and have to wear the damn pads today.

Be back probably around, um. Crap, I may run past 9 pm today.

Hurray for the playoffs, I guess.

[SirFozzie]

Which office are you in? I moved a little bit back (since I'm almost never in Mass and didnt feel like driving 2 hours to work each way when I was.) There are alot of EMC offices near where I live now.

Over in Hopkinton (The 495 exit right by the Pike), at one of the main buildings, 171 S Street)

[Abe Sargent]

My Internet was down for a couple of hours there. Blasted college campuses. Normally a T1 but with a high noise ratio and a lowered chance of reliability than an alternative Internet source.

I still don't have a good idea who to vote for here fellas. I think my vote is eitehr on hoops or saldana from much earlier in our four day long Day4, but I can't remember. I'll almost assurdly move it though, just as soon as someone sells me on who to vote for.

I'm going to grab dinner now, I should be back in an hour to ninety minutes.


-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

Well it seems like we've learned little this day except that Schmidty is suspicious of hoops and hoops thinks Anxiety is innocent.

[Alan T]

Over in Hopkinton (The 495 exit right by the Pike), at one of the main buildings, 171 S Street)

Yeah, thats 5 minutes from my new place. on my way to work. I moved to Milford, just next to the Hopkinton line. I'll have to invite you over for lunch or beers some time to get you drunk so you'll tell me who to go after on lynch votes.

Ok anyways, enough Masstalk sidetracking. back to today's lynch.

[Blade6119]

The difference here is that the BEST kill for the wizards team is probably the pack leader. That's why I think both hoops and I are safe for now.
Thats what i thought last night :D

[st.cronin]

Well it seems like we've learned little this day except that Schmidty is suspicious of hoops and hoops thinks Anxiety is innocent.

Yeah, it's been an unremarkable weekend/day. What I realized today (monday) is that even if Anxiety is lynched, and shown to be bad, that doesn't tell us much, either.

[Abe Sargent]

My date was late in arriving, and I am just off now folks. I should be back around 7:30-8:30 EST or so.

-Anxiety

[hoopsguy]

Here is what I show for votes (don't think there were any changes in last couple of hours):

Anxiety - Cronin (922), Alan T (998), Tyrith (1002), Barkeep (1081), Coffee (1085), Lathum (1207)
Hoops - Saldana (1022), Anxiety (1029), Sack (1246)
Tyrith - Hoopsguy (1236)

No vote: Schmidty

[saldana]

cronin, again, i am sure i have missed it at some other point, but what exactly is it that makes you believe hoops is good?

[saldana]

My date was late in arriving, and I am just off now folks. I should be back around 7:30-8:30 EST or so.

-Anxiety

i thought tuesday was date night?

[st.cronin]

I will probably not be around at deadline, since I have grillmaster duties. Somebody get me an Anchor Steam.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, if possible I would like to see if you and Barkeep can establish that Coffee Warlord is sharing your role through whatever "code" you guys think makes sense. Right now he is claiming to be a shared role with you guys, but I have not seen that trust going the other way as of yet.

[st.cronin]

cronin, again, i am sure i have missed it at some other point, but what exactly is it that makes you believe hoops is good?

I sniffed him. He didn't smell like a henchman. He might be the wizard, but I think that's a long shot.

[SirFozzie]

Here is what I show for votes (don't think there were any changes in last couple of hours):

Anxiety - Cronin (922), Alan T (998), Tyrith (1002), Barkeep (1081), Coffee (1085), Lathum (1207)
Hoops - Saldana (1022), Anxiety (1029), Sack (1246)
Tyrith - Hoopsguy (1236)

No vote: Schmidty

Thanks, Hoops. makes tabulating votes easier (especially since I'm still stuck at work)

I'll still verify, but it gives me a starting point :)

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith - do you trust Cronin? If so, how much do you trust his list? You wanted to look at alternate theories earlier, but I haven't heard you suggest anything besides that we need alternate theories.

If you want to go down that path, I'm your huckleberry.

[saldana]

I sniffed him. He didn't smell like a henchman. He might be the wizard, but I think that's a long shot.
ok

unvote hoopsguy
vote anxiety(my #2 suspect, but since i have believed cronin since his reveal, its hard to argue with him)

as far as confirming CW, i will have to go back and see where it is he shows knowledge of what BK and are were talking about.

[st.cronin]

ok

unvote hoopsguy
vote anxiety(my #2 suspect, but since i have believed cronin since his reveal, its hard to argue with him)

as far as confirming CW, i will have to go back and see where it is he shows knowledge of what BK and are were talking about.

That is actually very important.

[Poli]

I'm only here for a brief minute as a non-partisan.

What's the vote count look like?

[Alan T]

Looks like Anxiety is under the knife today. Right now its uhh 7-2-2 I think off the top of my head. With 1 vote outstanding

[Tyrith]

I don't think that it's completely out of the realm of possibility that cronin is bad. If the bad guys got role information on death, which doesn't come off as completely unreasonable, or if they have some way to track the seer, then faking it now seems perfectly reasonable. In fact, this may have been dismissed too quickly, because it seems like cronin's role is really big compared to some of the others. It is something worth investigating.

Part of me just thinks that we've been led by the nose this entire game by someone that we don't know about yet. Since I'm good, the anxiety/me/schmidty group doesn't provide all the answers. Ardent/sack is a possibility, but if that were the case, even in his diminshed available time ardent probably would have killed hoops on day 2, unless both of them are bad. If cronin is good, the only other options would be saldana and lathum for henchmen. It doesn't seem totally unreasonable either that someone in the BK/CW/SD (come on, gotta keep up the initials) group is a tag-along. So, I guess right now I'm kind of like this.

Somewhat trust: Barkeep, Coffee Warlord
Unsure: alan, saldana, lathum, sack
Distrust: anxiety, schmidty (largely because of group consensus)
Mostly trust but chance we're really screwed: cronin, hoops

[Tyrith]

Current vote:

Anxiety - 7: cronin (922), alan (998), tyrith (1002), barkeep (1081), CW (1085), lathum (1207), saldana (1316)
Hoops - 2: anxiety (1029), sack (1246)
Tyrith - 1: hoops (1236)

No vote: schmidty

[Poli]

Did someone take my spot?

[saldana]

That is actually very important.


coffee says his role description has the same phrasing that i intimated my own had, and that he picked up on barkeep and my own exchange, but he never actually acknowledges what it is, and we have no way of confirming it

check posts 986 and 1026 to see what you think for yourselves, but alarm bells started ringing in my head

[Alan T]

Did someone take my spot?


Yeah sackattack did.

[saldana]

Did someone take my spot?
coffee warlord is in for you

[saldana]

coffee warlord is in for you
make that sack attack

[SirFozzie]

Coffee's replacing Dubb, Sack Attack's replacing Ardent.

I think.

[Alan T]

coffee says his role description has the same phrasing that i intimated my own had, and that he picked up on barkeep and my own exchange, but he never actually acknowledges what it is, and we have no way of confirming it

check posts 986 and 1026 to see what you think for yourselves, but alarm bells started ringing in my head

Didnt Cronin also say he sniffed him out to be good (or at least not a henchmen, dunno about wizard role)? I had to have at least some reason to have moved him up from my neutral list to my little trust list besides that reveal of his.

[st.cronin]

coffee says his role description has the same phrasing that i intimated my own had, and that he picked up on barkeep and my own exchange, but he never actually acknowledges what it is, and we have no way of confirming it

check posts 986 and 1026 to see what you think for yourselves, but alarm bells started ringing in my head

Should we ask CW to do a reveal?

[saldana]

Didnt Cronin also say he sniffed him out to be good (or at least not a henchmen, dunno about wizard role)? I had to have at least some reason to have moved him up from my neutral list to my little trust list besides that reveal of his.

i think so, i was just about to ask him...Cronin, did you sniff CW?

even if he did, that doesnt mean he isnt the wizard

[Barkeep49]

Saldana, if possible I would like to see if you and Barkeep can establish that Coffee Warlord is sharing your role through whatever "code" you guys think makes sense. Right now he is claiming to be a shared role with you guys, but I have not seen that trust going the other way as of yet.
I'm game. So CW come play our game with us :)

[Barkeep49]

i think so, i was just about to ask him...Cronin, did you sniff CW?

even if he did, that doesnt mean he isnt the wizard
He has sniffed CW. But I think establishing whether he shares our role or not has utility.

[Poli]

Coffee's replacing Dubb, Sack Attack's replacing Ardent.

I think.

Thanks, Sack. I appreciate it.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin sniffed me, Blade, Barkeep, and Warlord (I think in that order).

[st.cronin]

i think so, i was just about to ask him...Cronin, did you sniff CW?

even if he did, that doesnt mean he isnt the wizard

Yes, exactly.

I have cleared:

Hoopsguy
Coffee Warlord
Barkeep
Blade (RIP)

I went for hoopsguy the first night, more or less a random selection. Second night I think was Blade. Barkeep was being more quiet than I'm used to, so he was the next night, and then Coffee because, replacing dubb, he didn't really have any voting history.

It is possible one of three surviving cleared players is the wizard.

[Poli]

Good luck, gang. I'm out for the night.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah the only reason CW got in on our action was his own claim and cronin including him with us. But he hasn't done anything to suggest he's Tony Mandarich.

[Barkeep49]

Yes, exactly.

I have cleared:

Hoopsguy
Coffee Warlord
Barkeep
Blade (RIP)

I went for hoopsguy the first night, more or less a random selection. Second night I think was Blade. Barkeep was being more quiet than I'm used to, so he was the next night, and then Coffee because, replacing dubb, he didn't really have any voting history.

It is possible one of three surviving cleared players is the wizard.
Jeez. I was quiet last game. I was simply BUSY this game.

[SirFozzie]

Well it seems like we've learned little this day except that Schmidty is suspicious of hoops and hoops thinks Anxiety is innocent.

And that Foz has Yahtzee! Don't forget that :D

[Barkeep49]

My apologies. How could I forget the YAHTZEE!!!!!!!!

Someone upthread said we don't learn much if Anxiety is killed and is a human. I think that if this is CW (Conventional Wisdom that is) then it is wrong. I think a fair amount IS learned from finding out either way if Anxiety is a baddie. However, I see no advantage to stating what these things are ahead of the lynch, so I will post what I think we learn post lynch and pre my death.

[st.cronin]

My apologies. How could I forget the YAHTZEE!!!!!!!!

Someone upthread said we don't learn much if Anxiety is killed and is a human. I think that if this is CW (Conventional Wisdom that is) then it is wrong. I think a fair amount IS learned from finding out either way if Anxiety is a baddie. However, I see no advantage to stating what these things are ahead of the lynch, so I will post what I think we learn post lynch and pre my death.

Looking forward to it, and hoping very much that Anxiety is human.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I think all but three of us are rooting pretty hard for Anxiety to be human. Having failed to persuasively plea his case (which I argued harder than he did - I hate that) I'm now left with really hoping I've been dumb for the last 24 hours.

[Lathum]

I think it is interesting that St. Cronin "sniffed" blade the same night he was attatcked and protected.

[st.cronin]

I think it is interesting that St. Cronin "sniffed" blade the same night he was attatcked and protected.

Actually, I think it was the night before. Night 0, I sniffed hoopsguy. Night 1, Blade - that was the night Qwik was attacked. Night 2 blade was attacked and protected.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, that doesn't match up (I don't think). Here is how I think it went down:

Night 0: sniffs me
Night 1: sniffs Blade, Qwikshot killed
Night 2: sniffs Barkeep, Blade's late night adventures
Night 3: sniffs Warlord, Blade killed

[Tyrith]

If Anxiety is lynched and is human we learn that we aren't completely idiotic, which is a little to me! :)

[Schmidty]

I don't fully trust hoops, but at this point, I don't have any proof to not believe his bodyguard claims.

I hate joining a bandwagon late, and when the results are pretty clear; however, I don't see any point in not voting Anxiety. I'm not even remotely convinced that he's bad, but:

Vote Anxiety

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, sorry that I missed Post #1320 earlier.

I would be stunned if all of Anxiety/Schmidty/you were human. The game is rarely that easy - you don't normally line up three opponents at a time on Day 4 after whiffing the first three days.

I also agree, for the most part, on the AE analysis. A mitigating factor there is that he may have thought it would draw less attention in later days if he was the deciding vote going for mckerney. Who knows if that is right or wrong, but he certainly has not drawn too much heat for this vote up to this point. Or he could have figured (well, with the help of his team if he really didn't have time) that mckerney might have a more valuable role than bodyguard, so why not take their shot? I think there are arguments that can be drawn that don't give AE the benefit of the doubt for his Day 2 vote but truthfully I have extended it to him.

If there is another seer out there, I'm sure they have some questions about Cronin's expanded role. But if such a person is out there they are keeping very quiet up to this point. I would love to have a way to validate Cronin's role, but I don't see a way to get that information up to this point.

AlanT, Barkeep, Coffee, and Saldana have all posted on some level about their roles aligning with Cronin's description - none of them agreeing at first, but growing to accept Cronin's expanded posts on the matter. They can't all be lying and it would seem like a really ballsy move for Cronin to then tack on "seer" powers.

What do you make of the "traitor to the pack" info in Blade's PM? You had mentioned that you were not involved with his description of the Night 2 events, but I don't recall if you had thoughts on the use of the word traitor.

[Tyrith]

I don't know about blade's night two pile. My best guess is that the pack leader had a once-per-game ability to save one his pack members and decided it wasn't nearly worth it to talk about it. I can't even think of anything else that makes a lot of sense. The traitor bit was probably thrown in there to give us the relevant information that he isn't a human.

[Alan T]

1 hour left roughly and this long weekend is ending rather anti-climatic.

Any last hour thoughts?

[Barkeep49]

I don't fully trust hoops, but at this point, I don't have any proof to not believe his bodyguard claims.

I hate joining a bandwagon late, and when the results are pretty clear; however, I don't see any point in not voting Anxiety. I'm not even remotely convinced that he's bad, but:

Vote Anxiety
Then this vote is crap. Vote for who you want. There's no reason to vote for somebody you think is innocent. None here. So vote who you damn well think is guilty.

[hoopsguy]

The pack alpha is the role I don't have a good feel for at all, but I'm not sure that I want to speculate at all about it - any information released on this is more valuable for the humans than it is for us. I just worry about casting votes on this guy.

I'm going to be really bummed if the alpha was mckerney or tanglewood.

[Blade6119]

Any last hour thoughts?
I love olive garden salad and bread..like LOVE

[Barkeep49]

I love olive garden salad and bread..like LOVE
Not sure if anyone told you this but I am trying very hard to not be outposted by a dead guy. I have quite a few posts to go to catch up to you so if you would be so kind as to stop doing things like telling us how awesome the OG is for breadsticks, because really those things are like carbocrack, it would go a long way to helping me :D. Thanks :)

[Abe Sargent]

i thought tuesday was date night?


I do have an active social life :) Tuesday is guaranteed date night, but if you only go out with your girlfriend once a week they quickly stop becoming a girlfriend. Just another frendly tip from your neighborhood Abe.


Just got back. Let me get caught up.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

The pack alpha is the role I don't have a good feel for at all, but I'm not sure that I want to speculate at all about it - any information released on this is more valuable for the humans than it is for us. I just worry about casting votes on this guy.

I'm going to be really bummed if the alpha was mckerney or tanglewood.


My guess is that we would know if we had.

-Anxiety

[Tyrith]

I think we would have been told if the pack leader was dead now. Nothing else from me till after the vote.

[Abe Sargent]

Yep, I think all but three of us are rooting pretty hard for Anxiety to be human. Having failed to persuasively plea his case (which I argued harder than he did - I hate that) I'm now left with really hoping I've been dumb for the last 24 hours.


I wouldn't know how. So I just say it and move on.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Well, it looks inevitable. Here are some of my final thoughts, and then I'm loading up UO and playing for a bit.

I don;t think hoops is bad, and I reread the attacks against him. Additioanlly, he's one of the few who beleives me, and I think it would be disrespectful to both vote for a guy I don;t really feel is an antagonist and a guy with my back.

Unvote Hoopsguy
Vote Tyrith

I'm rolling against a guy who came out swinging all of a sudden yesterday from nowhere. That seems odd to me for a guy who claims newness, like me, and hadn't done so before.

I'm obviously not a very good player. I hope to be someday. I'm sure that, over time, I'll learn the right words to say. Since I'm not that good, my loss is nothing special. At least, by lynching me, you'll be able to use the intuitions I revealed and maybe will be able to better use them than me.

I'll check back in later.


-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

Anxiety I don't think your as poor of a player as you think.

[st.cronin]

Unvote Anxiety
Vote Tyrith

Probably won't change things, but you never know.

[hoopsguy]

If Anxiety is revealed as a wolf, my compliments to the humans for stomping on us the first four days.

If the vote stands up the way that it is, what do you think are the chances that the antagonists ended up splitting their votes (versus all being on Anxiety)? This is one of those cases where they may actually end up drawing more attention by being on someone besides the runaway leader.

[Schmidty]

Then this vote is crap. Vote for who you want. There's no reason to vote for somebody you think is innocent. None here. So vote who you damn well think is guilty.

Like I said, I don't know if he's innocent. I don't have any idea who is, so that vote's just as good as any other that I could make.

[Lathum]

my bad about the night blade was killed, I forgot about night 0

[Barkeep49]

So Anxiety is still at 6 right?

[Barkeep49]

Like I said, I don't know if he's innocent. I don't have any idea who is, so that vote's just as good as any other that I could make.
I apologize. I misread it. I thought you said you thought he was innocent.

[hoopsguy]

Anxiety, I've had fun playing with you this game, in a weird, semi-confused sort of way up until last night.

And you are a serious jag if you do end up being human, as I invested a lot of time trying to defend you :mad::D

[Barkeep49]

If Anxiety is revealed as a wolf, my compliments to the humans for stomping on us the first four days.

If the vote stands up the way that it is, what do you think are the chances that the antagonists ended up splitting their votes (versus all being on Anxiety)? This is one of those cases where they may actually end up drawing more attention by being on someone besides the runaway leader.
I want a doctor to inspect this man to see if he strained himself patting himself on the back :)

[Barkeep49]

Anxiety, I've had fun playing with you this game, in a weird, semi-confused sort of way up until last night.

And you are a serious jag if you do end up being human, as I invested a lot of time trying to defend you :mad::D
What is a jag?

[hoopsguy]

Here is what I show for votes:

Anxiety - Alan T (998), Tyrith (1002), Barkeep (1081), Coffee (1085), Lathum (1207), Saldana (1316), Schmidty (1347)

Hoops - Sack (1246)

Tyrith - Hoopsguy (1236), Anxiety (1359), Cronin (1361)

[hoopsguy]

jag = jagoff = rat bastard

I guess that is a fun part of werewolf - trying to figure out if I'm messing with you with posts like that. But from where I sit right now it is a little frustrating ... and yes, I know I have brought it on myself based on previous games.

[SirFozzie]

I count the votes as hoopsguy does (damnit hoops, you couldn't have done that 10 minutes ago and saved me typing it up on my sheet? :D) 7-3-1.

[hoopsguy]

Foz, just ask :) Have the votes sitting in Notepad for easy cut/paste and updates when someone flip-flops late.

[saldana]

Unvote Anxiety
Vote Tyrith

Probably won't change things, but you never know.


this is bizarre, imo, you were on about anxiety for quite some time, and now all of the sudden you switched off....i think those of us that have backed you up since your reveal deserve a bit of an explanation here.

[st.cronin]

this is bizarre, imo, you were on about anxiety for quite some time, and now all of the sudden you switched off....i think those of us that have backed you up since your reveal deserve a bit of an explanation here.

Easy, I think they both stink. Plus I'm fairly sure about hoops, and while I don't entirely agree with his analysis, I think it deserves consideration.

[saldana]

dola, you voted for anxiety on FRIDAY, and it was the second day in a row you voted for him...what possibly could have changed that made your switch logical>

[saldana]

Easy, I think they both stink. Plus I'm fairly sure about hoops, and while I don't entirely agree with his analysis, I think it deserves consideration.
meaning you think they are both bad guys or you think they are both bad voting choices?

[st.cronin]

meaning you think they are both bad guys or you think they are both bad voting choices?

Meaning I think at least one is a bad guy, and possibly both. They are suspects #1 and #1a in my mind right now.

[Barkeep49]

Seems like a Blade play. No criticism at all in that statement (and no sarcasm in that statment).

[saldana]

just bizarre, especially in the perspective that it was two posts after anxiety's vote for tyrith

[Barkeep49]

I don't think it's bizarre. I think he's setting himself up to take credit no matter how this goes down.

[Abe Sargent]

Well, its 10:01 by my clock. Good luck all! Catch ya next game ;)

-Anxiety

[SirFozzie]

Deadline.

What the hell, let's take another week off.



No? You want it now?



You can't handle it now.

Ok. next post I promise.


Would I lie?

[saldana]

I don't think it's bizarre. I think he's setting himself up to take credit no matter how this goes down.
or to be able to say he didnt vote for another wolf if anxiety comes up good.

[hoopsguy]

Yes.

[SirFozzie]

1.Anxiety - Tyrith (1)
2.Barkeep49 - Anxiety (1)
3.Qwikshot - Blasted Night 1
4. AlanT - Anxiety (2)
5. Mckerney - Torn Apart Day 2
6. Saldana - Anxiety (3)
7. Lathum - Anxiety (4)
8. st cronin - Tyrith (2)
9. path12 - Torn Apart Day 3
10. SackAttack - Hoopsguy (1)
11 Tyrith - Anxiety (5)
12.Schmidty - Anxiety (6)
13. Coffee Warlord - Anxiety (7)
14.Hoopsguy - -Tyrith (3)
15.tanglewood - Torn Apart Day 1
16.Blade6119 - Blasted Night 3

As the votes are tallied, Anxiety looks pleadingly at the image of the wizard.. and speaks.. IN A HUMAN TONGUE! "But.... But Boss.. you said we couldn't get in any trouble.."

The wizard snarls loudly. "Shut up you buffoon! Just because we have to sacrifice you doesn't mean you have to give us all away!"

The wizard waves his hands and while you want to wait to see if Anxiety will give up any more secrets, truth be told, you need very little urging to attack him. He fights poorly, and within seconds, is dying, blood pooling in the dark night air.

As Anxiety shudders his last breath, his body shimmers, and fur disappears, revealing skin, great rents ripped into it by your teeth and claws. A wave of palpable blackness rolls from his body, and settles over all of you. One trips and nearly knocks over another wolf who turns to nip at the clumsy interloper and bites the wrong target.. and it looks to devolve into a massive fight... but a bellowed command from the wizard is enough to temporarily stop you.

"You fools.. you've taken your Fate out of your own hands. Now with his death, I can't control the rules! Oh well. It will be fun tommorrow, all you fierce wolves hiding like rabbits in your little warren! It will be fun to see whose vote will doom one of the remaining wolves. Just remember, little wolves, you have won the battle.. but you may not know how to kill who you suspect tommorrow.. while I will have no such compunction about killing folks tonight! Till Tommorrow.... MWAAHAHHAHAHAHA!"

We are in Night 4. Actions due by 9 AM

[Tyrith]

Oh God. But I think third man in on Anxiety ought to buy me some credit now :P

[Schmidty]

Nice!!!!!

I am so smart!!!!! :D

[saldana]

well props to us for finally whacking a human. there is a lot in that narrative that needs some serious examination.

[hoopsguy]

Good job, guys. I officially suck at werewolf. And for one night I'm OK with that fact.

[st.cronin]

whoot

[Lathum]

well I think that was good, I guess we will find out what foz has up his sleeve tomorrow.

[st.cronin]

well props to us for finally whacking a human. there is a lot in that narrative that needs some serious examination.

yes

more tomorrow, but #1 suspect for me now is LATHUM.

[hoopsguy]

You fools.. you've taken your Fate out of your own hands. Now with his death, I can't control the rules!
Changes in tie-breaker coming up?

[saldana]

yes

more tomorrow, but #1 suspect for me now is LATHUM.

5 minutes ago, your number 1 and 1a were anxiety and tyrith....where the helll did lathum come from?

[Tyrith]

I think he realized that I'm probably not a bad guy, seeing that I was on anxiety since Friday as part of the early dogpile.

[Lathum]

yes

more tomorrow, but #1 suspect for me now is LATHUM.
explain to me how that makes sense. I voted for anxiety 2 days in a row including the second one to vote for him day 3. I also cleared blade as an innocent long before his night killing.

[Lathum]

dola- Since you claim to have seer abilities then scan me tonight.

[SirFozzie]

BTW, while I'm not going to spill the beans on the new rules just yet, permit me this evil gloat. Remember when I said that I was coming up with new twists that had NEVER been done before in a WW game? This is one of them.

[Tyrith]

I suspect cronin doesn't expect to be alive tomorrow morning.

[Lathum]

I suspect cronin doesn't expect to be alive tomorrow morning.
well making statements like that won't help him.

[hoopsguy]

Always reassuring when the moderator posts ahead of time that he is messing with people.

This from the man who gave us a traitor role that had the ability to conduct full disclosure in his last game ...

[SirFozzie]

Always reassuring when the moderator posts ahead of time that he is messing with people.

This from the man who gave us a traitor role that had the ability to conduct full disclosure in his last game ...

Oh you say that like it's a bad thing!

*giggles evilly as he makes his first change*

[hoopsguy]

If people have strong thoughts on who I should guard, and feel like helping me in a game of chicken with the wizard, I'm taking suggestions.

[Lathum]

If people have strong thoughts on who I should guard, and feel like helping me in a game of chicken with the wizard, I'm taking suggestions.
I would like you to protect cronin so he can scan me.

[Tyrith]

I'd like you to do the opposite of whatever we say.

[Lathum]

If people have strong thoughts on who I should guard, and feel like helping me in a game of chicken with the wizard, I'm taking suggestions.
chicken?

[Alan T]

chicken?


ie: he means like the scene with the smart italian guy from the Perfect bride.

[hoopsguy]

Chicken - two cars approaching each other at high speeds. Who swerves first?

Or, for a longer explanation - hxxp://www.heretical.com/pound/chicken.html

[hoopsguy]

Alan - your butchering of the Princess Bride is painful to read. And that "smart italian guy" is Vizzini. The whole speech has already been rehashed in other WW games, but it is priceless and always applicable to these games.


Were we in a day phase right now, I might just have to throw a vote on you. Perfect bride - pfffft.

[Alan T]

Sorry!

[Lathum]

I know what chicken is

[Barkeep49]

I really want to be "Oh *snap* he's changing the rules on us" but I can't work up any excitement. It seems like we know so little about the rules the fact that they'd be changed? Yeah sort of meaningless. Not complaining, just stating.

Especially because we nailed a wolf, EASILY. While chronologically I was in the middle, I was an early supporter of this action. I am happy to see him go and am proud to say I never wavered in my conviction.

Now as to what this vote tells us? That we have a leigitmate circle of trust. I expect that the members of our little circle will now be picked off. But so far we have to believe that 90% of the remaining information out there is good. And that is a HUGE plus for us. I think pretty clearly we look for the remaining henceman among Schmidty and Sack, primarily, with Lathum and Tyrith behind them. Finding the wizard though is much harder.

[Barkeep49]

Protecting cronin and then you are the top two priorities, hoops. I think saldana and myself are expendable. One of us should be around to varify CW tomorrow which is what's important. But cronin would be priority 1, with another player, who I do not name, 1a, in my mind, followed by yourself at 2.

[Barkeep49]

My 1a person is the person who I believe to be the pack leader, btw.

[st.cronin]

Just briefly to explain my logic, I think it unlikely that TWO badguys would do fake reveals. Tyrith is, obviously, still uncleared. But I had Tyrith and Anxiety as mostly an either/or proposition.

More on Lathum later. Also, the game is about to get totally crazy. The rules for voting HAVE changed - but I won't know the new rules until 1 hour before deadline. I don't know if anybody else will know sooner. I don't have any idea what role CW/BK/Saldana supposedly have.

[Barkeep49]

Oh and Anxiety if you PM me, I would be happy to give you my AIM name and to talk stategy with you, especially if I do get killed. I really don't think you're a bad player at all.

[Barkeep49]

It would be nice if we could clear CW tonight. So CW if you could post something which saldana and I could verify as part of the code, though different from the one we have already going, that is VERY important. I think people should look highly suspiciously at CW if he has failed to do this by the end of d5.

[Barkeep49]

With that I go to bed.

[Blade6119]

I can give you mine. I know i talk strategy with other players, and since im already dead id be happy to talk right now with ya anxiety.

[Tyrith]

Cronin, do you think we should even bother doing normal voting tomorrow, or would we better off waiting if possible?

[Barkeep49]

Hey dead guy! You're one upping me AGAIN! :D

[Blade6119]

Hey dead guy! You're one upping me AGAIN! :D
IM DEAD!! I have to take what i can get! Be happy your alive, and let me do what i may maiz

[Blade6119]

:)

[SirFozzie]

Now two-upping him is just cruel, Blade ;) (or is that three upping him?)

[st.cronin]

Cronin, do you think we should even bother doing normal voting tomorrow, or would we better off waiting if possible?

I'm planning to wait til I understand the rules. I'm interested to see what Saldana et al. have to say about it.

[Tyrith]

And this man was my brother, sigh :P

[Barkeep49]

IM DEAD!! I have to take what i can get! Be happy your alive, and let me do what i may maiz
This was a very clever post. Kudos to you. I think that it's time to implement your quiet stategy though :).

[Lathum]

More on Lathum later. Also, the game is about to get totally crazy. The rules for voting HAVE changed - but I won't know the new rules until 1 hour before deadline. I don't know if anybody else will know sooner. I don't have any idea what role CW/BK/Saldana supposedly have.
I can't wait for this.

[Barkeep49]

I'm planning to wait til I understand the rules. I'm interested to see what Saldana et al. have to say about it.
Ok I'm only out of bed because the TV show I'm watching did something funny with music and I thought it was iTUnes malfunctioning so I got up to look at it, but found out it was the TV show. Anyhow if the rules really have changed and we only find out 1 hour before lynch that sort of rules out my participating tomorrow in any meaningful way as I will either

A)Be dead
B)Be at a little league baseball game

[saldana]

I'm planning to wait til I understand the rules. I'm interested to see what Saldana et al. have to say about it.

i already know what my anser to this is, but i would like to see what CW thinks first.

[hoopsguy]

What did you really expect out of his quiet strategy? :)

[st.cronin]

I strongly suspect that there will be some way for the rules to be communicated even if I die tonight. I don't know if Saldana, BK, CW have something to do with that or not.

[Barkeep49]

Well saldana and I do. CW?

[Lathum]

well I certainly hope St. Cronin returns with his theory on me before the night phase is over in case one of us isn't alive.

[Coffee Warlord]

It would be nice if we could clear CW tonight. So CW if you could post something which saldana and I could verify as part of the code, though different from the one we have already going, that is VERY important. I think people should look highly suspiciously at CW if he has failed to do this by the end of d5.

I've been holding off on saying anything till it was late enough to where no bad guy would pile on and try and worm his way in.

I don't have MUCH to tell. But what keyed me into trusting Saldana, and by association, you, was his mentioning (to paraphrase) that his votes could be the difference maker.

As can mine. I don't have any super duper powers that I know of, but my votes apparently may really matter. The fact that he used that line was why I immediately trusted him.

Not much earth shattering stuff there. But it's all I've got.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dola.

And I haven't the foggiest fricken clue what it may mean for tomorrow, assuming I'm not whacked tonight.

[st.cronin]

After looking over my role, I am planning on getting my vote in as early as possible tomorrow morning (assuming I am alive).

[Alan T]

After looking over my role, I am planning on getting my vote in as early as possible tomorrow morning (assuming I am alive).

If you wernt already on my fully trusted list, you are pretty close with this comment. I don't really want to talk much about this tonight though. I'll speak more about it in the morning.

[Tyrith]

CW's clarification seems to be lacking in specifics. I'm not really happy with it.

[Lathum]

After looking over my role, I am planning on getting my vote in as early as possible tomorrow morning (assuming I am alive).
I'm curious to know how you went from basicly saying that you have to wait for the last hour to vote to saying you need to vote ASAP?

[st.cronin]

I'm curious to know how you went from basicly saying that you have to wait for the last hour to vote to saying you need to vote ASAP?

I won't know the rules til quite late, but it's possible that early votes will be weighted more heavily than later votes.

[Tyrith]

Well, here's to hoping I don't die tonight because of my stupid brother. I won't be around till 5 CST or so tomorrow, so let's hope my vote is still worth something.

[Barkeep49]

CW check out post 1082. How could that have cleared saldana? Alternatively, use your own version.

[Qwikshot]

What did you really expect out of his quiet strategy? :)

Blade has a quiet strategy?

[dubb93]

Well I'm here and see Coffee has taken over my spot. Good thing, I've been without the internet for what seems like ages. It just freakin went out and I've been dealing with technical support ever since. Finally I just gave up and switched providers which was another delay in getting it hooked up. In fact, it just came on right freakin NOW.

With that said, good luck everyone, I"m going to have fun reading along with the game, wish I could have played along.

[SirFozzie]

There is another flash of light during the night, but come morning, all of you are still here. Another victory for the wolves... you think.

[SirFozzie]

Oh yes. Mandatory:

Votes Are due by 10 PM EDT :)

[Barkeep49]

Woohoo! I'm not dead.

Ok one thought on how this new system has to work: Perhaps saldana and I, with CW as a possible third, all have to agree? Or 2 out of 3?

[Alan T]

Cool. I think? Hoops did you protect someone successfully last night, or are we looking at a conversion of some kind?

Ok, some information that I have but wanted to wait till night phase was over.

My role is that I am a lucky Wolf. When I first got this role, I assumed that there might be something important to Fozzie stating it as "A lucky wolf" vs "the lucky wolf" as in there could be more than one. However the more I thought about it, that did not make much sense.

Basically what I was told, is growing up, I have always managed to be lucky. Things have always seemed to go my way. However this is indeed no power or special ability, just if I found myself in a pinch, I could be assured that my luck would prevail.

What this meant was that I am a tiebreaker, on votes I am involved in, my luck would hold out.

The problem however is that i was told some forces in the universe are more powerful than "luck", and there could be a case where the laws as we know it no longer make any sense. In those cases I could not count on my luck to pull through.

It seems like we are currently in a Fozzie mini-game of some sort. From what I was told, its exactly like St.cronin said. The vote has turned from order into chaos. There are as far as I am aware 6 different ways the vote might be determined, which I am guessing St.Cronin is the piece to my jigsaw puzzle to figure out how that plays out. What I do know though is no longer does a majority vote matter, but instead it can all be "weighed" out based on the location, duration or type of vote whatever that means. Instead of Quantity mattering, now Quality of vote matters (once again no clue what that means.)

So, to play out whats been going through my head, St.Cronin's post last night sinched things for me, when he mentioned when he wanted to post rather than for who. That seems to me to be whats important now. I think as of now, I pretty close to fully trust St.Cronin. you can also see why it gave me pause earlier on when he referred to the tie breaker in a way that it didnt exist or that it would change.. because I had info regarding the tiebreaker that I knew. Once he clarified himself on day 2 or 3 whenever that was, things felt a bit better for me about him.

So... I am guessing this day might be a fun one to see what happens.. I am hoping St.cronin can help us further with that as we go.

[Alan T]

Woohoo! I'm not dead.

Ok one thought on how this new system has to work: Perhaps saldana and I, with CW as a possible third, all have to agree? Or 2 out of 3?


Possible, that might be what it means by type of vote matters more than quantity.. however I am under the impression that things are far different from even worrying about how many vote for who. It could be much different

[Barkeep49]

Ok then. Sounds like an early vote matters. So for the time being

Vote Sack Attack

I know it's unfair. And unfortunate. But he's outside the circle and I have little reason to trust him.

[Barkeep49]

Possible, that might be what it means by type of vote matters more than quantity.. however I am under the impression that things are far different from even worrying about how many vote for who. It could be much different
Hmm. Interesting. Still see no reason not to vote early. Perhaps we can vote often?

Vote Sack Attack
Vote Schmidty

[SirFozzie]

Still one vote per person, Keep :)

[Barkeep49]

Naw. Voting often seems stupid. I'll stick with my top suspect.

Vote Sack Attack

[Alan T]

Doh, almost forgot part of my information. THe last part I almost neglected to mention was that Things can revert back to order from chaos with some special event. I don't know what that is however. My guess is maybe killing the wizard? or making him flee? If that happens then I get my "luck" restored and things revert to how they were.

[Barkeep49]

Still one vote per person, Keep :)
Love cross posts. So maybe if we all do really stupid things we can get Fozzie to tell us all the rules before 1 hour before lynch :D?

[Barkeep49]

Oh and for the record I have little trust in Alan. Don't quite buy his reveal at all.

[Alan T]

Ok then. Sounds like an early vote matters. So for the time being

Vote Sack Attack

I know it's unfair. And unfortunate. But he's outside the circle and I have little reason to trust him.


Well I dont know if an earlier vote weighs more than a late vote at all. maybe its the middle votes, or late votes or who knows. I am guessing this is a piece that Cronin can help us on based on what he told us earlier in the game as the first part of his role.

Just him mentioning "when" he was going to vote is what helped me feel he's on the same page as me.

[Coffee Warlord]

CW check out post 1082. How could that have cleared saldana? Alternatively, use your own version.

Okay, went back to that, and then dug through a zillion pages of werewolf trying to find the context for his post. And never did. Little help?

[Alan T]

Oh and for the record I have little trust in Alan. Don't quite buy his reveal at all.


Well based on what Cronin said last night, I have a hunch he knows something else he hasn't quite mentioned yet because he doesn't want to bad guys to find out. I left him a small little clue in my huge wall of text that should mean something at least to him. I feel pretty good that he should be able to pick up on it if I am right about this and feel better about me.

Right now I think Cronin probably is the most likely person who can support me here, I'm ok with that I think for now. I feel pretty confident that he is on our side, and likewise the people he has vouched for can be trusted to some extent (ie: he just doesnt know if they are the wizard or not)


Either way, I think today will be quite a different day for us.. should be fun

[Coffee Warlord]

Love to see who Cronin sniffed out last night as well.

ALSO. No night kill again? Either Hoops did his job, or we have a convert in our midst. Hoops?

[Alan T]

I'm holding off on making decisions on who to vote for or such, until we find a little more information about what happened last night. I'm interested in hearing from Hoops and Cronin since they are the two known roles we have, and both are still around today.

Also any other thoughts about what happened last night? Maybe while the Wizard is controlling the laws that govern the vote, he can't kill anyone?

[Coffee Warlord]

CW's clarification seems to be lacking in specifics. I'm not really happy with it.

And while I'm post whoring, I'll respond to this. The specifics are light because there are no specifics. I'm a standard issue non-role wolf with a small twist (the voting thing), which I assume has now come into play. And no, like the others, I have zero idea WHAT the twist is, as there was no mention of such details in my original role description.

[hoopsguy]

At work, will post more when I get a chance.

I successfully protected Cronin last night. Don't see any harm in posting who it was, since the antagonists know who they attacked.

I had protected Lathum on Night 3 - can share that one now since my back-to-back restriction is not in effect for him anymore.

[Barkeep49]

Good job hoops.

[Barkeep49]

So if CW can't detect the code in saldana's post 1082 that makes me far more leery of him then when I drove to work this morning.

[Barkeep49]

So my morning schedule has changed. I likely will be out in a few moments and then back mid-afternoon before leaving for the day. Will try and pop in early afternoon, but no promises.

[Coffee Warlord]

So if CW can't detect the code in saldana's post 1082 that makes me far more leery of him then when I drove to work this morning.

1) I SUCK at such things.

2) That post referred to an original post by you. That I can't find. He could be saying I am Darth Vader for all it means to me without the original instructions.

[Barkeep49]

I don't know how many posts per page you do, but I do 50. So that means on page 21 there is a post which is numbered, in the upper right hand corner, 1082. Find the post, it's by saldana. It's what clinched his trust from me. If you are like us then hopefully you can find the code and either explain it, since I don't think we need more mystery about it at this point, or follow up with your own similar, though hopefully distinct, use of the code.

[stevew]

This is interesting.

[stevew]

Dola, catching up on 3 days of missed reading, I don't know what to think anymore.

[Alan T]

Dola, catching up on 3 days of missed reading, I don't know what to think anymore.
Thats pretty close to what I felt 3 days ago too!

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't know how many posts per page you do, but I do 50. So that means on page 21 there is a post which is numbered, in the upper right hand corner, 1082. Find the post, it's by saldana. It's what clinched his trust from me. If you are like us then hopefully you can find the code and either explain it, since I don't think we need more mystery about it at this point, or follow up with your own similar, though hopefully distinct, use of the code.

Jesus fucking christ, man. Read the post you're referring to. Note the first line from Saldana where he informs you he looked at what you instructed him to do.

What part of I Cannot Find Any Such Instructions, And Thusly That Post Means Absolutely Nothing To Me are you not getting?

Want another post number? Real simple. #899. That's my role to a T. End of story.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dola. And it's entirely possible I'm being a complete and utter imbecile here. So be it. But, in this case, I'm totally missing the boat.

[hoopsguy]

If AlanT's reveal is to trusted, then I'm concerned about the fact that Cronin caught wind of bad luck around me when he sniffed me earlier in the game. Of course, the only thing I can find in my role description that would link to that is that the last alpha I protected was killed - don't know if A = B there or not.

But if we are playing under some new rules (many people think this) and I'm bad luck (Cronin thinks this) then I'm thinking I may want to vote for someone besides who I want to see tested today. The "quality of my vote" may be poor.

[Alan T]

If AlanT's reveal is to trusted, then I'm concerned about the fact that Cronin caught wind of bad luck around me when he sniffed me earlier in the game. Of course, the only thing I can find in my role description that would link to that is that the last alpha I protected was killed - don't know if A = B there or not.

But if we are playing under some new rules (many people think this) and I'm bad luck (Cronin thinks this) then I'm thinking I may want to vote for someone besides who I want to see tested today. The "quality of my vote" may be poor.


We are playing under different rules. I can gurantuee this. I was told that majority rule no longer applies and because of that, there currently are no ties to break. This is only a temporary thing though, I am guessing till we do something else (maybe kill the wizard?) or I guess thinking about it more, possibly it only lasts x number of days. Not sure on those things.

[Coffee Warlord]

Of those who are left...

2.Barkeep49 - Very much trusted, even if I want to strangle him at the moment. :)
4. AlanT - The timing of his role reveal, on the heels of a failed reveal, makes me want to trust him for the moment.
6. Saldana - Absolutely trusted.
7. Lathum - Nada.
8. st cronin - Heavily trusted.
10. Sack Attack - Nada.
11 Tyrith - His attachment to Blade makes sense, though it's questionable.
12.Schmidty - Nada.
13. Coffee Warlord - Duh.
14.Hoopsguy - Trusted.

Lathum, Sack, and Schmidity. One of these three will likely get my vote today. Flipping back to look at votes the last couple of days now, so we'll see.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hmm. Looking back on last night, the first vote that got us a bad guy.

Schmidty and Lathum with late votes on Anxiety, once he's pretty much a sure thing kill. Sack throws in a meaningless vote.

I'll ignore the Sack vote for the time being. Between Schmidty and Lathum, I'm saying Schmidty right now. People have looked at him, accepted absolutely miniscule statements from him, and gone elsewhere. Personally, I think it's time he gets some spotlight.

Vote Schmidty

[stevew]

It's awful testy around here.

[stevew]

But now that I've read most of it I can see why.

[st.cronin]

I sniffed Sack Attack last night - he is not a henchman.

I have no direct knowledge at all about Lathum, but

VOTE LATHUM

[Qwikshot]

he he you said testy.

[saldana]

coffee, go to post 986. thats where the question to the post 1082 answer is.

barkeep, i agree with you 100% that i think you and I (and coffee if he is legit) have to vote the same way today, so i wish you had waited for me to vote, because i also have a feeling changing your vote will also have an effect. and now that coffee has also voted, that screws things up even more if my thoughts are right. I didnt want to post this idea last night because i didnt want either of us to become targets.

since you got up first, i will follow you, since i agree we have to be together.

vote sack attack

[hoopsguy]

Guys, if you are trusting Cronin then voting Sack Attack today is a losing play.

[Barkeep49]

How do you figure hoops?

[hoopsguy]

Dola - it is a fairly random play, as he is not a henchman. So you are voting on him being the wizard. There are players out there that are not vouched for in any way who could be either the wizard or a henchman - if there is not a compelling reason to vote Sack (that has been unstated up to this point) then I think going after people who represent and either/or possibility (either henchman or wizard) are higher probability plays.

[Alan T]

Guys, if you are trusting Cronin then voting Sack Attack today is a losing play.

I am guessing Saldana felt he needed to vote with Barkeep since Barkeep voted first. However Coffee is going against their group of three so to speak voting someone else. Barkeep's vote was before Cronin's reveal though, so not sure if Barkeep will want to change it or not now.

I really don't know who, how or when I should/will vote right now, I had kind of hoped Cronin would comment more on my posts and thoughts since alot of the holes I am missing I think he can fill in. I'm going to wait for now till he has had more time to look it over.

Right now my instincts (lacking any emperical data whatsoever) tell me that I'll likely go after Schmidty (where CW is currently), or go after Tyrith (still have not seen any proof of his link with Blade, and he is still around without anything happening to him). I trust Cronin, but I question why he sniffed Sackattack instead of Lathum last night? He said he was going to target Lathum today, but chose to sniff someone else?

Its good to know that about Sack, but I would have felt better voting Lathum with him if he had some information to go on.

Anyways, I think for me today its going to either be Tyrith or Schmidty barring something else popping up.

[hoopsguy]

Gah - don't think that read well.

If someone is voting for SackAttack based on info they have not shared yet then don't let me slow you down. But there is less chance of him being a bad guy than people who are partially vouched for because if you are to believe Cronin then the only way Sack = bad is if Sack = wizard.

[Coffee Warlord]

coffee, go to post 986. thats where the question to the post 1082 answer is.

Uh, 986 is a post by me. :)

If you mean Barkeep's post nubmered 985, then I'm going to just go downstairs and weep. Got the wrong guy if anyone thinks I can delve some sort of goofy cipher out of that. Though that post does quote the whole reason I trusted you to begin with.

[Barkeep49]

How did we know he's not a henchman? As I think earlier rather then later makes sense I will

Unvote Sack
Vote Schmidty

Though I must be missing something. Did cronin sniff him and I missed it?

[Coffee Warlord]

Though I must be missing something. Did cronin sniff him and I missed it?

Yeah, Cronin sniffed Sack Attack last night.

[Barkeep49]

Ok then. Well my vote's on schmidty now and hopefully saldana can get his there as well.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin: Do you have any reason to verify Alan's story?

[hoopsguy]

Early votes, as of Post #1494:

Sack Attack - Saldana (1484)
Schmidty - Coffee (1479), Barkeep (1491)
Lathum - Cronin (1482)

I'm holding off on my vote until we start to build some consensus on AlanT - if he is telling the truth about having a "lucky" role (which he has knowledge of) and Cronin is telling the truth about me having "bad luck" (which I do not have direct knowledge of), then I don't think I want to vote in line with you guys.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I would agree that the bad luck thing would suggest that you should go in a different direction, except that I thought luck had nothing to do with this any more, at least according to Alan. Which is why his tiebreaker is no longer a tiebreaker.

[st.cronin]

Ok, here's what I can say.

Hoops succesfully protected me last night. (I assume that means tonight I'm a goner. Sob.) I sniffed Sack Attack, he came up wolf. I voted for Lathum, but actually he is now in my innermost circle of trust. Essentially, my vote for him is a game of chicken with the wizard, who *I THINK* knows the voting rules for today. More on this tomorrow, if I live, or post game.

[Alan T]

Yeah I would agree that the bad luck thing would suggest that you should go in a different direction, except that I thought luck had nothing to do with this any more, at least according to Alan. Which is why his tiebreaker is no longer a tiebreaker.


That is correct, I was told while outside forces change the law as we know it, my luck can't help me now. This is not a permanent thing however, if we can do whatever task Fozzie has for us to revert the voting rules back to normal, then my tiebreaker once again matters.

[saldana]

coffee, the second quote in post 985 is the one i meant for you to look at.

barkeep, i like the schmidty vote much better, as i have voted for him earlier in the game.

unvote sack attack
vote schmidty

[Barkeep49]

I like chicken.

So I think cronin's reveal essentially confirms what I've suspect now for a couple days: Saldana and I (and possibly CW) have vanilla roles with no powers, hidden or otherwise.