Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[Barkeep49]

yes!!!! i knew i was right! and this time the bastage didnt get to kill me along with him.
I do believe you knew you were right about CW as well. :)

I am planning on doing, either tonight or the weekend after this, a study on what is considered a good hit % for bad guys.

[st.cronin]

I do believe you knew you were right about CW as well. :)

I am planning on doing, either tonight or the weekend after this, a study on what is considered a good hit % for bad guys.

Werewolf rankings!

[Alan T]

Werewolf rankings!

Werewolf hot or not?

[saldana]

I do believe you knew you were right about CW as well. :)

I am planning on doing, either tonight or the weekend after this, a study on what is considered a good hit % for bad guys.


you had to ruin it for me:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tyrith]

Will someone please believe that I'm not a bad guy now?

[Tyrith]

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/5610/werewolf279cg.jpg

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, I'm considerably closer to believing it after re-reading some of the stuff from last night. But who do you think is now that Sack is being vouched for by Barkeep and Saldana?

And do you think there is any way we are facing multiple bad guys at this point?

Don't need answers on this until Night phase is over, but those are the questions I'm asking myself at the moment in trying to figure out where to go on Day 7 - assuming I'm still around.

[Lathum]

I'm waiting for the night phase to be over and then I plan on revealing my role

[SackAttack]

Wow. I guess we seriously dodged a bullet there. I don't know if AlanT had the tiebreaking abilities he was claiming, but I'm glad the voting rules tripped him and gave us a human kill.

Now hopefully we get through the night actions okay.

[SirFozzie]

Good news folks.

I just saved..

no.. you'd kill me if I re-ran that old joke.

There's some flashes of lights, and insane laughter continues to echo through the village, but once again, when all of you return to the center of town.. you're all there. We'll, all of you are there, except for one who's not all there.

Hmm. Confusing? Good :)

Day 8 is upon us. Voting ends at 10 PM

[Tyrith]

Oh lord. I don't think there's any way we're facing multiple baddies unless it's two out of the BK/saldana/sack group who are working together. You're good, if we assume all three of them are good and I'm good then both schmidty and lathum would have to be bad, which seems highly unlikely. It's got to be schmidty or lathum unless someone in the vanilla group has pulled a fast one. It all comes down to how much we trust lathum.

[hoopsguy]

Well, my voting record may not be the best but my bodyguard skills have been pretty good down the stretch. Schmidty was attacked last night and I repulsed it.

[Tyrith]

The way schmidty acted yesterday is completely consistent with how a bad guy might act. He didn't want to go with alan but realized how bad it would be to drag them both down with the ship.

[saldana]

{waiting for lathums role reveal}

[Tyrith]

Well, that screws that theory.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I think center stage is all yours.

[Tyrith]

We need to get answers out of lathum. If we don't, I think we kill him for lack of better options. Otherwise, we're going to have to start coming through the code that the vanilla group started and look for holes or possible errors. It seems unlikely, but what other options do we have?

[Lathum]

OK as promised.

I am the pack alpha. I trust schmidty because I would assume someone would inherit my role is I was killed. To put it bluntly only I can kill the wizard but I would rather not say how. I have played it close to the vest because I was trying to out the wizard and then make my move.

It was I who protected blade the night he was targeted, the lighting bolt hit me but because of my surperior strength I absorbed it even thought it weakened me. It was I who screamed out at the wizard.The reason I trust hoops is because if he was lying about being the body guard he would have claimed to have protected blade, which I know he did not. This is how I also knew blade was good.

The PM I got about that night said I was one of the targets but bacause of my power I was able to absord the lighting bolt that hit me and also take the hint fom it's twin.

I'm sorry if I am wrong Tyrith, but all of my evidence still point to you.

VOTE TYRITH

[Tyrith]

Time for me to make a long series of assumptions.

1) There are no remaining henchmen.

2) Schmidty was attacked last night, thus, he's a good guy. He isn't lying about his role, so the alpha is still alive.

3) Current role reveals mean that lathum has to be the alpha.

4) Hoops hasn't been pulling the greatest fake in history.

This leaves us with schmidty, lathum, and hoops all as good guys. If there is another henchmen in the game it has to be in the group of lathum, me, schmidty, and saldana, but this seems highly unlikely.

This means that the four remaining suspects are me, and the group of vanillas. The best defense I can mount at this point is that alan and anxiety spent their last days trying to kill me, however, voting for me seems to be the simplest solution. It isn't correct though, so either today or tomorrow, it's going to come back down to coming through posts. There's probably a crack in the vanilla code somewhere, and it has to be found.

[hoopsguy]

Backed up at work, but will look to shake free in a couple of hours. My read on the Night 8 summary is that we only have the wizard left to contend with ... hope that isn't wishful thinking.

[Tyrith]

Uh...did I miss a day in there somewhere, because six lynches + three night kills = nine dead, leaving us with the seven players we have...it should be Day 7.

[SackAttack]

Tyrith, the title of the thread says Day 7, so either it is and there's no problem, or you typo'ed.

[hoopsguy]

Nope, I think he is reacting to my typo saying Night 8 in Post #2020.

[SackAttack]

Nope, I think he is reacting to my typo saying Night 8 in Post #2020.

Oh, right.

[SirFozzie]

No, it was my typo in the title :)

[Alan T]

I die and this place goes to the dogs... I swear!

[Schmidty]

OK as promised.

I am the pack alpha. I trust schmidty because I would assume someone would inherit my role is I was killed. To put it bluntly only I can kill the wizard but I would rather not say how. I have played it close to the vest because I was trying to out the wizard and then make my move.

It was I who protected blade the night he was targeted, the lighting bolt hit me but because of my surperior strength I absorbed it even thought it weakened me. It was I who screamed out at the wizard.The reason I trust hoops is because if he was lying about being the body guard he would have claimed to have protected blade, which I know he did not. This is how I also knew blade was good.

The PM I got about that night said I was one of the targets but bacause of my power I was able to absord the lighting bolt that hit me and also take the hint fom it's twin.

I'm sorry if I am wrong Tyrith, but all of my evidence still point to you.

VOTE TYRITH

That's good enough for me, oh powerful Alpha:


Vote Tyrith

[SirFozzie]

I die and this place goes to the dogs... I swear!

You mean the wolves, right ? :D

[Schmidty]

My total and undeniable circle of trust, just in case people were wondering:

hoopsguy
Lathum

[Schmidty]

My total and undeniable circle of trust, just in case people were wondering:

hoopsguy
Lathum

I'll expand on the above:

Full trust:

hoopsguy
Lathum

Marginal trust:

Barkeep
saldana


Distrust:

SackAttack
Tyrith

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, just want to clarify - is your trust on Lathum role-related? Or based on accepting his post here? I'm pretty inclined to agree either way with what you are saying but if it is tied to your role then I think it is important to clarify so that he unequivocally joins the trust list for everyone else.

[hoopsguy]

Also, since I successfully guarded him last night Schmidty is now completely trusted in my eyes - and hopefully in the eyes of the other wolves.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty, just want to clarify - is your trust on Lathum role-related? Or based on accepting his post here? I'm pretty inclined to agree either way with what you are saying but if it is tied to your role then I think it is important to clarify so that he unequivocally joins the trust list for everyone else.

I would know if the Alpha was dead, and he isn't. Lathum basically revealed his role prior to today, and no one has stepped up to refute that (another "Alpha"). Now he has revealed the details of his role, and everything rings true to me.

Basically, other than irrational distrust, there doesn't seem to be any reason not to trust him.

[SackAttack]

Also, since I successfully guarded him last night Schmidty is now completely trusted in my eyes - and hopefully in the eyes of the other wolves.

I agree. The only possible way Schmidty is not a wolf is if there are still two humans out there, and even that would've been a risky, convoluted ploy.

I trust Schmidty at this point.

[Lathum]

Also, since I successfully guarded him last night Schmidty is now completely trusted in my eyes - and hopefully in the eyes of the other wolves.
hoops, just to clarify, doea this mean schmidty was the target of the attatck last night?

[Schmidty]

hoops, just to clarify, doea this mean schmidty was the target of the attatck last night?

Yes. I recieved that confirmed that I had been attacked and saved. But I'll let hoops answer that officially.

[Lathum]

OK< my distrust list basicly is Sack and tyrith, hopefully there are no henchmen left and one of them is the wizard.

I am going to work now and will not be around for the deadline so I hope there is nothing that will be life or death at that time. GL to everyone except the wizard.

[Tyrith]

He's the one out of the three amigos that I trust the least. Saldana got us alan, so he's the least suspected out of the three in my eyes. Barkeep has been the lynchpin the clearing scheme, which doesn't make sense for a bad guy. So, here it is.

VOTE SACK ATTACK

[hoopsguy]

Confirmed - Schmidty was attacked last night. I stopped it.

[Schmidty]

Confirmed - Schmidty was attacked last night. I stopped it.

What a guy. After all the shit I gave you - My hero!! :D

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, I would have hated to see you snuffed so soon after getting your promotion.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty, I would have hated to see you snuffed so soon after getting your promotion.

Hehe, thanks man. :)

[Barkeep49]

Well I have to admit I'm confused. Confused indeed.

Is Lathum now gone for the day? If not what do you, Lathum, make of the traitor line?

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- I'm also not so ready to believe Lathum, though the combo of Lathum and Schmidty does present reason to believe it.

[Barkeep49]

Oh and Lathum are you suggesting that we cannot kill the wizard through tonight's vote? Because honestly I think we only have the wizard left.

[Barkeep49]

Continuing my thoughts: I worry about the Sack having cracked the code. I didn't think it was that hard. On the otherhand CW never saw it, so that does suggest that it wasn't so obvious. But to me it was right there in the open and an astute player could have picked up on it, like hoops did with "brilliant" a couple games back.

[SackAttack]

Continuing my thoughts: I worry about the Sack having cracked the code. I didn't think it was that hard. On the otherhand CW never saw it, so that does suggest that it wasn't so obvious. But to me it was right there in the open and an astute player could have picked up on it, like hoops did with "brilliant" a couple games back.

It was also in the game's first million pages, which I read after accepting the role, but didn't read exhaustively.

It predated my participation, and had I seen it sooner, I would have responded sooner.

'Astute,' though. My WW track record is an absymal one - my one win basically rode hoopsguy's strategy until the endgame, when the play became obvious. I think if I were an 'astute' player, my track record would be much better.

[Schmidty]

like hoops did with "brilliant" a couple games back.

I am never going to live that "brilliant" thing down, am I.

Damnit, I want to run another game to redeem myself.

[SackAttack]

I am never going to live that "brilliant" thing down, am I.

Damnit, I want to run another game to redeem myself.

This is why I trust Schmidty now.

He's not that astute either. :D

[Barkeep49]

I am never going to live that "brilliant" thing down, am I.

Damnit, I want to run another game to redeem myself.
Schmidty I don't blame you at all for that. And in fairness it actually helped to balance the game and give the humans a fighting chance.

[Barkeep49]

It was also in the game's first million pages, which I read after accepting the role, but didn't read exhaustively.

It predated my participation, and had I seen it sooner, I would have responded sooner.

'Astute,' though. My WW track record is an absymal one - my one win basically rode hoopsguy's strategy until the endgame, when the play became obvious. I think if I were an 'astute' player, my track record would be much better.
I don't blame you for missing it the first time reading the thread. I just wonder, once directed to read it, if a person of good intellegence, which I think you are, couldn't pick it up.

[Tyrith]

I definately think that Sack is the wizard, but I understand why I'm probably going down. But the way he reacted at first about being a vanilla wolf, even though the discussion of the original vanilla group was still on going seemed EXTREMELY suspicious at the time, and given time to try to cover it up, most bad guys can pull off something.

[SackAttack]

I don't blame you for missing it the first time reading the thread. I just wonder, once directed to read it, if a person of good intellegence, which I think you are, couldn't pick it up.

I appreciate the odd vote of confidence.

I would say, though, if you're worried that it was open enough for somebody who's joined in mid-game to pick up on, why didn't the humans we've lynched, who were in the game from the word 'go,' pick up on it or do anything about it?

[SackAttack]

Body shop called, said the stuff we found wrong with my car when I went to pick it up yesterday has been fixed.

I'll be back well before deadline.

[Schmidty]

I want to see what happens discussion-wise between saldana, Barkeep, Tyrith and Sack before I make a final vote.

For now:

Unvote Tyrith

[hoopsguy]

Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to ask them that question. But it seems like both AlanT and Anxiety created their own role reveals rather than try to leech onto another role reveal that was (at least early on) not clearly held by multiple parties.

Will fire off a vote when I get home, but here is a quick trust list:
1. Schmidty - guarded him
2. Lathum - if Schmidty is trusted, and not the alpha, then it stands to reason someone is. No one else claimed it or contested Lathum's claim
3. Saldana - a re-read of the thread elevates him up the list higher than I had him earlier
4. Barkeep - still pretty solid trust level here, initiating conversation with Saldana about roles helped along with non-henchman vouch by Cronin (I think we are only down to wizard, but I'm not 100% sure)
5. Sack/Tyrith - still need to work through these two guys tonight to determine where my vote is headed.

[Tyrith]

There is a case to be made for it being highly unlikely that four out of the eight good guys surviving the first three days being vanilla, especially considering the only reveal to that points were hoops and half of cronin's bonkers role.

[Tyrith]

I don't see a scenario where we have multiple bad guys left. Barkeep would have to have deceived two different good players with his code or he would have to been extremely gutsy by coming up with a fake code and having people play along. That, or the one bad guy attacking another scenario, but seeing that schmidty was a highly unlikely guard target last night that just doesn't make sense at all.

[saldana]

I am never going to live that "brilliant" thing down, am I.

Damnit, I want to run another game to redeem myself.

i havent forgotten (i peed in those beer bottles)

[saldana]

I don't see a scenario where we have multiple bad guys left. Barkeep would have to have deceived two different good players with his code or he would have to been extremely gutsy by coming up with a fake code and having people play along. That, or the one bad guy attacking another scenario, but seeing that schmidty was a highly unlikely guard target last night that just doesn't make sense at all.


i disagree, schmidty was a perfect target last night...we argued all day about whether or not cronin was the alpha, and suspicion fell to schmidty when he didnt step up and take over. this meant one of two things. the alpha is still alive, which he is if we believe lathum. or, cronin was the alpha, but the beta doesnt inherit the powers of the alpha immediately, kind of like the Student of Magic mechanic from harry potter. if you believed the latter of the two choices, it would make perfect sense to kill the beta before he was promoted.

basically this game has come down to 5 trusted people vs 2 untrusted people, so here is how i see things from this point. we lynch tyrith tonight, if he is the wizard, we win. if he is a wolf, we lose a wolf during the night phase, unless hoops does well again, but should still be up 4 to 1 (wolves v wizard), and then we kill sack tomorrow. either way, unless there are more than one human left, we should be able to win this.

vote tyrith

[Schmidty]

i havent forgotten (i peed in those beer bottles)

Sir, your piss is like sweetest honey has ever been sipped.

[saldana]

Sir, your piss is like sweetest honey has ever been sipped.

you should look around your area, Mephistopheles is from Boulder, Co, and is very widely distributed, but is a limited production beer, still, you could still be able to find some, and with your new job, you need to start living the good life (beerwise)

[saldana]

you should look around your area, Mephistopheles is from Boulder, Co, and is very widely distributed, but is a limited production beer, still, you could still be able to find some, and with your new job, you need to start living the good life (beerwise)


dola, try here:

http://www.ratebeer.com/Place/washington/bellingham/the-bottle-shoppe/3830.htm

[SackAttack]

Back from picking up my mechanical baby, and in for the evening.

[saldana]

hoops, BK, i see you are both here, any thoughts on post 2060

[Barkeep49]

So it looks like Lathum is out for the evening. That is disappoitning. Anyone have a vote count handy?

[Barkeep49]

Frankly I think Schmidty was a weird target. However, I'm not opposed to lynching Tyrith tonight. I just don't view Lathum as cleared by any stetch of the imagination. I am bothered, however, by the idea that Lathum is telling the truth. In which case are we even going to be able to Lynch today? What happens if he has to kill the wizard in some special way and we attempt to lynch the wizard? Does that end the game by the wizard fleeing? Will it back fire upon us? I feel like we're missing a lot of important information here if Lathum is telling the truth. And if he's not telling the truth all the more I wish we could have answers as the more talking the more likely someone will catch onto something they know can't be right.

[hoopsguy]

Current vote count, as of Post #2066:

Tyrith - Lathum (2018), Saldana (2060)
Sack - Tyrith (2038)

[hoopsguy]

Oh, I never revealed who I guarded on Night 5 - it was Lathum. Everyone now knows that I guarded Schmidty on Night 6.

I'm still paranoid that there are a pair of bad guys out there - I don't see how we gain from assuming there is only one so I would rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[hoopsguy]

With that idea in mind, I think that the smart play is to go for Tyrith who (perhaps through no fault of his own) does not have anyone who can vouch for him as non-wizard/henchman. At least we know that Sack is not a wizard.

Another strategy could be to force a tie between those two - splitting up the Barkeep/Saldana votes just in case they have some extra importance tonight - and seeing if the wizard or a henchman is in the mix.

If they are, do they have the stones to play coin flip on hiding their identity or will they just exercise their tie-breaker ability outright? I'm interested in getting thoughts from people on this play. If we aren't playing for a tie, then I think it ends up being Tyrith for my vote.

[Barkeep49]

A tie between who? Sack and Tyrith or Lathum and Tyrith?

[hoopsguy]

1.) Do we think that Anxiety would have cast his final vote for a fellow human (he moved it from me to Tyrith at the end)?
2.) If AE was the wizard (Sack took over his role), would he have cast the deciding vote on mckerney instead of me?

If it isn't either of these guys then Barkeep would probably be next on my list. But he would have needed to put a rope-a-dope on Saldana or else they would have had to conspire together and play pretty aggressively against both Anxiety and AlanT. These theories feel like reaches at the moment ...

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, I'm believing Lathum as an extension of complete trust in Schmidty and the fact that no one else has taken the bait on the alpha role up until now.

So Tyrith and Sack.

[SackAttack]

A tie between who? Sack and Tyrith or Lathum and Tyrith?

I think he means between me and Tyrith.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, I'm believing Lathum as an extension of complete trust in Schmidty and the fact that no one else has taken the bait on the alpha role up until now.

So Tyrith and Sack.
But even if we believe Schmidty, and I do, why does that clear Lathum? Who says that our "Lawgiver" isn't another "Dreamweaver"?

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, if you believe Schmidty he would inherit the role of the alpha. He has reiterated today that has not happened. Which, as he understands it, implies that the alpha role is still alive.

[Barkeep49]

Ok so I guess Tyrith is the higher percentage play. And I'm not unhappy about doing it, beyond the idea that if we are right this could have some nasty consequences. But better to be right.

Vote Tyrith

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, if you believe Schmidty he would inherit the role of the alpha. He has reiterated today that has not happened. Which, as he understands it, implies that the alpha role is still alive.
Ok that's logic I can buy.

[Tyrith]

I was thinking about this earlier. I think we go for the tie, because in order for the wizard to tiebreak he has to reveal. Keeping it close towards the end is more likely to provide information than a blowout, which tends to get people to clam up.

Remember, the only remaining people that can be henchmen are me, lathum, schmidty, and saldana. Two bad guys left just seems incredibly unlikely.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - would inherit the role of the alpha if the alpha passed. Cronin died on Night 5, we are into Day 7. If Schmidty had assumed the role of alpha, then he would have been all over Lathum upon his reveal today.

[Tyrith]

At this point I've almost made it so you have to kill me just to figure out if I believe all this crap I've been saying or not :)

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, the downside is that keeping it close gives the human(s) more room to move the vote to their advantage. Which may not be a good thing if we are still facing two foes.

I hope we are down to one, but I don't like making that assumption because there is no basis for it from any in-game info I have heard.

[Tyrith]

OOC - This is somewhat embarassing, but seeing that I was just a lurker up until WW bit me in the ass, I'm still not really sure on what the dola means and when precisely it is used. If someone could fill me in, I'd appreciate it.

[hoopsguy]

Try to slip in a dola, one minute apart, and there are three posts in the middle.

[Tyrith]

Yeah, I can understand that too. It's really not a bad play just to finally put me out of my misery.

I find it rather ironic that in my first two WW games I lived through the entire game (six days) and up until day seven. Especially considering the different circumstances; one game getting two throw away votes total, and this game being number two on the block for three days in a row until now. It's been a real rollercoaster, that's for sure.

[Tyrith]

Correction, I took three throw away votes in WW 26.

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, here you go:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=9493&highlight=dola

[hoopsguy]

VOTE SACKATTACK

Not sure if it stays here, but I don't risk Tyrith changing the race with his vote if I put it here. 3-2 Tyrith after this, with Sack and Schmidty still to vote (or abstain).

[SackAttack]

Vote Tyrith

Schmidty's random drunkenness or whatever it's been at the deadline the last couple of nights scares me. If somebody who's already voted wants to change their minds and abstain for the tie play later, whatever, but I'd rather take my chances with the Law than have the wolves get hurt by a deadline Schmidty vote.

[SirFozzie]

The Law Has been set, 1 hour 30 minutes to go.














(the Law is: Increase SackAttack's paranoia by any means necessary)

[Alan T]

Yeah, I can understand that too. It's really not a bad play just to finally put me out of my misery.

I find it rather ironic that in my first two WW games I lived through the entire game (six days) and up until day seven. Especially considering the different circumstances; one game getting two throw away votes total, and this game being number two on the block for three days in a row until now. It's been a real rollercoaster, that's for sure.


Heh I am just the opposite. My First WW game, our Seer (neon_chaos) had managed to out two bad guys the very first two days (a feat I have never seen before). And I personally felt it got to his head a bit and he went crazy about it. so i argued strongly with him that he needed to reign it back in. By the end of day 3, he was so sure that I was bad and anyone who voted with me was bad that it was painful to watch lol.. I got lynched by my own side as the first villager lynched that game :)

Ever since, I tend to almost always go early, I think its because I tend to be active in the games. Both when I have been good and bad, I always seem to be an early target for people. But I doubt i will ever change my playing style. I love being active in these games when I can. they are alot of fun for me. :)

This was my first game I actually lived past day 3.

[Tyrith]

No more law, we're playing straight up again, Sack.

[SirFozzie]

No more law, we're playing straight up again, Sack.


Shhh! Don't tell him that :)

[SackAttack]

Fozzie, you do realize I still have your address, right?

[saldana]

i wonder if the voting rules are static again tonight? all this discussion could be moot like yesterday if we get "first vote cast" or "last vote cast"

[hoopsguy]

Alan, one of these games we will end up playing on the same side - this is now four or five straight being opponents. I think it will be fun when that time comes, although I'm just about at the point now where you are the automatic 1st day vote for me :cool:

[SirFozzie]

Fozzie, you do realize I still have your address, right?

*cackles evilly*

[saldana]

i wonder if the voting rules are static again tonight? all this discussion could be moot like yesterday if we get "first vote cast" or "last vote cast"
dola, never mind...thats what i get for not refreshing enough

[SackAttack]

*cackles evilly*

I'm just sayin'...onna dese days, Fozz.

[hoopsguy]

Post #1984 by SirFozz:
As he dies, he shifts to human form, and a white flash from his body covers the village. A sense of equillibrium has been restored,

[saldana]

Post #1984 by SirFozz:
think that means voting goes back to normal?

[saldana]

or that we no longer have any "disguised" wolves left?

[SirFozzie]

I'm just sayin'...onna dese days, Fozz.

Onna dese days, I'll hit the lottery? Gee Tanks Sack! :D

[SackAttack]

think that means voting goes back to normal?

With the lucky references to AlanT and his comments about tiebreakers, I'd bet it does.

[SackAttack]

Onna dese days, I'll hit the lottery? Gee Tanks Sack! :D

It'll hit you like a tonna bricks, if you take my meaning. :D

[Barkeep49]

hoops why are we trying to force a tie? I think there's clearly a stronger candidate here. I'm not sold on SackAttack, but he did come up with the code where CW, who we now can be 99% sure had the info, did not.

[hoopsguy]

Votes as of Post #2100:

Tyrith - Lathum (2018), Saldana (2060), Barkeep (2077), Sack (2089)
Sack - Tyrith (2038), Hoops (2088)

No vote - Schmidty

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, if you were the wizard would you accept a coin-flip to determine your fate (or that of your henchman) or would you out yourself?

I'm not sold on the tie strategy, but figured that putting the vote there would at least generate some discussion. We have 75 minutes to go here, so let's dig into this.

[Tyrith]

You'll be a lot more sold on him in about 75 minutes :P

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing we are back to normal for voting. Glad that the metrics worked out for us last night.

[Tyrith]

Wizard can't afford to use the tiebreak. He has to stay hidden, because if the wizard is found out, he will be killed. Indecision is the only way they can stay in the game. I thought of this plan earlier, but that's what kinda killed it for me.

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, we don't know how the wizard can be killed. He has the ability to flee - we do know that from the rules. But we also know that killing him is hard, based on some pre-game posts from our illustrious GM.

[hoopsguy]

Re-reading from last night - Tyrith and AlanT both seemed pretty OK with the idea of a tie going into the vote. Obvious posturing by AlanT, unless both were bad guys ...

[Barkeep49]

Heh I am just the opposite. My First WW game, our Seer (neon_chaos) had managed to out two bad guys the very first two days (a feat I have never seen before). And I personally felt it got to his head a bit and he went crazy about it. so i argued strongly with him that he needed to reign it back in. By the end of day 3, he was so sure that I was bad and anyone who voted with me was bad that it was painful to watch lol.. I got lynched by my own side as the first villager lynched that game :)

Ever since, I tend to almost always go early, I think its because I tend to be active in the games. Both when I have been good and bad, I always seem to be an early target for people. But I doubt i will ever change my playing style. I love being active in these games when I can. they are alot of fun for me. :)

This was my first game I actually lived past day 3.
Alan I've actually put a lot of thought into this as well as I had been unsuccessful in living past early days. I seem to have done better lately

[hoopsguy]

Going back to Day 3, I was out of the mix for the last couple of hours. Path led on votes, but Tyrith tried to move votes towards Anxiety instead of looking to go after me while I was away. Is this a +EV move for a human?

There are an awful lot of questions I would like to ask the humans at the end of this game ...

[Tyrith]

If were both badguys it probably would have been smarter to orchestrate some sort of dogpile in order to keep information away, especially information about Alan's bogus reveal.

[Alan T]

Going back to Day 3, I was out of the mix for the last couple of hours. Path led on votes, but Tyrith tried to move votes towards Anxiety instead of looking to go after me while I was away. Is this a +EV move for a human?

There are an awful lot of questions I would like to ask the humans at the end of this game ...


I would love to answer them, but unfortunatly I'm dog food!

[SackAttack]

I would love to answer them, but unfortunatly I'm dog food!

Wolf food. And keep your stinkin' leashes away from us.

[Tyrith]

There's no way it's a +EV move for a human, because what if barkeep actually switches? It would make it a 4-4 tie involving a bad guy that could go either way easily and bring up all kinds of bad tiebreaker scenarios. Not giving out information and not rocking the boat when unnecessary is usually best for bad guys, especially with someone as in-depth as you ferreting out things.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, if you were the wizard would you accept a coin-flip to determine your fate (or that of your henchman) or would you out yourself?

I'm not sold on the tie strategy, but figured that putting the vote there would at least generate some discussion. We have 75 minutes to go here, so let's dig into this.
If I am a werewolf do I really think that 50/50 is the best chance we have at getting a wizard?

[saldana]

Re-reading from last night - Tyrith and AlanT both seemed pretty OK with the idea of a tie going into the vote. Obvious posturing by AlanT, unless both were bad guys ...

i thougth about this...i figure the wizard can only die if the pack alpha is a vote on him, and probably needs to have a percentage of the day's votes as well (i am 100% guessing about the second part).

therefore, it would make perfect sense for the last henchman and the wizard to get into a runoff where there was a very good chance that the variable laws would mean the alpha's vote may never be counted.

even if lathums vote had been on tyrith, unless it was the ONE vote that counted last night, it didnt kill him, meanwhile, an acutal tie vote without a tie breaker (which we apparently dont have) could have resulted in no lynch at all, giving the humans a free night kill.

[saldana]

i think we need to all vote for the same person, and since lathum, who until proven otherwise is the pack alpha, is on tyrith, i think that is where all the rest of us should be too.

[Barkeep49]

What day of the week was D3? Today is the latest vote I've cast all game and I've only been around a few days at lynch so I'm not sure that was a real possiblity (my moving a vote)

[SirFozzie]

(grins at reading some of the theories in this thread)

[saldana]

(grins at reading some of the theories in this thread)

please see the Star Wars game for lessons on how the DM is supposed to be quiet during the game:D

[Barkeep49]

i think we need to all vote for the same person, and since lathum, who until proven otherwise is the pack alpha, is on tyrith, i think that is where all the rest of us should be too.
So hoops you think there are two bad guys left, right? Or at least the possiblity there in. So if I'm the bad guys, why do I try and kill schmidty instead of you last night? Doesn't your living so damn long as the second most useful human role, after seer, suggest some evil on your part?

[Tyrith]

No matter what, you all have to kill me now. Lathum's vote is on me, and it isn't going anywhere. As you'll see, it's wrong, but it's okay, you have no way of knowing that now. You all know what I think now. I'm going to play some EQ now, enjoy the show :)

[Barkeep49]

Tyrith you think it's Sack? Or have we been completely led astray? I am always interested in getting the most out of good guys before we accidently chop them up. Of course I like getting the most out of bad guys too :)

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, the guys I have protected have both gotten a PM that let them know I was the one who protected them. Cronin and Schmidty have both posted this. So I think it is a pretty enormous stretch to suggest I'm playing as a bad guy.

I don't know if there are 1 or 2 left, but I don't think it helps the wolf cause to assume there is one left and that it must be one of the two guys we are targeting. We have no information to suggest there is just one left, as far as I can tell. I would hate to have victory snatched away from us because we were overconfident and careless at the end.

[SirFozzie]

please see the Star Wars game for lessons on how the DM is supposed to be quiet during the game:D

Do things my own way. Always have, always will :D

Besides, it's FUN!

[saldana]

No matter what, you all have to kill me now. Lathum's vote is on me, and it isn't going anywhere. As you'll see, it's wrong, but it's okay, you have no way of knowing that now. You all know what I think now. I'm going to play some EQ now, enjoy the show :)


i am now very sure in my vote....why would tyrith say that we have to kill him because lathum is voting him...we can still all vote for someone else except lathum, and unless that person is the wizard, that person will die...dont understand this post at all except for an attempt to guilt us off our votes.

[Barkeep49]

Ok that's good enough to clear hoops. SO then how to look fora second bad guy. Hmm

[saldana]

So hoops you think there are two bad guys left, right? Or at least the possiblity there in. So if I'm the bad guys, why do I try and kill schmidty instead of you last night? Doesn't your living so damn long as the second most useful human role, after seer, suggest some evil on your part?
this occured to me as well, but i think it was intentional...leaving hoops alive guarantees at some point, we will look at him and say exactly what you just said, and if we are all paranoid enough, we'll waste a vote and lynch him ourselves.

[saldana]

Ok that's good enough to clear hoops. SO then how to look fora second bad guy. Hmm
i guess you didnt look at my theory in post 2060 :(

[hoopsguy]

I'm expecting at some point that the humans will come after me, as my perceived trust level has increased over the last couple of days.
But with an alpha and a beta out there, there are certainly other impact roles to worry about instead of me.

I'm fine with a pile on Tyrith. I'm less than 100% convinced he is the wizard, but if he is not a henchman than I think it is increasingly likely that we are just facing the wizard. The options for two opponents are harder to wrap my head around with him not having one of the roles.

[Barkeep49]

I both read on it and commented on it, I believe.

[hoopsguy]

The super-majority to get the wizard seems plausible. And I don't think it matters if we are 4-3 or 6-1 against Tyrith.

Cronin said that they compelled his vote towards Lathum at one point, so if we are too close in margin we could get worked at the end. Not sure if this was fact or fiction (there were times when he was creative with the information he gave us) but I think it is another reason to avoid going to 4-3 vote count late.

UNVOTE SACKATTACK
VOTE TYRITH

[Schmidty]

Ok, this is the last time I have to vote before the deadline, so I'll go with what I had earlier. I'll be back after the deadline in an hour or so.:

Vote Tyrith

[hoopsguy]

Is it raining in Boston? Just checking ...

[Barkeep49]

You're such a smart alec.

[saldana]

watch the Law be least votes gets lynched

[hoopsguy]

Guilty as charged. But it doesn't mean that it isn't going to be a factor ...

[saldana]

wow....alone in the thread at the deadline...dont think ive ever seen that in WW before.

[hoopsguy]

I got to the point where I considered this a done deal, picked up my laptop, and moved into another room to watch the NBA Finals.

[saldana]

foz isnt even on the board right now

[SackAttack]

Mom guilted me into filling up her gas tank and making a dinner run for her, or I'd have been here.

"You've been driving my car while yours was in the shop and I don't feel like filling it up even though I need gas."

"...okay, Mom."

[SirFozzie]

Family business sorry.

The wizard waves his hands, and Tyrith sighs as he sees the hate in all your eyes.. "I guess I'll be joining you now, brother" he sighs, as you tear him apart.

Your eyes travel back and forth from the wizard to Tyrith..

[SirFozzie]

and back and forth..

and nothing happens.

You are disheartened. So Close.. yet so far.

Will another of you fall in the night?

[Barkeep49]

Lathum frankly at this point I resent your playing things so close to the vest if there was anything that could have been done here if you had told us.

[hoopsguy]

Sigh - couldn't be that easy.

[Barkeep49]

Let me change that a little. I don't resent it. But I am frustrated as our circles of trust have worked pretty well this game and Tyrith was, by the end of the day, the only one on the outside, and for good reason.

[Barkeep49]

This is all predicated on this meaning Tyrith is the wizard. Unless there's an alternative here.

[SirFozzie]

This is all predicated on this meaning Tyrith is the wizard. Unless there's an alternative here.

The Wizard is looking rather smug right now, so I don't think you got him.

[Schmidty]

Ok, I'm getting a bit.....worn out now.

[Barkeep49]

Oh so tyrith is dead? am i incopentent in my reading skills?

[hoopsguy]

SirFozzie, do we have a wolf corpse here? It sounds like it to me from "tear him apart" but some clarification would be nice, if you think it is appropriate ...

[SirFozzie]

Correct, hoops.

[Schmidty]

Lathum frankly at this point I resent your playing things so close to the vest if there was anything that could have been done here if you had told us.

Just curious as to what else he could have done today? He revealed his role. I believe him, and I hope my trust isn't misplaced.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah after rereading it I don't feel bad about that mistake.

[Barkeep49]

Just curious as to what else he could have done today? He revealed his role. I believe him, and I hope my trust isn't misplaced.
I was under the mistaken impression that we attempted to lynch Tyrith but were unable to because he was the wizard.

[SackAttack]

I was under the mistaken impression that we attempted to lynch Tyrith but were unable to because he was the wizard.

I had the same read on it. That was a weird lynch.

[saldana]

well, if it isnt sack, then someone has been playing us the entire time.

at first i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about flying though the first 1000 posts and missing what BK and i were talking about, but the more i thought about it, i realized he was here and comfortably playing while we were going back and forth with CW about the whole thing, including post numbers, but didnt say anything until well after CW was a snack.

any explanation for that Sack?

[SirFozzie]

Question for everyone: There are a dwindling amount of folks with Night actions. If I get them all, does anyone mind if I post em early? or would you prefer a full night of discussion?

[saldana]

post them early, please...night conversations are very limited...no one wants to create a target on themselves in case the humans havent sent something in.

[Schmidty]

Question for everyone: There are a dwindling amount of folks with Night actions. If I get them all, does anyone mind if I post em early? or would you prefer a full night of discussion?

I say just do it.

[Barkeep49]

PLEASE post early. Thank you.

[hoopsguy]

I don't have access to your PMs, but Sack's response didn't sound quite the same as the ones you two swapped. I was nervous about the two of you earlier in the game (that one was piggy-backing), but you have both backed each other pretty early and often.

Roll the actions as soon as you think it makes sense, SirFoz - no problems with a quicker night phase if the others don't complain.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, Anxiety - feel like giving a hint here?

[SackAttack]

well, if it isnt sack, then someone has been playing us the entire time.

at first i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about flying though the first 1000 posts and missing what BK and i were talking about, but the more i thought about it, i realized he was here and comfortably playing while we were going back and forth with CW about the whole thing, including post numbers, but didnt say anything until well after CW was a snack.

any explanation for that Sack?

Not sure what you mean. Post numbers fly all over the place in WW games, and that's especially true if you have analytical players such as hoops. I don't cross-reference them all, which is maybe why I'm not such an 'astute' player.

I told you before, I fairly flew through the back half of the pages I needed to catch up on before I started posting regularly. Looking for obvious things, not so much the subtle things. Subtle's easier to catch when you're immersed from the beginning, and not trying to catch up in an evening. If it had been a three-day break or something where I had more time to go through each page of posts, I would have responded sooner.

[SackAttack]

I say just do it.

+1

[SirFozzie]

Ok..

Thanks to the wizard for sending me his prospective action earlier today then.

You all sleep.. but it's not a strong sleep, the thoughts of the brothers Blade and Tyrith on your mind..

and when you wake up..

Hoopsguy has been reduced to a charred cinder. Apparently that was not enough for the mad wizard, as he has summoned a thousand fire ants and left them swarming over the corpse. You are filled with a furious resolve. This WILL be avenged!

[SackAttack]

Ok..

Thanks to the wizard for sending me his prospective action earlier today then.

You all sleep.. but it's not a strong sleep, the thoughts of the brothers Blade and Tyrith on your mind..

and when you wake up..

Hoopsguy has been reduced to a charred cinder. Apparently that was not enough for the mad wizard, as he has summoned a thousand fire ants and left them swarming over the corpse. You are filled with a furious resolve. This WILL be avenged!

Oh, shit. :(

I'm guessing hoops either couldn't protect himself, or he was protecting someone he thought was a more likely target.

[Alan T]

Hmm. Im not sure if Im ready for night actions yet... Let me get back to you on that!

:)

[hoopsguy]

I figured that was coming one of these nights ... good game, all.

[Alan T]

Alan, Anxiety - feel like giving a hint here?


Sure, ask me anything you want to know!

[Abe Sargent]

Alan, Anxiety - feel like giving a hint here?


I love you.


-Anxiety

[Schmidty]

Damnit.

[saldana]

Not sure what you mean. Post numbers fly all over the place in WW games, and that's especially true if you have analytical players such as hoops. I don't cross-reference them all, which is maybe why I'm not such an 'astute' player.

I told you before, I fairly flew through the back half of the pages I needed to catch up on before I started posting regularly. Looking for obvious things, not so much the subtle things. Subtle's easier to catch when you're immersed from the beginning, and not trying to catch up in an evening. If it had been a three-day break or something where I had more time to go through each page of posts, I would have responded sooner.


what i mean is...you joined the game as the first post of page 25...by the end of that page you said you had flown through 25 pages of posts, so i could understand how you missed something that was on page 16. but coffee didnt die until the bottom of page 34, and there were a number of conversations the day he died, including barkeep copying the actual post from page 16, about what the code was. at that time you never seized the opportunity to say, "hey, this applies to me too". it wasnt until well after alan got whacked that you suddenly deciphered the code, almost another 10 pages later.

and nice game hoops.

[saldana]

Ok..

Thanks to the wizard for sending me his prospective action earlier today then.




ummm, at face value this is pretty revealing, since everyone still alive was here except lathum?!

[SirFozzie]

It means that the wizard sent me an action earlier today, "if I survive, this is what I want to do" :P :)

[Coffee Warlord]

I love you.


-Anxiety

I love you!?!? What bloody good is that?

[Abe Sargent]

I love you!?!? What bloody good is that?


I love you too, don't worry. My forum love is not exclusive.

-Anxiety

[SackAttack]

what i mean is...you joined the game as the first post of page 25...by the end of that page you said you had flown through 25 pages of posts, so i could understand how you missed something that was on page 16. but coffee didnt die until the bottom of page 34, and there were a number of conversations the day he died, including barkeep copying the actual post from page 16, about what the code was. at that time you never seized the opportunity to say, "hey, this applies to me too". it wasnt until well after alan got whacked that you suddenly deciphered the code, almost another 10 pages later.

and nice game hoops.

In re-reading, several of the pages between 25 and 34 have no posts from me whatsoever, and additionally many of the posts are early morning posts, when I'd still be asleep.

In fact, with regard to me "suddenly deciphering the code," he was pretty point-blank at one point, and I never saw that until the post of yours I'm quoting inspired me to re-read the pertinent section of the thread. Now, if I were trying to pull a fast one, wouldn't that have been the time for me to go "Yeah, me too!"?

Just seems like waiting so long if I'm trying to pull one over would increase the risk of getting caught, not decrease it. No percentage there for me to attempt something like that this late in the game as the wizard (as it's already established that I'm not a henchman).

[Tyrith]

Folks, it was fun, and good luck :)

[Lathum]

OK< the obvious choice seems to be sack but I am starting to grow very suspiscous of barkeep and how much he is doubting me when it is pretty obvious I am telling the truth.

IF I was the wizard I would have nothing to gain by making this play at this point.

[Lathum]

dola- I hope we get lucky today because I have a feeling hoops was guarding me last night and even thought schmidty is our backup I don't trust fozzie to make it easy on us if I am killed.

[Barkeep49]

Lathum I'm over doubting you.

[saldana]

hey guys, just wanted to let you know i am working a different shift today, and wont have board access til i get home at 3:30.

[Lathum]

hey guys, just wanted to let you know i am working a different shift today, and wont have board access til i get home at 3:30.
thats right baby! World cup soccer, beer and poker all weekend!!

[Lathum]

dola- Kind of quiet around here, are we all of the opinion we should vote sack attack?

Also, I am willing to play the weekend if you guys want to.

[Barkeep49]

I'm not sure what I'm the opinion of.

[Lathum]

OK, I'll throw it out there

VOTE SACK ATTACK

[Alan T]

I am of the opinion that I am tired of hotel rooms and forget what my bed at home looks like!

[saldana]

slowest. day. ever.

vote sackattack

[Poli]

/me waves. Hey guys.

[Alan T]

hiya Ardent!

[SackAttack]

The wizard must be laughing his ass off right now.

[hoopsguy]

Will someone please kill the wizard?

k, thx

[Barkeep49]

Ok I suppose I have to go with Sack Attack. He makes the most sense, I suppose. I am not really that thrilled with it, but can come up with absolutely no alternative that is any better.

Vote Sack Attack

[Schmidty]

Well, I don't see any other alternative other than to vote for Sack.

Vote Sack Attack

[Barkeep49]

I know this isn't a rel action, but for effect:

Vote end day

[Barkeep49]

I will likely be out until an hour or so before lynch.

[SirFozzie]

I am not feeling well (Bad food I think), but it's looking overwhelming. If I can't make it, I will PM one of the players the results to post for me.

[SackAttack]

It's a shame nobody's around on Fridays. The wrong choice is getting made and there's no discussion taking place.

[Tyrith]

Don't think it's as much nobody being around as that all the talkative players are dead and there are only five people left in the game, anyway.

[SirFozzie]

Passed on the results on if you guys get the wizard or if you don't.. so just in case I'm not here at 10, someone will post the results :)

[Schmidty]

It's a shame nobody's around on Fridays. The wrong choice is getting made and there's no discussion taking place.

There's nothing to talk about. The facts are the facts. Unless we make a completely guess on either of the other two guys, you're the guy.

[SackAttack]

There's nothing to talk about. The facts are the facts. Unless we make a completely guess on either of the other two guys, you're the guy.

So I guess you're going to be making a guess on Monday.

[Schmidty]

So I guess you're going to be making a guess on Monday.

Give me a concrete reason not to vote for you. You haven't done that yet. Tell me who you think I should vote for and why.

[SackAttack]

As far as a concrete reason, I dunno what to tell you, other than that I'm a wolf.

Cronin said I came up wolf when he sniffed me.

saldana and Barkeep accepted me, but have since given way to paranoia.

I'd post my role as proof, but that's not the done thing in werewolf.

As far as who I'd vote for, I really don't know. I want to believe saldana and barkeep are on the level, but it's possible one of them is just paranoid and the other is playing off of that.

That leaves you and Lathum. I think you're straight, Schmidty.

Lathum, though, I have to wonder why he would reveal as the Wolf Boss. The only way that makes sense to me is if he's immune to the night kill, and thus not afraid of the wizard knowing who he is, and is hoping to draw the wizard out with his reveal...but I can't imagine why that would be his play.

What would the wizard gain by responding to him? Nobody left, to my knowledge, has any seer capabilities, so why wouldn't the wizard just lay low and try not to attract attention? With the bodyguard dead, he could pick folks off one by one. Get a lynch tonight, a night kill, and suddenly we're down to three people. If two humans are left, that's game. If there's only one, one wrong guess tomorrow, and that's game.

Hiding in plain sight. He's been significantly absent the last couple of days, and despite his role reveal, hasn't contributed to our search for the wizard in that time.

As to why the alpha wolf hasn't spoken up if Lathum's not on the up-and-up, possibly the same deal. We don't know whether the alpha wolf is susceptible to night kills, and as a result, we don't know what dynamic would evolve if both roles were known. Is there the possibility that the wizard knowing the alpha wolf's identity could cost us, and can we win without the alpha?

It makes sense to me that he'd lie low at this point, because even with a body advantage, I'm not sure the potential gain from challenging the reveal yet outweighs the risk of challenging it too soon.

That would be my vote.

vote Lathum

[SackAttack]

Well, wonderful to see that you bailed after asking for 'a concrete reason,' Schmidty.

Good luck Monday. You'll need it.

[st.cronin]

I'm here for Foz, who's out chasing girls. Sorry I'm a few minutes late with this.

My vote count is:

Sack Attack - 4 (everybody but Sack)
Lathum - 1 (Sack)

The image of the wizard totals them up, and SackAttack whines softly under his breath.. the wizard starts giggling again, for what seems like minutes..

Finally, one wolf braver then the others, snaps.. "So.. aren't you going to make us kill him?"

This seems intensely funny to the wizard and the laughter grows deeper. Finally, the wizard calms down from his near hysterics. "Oh go ahead, do it yourself" he chortles..

The group attacks Sack Attack.. and pass through him! Each failed attack brings new gales of hysterical laughter to the wizard.. it seems you have found your wizard in wolves clothing.. but as much as you want to tear his throat out, you can't get him!

As night falls, the wizard's unabated laughter chases you all back to your warrens.. will the wizard get away with his life after killing so many of the wolves?

Night actions due to SIR FOZZIE by 9AM Saturday.

[hoopsguy]

Just checking - actions due Saturday AM?

Not that I'm looking to drag this out, but ...

[Barkeep49]

Right. SO all those things I said yesterday about Lathum? True today.

[Schmidty]

Well, wonderful to see that you bailed after asking for 'a concrete reason,' Schmidty.

Good luck Monday. You'll need it.

Sorry, I my wife RAN OUT OF GAS (how the fuck does that happen) while in heavy traffic, and I had to go rescue her. I had no choice.

[Schmidty]

I'm here for Foz, who's out chasing girls. Sorry I'm a few minutes late with this.

My vote count is:

Sack Attack - 4 (everybody but Sack)
Lathum - 1 (Sack)

The image of the wizard totals them up, and SackAttack whines softly under his breath.. the wizard starts giggling again, for what seems like minutes..

Finally, one wolf braver then the others, snaps.. "So.. aren't you going to make us kill him?"

This seems intensely funny to the wizard and the laughter grows deeper. Finally, the wizard calms down from his near hysterics. "Oh go ahead, do it yourself" he chortles..

The group attacks Sack Attack.. and pass through him! Each failed attack brings new gales of hysterical laughter to the wizard.. it seems you have found your wizard in wolves clothing.. but as much as you want to tear his throat out, you can't get him!

As night falls, the wizard's unabated laughter chases you all back to your warrens.. will the wizard get away with his life after killing so many of the wolves?

Night actions due to SIR FOZZIE by 9AM Saturday.

Thanks for running the game Foz, but this is getting more randomly ridiculous than my game. It's basically a crap shoot, and that's depressing.

Then again, I'm probably just stupid. Seriously. I am the admitted worst player ever, so I feel bad for my fellow wolves.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I would have to agree that falls in the no choice category. There's no getting around that.

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for running the game Foz, but this is getting more randomly ridiculous than my game. It's basically a crap shoot, and that's depressing.

Then again, I'm probably just stupid. Seriously. I am the admitted worst player ever, so I feel bad for my fellow wolves.
It's not a crapshoot at all. We just don't know what to do. Don't worry. You'll find out after Sack kills Lathum.

[SirFozzie]

I will reveal the situation depending on the night actions.

The Wolves have won.

The only question is what type of win they have.

[SirFozzie]

Dola: They can have a light, medium or complete victory, depending on what happens.

[SirFozzie]

Lathum: Your decision ASAP please.

[Schmidty]

See, I am so clueless, I won and I still didn't know it.

I recommend that no one trusts my idiocy in future games.

[SirFozzie]

While we wait, the listening of rules and Roles.

MAD WIZARD- You have been hired by several towns to eliminate the Werewolves before they come to your area. But since you think the result is a foregone conclusion, you've decided to have a little fun. You're going to bring your two henchmen Lucky and Unlucky (who control the balance of luck in their hands, ask them more about their roles), and you're going to do unto the werewolves what they've done to so many towns. Make them play their own game.

Special Abilities:

Well Nigh Invincible- You may be Mad, but you're not crazy. Even if Lynched or targeted by a Night Action that would normally kill you, you're still in the game (although your role would be known at this point. There is only one role in the game that can permanently kill you, and that's the Wolf Boss (the Pack Alpha). Once the two roles of Mad Wizard and Pack Alpha are revealed, either Boss can challenge the other to a duel (and there's no backing out of that!) and the loser will be quite thoroughly dead. :D

Spells- You can cast each spell ONCE during the game, and one spell per night action:

Reveal Role: You can cast this spell on any opposing player during the game and learn their special role.

Compel Vote: You cast this spell on any one player, and force them to vote for whoever you choose. During the day that they are compelled they may NOT let anyone know they are compelled, however, that night they can reveal that a spell was cast on them to force their vote.

Flight- If things are not going your way, you have a Flight Spell that will get you out of dodge fast, to gather more help to burn the wolves out. This will remove you from the game, but reduce the type of victories the Wolves can earn. You automatically use this spell if you are revealed as the Wizard and both your henchmen are killed.

Double Shot: You may use this spell to attempt to remove TWO wolves from the game during the night instead of one. But the problem is, due to the vagaries of the spell, if ONE of your targets is protected, then the 2nd one is as well! SO it's kinda a double or nothing effort.


LUCKY - You are one of a set of twin brothers, trained by the Mad Wizard to control the balance of Luck and fate between you. You were deemed the Lucky Brother, you've had nothing but good fortune happen to you. For every good fortune you've had however, the Unlucky brother has received ill fortune. It's ok though, the Mad Wizard says that things would be a lot worse if you both weren't under his care.. if one of you should die.. well then, all the rules will go out of the window.

Special Abilities:

Lucky: You automatically win all ties in voting.
Balance of Luck: If you or your brother is Killed in any way, the normal voting rules will go out the window, replaced by the random vagaries of fate. This can lead to one of six different rules for lynching. It will change from day to day. If both brothers are eliminated, then standard lynching rules will resume.

1) Person with the LEAST votes gets lynched
2) person who was voted for FIRST gets lynched
3) Person who was voted for LAST gets lynched
4) Person who voted FIRST gets Lynched
5) Person who voted LAST gets Lynched
6) Standard Lynching rules.


Unlucky - You are one of a set of twin brothers, trained by the Mad Wizard to control the balance of Luck and fate between you. You were deemed the Unlucky Brother, you've had nothing but bad fortune happen to you. For every ill fortune you've had however, the Lucky brother has received good fortune. It's ok though, the Mad Wizard says that things would be a lot worse if you both weren't under his care.. if one of you should die.. well then, all the rules will go out of the window.

Special Abilities:
Unlucky: You automatically lose all ties in voting.
Balance of Luck: If you or your brother is Killed in any way, the normal voting rules will go out the window, replaced by the random vagaries of fate. This can lead to one of six different rules for lynching. It will change from day to day. If both brothers are eliminated, then standard lynching rules will resume.

1) Person with the LEAST votes gets lynched
2) person who was voted for FIRST gets lynched
3) Person who was voted for LAST gets lynched
4) Person who voted FIRST gets Lynched
5) Person who voted LAST gets Lynched
6) Standard Lynching rules.

PACK ALPHA - You are the Alpha of the Pack, the Boss. What you say goes. Your pack was defeated recently in a battle and you gathered the remnants of several clans together to reform and prepare for more attacks on the humans. You agreed to play the Mad Wizard's game only so you could get close enough to him to sniff him out and tear out his throat. After all, he doesn't know that you're immune to his magic, does he? And in this case what he doesn't know.. will hurt him. Badly.

Special Abilities

Immune to Magic: If the Wizard tries any of his tricks against you, he won't be able to focus his magic on you.

Duel to the Death: What the Wizard doesn't know is, by pack rules, you can declare a duel to the death with any of the members of the pack at any time. By declaring this, the Wizard will be forced to fight for his life, without any of his spells, and then we'll see who wins then.

Note: You can declare this as a night action from any time the Wizard has been revealed. The next day, instead of a lynch, the two of you will fight, and one of you ain't comin back. (This is the only way to kill the Mad Wizard permanently). If you declare this option, there will be PM's explaining how the Duel shall work.

LAWBRINGER- You have the strange ability of knowing how fate works its ways on your friends. YOu sensed something foul on the henchmen that the Wizard brung.. they have been enchanted so heavily that Fate itself will act in odd ways around them, especially if the balance they represent is disturbed.

Special Abilities:

Sniff out the Henchmen. Each night, you may nominate one person to check to determine if they are one of the Wizard's henchment. NOTE: You can only find the HENCHMEN, not the Wizard.

Bringer of Laws: If the lynching laws change due to the death of one of the henchmen, an hour before the votes are tabulated, you will know the lynching law in effect. It will be one of these six rules:

1) Person with the LEAST votes gets lynched
2) person who was voted for FIRST gets lynched
3) Person who was voted for LAST gets lynched
4) Person who voted FIRST gets Lynched
5) Person who voted LAST gets Lynched
6) Standard Lynching rules.

Note: You can announce the law publically, at the risk of the wizard and the henchmen focusing their wrath on you ;)

PACK BETA- You have been brought up to support the Pack Alpha in all ways. You don't have his charisma or his leadership abilitiy, but it should get you through this, if he should fall in battle, you will take over for him.

If the Pack Alpha dies, you will inherit his abilities. (However, the type of victories the Wolves can earn will be reduced)

WOLF BROTHERS- You were part of the same litter. In battle, you always fought together, harrying much larger foes. You are the only two wolves remaining from your original pack, but that's ok.. you still have each other.

Special Ability: Up until Night 0 you may communicate with each other privately via PM. After Night 0, you may send 1 PM to me to be passed on to the other Wolf brother per Night Action. That's one each, so one person can PM something, and the other person can PM me the reply to pass on.

PROTECTOR WOLF: For years you guarded your Pack's Alpha, making sure enemies didn't gang up on him.Unfortunately, he disregarded your advice one time to many and attacked a knight head on, and was killed when the knight's squire struck him with a lance. Now you come searching for a new pack and a new Alpha to protect.

Special Ability: Protection. You may nominate one person to protect each night, and if they are attacked, you will know about it and drive the attackers off.

BRUTAL WOLF: You live for battle. You hate hiding in the weak human's towns, destroying them within. A wolf wins every battle, except his last. If they try to take you out, you'll make em pay.

Special Ability: RETRIBUTIVE STRIKE: If someone lynches you, you can nominate any one left in the game and kill them before you die.

Wolf: Well, you don't have any special abilities that you know of.. but that's ok your votes could be more important then any special role could ever be

1.Anxiety -- Unlucky
2.Barkeep49 - Wolf
3.Qwikshot - Brutal Wolf
4. AlanT -- Lucky
5. Mckerney - Wolf
6. Saldana - Wolf
7. Lathum - Pack Alpha
8. st cronin - Law Giver
9. path12 - Wolf
10. ardent enthusiast -- Mad Wizard
11 Tyrith -- Wolf Brother
12.Schmidty -- Pack Beta
13. dubb93 - Wolf
14.Hoopsguy -- Protector Wolf
15.tanglewood -- Wolf
16.Blade6119 -- Wolf Brother

[SirFozzie]

and explanations:

The first "no kill" night was the Wizard (AE at the time), trying to Double Shot Blade and Lathum. As I said, it's double or nothing, and since they suggested Lathum.. it turned out to be nothing. Big turning point.

The other two No Kill Nights were hoops successfully saving folks as the Protector Wolf.

As cronin said, the wizard compelled his vote.

Saldana's building of the code was enough to intrigue the wizard into casting the Role Reveal spell on him.

[Barkeep49]

Good game everyone. It's nice to be alive at the end as a human. Very nice indeed. I had a lot of fun with this one Fozzie, all things considered.

[Barkeep49]

Also hencemen had no special ablities? COuld the baddies talk amongst themselves? It must have really killed ardent to withdraw from a game where he was the mack daddy of evil.

[SirFozzie]

Thanks BK. The Henchmen abilities were to win/lose all ties automatically, and that their deaths would change the rules.

Yup, the baddies could talk to each other.

I'm not happy with my job with this game, but I hope you all enjoyed it.

[hoopsguy]

If/when AE checks in, I'm wondering what his logic was for deciding between mckerney and me at the end of Day 2. Three wolves had shifted the votes over to me. That really messed up my analysis for the next couple of days and kept me at 50/50 on Tyrith/Sack yesterday. So I think it was a very effective play by him.

Plus the late posters for Night 0 - Tyrith, mckerney, and Tanglewood - were all wolves.

And none of the wolves voted for either Blade or Tyrith on Day 1 - the two leading vote getters. Every one of my theories early in the game sucked.

[Barkeep49]

Fozzie I think you should feel very responsible for the weather. I wonder why you have been so cheap as to not buy a weather net to ensure that rain and flooding does not disrupt your WW posting. Sheesh.

Also could I suggest you make the topic Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over) Page 45? People do go back and read old games and something is lost if you know who wins before starting to read the thread, I feel. Just my two cents.

[SirFozzie]

Hoops, I wasn't privvy to all the baddies discussion (usually they'd forward me the last email with "We want to do this") But I think the way you played made you a safe guy, after all, you were pointing the fingers as the other good guys.

Of course, nearer to the end of the game, you had MORE then made up for it.

[Barkeep49]

I'm pretty pleased with this game. Except for tyrith, I don't really feel like I was ever too off base in what I believed.

[Barkeep49]

Well not to mention hoops was a lightening rod. I would agree with the Foz that your TWO successful protects makes you a might effective bg overall, even if your play wasn't perfect.

[SirFozzie]

Fozzie I think you should feel very responsible for the weather. I wonder why you have been so cheap as to not buy a weather net to ensure that rain and flooding does not disrupt your WW posting. Sheesh.

Also could I suggest you make the topic Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over) Page 45? People do go back and read old games and something is lost if you know who wins before starting to read the thread, I feel. Just my two cents.

Not Just that, barkeep, but I think the "Screwy Voting Rules" is something I won't repeat in the future. it sucked all the air out of the game.

What I was trying to do was make EVERY vote important, usually asyou get later in the game, you get folks who run roughshod over the other voters. Every person I showed the rules too thought it was a wonderful (and wonderfully evil) twist. Instead, it made people too cautious, and killed discussion

[hoopsguy]

The only problem was that once Cronin went down we were left completely to the whimsy of fate - I was waiting for something to break that would let us know where to go on the 2nd day of random vote patterns.

[SirFozzie]

I thought about putting hints in butwas trying to figure out how to handle it. Not completely thought out I guess.

[Barkeep49]

I think it's an interesting idea to build a game around, the idea that every vote is important. It was something that I attempted to do with my To Crown a King Game. I think this approached the problem from a different perspective and it's a good thing.

[hoopsguy]

I also think it would have been a different deal if we had been thrown into disorder earlier in the game - would Cronin have revealed that he had the key? If people didn't know there was a different way that voting would proceed, would they have acted differently?

Circles of trust became pretty powerful down the stretch.

[Schmidty]

I am like a drunken man stumbling into the Superbowl Champion's lockerroom, and pretending to be the kicker who won the game at last second, but really just accidentally knocked him unconscious with his rancid breath.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that at the point the game was thrown into disorder, the good guys had things pretty firmly in hand. If it had gone in earlier, which was the idea in many ways, it would have made things very different. Perhaps having a different triggering mechanism, or even having it be the starting situtation, the world in chaos, makes things more interesting. I don't think having players be cautious with their votes is an inherently bad thing.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

There's a reason, I play so defensive and quiet at the beginning. You have all witnessed it.

[Barkeep49]

I am like a drunken man stumbling into the Superbowl Champion's lockerroom, and pretending to be the kicker who won the game at last second, but really just accidentally knocked him unconscious with his rancid breath.
Schmidty: I don't think you give yourself enough credit.

[SirFozzie]

I have to admit, for the first time running one of thesew, I was tempted to monkey with an important rule. Alan T did a wonderful job of throwing people off .. he knew that the rules wouldn't change until he died, and bamboozled everyone.. and the die picked him out.

if it hadn't picked him ,and he could have proved his role (remember, he was Lucky, he won all ties), I think the Wizard and henchmen would have won.

When he fell, the game was pretty much decided, except for some early paranoia.

[Tyrith]

I'm pretty pleased with this game. Except for tyrith, I don't really feel like I was ever too off base in what I believed.

Pretty much everyone spent three or four days being wrong about me this game. It was amusing and scary at the same time.

I have to agree that the way the "every vote should count" mechanic worked was a little too random. In the end it actually meant that showing up early and staying late matters, and the votes in the middle didn't. However, it was an interesting twist, and it did keep me alive another day, so I can't complain too much :)

Imagine how badly this would have gone if Day Six the vote goes normally. Alan and I would have tied, I would be dead via his tiebreaker, validating his role, and completely skewering the game. Of course, the same can be said of hoops successful protect of schmidty Night 6 -- why did you go with him, anyway?

[hoopsguy]

Night 6 protect - lucky guess, for the most part. But I believed his role reveal so I tried to pick someone whose role I didn't want to see go by the wayside.

[Alan T]

Was very fun game for me fozzie.. I don't think anyone really realizes how close this game was to going the other way.

We made 2 mistakes at night, and then had 3 pieces of bad luck, and hoops made 2 good plays.

I pretty much had everything figured out by day 4 or 5 I think, so it was all about trying to figure out how to win the end game, which we didnt :)

[SirFozzie]

BTW, hoops when you kept protecting Lathum (amazing that many people picked up his Alpha role, and others didn't) I wanted to scream at you. "NO! He's already safe!" :D

[Tyrith]

What mistakes, Alan?

[Barkeep49]

It kind of concerns me to hear that the baddies feel like they were so close. I was relieved to have a game where the good guys won fairly easily after the baddies coasting so much as of late.

[SackAttack]

Even once Alan died, when saldana and barkeep accepted me, I thought I had a shot. I was hoping to get Lathum lynched, then night-kill Schmidty. Since y'all couldn't have lynched me, that basically would've been game.

I just think it's funny that the role sparking the code was just vanilla wolf.

[Barkeep49]

Well having reread the PM, I feel stupid having accepted you. But I like the fact that I was appropriately skeptical about you. Though I was too skeptical about CW, as the case was.