Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[st.cronin]

I don't know if I can verify Alan T, since I don't understand what role he is supposed to have.

[Barkeep49]

coffee, the second quote in post 985 is the one i meant for you to look at.

barkeep, i like the schmidty vote much better, as i have voted for him earlier in the game.

unvote sack attack
vote schmidty
I apologize for not conferring with you before my vote.

[Coffee Warlord]

Ok, here's what I can say.

Hoops succesfully protected me last night. (I assume that means tonight I'm a goner. Sob.) I sniffed Sack Attack, he came up wolf. I voted for Lathum, but actually he is now in my innermost circle of trust. Essentially, my vote for him is a game of chicken with the wizard, who *I THINK* knows the voting rules for today. More on this tomorrow, if I live, or post game.

Dude. That just made my head explode. :)

You can't expand on this at all (or would it be a detriment to things if you do)?

[st.cronin]

This is going to be a strange day.

[st.cronin]

Dude. That just made my head explode. :)

You can't expand on this at all (or would it be a detriment to things if you do)?

I really can't. I'll just say that my trust list now looks like this:

Lathum
Hoopsguy
-------
Coffee
Barkeep
Sack Attack
-------
Saldana
Alan T
-------
everybody else

[Alan T]

Dude. That just made my head explode. :)

You can't expand on this at all (or would it be a detriment to things if you do)?



As best I can understand, he says he trusts Lathum completely, but is choosing to vote for him for unknown reasons...

So is this a thought that you vote for who you don't want to see lynched?

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, the 3 of us have voted for the same person.

I wonder if Schmidty will now implode or something.

[Alan T]

Well, the 3 of us have voted for the same person.

I wonder if Schmidty will now implode or something.


Thanks, I just had to fake coughing to hide my laughing to this post. My boss wanted to know if I was ok!

[Lathum]

Hmm. Looking back on last night, the first vote that got us a bad guy.

Schmidty and Lathum with late votes on Anxiety, once he's pretty much a sure thing kill. Sack throws in a meaningless vote.

I'll ignore the Sack vote for the time being. Between Schmidty and Lathum, I'm saying Schmidty right now. People have looked at him, accepted absolutely miniscule statements from him, and gone elsewhere. Personally, I think it's time he gets some spotlight.

Vote Schmidty
In response to my vote for anxiety I voted fourth for him which is a long way from piling onto a sure thing. I also voted second for him the day before, I think that patern should speak for itself.

[Coffee Warlord]

In response to my vote for anxiety I voted fourth for him which is a long way from piling onto a sure thing. I also voted second for him the day before, I think that patern should speak for itself.

Moot point anyway. I trust Cronin, he trusts you (though I think I would start bleeding from my ears if I heard the explanation why).

[st.cronin]

I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Lathum and hoopsguy are both on the side of good. Hopefully we have as many wolves around close to the deadline to push the vote the way it needs to go.

[Lathum]

OK, now I am confused. I am glad you trust me cronin and you should for a very good reason, but I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

[st.cronin]

Can somebody clarify what about Alan T I am supposed to be vouching for? The only thing I see is that he liked when I said early votes might be valuable - but I can't imagine how that would prove anything.

[Coffee Warlord]

I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Lathum and hoopsguy are both on the side of good. Hopefully we have as many wolves around close to the deadline to push the vote the way it needs to go.

Hmm.

[saldana]

I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that Lathum and hoopsguy are both on the side of good. Hopefully we have as many wolves around close to the deadline to push the vote the way it needs to go.
although i dont know why i fell so much farther down your list than barkeep and coffee, i will be around at the deadline to move if needed.

[saldana]

on a different train of thought - was fozzies other game designed the same way where only one person had the slightest idea what was happening...that just seems like a bad mechanic to me...what if cronin were killed early in the game? (no offense foz, i am rethinking cronin...i dont like being led around by the snout)

[st.cronin]

saldana, you're lower down only because I haven't sniffed you. And as I've commented, I'm sure Foz has some sort of backup if I were killed early.

[Coffee Warlord]

Ya'll think I'm reading too much into this?

I'm kind of wondering if Cronin is physically unable to tell us exactly what's going on, and instead forced to spew forth the names of the real bad guys via the above insanity.

[st.cronin]

Ya'll think I'm reading too much into this?

I'm kind of wondering if Cronin is physically unable to tell us exactly what's going on, and instead forced to spew forth the names of the real bad guys via the above insanity.

No, I'm being very literal with everything I've said. In fact, I think after the vote deadline I might be able to identify the wizard.

[Alan T]

Can somebody clarify what about Alan T I am supposed to be vouching for? The only thing I see is that he liked when I said early votes might be valuable - but I can't imagine how that would prove anything.

Well it wasn't that I know that early votes might be valuable, but the stuff I mentioned earlier, just from the way you spoke last night, I had a feeling that you knew something else which I posted about this morning. I might have been wrong and you did put out everything you knew last night.

What was key for me about you is that I was told that now majority vote does not matter, but instead the timing of the vote, type of vote or other determinations could matter instead. So for me when you said the thing about getting a vote in early, it rung some bells for me.

It sounds to me that you didn't catch the stuff I mentioned, so its not a huge deal to me. Doesn't effect my trust in you, just was hoping it would be able to give me some support.

[saldana]

Ya'll think I'm reading too much into this?

I'm kind of wondering if Cronin is physically unable to tell us exactly what's going on, and instead forced to spew forth the names of the real bad guys via the above insanity.


interesting thought....maybe he is saying that lathum and hoops are the real bad guys and the reason he wants to make sure there are enough wolves around within the last hour is because that is when he is going to be able to tell us the truth?

[Alan T]

interesting thought....maybe he is saying that lathum and hoops are the real bad guys and the reason he wants to make sure there are enough wolves around within the last hour is because that is when he is going to be able to tell us the truth?

I dont understand that though.. if he previously had cleared hoops, and had not sniffed lathum yet at all, and sniffed Sackattack last night... where would his feeling for this come from at all?

I think I'm more confused now than at the start of today.

I like the Schmidty vote, however I think I don't understand why Tyrith is still around if he was in the "lover" role. I have both of them at pretty equal lack of trust, and instead of making it a Schmidty run away, I'll

VOTE TYRITH

[Coffee Warlord]

No, I'm being very literal with everything I've said. In fact, I think after the vote deadline I might be able to identify the wizard.

Then what's the purpose behind an absolutely mind numbing statement about hoping we have people late to push the vote "where it needs to be"?

We looking at some sort of insane assault on someone late?

You know someone better to vote for than Schmidty, who already has what, 3 votes?

[SackAttack]

I sniffed Sack Attack, he came up wolf. I voted for Lathum, but actually he is now in my innermost circle of trust.

I came up wolf, you say.

I would hope so, under the circumstances. Aren't we all wolves here?

What's the problem? And how does voting for somebody in your "ultimate circle of trust" serve anything? Seems like that would be relying on the stupidity of the humans to go "oh, the seer is voting for Lathum even though he's publicly saying different things! let's jump on board with that!"

[st.cronin]

Then what's the purpose behind an absolutely mind numbing statement about hoping we have people late to push the vote "where it needs to be"?

We looking at some sort of insane assault on someone late?

You know someone better to vote for than Schmidty, who already has what, 3 votes?

Simple, I/we won't know the voting rules until 1 hour before deadline.

[st.cronin]

I came up wolf, you say.

I would hope so, under the circumstances. Aren't we all wolves here?

What's the problem? And how does voting for somebody in your "ultimate circle of trust" serve anything? Seems like that would be relying on the stupidity of the humans to go "oh, the seer is voting for Lathum even though he's publicly saying different things! let's jump on board with that!"

Ok,

I have the ability to sense the henchmen. When I say you came up wolf, that means you are not a henchman.

My vote for Lathum is an attempt to flush out the wizard, no more, no less. How and why I don't think I should be explaining just yet.

[SackAttack]

Ok,

I have the ability to sense the henchmen. When I say you came up wolf, that means you are not a henchman.

OK. That makes sense. I'm clean as far as you can sniff (well, don't sniff me right NOW, I haven't showered yet), because I didn't come up as a henchman.

Foz, your game mechanic breaks my brain. I need to hurt you.

[SirFozzie]

Foz, your game mechanic breaks my brain. I need to hurt you.

wot, again?

[Coffee Warlord]

wot, again?

Sack's gonna have to take a number.

I'm killing him first. :)

[SirFozzie]

Sack's gonna have to take a number.

I'm killing him first. :)

Vote Coffee Warlord

Self Defense :)

Wait, that pesky Running the game thing.

Unvote Coffee Warlord

Seriously.. I hope you all are having fun, even if I am taking a pickaxe to your brains with the rules.

[Coffee Warlord]

Vote Coffee Warlord

Self Defense :)

Wait, that pesky Running the game thing.

Unvote Coffee Warlord

Seriously.. I hope you all are having fun, even if I am taking a pickaxe to your brains with the rules.

Ass. :D

I frankly cannot wait till this one is over, just to see the real descriptions of all the roles.

[st.cronin]

I've been thinking about what Alan T, saldana, Barkeep, etc, have said, and I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to explain more fully how the rules might change.

There are six possibilities:

- rules don't change
- player with the least votes gets lynched
- player with the first vote gets lynched
- player with the last vote gets lynched
- player who votes first gets lynched
- player who votes last gets lynched

Saldana, Barkeep, and Alan T's partial reveals make me think there's more to it than that, but I really don't know.

[Alan T]

I've been thinking about what Alan T, saldana, Barkeep, etc, have said, and I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to explain more fully how the rules might change.

There are six possibilities:

- rules don't change
- player with the least votes gets lynched
- player with the first vote gets lynched
- player with the last vote gets lynched
- player who votes first gets lynched
- player who votes last gets lynched

Saldana, Barkeep, and Alan T's partial reveals make me think there's more to it than that, but I really don't know.

Cronin, so you are saying there is a possibilty that we might still have the same voting rules today after all? Would that mean that my tiebreaker would still be in effect in that case? Or is that something you do not know?

So something we watch for here then would be to see who the first voters, last voters and such are? Now that you posted this, I have a feeling they will blend in a bit now. Even though, if i had to guess, there is only 1 - 2 of them left, so I don't see them risking themselves for a last vote when it has a possibility of lynching them right now.

I actually think in a weird way, these rules help us more than them.

[st.cronin]

Cronin, so you are saying there is a possibilty that we might still have the same voting rules today after all? Would that mean that my tiebreaker would still be in effect in that case? Or is that something you do not know?

So something we watch for here then would be to see who the first voters, last voters and such are? Now that you posted this, I have a feeling they will blend in a bit now. Even though, if i had to guess, there is only 1 - 2 of them left, so I don't see them risking themselves for a last vote when it has a possibility of lynching them right now.

I actually think in a weird way, these rules help us more than them.

Yes, it is possible the voting rules will not change.

I don't know what your tiebreaker is.

First and last voters, and who they voted for, could be important. I don't know who is left to vote.

I'm also curious to hear what saldana and BK have to say about this.

[st.cronin]

dola

I'm also hoping this will give Coffee a chance to clear himself.

[saldana]

Yes, it is possible the voting rules will not change.

I don't know what your tiebreaker is.

First and last voters, and who they voted for, could be important. I don't know who is left to vote.

I'm also curious to hear what saldana and BK have to say about this.


there were two parts to my role pm, one of them fits in with the new rule possiblitites, that being that my votes may be more valuable than i think they are. since we dont know what the actual voting rules are, the value of everyones votes has now changed. i have no idea which way they will change, or even if these are the only possible scenarios.

[SackAttack]

Sack's gonna have to take a number.

I'm killing him first. :)

vote Coffee Warlord

Numbers? We don't need no steenkin' numbers!

[SirFozzie]

vote Coffee Warlord

Numbers? We don't need no steenkin' numbers!

You are all Numbers! For example, you are Number Six :)

[Alan T]

You are all Numbers! For example, you are Number Six :)

Is that code?? Today is 6/6/06! Are you telling us he's evil???

[SackAttack]

You are all Numbers! For example, you are Number Six :)

Yeah, but who does Number Two work for?

That's right, bitch.

[SirFozzie]

Is that code?? Today is 6/6/06! Are you telling us he's evil???

Alan, are you drunk again?

(you know, it feels good to use that line on someone else).

Bah, no one here knows anyhting about classic TV :D

[saldana]

Is that code?? Today is 6/6/06! Are you telling us he's evil???
or possibly that since his was the 6th vote, he gets lynched, or he is the only vote that counts.

[SackAttack]

Alan, are you drunk again?

(you know, it feels good to use that line on someone else).

Bah, no one here knows anyhting about classic TV :D

It's The Prisoner, innit?

[SirFozzie]

It's The Prisoner, innit?

A-yup.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, but who does Number Two work for?

No, Who's On First.

[Alan T]

I never really watched british tv series.

[SackAttack]

No, Who's On First.

How did I get on first?

[SirFozzie]

Albatross! Get yer Albatross Here!

[st.cronin]

Barkeep - vote Sack Attack
Coffee - vote Schmidty
st.cronin - vote Lathum
saldana - vote Sack
Barkeep - unvote Sack, vote Schmidty
saldana - unvote Sack, vote Schmidty
Alan T - vote Tyrith
Sack - vote Coffee Warlord

not voted - Schmidty, hoopsguy, Lathum, Tyrith


Schmidty - 3
Lathum - 1
Coffee - 1
Tyrith - 1

First vote - Sack
First player voted - Barkeep

That's where we are right now. Last vote and last player voted are obviously subject to change.

[Alan T]

Barkeep - vote Sack Attack
Coffee - vote Schmidty
st.cronin - vote Lathum
saldana - vote Sack
Barkeep - unvote Sack, vote Schmidty
saldana - unvote Sack, vote Schmidty
Alan T - vote Tyrith
Sack - vote Coffee Warlord

not voted - Schmidty, hoopsguy, Lathum, Tyrith


Schmidty - 3
Lathum - 1
Coffee - 1
Tyrith - 1

First vote - Sack
First player voted - Barkeep

That's where we are right now. Last vote and last player voted are obviously subject to change.

It might be first vote still standing too though? Ie: first vote could be considered either Sack or Schmidty, and first voter could be: Barkeep or Coffee?

Or am i reading too much into this?

[hoopsguy]

VOTE TYRITH

At this point, it isn't necessarily because I think he is bad - I'm a little surprised he is alive if he isn't but I concede that Fozzie could have used the "limited masons" role instead of "brothers" role, as suggested by Barkeep.

But given how random the vote appears to be at this point, I don't want to get stuck with a vote on a person who is going to really damage our cause if he is telling the truth with his reveal.

- if he is lying, then there is a pretty good chance he is human
- if he is telling the truth, then we aren't taking a chance of losing the pack leader, seer, or some other critical role based on this vote

I'm willing to move the vote somewhere else later in the day, if there is compelling evidence that someone is clearly bad and that we have reason to believe we understand the voting rules.

Normally, I'm in complete agreement with Barkeep's assertions of "vote who you think is guilty", with a small dose of risk management factored into the decision. But in this particular case I'm ignoring it.

Note - vote listed again at the bottom of the post to make it easier for counting them later in the day.

VOTE TYRITH

[st.cronin]

It might be first vote still standing too though? Ie: first vote could be considered either Sack or Schmidty, and first voter could be: Barkeep or Coffee?

Or am i reading too much into this?

It's possible, I guess. I would take it as first vote, whether the vote was later unvoted or not.

[Alan T]

Also, one of the conditions listed was player with the least votes. How in the world would that be computed in the case of 3-4 people with 0 votes? Maybe it considers votes during the entire course of the game from day 1 till now? Even then you could still end up with ties.

[SirFozzie]

without confirming or denying it, in such a hypothetical situation it would be the first/last voted entered.. It doesn't have to be a vote that still counts, as long as it was valid when entered.

[SirFozzie]

Also, one of the conditions listed was player with the least votes. How in the world would that be computed in the case of 3-4 people with 0 votes? Maybe it considers votes during the entire course of the game from day 1 till now? Even then you could still end up with ties.

Multiple person ties will be resolved by the rules, if no other functions come in (Roles or Boss Breaks Tie), it will be random

[st.cronin]

Also, one of the conditions listed was player with the least votes. How in the world would that be computed in the case of 3-4 people with 0 votes? Maybe it considers votes during the entire course of the game from day 1 till now? Even then you could still end up with ties.

My interpretation is that if it is least vote, we currently have three players tied with 1. Otherwise it doesn't make sense, I agree.

[Lathum]

My interpretation is that if it is least vote, we currently have three players tied with 1. Otherwise it doesn't make sense, I agree.
OK, this is an odd strategy but I am wondering if St. Cronin voted for me sp I wouldn't be involved with the least votes, which would be zero. If that is the case it didn't work because I am now tied at one, but if he unvotes me I go back into a tie with zero, so for now

VOTE LATHUM

that should give me 2 votes, enough to not get lynched but also not tying me with anyone. If someone finds a way to make sure I am involved in a tie then we should strongly lookat that person.

I am leaving for work now but will be home before the deadline.

[Alan T]

OK, this is an odd strategy but I am wondering if St. Cronin voted for me sp I wouldn't be involved with the least votes, which would be zero. If that is the case it didn't work because I am now tied at one, but if he unvotes me I go back into a tie with zero, so for now

VOTE LATHUM

that should give me 2 votes, enough to not get lynched but also not tying me with anyone. If someone finds a way to make sure I am involved in a tie then we should strongly lookat that person.

I am leaving for work now but will be home before the deadline.


I guess my understanding was least votes would also consider those with 0 votes too? not just least of the people with votes? Maybe I'm wrong here.

[st.cronin]

I guess my understanding was least votes would also consider those with 0 votes too? not just least of the people with votes? Maybe I'm wrong here.

I don't think that 0 counts.

[Alan T]

I don't think that 0 counts.


Ok lets see. so far I've guessed wrong about the possibility of real voting rules happening today, wrong about what it means by the first vote, by the first votee. Been wrong about what it meant by least number of votes...

I'm not off to a good start today. If I was in Mass this week, I would drive to EMC and beat Fozzie up. :)

Ok here is one I'm pretty safe on.. So last person who is voted has a 1/6 chance of being lynched. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong there too, I dare you!

[st.cronin]

Ok lets see. so far I've guessed wrong about the possibility of real voting rules happening today, wrong about what it means by the first vote, by the first votee. Been wrong about what it meant by least number of votes...

I'm not off to a good start today. If I was in Mass this week, I would drive to EMC and beat Fozzie up. :)

Ok here is one I'm pretty safe on.. So last person who is voted has a 1/6 chance of being lynched. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong there too, I dare you!

For all I know you're right about everything. My role says that when the rules change, I will know, but only 1 hour before the voting closes. The only indication I have gotten that this is imminent is the description of Anxiety's death.

What I am sure about is: Lathum and hoops are good guys. Coffee, Barkeep, and Sack are not the wizard. Anybody else seems like a decent lynch vote today.

[saldana]

Also, one of the conditions listed was player with the least votes. How in the world would that be computed in the case of 3-4 people with 0 votes? Maybe it considers votes during the entire course of the game from day 1 till now? Even then you could still end up with ties.

i thought about this several days ago, which is why i was adamant about leaving my vote on hoops on day 4 (later switched to anxiety)...i thought maybe the only way to kill the wizard was with an accumulation of votes of the course of the game.

[hoopsguy]

Coffee, Barkeep, and Sack = not henchmen, could be the wizard. Correct?

[st.cronin]

Coffee, Barkeep, and Sack = not henchmen, could be the wizard. Correct?

Correct. I'm actually almost halfway convinced that the wizard is Coffee.

[Coffee Warlord]

i thought about this several days ago, which is why i was adamant about leaving my vote on hoops on day 4 (later switched to anxiety)...i thought maybe the only way to kill the wizard was with an accumulation of votes of the course of the game.

Wow. THAT would be interesting.

[Alan T]

Currently this is what i see as the running totals (obviously changes as more votes come in:



First vote - Sack
First player voted - Barkeep
Last vote - Lathum
Last player voted - Lathum
Lowest votes - Coffee (1)
Highest votes - Schmidty (3)


Schmidty - 3
Lathum - 2
Tyrith - 2
Coffee - 1

Not voted: Schmidty , Tyrith.

One thought though.. if we find out in the last hour what the day lynch method is going to be, this could end up being like Ebay couldnt it, as a race to get your lynch in last?

[Schmidty]

Ok. I'm catching up and notice that I have a bunch of votes on me. I'm not going to have much time at all to spend on the board, so I guess I'm basically dead. Good job humans, you mind-fucked everyone into killing another wolf.

Bleh, whatever.

[SirFozzie]

Read Schmidty, it may not be as bad as you think.

[SackAttack]

Yeah, seems like it's pretty tight at the moment, Schmidty.

[Schmidty]

I guess my point also is that I don't even know how to defend myself. I've played my normal game and haven't done anything more odd than just about everyone here vote-wise.

All I really can do to save myself, is point the finger solidly at someone else. The only problem is that I don't know who to accuse, since I don't have a strong feeling about anyone.

If anyone cares whether I live or die, ask me questions regarding any suspicions that you have of me, and I'll answer them. Otherwise, I'll die quietly and the humans will be one step closer to victory.

[Schmidty]

Yeah, seems like it's pretty tight at the moment, Schmidty.

Only Tyrith and I haven't voted, and I have 3 votes and he has 2; therefore, the outcome is obvious.

[Alan T]

Ok. I'm catching up and notice that I have a bunch of votes on me. I'm not going to have much time at all to spend on the board, so I guess I'm basically dead. Good job humans, you mind-fucked everyone into killing another wolf.

Bleh, whatever.


That is somewhat of a blowup for someone who with their vote could tie it up. :) Plus, with the rules as we know it for today, its evidentally not even gurantueed that even matters. Looking at all of the various possible lynch methods today, your chance of being lynched right now is less than 20% it seems. And you can even change that with your own vote (one of 2 that hasnt voted).

[Alan T]

Schmidty, I think the best thing for you right now would be to read at least today's conversations. Its pretty much believed that today's vote is different than others. I stand by my thinking that you currently have less than a 20% chance of being lynched if nothing changes.

That said though, I currently don't have my vote on you, but you are one of my top two suspects. I could always move my vote to you if I felt, but I honestly don't even know what that would get me to be honest even if I suddenly changed my mind and felt you a better candidate for lynch.

I think the biggest thing I have been saying to you the past few days is I need something from you to show me you are part of our side. Any reference to you as a suspect is usually greeted with a response of "well prove I am bad" Which you know as well as I do that isn't how things work in WW. By this point of the game, there are very few people who don't have at least someone vouching for them or shown some signs of good faith. Its going to be natural for people to start looking at you since we honestly don't really know much anything good or bad about you. But you are a better lynch pick for us than someone who we are fairly confident is good now.

[Schmidty]

I didn't notice that the rules basically changed, since I haven't had much time to read the thread........and the fact that I am pretty damned lazy right now. :)

[Coffee Warlord]

I didn't notice that the rules basically changed, since I haven't had much time to read the thread........and the fact that I am pretty damned lazy right now. :)

Give us some reasons someone else is better, give us your role (which honestly, at this point, I don't see a WHOLE lot of reason to keep it secret), give us a general gut feeling you have about someone(s).

Give us SOMETHING.

[Schmidty]

Give us some reasons someone else is better, give us your role (which honestly, at this point, I don't see a WHOLE lot of reason to keep it secret), give us a general gut feeling you have about someone(s).

Give us SOMETHING.

Fine. At this point, it doesn't matter.

I am the Pack Beta.

[Alan T]

Well to help get you going some Schmidty, my vote isnt currently on you but it could have probably been just as easily as my current target.

Some things that others have said that we don't know about you at all..

What role do you have?
Who do you think might be bad guys here?
Who are you pretty sure might be good guys on our side?

Right now I have very little to go on about you, I don't know what you do, who you trust, who you don't trust.. All I know of you is that you have voted late in almost every day, and pretty much most of your votes all have not really played any impact in any day so far (ie: just slipping through)

I'm looking for both reasons to lynch people and not lynch people right now. Unfortunatly, I just don't have many reasons to not target you, where I do have at least some for other people.

[Tyrith]

All I have to say is this. Blade's death description made it very clear that one of the living players had a strong relationship with him. I revealed that it was me several days ago, and it has not be contradicted at all since then. I was part of the early dogpile on anxiety. Take it for what it is.

[Tyrith]

Oh, and I completely agree with cronin about lathum, it confirms what I've been thinking for a while.

[st.cronin]

Oh, and I completely agree with cronin about lathum, it confirms what I've been thinking for a while.

Can you explain?

[Tyrith]

For the last game day or two I've been fairly certain lathum was our best buddy, but didn't want to be the one to blow the load because of the risks involved. It just fits in with everything he's said and everything that has happened.

[Barkeep49]

I'm out until after lynch

[Tyrith]

Unless circumstances change, I don't plan on voting until after the magic one hour line, in case any new information comes out. My primary suspect right now is Coffee, because he hasn't been able to give any specifics at all about his role. Schmidty is my secondary suspect, for lack of reason to trust him.

I'm somewhat surprised nothing happened, however, seeing as my power with blade was really kinda crappy and random death is a stiff punishment in WW, plus my general lack of involvement with what happened with blade throughout the game, I can't say I'm too surprised.

[st.cronin]

For the last game day or two I've been fairly certain lathum was our best buddy, but didn't want to be the one to blow the load because of the risks involved. It just fits in with everything he's said and everything that has happened.

I have had it mind the last day or so that either him or you were bad. I'm convinced he's good; I'm still unsure about you.

[Alan T]

Cronin, I still don't understand your sudden change on Lathum from last night, unless either then or now was an act. You said you sniffed Sack, what changed your opinion of him in such a 180?

[Tyrith]

I have had it mind the last day or so that either him or you were bad. I'm convinced he's good; I'm still unsure about you.

I'm trying to what I can now. I'm open to suggestions as to what you think I should do.

[SackAttack]

I'm out until after lynch

You know, I read that as 'after lunch,' and then I remembered: we're wolves.

lunch, lynch, aren't they really interchangeable? :D

[st.cronin]

Cronin, I still don't understand your sudden change on Lathum from last night, unless either then or now was an act. You said you sniffed Sack, what changed your opinion of him in such a 180?

Like I have said, its a game of chicken.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, is the beta you being cute with the "alpha" role? Or is it an actual role? If so, can you give some information about what is involved with it - hopefully in a way that helps the wolves more than the wizards?

That would give us something to mull over between now and final hour.

[saldana]

Schmidty, is the beta you being cute with the "alpha" role? Or is it an actual role? If so, can you give some information about what is involved with it - hopefully in a way that helps the wolves more than the wizards?

That would give us something to mull over between now and final hour.
the fact that all he said was "im the beta wolf" and gave us nothing else did not help his case in my puny little mind.

[SackAttack]

the fact that all he said was "im the beta wolf" and gave us nothing else did not help his case in my puny little mind.

But at least he isn't the omega, surely he deserves credit for that.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty, is the beta you being cute with the "alpha" role? Or is it an actual role? If so, can you give some information about what is involved with it - hopefully in a way that helps the wolves more than the wizards?

That would give us something to mull over between now and final hour.

No, it's not being "cute". Sheesh.

I am the Pack Beta, and I have no powers right now. I don't want to go further, because I don't want to be a target of the humans tonight (if I make it that far).

[Schmidty]

the fact that all he said was "im the beta wolf" and gave us nothing else did not help his case in my puny little mind.

If it comes down to me either being lyched or telling my role, I'll do it. But I'd prefer not to, because I don't want to be targeted tonight.

[st.cronin]

No, it's not being "cute". Sheesh.

I am the Pack Beta, and I have no powers right now. I don't want to go further, because I don't want to be a target of the humans tonight (if I make it that far).

I really don't think anybody has to worry about that.

[Schmidty]

I really don't think anybody has to worry about that.

Am I missing something in the rules, yet again? I still haven't gone through everything in the past few pages. Like I said earlier, I'm busy today. I'm not able to spend more than a few minutes at a time at my desk.

[st.cronin]

No, all I mean is that it's pretty much a done deal that I will be target tonight.

[Schmidty]

No, all I mean is that it's pretty much a done deal that I will be target tonight.

Damnit, I am playing awful this game guys. I'm really sorry that I haven't helped much.

I'm admittedly the worst WW player, but I'm not usually this bad. I started out so suspicious of hoops and a few others (because of past games), that I've been afraid to trust anyone.

[Alan T]

Cronin, I'm just trying to tie up loose ends. Can you confirm Hoops's account of last night. Did you also receive information that he guarded you from the bad guys last night?

[st.cronin]

Cronin, I'm just trying to tie up loose ends. Can you confirm Hoops's account of last night. Did you also receive information that he guarded you from the bad guys last night?

Yes, hoops succesfully protected me last night. There is no way that he is either the wizard, or on the wizard's side.

[Alan T]

Yes, hoops succesfully protected me last night. There is no way that he is either the wizard, or on the wizard's side.


ok thanks, what I was looking for. Trying to come up with a trust list for myself, and wanted to make sure that it was confirmed.

[hoopsguy]

Repost from #1, for wolf victory conditions:


The game will go until the Wizard flees, The Wizard and his henchmen outnumber the remaining Wolves (or a 1v1 basis), or the Wizard and his henchmen are all killed.

Victory Conditions:
Complete Victory: Wizard and henchmen killed, Wolf Boss stays alive
Moderate Victory: Wizard Flees, Henchmen killed, Wolf Boss stays alive
Moderate Victory: Wizard and henchmen Killed, Wolf Boss is killed
Light Victory: Wizard Flees, Henchmen Killed, Wolf Boss is Killed


Thoughts:
1.) It doesn't look like the wizard flees until we get the henchmen.
2.) I wonder if the wizard automatically flees when we get the henchmen, or if he has the opportunity to stay and battle longer?
3.) The language here is "Wolf Boss" - not Alpha Wolf specifically. I know I posted on Alpha wolf because it was in my role description (looking for one to guard after seeing one from other pack die) and I believe someone else had introduced the phrase before me on Day 3. But the victory conditions do not explicitly list this role.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - bad quote, should have included the line above it as well.

[Alan T]

Repost from #1, for wolf victory conditions:


The game will go until the Wizard flees, The Wizard and his henchmen outnumber the remaining Wolves (or a 1v1 basis), or the Wizard and his henchmen are all killed.

Victory Conditions:



Thoughts:
1.) It doesn't look like the wizard flees until we get the henchmen.
2.) I wonder if the wizard automatically flees when we get the henchmen, or if he has the opportunity to stay and battle longer?
3.) The language here is "Wolf Boss" - not Alpha Wolf specifically. I know I posted on Alpha wolf because it was in my role description (looking for one to guard after seeing one from other pack die) and I believe someone else had introduced the phrase before me on Day 3. But the victory conditions do not explicitly list this role.


Ok, so I think I see where you are going with this. I guess the question is the term pack alpha used anywhere in the game by fozzie?

Now to be the devil's advocate here, you already said in your role the term pack alpha was used, so if we are to believe you (which it seems we should now), I think that is a Fozzie term officially in this game.

[Tyrith]

The wizard can flee as a night according to a Fozzie post on page 1 or 2, but we have to get all the bad guys to win the game regardless.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not sure if alpha is an official role, but I suspect it is.

I'm fine with having some uncertainty here if it makes life tougher for the wizards.

[st.cronin]

Hoopsguy, can you post a suspect list for me, in some sort of order of suspicion?

[Blade6119]

Tick Tock, someones gonna die :)

[SackAttack]

Blade, you have no equal when it comes to pointing out the inanely obvious.

[st.cronin]

"inanely obvious"

I like that.

[SirFozzie]

we are in the final hour.

The Law has been set.

[st.cronin]

I have the rule, guys - voting rules as normal. So, unless things change, Schmidty's head is on the block.

[saldana]

well thats an anti-climax if i ever saw one.

[st.cronin]

well thats an anti-climax if i ever saw one.

No kidding. I'm curious to see what, if anything, happens now.

[Alan T]

Foz, you remind me of this girl in school long ago. She liked to tease alot.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, here is what I think for the suspect list:

Least trusted - Schmidty/Tyrith
Next level down - AlanT
Middle of the pack - Sack, Coffee
Moving towards trust - Lathum (based on your strong vouch), Saldana
Pretty highly trusted - Barkeep
Almost 100% trusted - Cronin
Complete trust - self

Barkeep was cross-trusted by you and Saldana/Coffee, so that separates him a little bit from the other two in that pseudo-triumvirate.

Barkeep is more confident in Saldana than Coffee, so he moves up the list a little bit. Coffee is lower because he hasn't been able to play along with the role game with Saldana/Barkeep but he isn't a henchman, per your logic.

The three guys who can't be vouched for up to this point are at the bottom of the list. If no one trusts AlanT's reveal, I place it alongside Tyrith in terms of risk/reward for the lynch - doesn't sound like a role we are screwed if we lose at this point.

[st.cronin]

Do you think Tyrith or Schmidty is most likely to be a bad guy?

[hoopsguy]

If we want to make a play at the wizard, we could try to set up a tie between people who are not yet trusted. Let AlanT show us his tie-breaker ability, which should be in play with normal rules (right?) ...

[st.cronin]

In other words, how much do you trust your list?

[SackAttack]

hoops, if you've guarded cronin in the past, and he's been attacked, why isn't he 100% yet?

[hoopsguy]

Push comes to shove, I've voted Tyrith for a couple of days now and would probably go that way. I think it would feed in nicely with Blade's "traitor" language from Night 2 as well.

But I've been pretty damn wrong with my "distrust list" all game, so I've been less likely to charge windmills alone as the game has progressed.

[st.cronin]

Lathum, what would it take to get you to vote for Tyrith or Schmidty?

[hoopsguy]

Sack, I've guarded him twice. I strongly believe he is good, particularly as I was told I drove off an attack on him last night. I haven't seen a game yet that allowed a mechanic to fake out the bodyguard. So Cronin is a 99% for me - for all intents and purposes he is absolute trust for me and I probably should have written it that way.

[SackAttack]

Sack, I've guarded him twice. I strongly believe he is good, particularly as I was told I drove off an attack on him last night. I haven't seen a game yet that allowed a mechanic to fake out the bodyguard. So Cronin is a 99% for me - for all intents and purposes he is absolute trust for me and I probably should have written it that way.

That's what I would have thought. That's why I was a little surprised to see it at "almost 100%."

I guess you can't rule anything out where Fozzie is concerned.

As far as your windmills, Tyrith is only one vote behind as of the last vote count I see, and both he and Schmidty have yet to vote. Would only require one vote to change from somebody else to Tyrith to support your "windmill charge."

[Lathum]

Unvote Lathum

[Schmidty]

Do you guys think I would be this stupid if I were not a wolf?

Oh yeah, you probably would. :(

[Alan T]

If we want to make a play at the wizard, we could try to set up a tie between people who are not yet trusted. Let AlanT show us his tie-breaker ability, which should be in play with normal rules (right?) ...

Sure, I am up for that if you want. I assume it works if normal rules are in effect. Right now I am on Tyrith, so i can't force a tie by myself. However, I think we need to make sure that if we try this, that it is setup between Schmidty and Tyrith, and get Lathum out of harms way

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I'm interested in seeing what you do with your Lathum vote here.

AlanT, do you know if you have your tie-breaker ability tonight since we are back to playing by normal rules?

[Lathum]

OK, I am not really sold on schmidty being a baddie here, there is something about the title of his role that made me think. Right now I am leaning towards voting for schmidty unless he reveals more than just his title.

I am also not sold on the saldana/barkeep/cw thing.

[SackAttack]

Sure, I am up for that if you want. I assume it works if normal rules are in effect. Right now I am on Tyrith, so i can't force a tie by myself. However, I think we need to make sure that if we try this, that it is setup between Schmidty and Tyrith, and get Lathum out of harms way

Who's on Tyrith and who's on Schmidty? Do we have a count that shows that? All I've seen is the number of votes each person has.

[st.cronin]

My vote stays on Lathum, but don't worry about that. I'll explain after the deadline.

[Schmidty]

By the way, my belated answer to Alan's question: I still don't have a trust list. Everyone's been out to get me since day 2. The only person I half-believe is hoops, and even that is marred with second-guessing myself.

I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" O SAVE MY ASS. IT"S STUPID.

Yes, I'm tipsy. It's been a long day.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, working through the Saldana/BK/CW deal - do you call BS on the whole thing or are you singling out a specific player?

[Alan T]

Cronin, I'm interested in seeing what you do with your Lathum vote here.

AlanT, do you know if you have your tie-breaker ability tonight since we are back to playing by normal rules?


I was told in PM that there were some things that even my luck couldn't protect me from, and assumed that meant after yesterday my role was not intact anymore. I was told if the law was restored, then I would get my ability back. I assumed all day that meant if we did something to return the game to normal voting rules (by killing the wizard or who knows what). Maybe it just meant this. I have to admit that before Cronin said earlier that the rules could still be normal, I did not believe that. My impression that the rules would change all together.

If I had to guess, then my tiebreaker is in effect as long as the voting rules are normal. (Fozzie said earlier in the thread that normal roles would count in this case I believe)...

[Lathum]

VOTE SCHMIDTY

subject to change if details of his role match up with my theory.

[Schmidty]

That should be:

"I don't want to lie: I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE UP SOME FAKE "TRUST LIST" TO SAVE MY ASS. IT'S STUPID."

My bad.

[Lathum]

Lathum, working through the Saldana/BK/CW deal - do you call BS on the whole thing or are you singling out a specific player?
I'm not calling BS it just seems odd that 3 people would be "linkled" like that somehow and to be honest with you I can't even remember how the trio came to be. I need to go back and sift through the posts but I think for now it is a mute point.

[Schmidty]

VOTE SCHMIDTY

subject to change if details of his role match up with my theory.

You chose poorly.

It's probably my own fault. I've played like crap this game, and I'm kind of embarrased..

I'm not allowed to specifically quote my role, but the gist (?) of it is that I don't have any powers unless the Alpha dies. If he does, I am basically him in regard to his role's abilities. I don't know who the Alpha is (I asked) and I don't know what his powers are.

That's it.

I'm really sorry wolves. :(

[st.cronin]

Coffee interests me, as a potential wizard. Right now we (probably) have 1 henchman and 1 wizard left.

[saldana]

coffee interests me as well, and will probably get my vote tomorrow unless something changes....he has been totally unable to pick up on what barkeep and i found rather easy to see in each others posts, and he hasnt posted anything that hasnt been a basic rephrase of something i have already said.

[SackAttack]

Coffee interests me, as a potential wizard. Right now we (probably) have 1 henchman and 1 wizard left.

I would agree. My only thought is, let's say Schmidty is being truthful about being the Beta wolf and what it means to the power dynamic.

Do the humans have a similar role? Is that role filled by the one presumptive henchman, or is there another we're overlooking?

Or is that just a dynamic intended to help the wolves, since the "villagers" haven't done so well in the games I've followed of late?

[st.cronin]

I would agree. My only thought is, let's say Schmidty is being truthful about being the Beta wolf and what it means to the power dynamic.

Do the humans have a similar role? Is that role filled by the one presumptive henchman, or is there another we're overlooking?

Or is that just a dynamic intended to help the wolves, since the "villagers" haven't done so well in the games I've followed of late?

Even if there is, what difference does it make?

[hoopsguy]

Someone have a vote count?

[st.cronin]

dola

I mean in terms of our voting logic, either today or tomorrow.

[SackAttack]

Even if there is, what difference does it make?

It doesn't. But it's something to consider that I certainly hadn't thought about, and there's always the possibility that it might play into the saldana/CW/BK thing.

[hoopsguy]

If we don't feel like we are in end game mode, then I would suggest weighing the risk/reward strategies with AlanT and Tyrith against Schmidty.

Neither of those guys is the alpha wolf, unless they have been incredibly cagey about it up to this point.

If Schmidty is to be believed, the opposition will have to get through both the alpha and him before they can take out this role. And they are probably going to want to get Cronin at some point as well.

I don't think they number more than three at this point in the game, given that we got one last night so I don't think we are in an end-game scenario here.

Just something to mull over - if people are pretty damn confident on Schmidty being a human and that his reveal is BS then please disregard this. It is only intended as advice for someone flipping a coin between equal candidates as I am at the moment.

[Lathum]

UNVOTE SCHMIDTY

he gave me what I needed.

[SackAttack]

I have to go. Running way late for an appointment.

With my uncertainty on Schmidty, I'm going to leave my vote as is.

Good luck, guys. Get us a human.

[st.cronin]

hoopsguy, last vote right now is on Schmidty, plus he leads in actual votes

[Lathum]

VOTE TYRITH

he is my next best choice

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, do you have the full vote list? I'm compiling it in parallel with this but would rather spend time talking votes than collecting this at the moment if you already have this and can cut/paste it in here.

[st.cronin]

Tyrith and Schmidty have yet to vote, right?

[Lathum]

and I actually think schmidty has played his role quite well

[Schmidty]

BTW, I'm waiting to vote until I know what's going on as far as the votes against me. I want to at least try to save my self, and us wolves.

If someone (or more) helps me to stay alive, I guarantee that you will look golden later.

If it's looking more like I'm going to die regardless, I plead that you don't only look at the 1st and last person to vote for me once you find out that I'm a wolf. Those are always the two obvious targets for the bad guys to focus on once a good guy dies. Don't just assume.

[Alan T]

I have no idea who has voted for who. I'm stuck at work for a bit longer, but if you need me to move my vote betwee Schmidty and Tyrith, let me know. Right now mine is on Tyrith for the tiebreaker

[st.cronin]

hoopsguy, I don't have the full vote list, but I believe Tyrith is ahead.

[Tyrith]

It's 3-3 right now.

The only person I have any suspicsion towards right now is Coffee Warlord. He hasn't had any evidence to back up his role all game, and hasn't been helpful at all. Hoops has said all game to vote for who you think is guilty. So be it.

VOTE COFFEE WARLORD

[saldana]

lathum, are you SURE?!

[saldana]

barkeep isnt here, but if hoops, lathum and cronin, all want me to save shmidty i will

[Lathum]

schmidty, i'm not going to go as far as to vouch for you but I am on your side

[Schmidty]

It's 3-3 right now.

The only person I have any suspicsion towards right now is Coffee Warlord. He hasn't had any evidence to back up his role all game, and hasn't been helpful at all. Hoops has said all game to vote for who you think is guilty. So be it.

VOTE COFFEE WARLORD

DAMNIT!!!!!!!!

If you force me to cause a tie, YOU ARE SETTING ME UP.

Holy shit, if you are a human, you are playing a DAMNED good game with that move.

[Tyrith]

As I have it.

Tyrith - 3: hoops (1551), lathum (1649), alan (1522)
Schmidty - 3: barkeep (1491), saldana (1499), CW (1479)
Coffee - 2: Sack (1537), tyrith (1656)
lathum - 1: cronin (1482)

[st.cronin]

Well I like that.

[Alan T]

Lol watch Schmidty vote for coffee, then this should get fun

[Schmidty]

DAMNIT!!!!!!!!

If you force me to cause a tie, YOU ARE SETTING ME UP.

Holy shit, if you are a human, you are playing a DAMNED good game with that move.

That should be "If you force me to cause a tie, YOU ARE SETTING ME UP BY MAKING ME SAVE MYSELF.

[Schmidty]

Oh, I guess I'm wrong about the vote count.

DAMN, I fucking suck at this game.

[st.cronin]

Schmidty if you trust me vote for Coffee.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, I'm kind of interested in seeing how the tie-breaker will play out here ...

1.) If AlanT is honest about his role, and we are under normal rules, wouldn't it apply here and hang Tyrith?
2.) If not, then the alpha has the opportunity to save Schmidty if he believes him. Which I think is a decent option - leaves the wizards trying to guess where to go tonight, after the alpha or Cronin?
3.) If neither alpha or wizard save a player, then we go to fate and have 50/50 on two players who we have questioned all game long.

In short, I think we learn from a tie here.

[Alan T]

Ok, if Schmidty votes for Tyrith out of self preservation, you can still have me test my role with Cronin switching to schmidty. so no biggie

[st.cronin]

penultimate reveal:

LAST VOTE is the only one that counts. Right now it's Coffee.

[Tyrith]

I think we're stuck in another situation where we refuse to look past what we perceive as obvious. It happened in 26 and won the bad guys a game, and it happened again. If nothing else happens, and Alan isn't a liar, then look right at CW and sack tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

As of Post #1668:

Schmidty - Coffee (1479), Barkeep (1491), Saldana (1499)
Lathum - Cronin (1482)
Tyrith - AlanT (1522), Hoopsguy (1551), Lathum (1649)
Coffee Warlord - Sack (1537), Tyrith (1656)

Not voted - Schmidty

[Schmidty]

Shit. I need to decide soon. This sucks. Someone help me. Or don't, because I don't trust you.

I like that Lathum understands my role, but I don't want to help him if he is a human, or condemn him for the humans if he's a wolf.

FUCK.

[Lathum]

lathum, are you SURE?!
Either schmidty has made one of the best WW plays of all time or he is legit.

[Tyrith]

Lathum is a good guy. Kill me before you kill him.

[st.cronin]

SCHMIDTY VOTE FOR CW

[saldana]

unvote schmidty

[saldana]

vote coffee warlord

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, with the late curve ball from Cronin you could sit this one out or vote for Coffee Warlord and it is the same result - until someone switches votes behind you.

Or you could vote for Tyrith if you are worried about a final misdirection by Cronin.

[Schmidty]

SCHMIDTY VOTE FOR CW

Fine. I will choose to trust someone who puts themself out there.

Vote Coffee Warlord

[hoopsguy]

Updated as of Post #1678:

Schmidty - Coffee (1479), Barkeep (1491)

Lathum - Cronin (1482)

Tyrith - AlanT (1522), Hoopsguy (1551), Lathum (1649)

Coffee Warlord - Sack (1537), Tyrith (1656), Saldana (1677)

Not voted - Schmidty

[SirFozzie]

wow. Talk about a record for double dealing.

and..

Deadline

[Alan T]

Well this was a climatic ending... So Cronin was I right all along and we won't have any normal voting until we lynch the wizard? That seems to be what I was under the impression of.

[Schmidty]

Oh my Lord.

FUCK.

[Tyrith]

Here is to hope, that cronin wasn't screwing us.

[SirFozzie]

The wizard folds his hand.. let's see what the rule is.. he chortles to himself..

He waves his hand grandly at the pack...

[saldana]

fozzie, if youre looking at hoops post, make sure to count schmidty. he got in after hoops counted

[Schmidty]

FUCK FUCK FUCK.

I retire. For real this time.

[Schmidty]

I hate this game.

[Schmidty]

If we lose, I hate you Cronin.

For like a week at least. :(

[SirFozzie]

RULE: PERSON VOTED FOR LAST

And you are all forced to attack COFFEE WARLORD, who quickly falls under your claws and teeth.

You watch his body, anticipating another change, praying that your prey will change..

but there is no change.

Welcome to Night 5, folks.

[saldana]

well that sucked

[Schmidty]

Fucking A.

Vote for me now. I give up.

Seriously.

Vote Schmidty

I finally understand Qwik.

[Tyrith]

Well, holy crap. That gambit backfired a little.

[hoopsguy]

Heh, I'm laughing pretty hard at Schmidty right now. He is the clubhouse leader in werewolf retirements.

By the way, I think my next game will be fun - you should definitely sign up for it. I'll give you a super-important role that puts insane pressure on you the whole way.

[SirFozzie]

Fucking A.

Vote for me now. I give up.

Seriously.

Vote Schmidty

I finally understand Qwik.

Werewolf Gods, do I get a bonus for driving a player insane? :D

[Lathum]

Lathum is a good guy. Kill me before you kill him.
this smells like a set up to me.

[st.cronin]

Ok, well, that didn't go as well as I hoped.

I was compelled by the wizard to vote Lathum. I assume the wizard expected me to scan Lathum, thus having to vote for somebody I had just cleared, creating confusion. Anyway, I'm sure I'm toast tonight. I don't know who the wizard is. I don't know who the other henchman is. Sorry guys, I guess I'm probably toast tonight.

[Schmidty]

Heh, I'm laughing pretty hard at Schmidty right now. He is the clubhouse leader in werewolf retirements.

By the way, I think my next game will be fun - you should definitely sign up for it. I'll give you a super-important role that puts insane pressure on you the whole way.

I hate you.

And I unretire. I am terrible and weak. :(

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, do you have role information that convinces you about Lathum or just a set of assumptions from watching the game go by?

[SirFozzie]

Just so you know folks..

I am still LMAO!

No one will EVER want to play in one of my games ever again :)

[Alan T]

Ok, well, that didn't go as well as I hoped.

I was compelled by the wizard to vote Lathum. I assume the wizard expected me to scan Lathum, thus having to vote for somebody I had just cleared, creating confusion. Anyway, I'm sure I'm toast tonight. I don't know who the wizard is. I don't know who the other henchman is. Sorry guys, I guess I'm probably toast tonight.


Its ok Cronin, I think you helped us alot even without providing a bad guy. You gave us a solid block of people we know are not the henchmen. Good possibility one is the wizard, but its a good start for us.

[Tyrith]

There's no way I could have set that up. I vote for CW, pretty much sacrificing myself, then the rule changes, and then cronin calls for schmidty to kill CW, then schmitdy kills CW...in the span of five minutes...

Lathum, that was an honest appeal in the case he was actually a good guy that was undecided and unsure. This, in the end, is a team game. Hoops has been right; right now, I'm a vanilla wolf. I suspect much more out of you, except that I don't trust any of cronin's opinions at the moment.

[st.cronin]

By the way

When I found out what the rule was (last vote counts), I had no flipping idea what to do.

[Tyrith]

Assumptions. The way he was talking so strongly about other people before; my own gut instinct; cronin's own instinct. I have no factual evidence for anyone still alive.

[Alan T]

By the way

When I found out what the rule was (last vote counts), I had no flipping idea what to do.


Well the only thing when you announced it with 5 min left that crossed my mind was what if the bad guys took advantage of it to try to vote you or hoops off. I ended up mostly just hitting refresh the last minute to see if anyone tried anything. When Saldana unvoted, for a second I thought we were being double crossed.

It all ended well not great, but could have been worse I guess.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, the only thing I would have done differently is target AlanT or Tyrith because there was a chance for them to be either wizard or henchman. With CW there was only a chance of wizard. I thought you played the mechanic well today, all things considered. If you had guessed right you would have put insane pressure on the enemy at the end.

[Schmidty]

I feel like a cheap whore being used by American business men in Thailand with a blindfold on. :(

[st.cronin]

Well the only thing when you announced it with 5 min left that crossed my mind was what if the bad guys took advantage of it to try to vote you or hoops off. I ended up mostly just hitting refresh the last minute to see if anyone tried anything. When Saldana unvoted, for a second I thought we were being double crossed.

It all ended well not great, but could have been worse I guess.

That would have been too obvious.

[saldana]

I feel like a cheap whore being used by American business men in Thailand with a blindfold on. :(

LOL,did you drink all those beers i sent at one time?;)

[SirFozzie]

Reading comments... *still is giggling* oh I love this game..

Sorry guys, I really am enjoying this. Couldn't ask for a better bunch of players.

[saldana]

my biggest question now is: wtf happens tomorrow...do we go back to normal rules, or is there some other last second thing again

[Tyrith]

I was going with my gut, and with cronin, who is the player I've trusted the most for the last two days. Unfortunately, I can't make a right move this game, except for jumping in on anxiety yesterday.

[saldana]

Reading comments... *still is giggling* oh I love this game..

Sorry guys, I really am enjoying this. Couldn't ask for a better bunch of players.

anyone else thing fozzie is just making shit up as he goes along, and there are no actual rules to this game.

[Abe Sargent]

Reading comments... *still is giggling* oh I love this game..

Sorry guys, I really am enjoying this. Couldn't ask for a better bunch of players.


Even the dead ones?


-Anxiety

[st.cronin]

Saldana - I don't know. I *think* that the rules stay the same until we kill another henchman.

[Tyrith]

*maim slaughter kill fozzie*

[Schmidty]

LOL,did you drink all those beers i sent at one time?;)

No, I drank them in 2 days. I need to tell you how damn good they were.

Mmmmm.......Mephistpheles.... :eek:

[SirFozzie]

Even the dead ones?


-Anxiety

yup. All you guys are the bestest.

I want to sit down with everyone who's out and showem what's going on just so I can share the fun, but I think it'd be best to reveal everything at the end.. for two reasons.

1) I know that it's more fun for you guys to be guessing
2) Guard against even inadvertant slips
3) Cuz I want to spring it all on everyone at the end.

[SirFozzie]

*maim slaughter kill fozzie*

Gee, I must be doing something right!

[Tyrith]

yup. All you guys are the bestest.

I want to sit down with everyone who's out and showem what's going on just so I can share the fun, but I think it'd be best to reveal everything at the end.. for two reasons.

1) I know that it's more fun for you guys to be guessing
2) Guard against even inadvertant slips
3) Cuz I want to spring it all on everyone at the end.

I vote for a new GM, because this one can't seem to count! :P

[SirFozzie]

I vote for a new GM, because this one can't seem to count! :P

Right the three reasons I want to reveal everything at the end..

1) I know that it's more fun for you guys to be guessing
2) Guard against even inadvertant slips
3) Cuz I want to spring it all on everyone at the end.
4) Cuz I'm an evil bastard..

Look I'll come in again.. no one expects the spanish inquisition!

(thanks Tyrith :D)

[st.cronin]

Fwiw, I think Tyrith's votes/posts today were the most suspicious.

[hoopsguy]

On the topic of heads exploding, if Schmidty is legit then my head is going to explode from three late vote switches to me on Day 2, all from fellow wolves :eek::confused::mad:

[Tyrith]

Fwiw, I think Tyrith's votes/posts today were the most suspicious.

The only way my posts even make sense is if both me and schmidty are bad. At the time I started the CW side trip the voting rules were still normal. It doesn't make any sense at all for me to run off clucking like an idiot then.

[st.cronin]

The only way my posts even make sense is if both me and schmidty are bad. At the time I started the CW side trip the voting rules were still normal. It doesn't make any sense at all for me to run off clucking like an idiot then.

Well, what I am thinking is that a clever wizard would take a shot at throwing out the last vote. I don't know - if CW had been bad, it would have helped us so much - it would have cleared Schmidty, among other things.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, for what it is worth I don't think you are a no-brainer decision tonight for the humans. There are other worthwhile targets out there for them, particularly if they feel like you are going to go in the wrong direction looking for the henchman.

[st.cronin]

Cronin, for what it is worth I don't think you are a no-brainer decision tonight for the humans. There are other worthwhile targets out there for them, particularly if they feel like you are going to go in the wrong direction looking for the henchman.

Somewhat agree. I'd rather they get me than either you or the wolf boss, though.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, between last night and today you became convinced of Lathum as a good guy. Was this the result of some other night information - you haven't shared this as of yet and I guess I would prefer to not have it go unrevealed if you do think you are going to be eating a lightning bolt overnight.

Obviously use your best judgement here ... but based on other players' comments I think there are some assumptions already out there whether you choose to comment or not.

[st.cronin]

Well, I have operating under the assumption that the badguys have some sort of counter to my ability - that if they know who I'm going to be sniffing, they can do something about it. So yesterday I named Lathum as my #1 suspect, even though he really wasn't anywhere on my radar. Then last night the wizard compelled me to vote for Lathum. Had I actually sniffed Lathum, and sensed normal wolfishness, this would have been an effective strategy. So I'm assuming that Lathum is on our side. I don't have any hard evidence, but it would be very odd if the wizard compelled me to vote for one of his men.

[Barkeep49]

Ok that was just terrible. I am not going to lie. I mean we voted for a guy who is semi-cleared versus either of TWO guys who are NOT cleared. I mean I understand the last minute save Schmidty so why the hell didn't it condemn Tyrith? Was I happy with CW? No. But He was clearly not a henceman, something we knew thanks to cronin. So why bother doing that here?

[Barkeep49]

I also think based on the rules that Alan should be highly regarded as suspicious. His role doesn't wash with what we know of the initial and changing rules.

[st.cronin]

Ok that was just terrible. I am not going to lie. I mean we voted for a guy who is semi-cleared versus either of TWO guys who are NOT cleared. I mean I understand the last minute save Schmidty so why the hell didn't it condemn Tyrith? Was I happy with CW? No. But He was clearly not a henceman, something we knew thanks to cronin. So why bother doing that here?

My bad. I just got this feeling that he was likely the wizard; just a combination of stuff.

Sorry.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, back in the Star Wars game I faked compelling a vote on me as a bad guy. I would not discount the possibility of them compelling a vote early in the day, particularly if they had discussed the metric extensively with Fozzie before enacting it.

If they knew that you were going to be able to make other comments that did not gel with your vote, then forcing you early on one of them doesn't sound like the dumbest idea ever.

Is this the most likely scenario? Nope, but this isn't enough of a reason for me to elevate him too far up the trust list from where I was already at based on post content, vibe, etc.

[st.cronin]

I also think based on the rules that Alan should be highly regarded as suspicious. His role doesn't wash with what we know of the initial and changing rules.

I agree.

I don't know if the voting rules will be different tomorrow, or normal, but I think known humans should make an effort to get the FIRST vote on Alan, and the LAST vote on Alan. Any non-cleared player making a first or last vote should be regarded skeptically.

[Tyrith]

What if the vote compulsion was a night action?

[st.cronin]

Cronin, back in the Star Wars game I faked compelling a vote on me as a bad guy. I would not discount the possibility of them compelling a vote early in the day, particularly if they had discussed the metric extensively with Fozzie before enacting it.

If they knew that you were going to be able to make other comments that did not gel with your vote, then forcing you early on one of them doesn't sound like the dumbest idea ever.

Is this the most likely scenario? Nope, but this isn't enough of a reason for me to elevate him too far up the trust list from where I was already at based on post content, vibe, etc.

I see your point. My comment about Lathum the day before is, to me, what makes that unlikely, though - I as much as announced that I would be sniffing him.

[Tyrith]

Right now, I'm inclined to agree with the more experienced players here. I'm not going to try to screw with anything. Unless anything comes up, in the middle of the day I'm going to dump my vote on alan and leave it there.

[Barkeep49]

My bad. I just got this feeling that he was likely the wizard; just a combination of stuff.

Sorry.
But we're not in the end game yet. I'm all for getting the wizard but I would love to get his hencemen first as we have a much better chance to get them.

[Barkeep49]

Right now, I'm inclined to agree with the more experienced players here. I'm not going to try to screw with anything. Unless anything comes up, in the middle of the day I'm going to dump my vote on alan and leave it there.
I don't think the "experienced" players have said any such thing. I believe a couple of players have simply questioned Alan's role reveal. But then again people have questioned Schmidty's reveal as well.

[Barkeep49]

I guess I understand the desire of some to go for the homerun. It just seems as though we just got doubled up, finding out nothing useful and losing a werewolf, when at least with Schmidty or Tyrith we find something out we really didn't know. If CW had been the wizard, which I admit is frankly what I thought, you all would be heroes.

[st.cronin]

But we're not in the end game yet. I'm all for getting the wizard but I would love to get his hencemen first as we have a much better chance to get them.

Well I didn't know which of the non-cleared players to go after. And at this point, it's almost as good odds that one of the players I've sniffed is the wizard, than that one of the non-cleared players is wizard or henchman.

[Barkeep49]

Well I didn't know which of the non-cleared players to go after. And at this point, it's almost as good odds that one of the players I've sniffed is the wizard, than that one of the non-cleared players is wizard or henchman.
I agree that's true, but the odds are far better at finding a henceman then the the wizard. Oh well. Ok drugs have kciked in so I'm out for the night.

[Alan T]

Like I said today, feel free to test me on my role reveal. Im ok with that.

Now that said, I feel that I am a better target then people who are cleared as not Henchmen (but possibly the wizard). Scientifically I could be either role, so better chance at getting a good plus there.

However I am fully willing to use my role as the situation comes up to prove it. There are also plenty of people who have actually done detremental things for our side without anyone confirming them. Please don't overlook them just for me.

Im going to be honest, I dont think we should trust anyone on just reveal alone. Whether its me, Schmidty, Tyrith, or whoever unless we can get backup confirmation. Feel free to look back over what I have tried to do this game and then come up with your conclusions of if you honestly think I have been doing everything I can to mislead you or to actually help our side here.

I am being 100% honest about my role, I am a wolf, I am on your team, and killing me won't get us closer to getting a henchman. That said, I never have lived past day 3 in WW games, so this has been alot of fun for me. I'm one of you guys, but I wont vote for myself tommorrow, I will continue to try to pick the person I think is the best chance for us to win. I still think thats Tyrith, and will likely vote for him again tommorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I've been meaning to congratulate you on clearing that hurdle.

For better or for worse ...

[Alan T]

Hehe, there have been 2 firsts this game hoops. That one, and something else we talked about long ago that has never happened for you and I. :)

[saldana]

Hehe, there have been 2 firsts this game hoops. That one, and something else we talked about long ago that has never happened for you and I. :)
are you guys gonna hug now or something?

[Alan T]

I feel a tear coming

[saldana]

i feel vomit coming

[SirFozzie]

anyway folks, Foz Go Sleepy time. will check for any last minute PM's but anything else can wait till morning :)

[Coffee Warlord]

Jesus, you killed me?

NICE WORK.