WW Amazing Race - Game Over (Moles Win & Team Reebok Wins)

[mauchow]

It looks like I need one vote swayed..

If I could only see the future.

[Autumn]

Remember guys, the vote deadline is 10 EST, it's just the race deadline that is 9 EST, I believe.

[Autumn]

WEll, mauboy, NTN is my teammate, so I'm going to move my vote and hope to bury you. If you've got something important to say, don't wait too long, as I'm either going to vote you or try to get another candidate going (how about Chief who seemed to lose a lot of voters real quick).

[GoldenEagle]

I don't mind justifying mine, I just don't want to seem like I'm lobbying for it in case it's a huge fail :p Lathum in post #170 and Mauboy in post #171 and #172 is kinda weird... both emphasizing how random their picks are and then mauboy's "oh shit" post like he screwed something up. I'm sure at this point it's nothing but it seems like as good a premise as I have right now, much better than just picking a name at random. I assume the run after than is because other people saw it and thought it was a bit weird too.

I may be going after this one particular angle too hard and if mauboy is a roled villager like he claims then I'm probably going to pay for it with my life tomorrow, just struck me as odd and I have nothing else to go on...

That sequence was a bit odd. I noticed that as well.

[mauchow]

That sequence was a bit odd. I noticed that as well.

As I already mentioned... I had my post ready to go and a customer walked in and decided to sit and talk at my desk for the next 45 minutes which of course I missed out on posting before the vote.. I guess I kinda freaked out over being the second voter when it probably wasn't so bad initially.

Autumn, I wouldn't want to vote for my partner either, but that doesn't mean hes not a wolf.

[Autumn]

No, I don't know if NTN is a wolf, but I don't know if you're a wolf, and I have no reason to ruin my chances in the game in order to pick him instead of you.

[mauchow]

WEll, mauboy, NTN is my teammate, so I'm going to move my vote and hope to bury you. If you've got something important to say, don't wait too long, as I'm either going to vote you or try to get another candidate going (how about Chief who seemed to lose a lot of voters real quick).

That would be an alternative that I could live with as it seemed to be something that would have in the end worked last game. But I would be heartbroken to see an excellent villager go if he turns out to be a villager(Chief)

[Autumn]

Well, I will check in later hopefully but I have to move my vote for now to help my teammate. I'm too psyched about this game to get hamstrung this early.

<b>UNVOTE JAG
VOTE MAUBOY1</b>

[bhlloy]

Realistically what are the advantages behind playing as a team for the Race and the Werewolf portions of the game? Beyond it's day 1 and voting with your teammate or to keep him in the game is as good a strategy as any other?

[ntndeacon]

I think that regardless the werewolf vote then the player is still in the other half until his team loses

[GoldenEagle]

Realistically what are the advantages behind playing as a team for the Race and the Werewolf portions of the game? Beyond it's day 1 and voting with your teammate or to keep him in the game is as good a strategy as any other?

There is no advantage. I won't hesitate to throw my teammate under the bus if I feel like he is a wolf. I think, and others have stated, that the Amazing Race portion could really skew voting records down the line.

[hoopsguy]

I'm wondering if there are some reading comprehension issues going on here.

The first post on this page (50/page view for me) seems kinda important. People may take it at face value or not, but are people really ignoring it entirely? It has been up for 20+ minutes and not one comment about it?

[ntndeacon]

I went back and looked at the other great game with small teams playing at the same time as Werewolfs...(i.e. the Olympics) We got swept and all the wolves lasted til the end.

[ntndeacon]

Unvote mau
vote JAG

[Darth Vilus]

I'm wondering if there are some reading comprehension issues going on here.

The first post on this page (50/page view for me) seems kinda important. People may take it at face value or not, but are people really ignoring it entirely? It has been up for 20+ minutes and not one comment about it?

I don't get what you mean

[Danny]

He means Mauboy hinted at being the seer

[GoldenEagle]

I'm wondering if there are some reading comprehension issues going on here.

The first post on this page (50/page view for me) seems kinda important. People may take it at face value or not, but are people really ignoring it entirely? It has been up for 20+ minutes and not one comment about it?

It sounds to me like a desperation move, but my vote is on ntn at this point so I can't move it off of him and help mauboy.

[GoldenEagle]

I should have stated that even though it sounds like a desperate play, we need to reconsider and look at lynching someone else. I just hate day one votes. Even though we had some vote shifting, there is no real evidence of anyone being a wolf.

[Darth Vilus]

Ah gotcha. I agree with GE (and that's rare), desperation move.

[Danny]

It's a large game, we'll have plenty of time to lynch him if he's lying. It's not worth the risk lynching him day 1.

[EagleFan]

Putting the results together.

[Darth Vilus]

it's deadline for the race part now yeah?

[mauchow]

It is what is. I am what I am.

Ah gotcha. I agree with GE (and that's rare), desperation move.

[Darth Vilus]

Nvrm

[mauchow]

Since ntn pulled off me I'll pull off him if there are any other suggestions. I am open going Chief or JAG or even someone else if we can swing it in a hurry.

[mauchow]

Nvrm

What does that mean?

[Danny]

Unvote ntn
Vote CrimsonFox

Im trying to get a different second candidate here and picked someone who is around

[Darth Vilus]

i was reffering to my deadline question

[mauchow]

unvote ntn
vote crimson

whatever.. something different than is already up there.

[Chief Rum]

Since ntn pulled off me I'll pull off him if there are any other suggestions. I am open going Chief or JAG or even someone else if we can swing it in a hurry.

Well, I'm a villager, so lynching me does no good. So I'll make a move to hopefully help you make your choice.

UNVOTE MAUBOY1
VOTE JAG

[CrimsonFox]

Unvote ntn
Vote CrimsonFox

Im trying to get a different second candidate here and picked someone who is around

geez, and people bitched at that kind of metagaming last game :P
And technically that's 4th candidate.

[EagleFan]

it's deadline for the race part now yeah?

yep. Calculated the results, starting the write up in a couple minutes.

[GoldenEagle]

unvote ntn
vote crimson

whatever.. something different than is already up there.

You mentioned trying to put votes on Chief/JAG but then decide to switch and go after Crimson Fox? That is an odd vote. I understand you are just trying to survive at this point, but why not drum up support for candidate who has more than one vote?

[Danny]

Not meta gaming, just picking someone who will have a chance to defend themselves

[mauchow]

You mentioned trying to put votes on Chief/JAG but then decide to switch and go after Crimson Fox? That is an odd vote. I understand you are just trying to survive at this point, but why not drum up support for candidate who has more than one vote?
By my calculation everyone had one vote.. Is that not accurate?

[Danny]

Uh you realize Jag had no votes when mauboy voted crimson right?

[Danny]

I take that back, he had one vote, the same number as crimson

[mauchow]

Well, hopefully this doesn't cost the villagers as much as it probably will.

[cougarfreak]

Any vote counts out there?

[Autumn]

It isn't true that no one commented on mau's post. I pointedly asked him to give something more definitive if he expected people to move their vote. If people are moving to a viable candidate I'll move. I certainly hope someone scans him tonight however.

<b>unvote mauboy1</b>

[Autumn]

I guess I'll go back to my original vote, as he's got a couple now.

<b>vote JAG</b>

[EagleFan]

The teams begin the race and you can see a little confusion for some while others jump right into the task at hand.

Team One scrambles off to find a rental car and begin to drive towards LAX.

Team Three distances themselves from the group. They head into Polo Towers and use the services inside to book their flight through to Rio.

Team Four goes right to the airport and books a flight through LAX to Rio.

Team Five is last seen hailing a cab.

Team Six seems to be enjoying the time on camera but are uncertain of what approach to take. They saw Team One getting a car and decide to follow suit.

Team Seven feels that the best way to get to LAX is to begin walking? Soon they start to hitchhike and are last seen getting into a stranger's car.

Team Eight, already known as the Rebok-UnderArmour Ultra Team also find a car and drive towards LAX.

Team Nine, the "Pair of Amazing Nuts" (as dubbed by Team Four?) goes staight to the Mandalay Bay and rents a car to go to LAX.

Team Ten is quick to get to the airport in Vegas and will fly thought LAX to Rio. They are flirting all the way.

Team Two struggles a bit as they argue all the way to the airport.

Team Five is seen getting out of their cab at the airport in Vegas.

The teams are on their way....

Driving to LAX...
Darth Vilus / bhlloy
mauboy1 / Danny
Autumn / ntndeacon
cougarfreak / PackerFanatic

Flying to LAX...
MartinD / saldana
Lathum / The Jackal
JAG / mckerney
GoldenEagle / CrimsonFox
Chief Rum / hoopsguy

Hitchiking to LAX...
Zinto / Passacaglia

[Danny]

I believe its Mauboy 7, Ntn 6, Jag 3, Crimson 2

[mauchow]

i am feeding the baby in one arm, its hard enough to keep up with the votes at this point.. where are we at?

[Darth Vilus]

Autumn that post doesn't make a lick of sense

[EagleFan]

http://www.visitingdc.com/images/lax-airport-address.jpg

[mauchow]

The next flight didn't leave for 24 hours I hope! DRIVING FOR THE WIN!

[Autumn]

Autumn that post doesn't make a lick of sense

What?

[Danny]

No it doesn't. If Mauboy is not the seer, he certainly shouldnt be scanned as the real seer would already know he's lying.

[Autumn]

Do you guys think the only role in the game is the seer? There's lots of roles mauboy could have that would make him think we shouldn't lynch him. In addition there were lots of wolves mauboy could be.

[saldana]

ok, this F'n sucks, but its Werewolf first and the amazing race second, and if it were the other way around, i would expect the same result

MartinD wanted to let me know that he is Russell, but in doing so, also told me he is a wolf....i wasnt going to out him because hes my partner, but any wolf worth his salt will kill me tonight to protect martin (who i dont event think knows because of what time i was able to read his PM)

the wolves were warned to be careful

we will likely not be getting along the rest of the race after this

unvote NTN
vote MartinD

[Danny]

The only role he is hinting at is seer. There are only three villager roles.

[Danny]

Unvote Crimson
Vote MartinD

[Danny]

Unvote Crimson
Vote MartinD

[Autumn]

Wow,

<b>unvote jAG
vote martinD</b>

[Darth Vilus]

It isn't true that no one commented on mau's post. I pointedly asked him to give something more definitive if he expected people to move their vote. If people are moving to a viable candidate I'll move. I certainly hope someone scans him tonight however.

unvote mauboy1

Exactly Danny

1) If he's lying the real seer would automatically know
2) You're unvoting him because he might be the seer but you hope the real seer scans him tonight? How can you possibly explain that reasoning?

[Danny]

Wait, although Russell could be a villlager

[Danny]

Saldana, did he send you a message by mistake or did he just openly tell you he was Russell?

[Autumn]

Exactly Danny

1) If he's lying the real seer would automatically know
2) You're unvoting him because he might be the seer but you hope the real seer scans him tonight? How can you possibly explain that reasoning?

I unvoted him because he hinted he had a role, not because I thought he was the seer.

Going back I see there was a second post that you guys must be referring to, suggesting he was the seer. I only noticed his first post, where he said he would reveal his role in a half an hour.

[Darth Vilus]

yeah there were a few roles which could either be village or wolf (martin D)

And he is hinting at seer, not BG or something (Mauboy)

[Danny]

I unvoted him because he hinted he had a role, not because I thought he was the seer.

Going back I see there was a second post that you guys must be referring to, suggesting he was the seer. I only noticed his first post, where he said he would reveal his role in a half an hour.

Oh, yes, there was more. Mauboy is either the seer or a wolf

[mauchow]

I'm confused as hell as to what just happened.. Who is Russell? ANd he literally told you he's a wolf? That would make things easier, I suppose.

[Danny]

Saldana needs to clear this up. Russell could be a villager, so if that's all he told ntn and it was on purpose then it doesn't mean he is a wolf.

[Danny]

Errr told Saldana

[mckerney]

Unvote mauboy1
Vote MartinD

[Danny]

I really don't understand why votes are sticking on Mauboy. It's not worth the risk even though he may be a wolf.

[Danny]

Saldana?

[PackerFanatic]

UNVOTE MAUBOY1
VOTE MARTIND

[cougarfreak]

ok, this F'n sucks, but its Werewolf first and the amazing race second, and if it were the other way around, i would expect the same result

MartinD wanted to let me know that he is Russell, but in doing so, also told me he is a wolf....i wasnt going to out him because hes my partner, but any wolf worth his salt will kill me tonight to protect martin (who i dont event think knows because of what time i was able to read his PM)

the wolves were warned to be careful

we will likely not be getting along the rest of the race after this

unvote NTN
vote MartinD

Clarify please?

[saldana]

Saldana, did he send you a message by mistake or did he just openly tell you he was Russell?

he forwarded me the pm that told him he was russell that stated in 100% fact that he is a wolf

also, i checked with EF about what to do before i posted this, so please dont think i am blowing up the game on a meta...i was prepared to quit, but eagle told me this was fair game.

[EagleFan]

Lathum and The Jackal arrive at Rio first. JAG and mauboy1 are a close second. From there the teams bunch up until getting back to Zinto and Passacaglia who arrive over 3 hours later.

Autumn / ntndeacon and Lathum / The Jackal choose to try to Dig it Out. Everyone else has decided to Pump it out.

Will this level the field?

The "Pair of Amazing Nuts" cougarfreak / PackerFanatic nail the Pump it out detour and make up some time on the crowd. They seemed focussed and had a plan wth a good navigator/driver combination.

Zinto and Passacaglia struggle the most as they took too much time trying to find heir destination when delivering the fuel.

Most other teams were consistant with their effort. The two that tried to Dig it out did not gain any time on the crowd.

MartinD and saldana are heard laughing over their poor start in Vegas... "now I see why we couldn't find the trucks..."

As they rush for the roadblock the standings look like this...

Teams Three and Four are pretty much neck and neck.
Team Ten settles in behind them.
Teams Two, Nine, One, Eight and Five are in the next pack.
Team Six lags farther back.
Team Seven is in a lot of trouble as the elderly friends have not had the best of starts to the race, and have not made the best of decisions.

[Darth Vilus]

well I'm not sure about mauboy yet but it's better safe then sorry.

Unvote Mauboy

Vote MartinD

[Danny]

Well that seals it then

[PackerFanatic]

Many thanks to cougarfreak for our amazing team name.

All this werewolf talk is interfering with the race! ;)

[Danny]

It should also be noted MartinD was vote #3 on Mauboy.

[saldana]

Clarify please?

clarify what.

i just handed you my partner as a wolf...there is absolutely no chance he isnt, unless i am the dumbest player ever, because why would i turn in my own partner unless he is going to come up furry...if he isnt a wolf, im dead tomorrow by lynch...since he is a wolf, im dead tomorrow because i just cost them a player...either way i am dead tomorrow.

[cougarfreak]

unvote mauboy
vote martind

[saldana]

i cant believe people arent switching off...this is amazing

[Darth Vilus]

Danny isn't here mentally so that sort of counts as switching off

[mauchow]

unvote crimson
martind

He LITERALLY told you that he's a wolf? From your post I gathered that he told you he is Russell and you just assume that means wolf? But this is the obvious vote regardless.

[GoldenEagle]

i cant believe people arent switching off...this is amazing

There is really no point of switching. MartinD's fate is sealed.

[saldana]

unvote crimson
martind

He LITERALLY told you that he's a wolf? From your post I gathered that he told you he is Russell and you just assume that means wolf? But this is the obvious vote regardless.

he is a wolf.
period.

wolf

got it yet.

wolf

[Darth Vilus]

Zinto and Pass are on the geriatric team?

[Danny]

But why wouldn't you have switched at some point during all this?

[EagleFan]

The clue for the next leg of the race leads the teams to a sports arena. With Brazil poised to host a World Cup the teams find themselves at a futball stadium.

As they read the details of the clue it says that the player who feels they have stopping power will suit up and have to stop a penalty kick.

Lathum / The Jackal and JAG / mckerney arrive at the same time as neither team was able to seperate themselves from the other.

The Jackal is the first to get suited up as he takes it for his team and will get first crack at it. If teams are there at the same time they must alternate.

The Jackal awaits the first attempt. The kick is near him to his right and he punches it away for the save. He is given the clue to the pitstop and must change back out of the uniform before leaving.

mckerney stands in and the first shot grazes off him and in. He awaits for the next shot and it blisters past him for the goal. JAG shouts encouragement as the next shot hits his lef and stays out. They continue towards the pit stop.

Autumn had the next best time at the roadblock, allowing just one goal. The team that struggled the most was the girl power team as Chief Rum allowed 7 goals before making a save.

The teams continue towards the pitstop....

[Darth Vilus]

he is a wolf.
period.

wolf

got it yet.

wolf

So he's a badger?

[ntndeacon]

Unvote JAG
vote Martin D

[ntndeacon]

Darn Minnesotan

[mckerney]

So he's a badger?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gx6TBrfCW54" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Lathum]

unvote NTN
Vote MArtin D

[mckerney]

The clue for the next leg of the race leads the teams to a sports arena. With Brazil poised to host a World Cup the teams find themselves at a futball stadium.

As they read the details of the clue it says that the player who feels they have stopping power will suit up and have to stop a penalty kick.

Lathum / The Jackal and JAG / mckerney arrive at the same time as neither team was able to seperate themselves from the other.

The Jackal is the first to get suited up as he takes it for his team and will get first crack at it. If teams are there at the same time they must alternate.

The Jackal awaits the first attempt. The kick is near him to his right and he punches it away for the save. He is given the clue to the pitstop and must change back out of the uniform before leaving.

mckerney stands in and the first shot grazes off him and in. He awaits for the next shot and it blisters past him for the goal. JAG shouts encouragement as the next shot hits his lef and stays out. They continue towards the pit stop.

Autumn had the next best time at the roadblock, allowing just one goal. The team that struggled the most was the girl power team as Chief Rum allowed 7 goals before making a save.

The teams continue towards the pitstop....

Woohoo, stopped it with my lef! Knew that would come in handy when I packed it. :p

[mauchow]

I have only been a part of a few WW games and read a few.. and this seems to be the absolute wackiest first day I have ever seen.

[Danny]

I voted Jag, ntn, crimson and martinD. 4 players down, 19 to go lol

[CrimsonFox]

Ulcer growing...:)

[Darth Vilus]

Are you nervous being next to the greatness that is Darth vilus?

[EagleFan]

We wait at the pitstop as we see the first team entering the picture...

Lathum and the Jackal, Team Three will win the first leg of the race...

JAG and mckerney step on the mat 15 minutes off the pace as the second team to arrive.

Chief Rum and hoopsguy struggled at the roadblock but finish just 30 minutes behind the leaders.

From there a dropoff is noticeable as MartinD and saldana are 1:45 behind the leaders.

The teams come in quickly at that point...

cougarfreak and PackerFanatic are just 5 minutes behind them and in 5th place.

In 6th Darth Vilus and bhlloy are just 5 minutes behind 5th.

Ten minutes behind them are Autumn and ntndeacon in seventh.

Ten minutes behind them in eighth are CrimsonFox and GoldenEagle.

As we wait top see who comes into frame for 9th place it is finally clear...

mauboy1 and Danny come into view in 9th place...

Cue the sad music as we see the elderly pair of Zinto and Passaaglia anter the screen. They walk to the mat and seem to have accepted their fate.

Zinto and Pass, I am sorry to tell you that you are the last team to check in.

This, however, is a non-elimination leg. You are still in the race.

[cougarfreak]

I really need to watch Amazing Race sometime.

[EagleFan]

Team 3 – 15:40
Team 4 – 15:55
Team 10 – 16:10
Team 2 – 17:25
Team 9 – 17:30
Team 1 – 17:35
Team 8 – 17:45
Team 5 – 17:55
Team 6 – 18:20
Team 7 – 19:15

[EagleFan]

Do I even need to recalculate the votes?

[Lathum]

That is crap! I have never seen a first leg be non elimination.

What do we win?

[Danny]

Well, at least we beat the old farts

[Darth Vilus]

What BS, the first leg is non-elimination? That's preferential treatment for the old guys!

[EagleFan]

After discussion during the pitstop you have decided that MartinD must be a mole, he told his teammate that he is after all.

You call him forward and interogate him. You find that he is indeed a mole from another station. He says that their reality show will beat this one hands down. Who wouldn't want to watch Life on Tap, you see behind the scenes at a strip club to see how the bartender lives.

You find that not only was he a mole but he was also the Russell Wannabe.

[EagleFan]

That is crap! I have never seen a first leg be non elimination.

What do we win?

Flyers tickets?

[Darth Vilus]

sweet, not a bad day 1!

[saldana]

well, it seemed like it was gonna be fun, but i cant imagine living through the night

[EagleFan]

Everyone is preparing for the next leg. You look around and other than seeing a very dejected MartinD who seems quite distant now that he hs been outed you notice that nothing else is different.

[EagleFan]

Will announce leg two shortly.

[Danny]

Just a reminder that you aren't supposed to delete posts

[Lathum]

well, it seemed like it was gonna be fun, but i cant imagine living through the night

why are you so sure you will be killed? We have a seer who has outed himself unless he is lying.

[Darth Vilus]

did we get a BG block?

[mauchow]

why are you so sure you will be killed? We have a seer who has outed himself unless he is lying.

YEah, danny says it was a good day but I am in total disagreement of that. Someone either body guarded me or just flat out didn't night kill me. Wonder who got the BG.

[mauchow]

And if that is it for the night 1, then great job to the BG!

[mauchow]

And I'm off to bed.

[Lathum]

It would be a pretty above the rim move by Saldana if he was a wolf

[EagleFan]

When you are allowed to begin you will start at Rio and travel the Falkland Islands. From there...

You have a clue to the Roadblock.
Who wants to reach new depths? Requires Water, secondary Physical.


You have a clue to the Detour.

Sheer it: Sheer 10 sheep, you will need to catch them and sheer them. Requires physical and mental.
- Sheep in various pens will need to be sheered.
- Sheer ten of them and you may continue the race.
- Learn from the locals the best way to do so.
- If they cooperate you find yourselves near the pitstop.

Catch it: Catch 50 pounds of fish. Requires Water, Mental and Physical.
- Travel to the docks to be taken out on a fishing boat and shown how to fish using the net.
- Using a net you must catch 50 pounds of fish.
- If using the right method you can catch them in one cast.
- If not using the right method it could take a long time.

Pit Stop - Christ Church Cathedral (at the Whale Bone Arch)

[EagleFan]

Leg Two deadline Friday 9 PM EST.

Day Two Werewolf Deadline Friday 10 PM EST.

[Lathum]

OK, so here it is.

I'm the BG and I protected myself. I told Jackal I was the BG and I find it hard to believe it is a coincidence I was what would be a very random N1 target.

I think Mau is likely a wolf as well and tried a fake reveal. They do that and hope I switch to protect him based on his reveal, and when that happens they kill me, which they tried. Otherwise, why not kill Mau? Even if it takes 2 nights to do it that is a worthy trade. I think they saw a chance to take out the BG and went for it.

I have no problem revealing this now since I am dead tomorrow night regardless since I pretty strongly believe Jackal is a wolf.

A much less likely scenario is Sal is a wolf and outing MartinD hoping I will then protect Sal because of his assertion he is dead. Either way I find it very hard to believe I was a random D1 night kill target given Maus reveal.

[Lathum]

Vote Jackal

[Passacaglia]

Man, so much for trying to provide interesting detail -- that sucked. We'll make it up tomo, Zinto!

Weird Day 1, I'll look at it more tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Was out for awhile there, so sorry I wasn't around to move vote from NTN over to the revealed wolf.

Sounds like a good day of werewolf and a decent day of racing for the favorite team of every male viewer (3rd place for us chicks).

[Darth Vilus]

wow, ok. I'm inclined to believe Lathum since i can't really see the upside of his strategy if he's a wolf. if we listen to him and kill jackal then we'd obviously kill him the next day so that's not a huge advantage for the wolves. it would by them an extra day at best

[EagleFan]

Man, so much for trying to provide interesting detail -- that sucked. We'll make it up tomo, Zinto!

Weird Day 1, I'll look at it more tomorrow.

You provided very interesting detail, I actually should have worked it more into the write up but was tight on time trying to get it all together.

But hitchiking? :)

[Lathum]

wow, ok. I'm inclined to believe Lathum since i can't really see the upside of his strategy if he's a wolf. if we listen to him and kill jackal then we'd obviously kill him the next day so that's not a huge advantage for the wolves. it would by them an extra day at best

I wouldn't go that far. Option C is I was indeed a very random N1 target, but I doubt it.

[EagleFan]

My head is spinning at the moment (have been fighting off what feels like migraine). Going to log for the night. I'll check back in tomorrow morning.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, sorry I didn't get my vote off Mau in time, had some work stuff to clear up. Good first day and a good result.

Very weird first day, I see some pretty clear scenarios forming based on Lathum's reveal and the lack of a night kill but I'll let some more experienced players draw some conclusions first. Lots to talk about.

EF - I assume that given these revelations it's perfectly OK to discuss the race and the werewolf part of your game via PM with your partner?

[Darth Vilus]

I wouldn't go that far. Option C is I was indeed a very random N1 target, but I doubt it.

But what are the odds that out of 20 people we'll lynch the seer.

and what are the odds that out of 14-15 people the wolves wuld hit the bodyguard?

And out of 20 people what are the odds that the bodyguard would protect the same person that the wolves would try to kill?

Not very high.

That's alot for me to swallow

[Lathum]

I almost switched off myself and onto Sal or Mau, glad I didn't.

[bhlloy]

wow, ok. I'm inclined to believe Lathum since i can't really see the upside of his strategy if he's a wolf. if we listen to him and kill jackal then we'd obviously kill him the next day so that's not a huge advantage for the wolves. it would by them an extra day at best

The only thing I can think of is it's a crazy suicide play by the wolves. If Jackal is a wolf and get's lynched tonight, we think Lathum is BG and Mauboy is seer, they are the two most trusted players in the game and they are making it to the end. The real seer and BG wouldn't necessarily want to speak up as they'd instantly make themselves targets.

I have no idea if this makes sense or is remotely realistic. Just putting thoughts out there.

[Lathum]

But what are the odds that out of 20 people we'll lynch the seer.

and what are the odds that out of 14-15 people the wolves wuld hit the bodyguard?

And out of 20 people what are the odds that the bodyguard would protect the same person that the wolves would try to kill?

Not very high.

That's alot for me to swallow

That is why I revealed. I'm just saying, if Jackal is a villager that doesn't mean I am a wolf.

[Lathum]

The only thing I can think of is it's a crazy suicide play by the wolves. If Jackal is a wolf and get's lynched tonight, we think Lathum is BG and Mauboy is seer, they are the two most trusted players in the game and they are making it to the end. The real seer and BG wouldn't necessarily want to speak up as they'd instantly make themselves targets.

I have no idea if this makes sense or is remotely realistic. Just putting thoughts out there.

At some point those truths would come out, either by them revealing or by them being night killed. In a 20 person game there really would be no point to making that move.

Mau revealing as seer makes perfect sense, because he has nothing to lose.

I will also say keep thinking and throwing out scenarios, I love the fact that your wheels are turning!

[Darth Vilus]

no im not saying you're a wolf but let's say jackal is. with a seer reveal you would most likely protect them right? so you would protect them and they would kill you, with you dead we would never have known that you told jackal anything. there wouldn't be any suspicion on him at all if their kill had succeeded.

[Danny]

vote jackal

[Danny]

The most likely scenario is that Jackal is a wolf, so my vote will stay there.

[mckerney]

Vote Jackal

Probably the best we'll have to go on today, may as well get the vote in early.

[Lathum]

no im not saying you're a wolf but let's say jackal is. with a seer reveal you would most likely protect them right? so you would protect them and they would kill you, with you dead we would never have known that you told jackal anything. there wouldn't be any suspicion on him at all if their kill had succeeded.

exactly.

I would be absolutely floored if Jackal wasn't a wolf.

[Danny]

Hopefully mauboy will come back with his scan target. He'll also get in a minimum of one other scan before being killed.

[Darth Vilus]

Honestly I think we have the wolves by the huevos rancheros

[bhlloy]

So why would the wolves try and take out the BG before the seer? Is that standard game play?

[bhlloy]

Oh and why not. Based on the info we have right now

Vote Jackal

[Darth Vilus]

Vote Jackal

[Danny]

Either mauboy is a wolf or they knew mauboy was the seer and figured he had to be protected.

[mckerney]

The only thing I can think of is it's a crazy suicide play by the wolves. If Jackal is a wolf and get's lynched tonight, we think Lathum is BG and Mauboy is seer, they are the two most trusted players in the game and they are making it to the end. The real seer and BG wouldn't necessarily want to speak up as they'd instantly make themselves targets.

I have no idea if this makes sense or is remotely realistic. Just putting thoughts out there.

I can also see mauboy's play as an attempt to draw the seer out, along with being a last ditch effort to save himself. When he did it he looked like a sure bet to get lynched, and unless I missed something he was vague enough that if the seer did come forward he could try to argue he was claiming a role though he never said it was seer.

[Darth Vilus]

So why would the wolves try and take out the BG before the seer? Is that standard game play?

No they'll try to kill whatever role they can. They just assumed the BG would protect the seer, if they tried to kill the seer tonight it wouldn't have worked.

[Lathum]

So why would the wolves try and take out the BG before the seer? Is that standard game play?

No it isn't, which is why I think they went for me. I think they knew I was the BG and assumed I would protect Mau based on his reveal, which is why they went for me.

I was worried Jackal may be a wolf and that exact scenario would happen, which is why I left the protection order on me.

[The Jackal]

what the hell lathum!

[The Jackal]

i honestly don't have time to go into this right now, just got back from my birthday celebrations, which is also why i wasn't involved in vote switching, but i fail to see how this means i'm a wolf

[The Jackal]

i'm shocked and appalled that you automatically assume i'm a wolf because you were targeted when we specifically discussed that you were a likely N1 target and that's why it was great that you are the bodyguard..

[The Jackal]

you better have a damned good explanation as to why this means i'm a wolf.. this is bull, we have a great day one when i'm doing both competitions and this is what i get?!

[The Jackal]

i'll be back around tomorrow.. i'm as vanilla as it gets, but lathum better believe he's not going to win the race after this crap

[Lathum]

I can also see mauboy's play as an attempt to draw the seer out, along with being a last ditch effort to save himself. When he did it he looked like a sure bet to get lynched, and unless I missed something he was vague enough that if the seer did come forward he could try to argue he was claiming a role though he never said it was seer.

Very perceptive

[Lathum]

dola- no sarcasm meant in the above comment, that is solid thinking

[The Jackal]

before you all go and automatically lynch me, try and conceive of the fact that lathum is often a N1 target (hell he bought the BG last game), that we're both vet players and that we won the first leg of the race..

is that so hard to believe lathum, you really think i'm selling you out? awful.

[Lathum]

FWIW Jackal I feel terrible about it, I was really excited to be partnered with you and am genuinely disappointed it came to this.

[The Jackal]

yeah well.. you're throwing away both parts of the game, i'm not a wolf, and for you to believe 100% i'm a wolf because of what happened is ludicrous.. we won the first leg, you're a common N1 target, we're a strong team.. of course mau was the likely NK target which is why the wolves would think he'd be protected, so they went after a good villager instead who would have little chance of being blocked. think about it, man.

[The Jackal]

did mau reveal his scan already? i assume i wasn't scanned. have mau scan me tonight, block him, this is nuts.

[The Jackal]

i'm going to bed, i'm happy to answer anything tomorrow, but you guys should see that this in no way makes me a wolf because of the scenario that played out. i understand why it could arouse lathum's suspicion but it's perfectly explainable. disappointing.

[The Jackal]

it's a damn good thing the flyers won in OT or i'd be SUPER pissed at you right now, lathum.

[bhlloy]

So Lathum... why did you openly share this info with Jackal with no idea if he was a wolf or not?

[bhlloy]

This is a fricking awesome game btw guys. You don't realize until you actually play. So many possible scenarios after just one day...

[ntndeacon]

Until something is shown differently...
Vote Jackal

[Autumn]

So far I'm buying Lathum's story, and not The Jackal's. And that's saying something!

<b>VOTE THE JACKAL</B>

[hoopsguy]

Glad you are having fun, bhlloy.

By the way, we don't normally get handed a wolf on the first day :)

[Darth Vilus]

yeah Mau, who did you scan and what did they come up as?

[Darth Vilus]

yeah well.. you're throwing away both parts of the game, i'm not a wolf, and for you to believe 100% i'm a wolf because of what happened is ludicrous.. we won the first leg, you're a common N1 target, we're a strong team.. of course mau was the likely NK target which is why the wolves would think he'd be protected, so they went after a good villager instead who would have little chance of being blocked. think about it, man.

I know you're mad (I would be too) but he's not throwing away both parts, as long as you two aren't eliminated you can still participate in the race part.

[Zinto]

Man, so much for trying to provide interesting detail -- that sucked. We'll make it up tomo, Zinto!

Weird Day 1, I'll look at it more tomorrow.


Hahah I know right we will just have to get it tomorrow. As they say the old turtles always win the race. ;)

Sorry I was not here for the deadline but I am about to read up on what happened and then post some thoughts tonight or tomorrow.

[The Jackal]

there is no story to buy.. this was a random lucky shot for the wolves, though it's not that random considering what i've already laid out. but hey, i wasn't sure i wanted to be in this game anyways. got excited about winning the first leg for nothing! i'll be lynched, lathum will be nightkilled, we're out. i'm not going to be able to convince anyone i'm telling the truth because the wolves lucked out so hard. enjoy the game!

lathum.. this relationship is not going to make it, sorry! :)

vote jackal

[The Jackal]

I know you're mad (I would be too) but he's not throwing away both parts, as long as you two aren't eliminated you can still participate in the race part.

I'm going to be lynched and he's going to be nightkilled.. that's eliminated

[Lathum]

So Lathum... why did you openly share this info with Jackal with no idea if he was a wolf or not?

roughly 75% chance he isn't so why not, it could help me during a lynch vote, especially with me not being able to be on much between 9-10.

This is a fricking awesome game btw guys. You don't realize until you actually play. So many possible scenarios after just one day...

It really is, glad you are having fun!

[Danny]

Jackal, your scenario is possible, but it's not the more likely of the two scenarios and barring any other info, it's hard to not vote your way.

[Lathum]

I keep trying to find a different scenario, but why on earth would the wolves target me unless they knew I was the body guard and assumed I wouldn't be guarding myself.

[Darth Vilus]

jackal, you have to be eliminated in the race portion! If you're both killed in the werewolf part that doesn't count as eliminated!

either way a jackal lynch helps us way more than anyone else at the moment

[Lathum]

I strongly suggest a seer scan of Saldana

[The Jackal]

jackal, you have to be eliminated in the race portion! If you're both killed in the werewolf part that doesn't count as eliminated!

either way a jackal lynch helps us way more than anyone else at the moment

i guess you're right, i misread the beginning. still, i don't feel particularly motivated to win the race after my teammate sold me down the river. :p

[The Jackal]

and i understand that you're going to lynch me. there's nothing i can offer up as proof, my scenario is less likely. only thing i could have going for me is people reading my posts and thinking i'm telling the truth. but i'd probably vote for me too. oh well. going to be a day of a wasted vote with no history to go off of, followed by a likely NK of the bodyguard.

[The Jackal]

besides, my "story" isn't a story, it's a statement of fact. lathum has decided that since he told me he's the BG and he was attacked, chances are heavily in favor of me being part of the wolf team, and the wolves deciding that he'd probably protect the seer that came out. i can't really argue with that, but to think it's so unlikely that he'd be targeted randomly by the wolves N1 is assinine. i don't know where i'm going with this, doesn't sound like anyone is gonna listen.

[The Jackal]

maybe mau scanned me. that'd be sweet. but it seems more likely that he scanned one of the other people on the block.

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, I'm at the very least listening enough to wait and see if Mauboy has scan info to share with us. I don't see any reason to rush into the vote before hearing from him.

[The Jackal]

my argument about the wolves targeting us because we were leading the race was mostly based off me thinking that you get eliminated from the race if both people are lynched and/or NKed, so i guess that's pretty defunct. but still, it's certainly caused a rift, and as lathum noted to me recently, they're laughing their asses off right now!

[The Jackal]

Jackal, I'm at the very least listening enough to wait and see if Mauboy has scan info to share with us. I don't see any reason to rush into the vote before hearing from him.

Yeah.. apparently quite a few people felt the need to rush. :)

[The Jackal]

I'd plead harder for a mau scan tonight to clear me, but I don't have a role or anything, so it's probably not worth it. Might as well scan someone who you have a chance of nailing as a wolf.

[Darth Vilus]

Hey i'll switch if anything better comes up, no problem. i want to hear from Mauboy before he's killed off and his info becomes useless

[The Jackal]

Yeah I guess my only shot at this point is mau finding a wolf with his scan, then choosing to scan me tomorrow night. That'd be some sweet reverse luck right in the wolves' faces.

[The Jackal]

Oh, but of course there's a cunning, so I wouldn't be 100% cleared. Fudge. Hey, I'll do what I can tomorrow to help out.

[The Jackal]

dear lathum,

you better top kobe's apology present (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,626534,00.html) if you want to have any chance of winning the race after this

-jackal

[Lathum]

hmmm, could Sal be the cunning fishing for a scan.....

[The Jackal]

hell, there's also still the chance that mau isnt even the seer, isnt there? i haven't reviewed it closely, but wouldn't be a crazy play for a wolf to claim seer on D1 when they were about to be lynched. best case the seer comes out right away to dispute (which the seer should never do on D1, having scanned no one), worst case the wolf lives at least another day or two.

another point in my defense column!

[The Jackal]

though an argument could be made either way on that one, because lathum could still decide to guard him not knowing if he was the seer, and the wolves would still know lathum was the BG if i was one, so nevermind. this is gonna be a tough cucumber to pickle.

[Darth Vilus]

hmmm, could Sal be the cunning fishing for a scan.....

It's possible but why would he give up one of his team members day 1? A team member who wasn't really even in the runing to belynched? Doesn't sound very smart to me

[Lathum]

It's possible but why would he give up one of his team members day 1? A team member who wasn't really even in the runing to belynched? Doesn't sound very smart to me

The combo of giving up a wolf and a clear scan could take you a long way. That being said, it would be a very meta-gamey way to get there, and knowing Sal I would be amazed if this was the case.

[Darth Vilus]

Again it's possible but I'm not inclined to believe it. I just think that the wolves have had really bad luck so far. martinD screwed up his PM, they tried to kill lathum and failed, we might have had one on the block with Mauboy1, imagine having a day like that.

I'd say they're fighting an uphill battle at the moment.

[The Jackal]

one last point of contention before i go to sleep. even if lathum had been NKed (presuming he had switched to mau), he'd still be able to talk in the thread, right? it would be a terrible play for me/wolves to go after him N1, knowing we knew exactly who he was and could take him out later in the game, especially if he was telling me who he was guarding. knowledge like that in the pocket is the kind of stuff that wins you games down the road, trying to eliminate N1 would be a silly maneuver.

[The Jackal]

Obviously I'm refusing to go down without at least somewhat of a fight here, so I'll take the silly self-vote away

unvote jackal

[Lathum]

one last point of contention before i go to sleep. even if lathum had been NKed (presuming he had switched to mau), he'd still be able to talk in the thread, right? it would be a terrible play for me/wolves to go after him N1, knowing we knew exactly who he was and could take him out later in the game, especially if he was telling me who he was guarding. knowledge like that in the pocket is the kind of stuff that wins you games down the road, trying to eliminate N1 would be a silly maneuver.

This actually brings up an interesting point. Usually in WW when you are dead no more talk about the game. How is this approached now?

[Darth Vilus]

First of all he would still be allowed to talk in the thread, just not about the WW part. EF can confirm that i believe.

Second, Lathum wouldn't tell you who he was guarding in case you were a wolf, he wouldn't have a way of knowing you were trustworthy or not without a seer scan. and even then there's the cunning, nobody can really trust their partners for the WW part.

[Darth Vilus]

First of all he would still be allowed to talk in the thread, just not about the WW part.

This is just speculation on my part, i don't know for sure.

[The Jackal]

It's true, I could never be sure if he was telling me the truth, and I wouldn't expect him to tell the truth all the time especially if I was uncleared. But still. However, if dead players are no longer allowed to reference the WW part, another fighting point of mine is defunct, sigh.

[The Jackal]

From the first page -

Players are free to continue to participate in all discussions within the thread until they are eliminated from both portions of the game.

[Darth Vilus]

it makes sense though right? if you die in the WW portion why would you still be able to talk about it? other than being weird it gives an advantage to the village

[The Jackal]

Trying to eliminate Lathum N1 if I was a wolf would have been a boneheaded play, instantly outing myself, as has happened. Just think about it a little. Again, I don't have a role or anything, but lynching me is a waste, especially if its a runaway.

[The Jackal]

it makes sense though right? if you die in the WW portion why would you still be able to talk about it? other than being weird it gives an advantage to the village

Yeah, maybe I'm misreading what I just posted up there, but that's sure what it sounds like. Maybe EF didn't mean it that way.

[Darth Vilus]

I think EF needs to clarify this point

[Danny]

It's a little weird that you would be able to contribute, but have to avoid mentioning anything about the WW portion. It might give an advantage to the village, but mostly in the case of an offed seer who didn't reveal.

[Darth Vilus]

I'd say there are 4 wolves (because of the cunning) and we've already got one. I'm confident we can nab another one tomorrow, luck is on our side.

Plus I can use the force :p

[Lathum]

OK, off to bed. Been a fun day of WW

[mckerney]

The combo of giving up a wolf and a clear scan could take you a long way. That being said, it would be a very meta-gamey way to get there, and knowing Sal I would be amazed if this was the case.

The problem I have with this is why would he do it that late in day one? I don't think that it would be done under normal circumstances, especially if we were close to lynching a villager who might be the seer. If that were the case then they would probably leave sacrificing MartinD until day two. The only reason I could see why the wolves would make a move like that is if mauboy is the cunning wolf. In such a situation they'd hope to clear two wolves, mauboy on a scan and saldana for giving up a wolf. It's risky though being it leaves saldana a candidate to be scanned by the seer.

Given the circumstances that would need to be necessary for a move like that to work I really don't think saldana gave up MartinD as another wolf.

[CrimsonFox]

This actually brings up an interesting point. Usually in WW when you are dead no more talk about the game. How is this approached now?

EF told me you can still talk until you're out for good (of both the WW and AR parts of the game).

[Danny]

The problem I have with this is why would he do it that late in day one? I don't think that it would be done under normal circumstances, especially if we were close to lynching a villager who might be the seer. If that were the case then they would probably leave sacrificing MartinD until day two. The only reason I could see why the wolves would make a move like that is if mauboy is the cunning wolf. In such a situation they'd hope to clear two wolves, mauboy on a scan and saldana for giving up a wolf. It's risky though being it leaves saldana a candidate to be scanned by the seer.

Given the circumstances that would need to be necessary for a move like that to work I really don't think saldana gave up MartinD as another wolf.

The part about mauboy does not make sense. If he is scanned as a villager, we know he is a wolf anyway as he is either the seer or a wolf. No other options for him.

[Danny]

I doubt Saldana is a wolf and I'd rather see someone else scanned. I think he is capable of a strong wolf play, but I seriously doubt he would have done it in a meta gamey way if he was a wolf. I'm guessing part of the reason his revealing of info was delayed was to see what EF said about it.

[Danny]

At this point, we know this

Mauboy = Seer or a Wolf
Lathum = Bodyguard

I'd also add this as an opinion.

Saldana is likely a villager.

[mckerney]

The part about mauboy does not make sense. If he is scanned as a villager, we know he is a wolf anyway as he is either the seer or a wolf. No other options for him.

I don't think it's what happened, but it's the only situation where I could see a wolf pulling a move like that so late day one. Mostly making the point that I don't think saldana is a wolf.

[Danny]

And despite everyone seemingly not, I tend to lean toward Mauboy actually being the seer. MartinD placed a key 3rd vote on him that was posted about the same time as the second vote and really helped establish him as a lynch candidate when it wasn't needed.

[Danny]

I don't think it's what happened, but it's the only situation where I could see a wolf pulling a move like that so late day one. Mostly making the point that I don't think saldana is a wolf.

Well, I agree with the Saldana part.

[CrimsonFox]

I can also see mauboy's play as an attempt to draw the seer out, along with being a last ditch effort to save himself. When he did it he looked like a sure bet to get lynched, and unless I missed something he was vague enough that if the seer did come forward he could try to argue he was claiming a role though he never said it was seer.

The problem I have with this is why would he do it that late in day one? I don't think that it would be done under normal circumstances, especially if we were close to lynching a villager who might be the seer. If that were the case then they would probably leave sacrificing MartinD until day two. The only reason I could see why the wolves would make a move like that is if mauboy is the cunning wolf. In such a situation they'd hope to clear two wolves, mauboy on a scan and saldana for giving up a wolf. It's risky though being it leaves saldana a candidate to be scanned by the seer.


I have extreme doubts mau is the seer. I think it was a desperation move and trying to emulate tyke's move last game of inventing a role . That said if mau is not the seer, the real seer is not going to out himself to refute that. The "future" comment was obviously claiming seer. His claiming BG protected him too really sounds like he's making stuff up and overexplaining.

Amazing reveal, Lathum. With that info I think both Jackal and mau can be wolves.

[Darth Vilus]

At this point, we know this

Mauboy = Seer or a Wolf
Lathum = Bodyguard

I'd also add this as an opinion.

Saldana is likely a villager.

You forgot one thing:

Darth Vilus = BAMF!

[Danny]

He may or may not be. If he's not dead on night 3, we know he's a wolf.

[Danny]

We're both BAMF = Broke Ass Mother ****ers

[Danny]

Did you get your new phone btw?

[Darth Vilus]

Yeah that's true. And no not yet, i'll have to wait til next week at least

[mckerney]

I have extreme doubts mau is the seer. I think it was a desperation move and trying to emulate tyke's move last game of inventing a role . That said if mau is not the seer, the real seer is not going to out himself to refute that. The "future" comment was obviously claiming seer. His claiming BG protected him too really sounds like he's making stuff up and overexplaining.

Amazing reveal, Lathum. With that info I think both Jackal and mau can be wolves.

I don't entirely believe him either. I'm also open to the possibility that he's a regular villager who dropped hints that he seer to stay around past day one. I agree that the future comment was to give the impression he's a seer, but also without saying it so he can claim he never admitted to being seer.

I also think that he could be a wolf, but currently think The Jackal is a better pick for tonights vote.

[Darth Vilus]

I don't like Mauboy's reveal to be honest. It just doesn't sit with me. If he was goin to hint instead of coming right out with it his hint wouldn't have been so blatant

[Danny]

Don't by that a vanilla would do that. And if he did, he should be lynched for it.

[Darth Vilus]

I'm also open to the possibility that he's a regular villager who dropped hints that he seer to stay around past day one

This type of strategy puts the real seer in danger, i doubt that he would do that

[CrimsonFox]

This type of strategy puts the real seer in danger, i doubt that he would do that

But being new, he wouldn't realize that. I definitely think he would do that just to save himself, wolf or not.

[Darth Vilus]

True, we'll just have to see how this plays out. In my opinion we sould handle the jackal situation first

[Darth Vilus]

*should

[JAG]

Holy shit guys.

Sorry for missing the deadline, after putting the youngest to sleep, I sat on the couch for a minute and the next thing I knew, it was 1am. I can't believe the insanity I missed. Let me try to summarize:

1. mauboy1 is the seer or a wolf
2. saldana handed us a wolf after a PM from his partner telling him he was a wolf (uh, thanks!)
3. No NK, Lathum reveals he's BG and says he had told his partner that (Lathum, why would you do that when you didn't know if he was a wolf or not? That seems like a poor idea, although it apparently may have caught us another wolf)
4. Our team came in second for the leg, woohoo!

On the WW side, I'm going to hope mau is a wolf because even though we are off to a good start, it sucks if we're losing the seer and BG by N3 in a game where I figured the roles would last longer than usual considering there are more villagers than games I have usually played in. For today, I guess there are four possibilities:

1. mau is a wolf, Jackal is a wolf, wolves knew Lathum was BG and tried to off him N1.
2. mau is the seer, Jackal is a wolf, wolves knew Lathum was BG, figured Lathum would protect mau, and tried to off him N1.
3. mau is a wolf, Jackal is a villager, wolves had no knowledge of Lathum being BG and just took a swing a him randomly.
4. mau is seer, Jackal is a villager, wolves had no knowledge of Lathum being BG, figured mau would be protected, and just took a swing at him randomly.

I'm not a big believer in WW coincidence, so I'm less inclined to believe 3. or 4 (yes Lathum is a good player, but there's no shortage of strong players to take a random swing at). I don't know which of 1. or 2. is most likely, though I think as a wolf in scenario 2. I'd have been conservative and tried to NK mau to be guaranteed to have the seer out by N2, but either way Jackal would be a wolf, thus:

Vote Jackal

I'll try to keep up today, but I'm going to be challenged for time.

[mauchow]

I wish I could say that I had something good to say get the vote off Jackal if he is not a wolf. I didn't scan a wolf last night. I was actually debating between Lathum and Chief Rum and thankfully I went with CR. He scanned as a villager.

I think Lathum might be putting too much emphasis on Jackal which has caused all the votes to go his way, unfortunately. If we do find out he is a villager I'm not sure how we're better off. Someone please explain what we do gain by going gung-ho and having an all-out lopsided vote on Jackal?

[mauchow]

Here's what I do know I'm doing today..

I'm not voting for Saldana as the chances that both partners are wolves are pretty slim and would be a crazy move for Saldana to make if he's a wolf. Not seeing that move being made on day 1 though.

I'm not voting for Jackal because we need diversity if this doesn't work. I'd almost rather try swinging this into someone else's favor and investigate the quick voting on Jackal for day 3.

I'm not voting Lathum with his reveal.

And I also know I'm not voting CR as he was cleared with my scan.

Those are the four I know I'm not voting today, so that leaves me with 15 others.

[mauchow]

14...

[bhlloy]

Throwing more crazy conspiracy theories out there... what if Mau is the cunning, and the wolves decide to sacrifice the non-roled wolf to save him? The upside would be huge - knowing that Mauboy is a villager and claimed seer, there is no way that he gets lynched and the wolves could control a lot of the game.

The timing of Saldana's reveal seems just so questionable to me in terms of who it saved and when (doesn't necessarily look bad for Sal - he could have been fed the information by MartinD and be completely clueless about the whole thing)

Sal - what time did you get the PM from MartinD, if you don't mind sharing?

2 things bother me 1) the timing of a stone clad lynch to save Mauboy and 2) the fact that somebody could be that stupid to just PM their partner who is 75% chance of being a villager that they are a wolf.

I know people think there's no way the wolves sacrifice one of their own on day 1 but there's 5 of them left. Pretty big upside to doing that IMO.

[Lathum]

Throwing more crazy conspiracy theories out there... what if Mau is the cunning, and the wolves decide to sacrifice the non-roled wolf to save him? The upside would be huge - knowing that Mauboy is a villager and claimed seer, there is no way that he gets lynched and the wolves could control a lot of the game.

.

This would only fly until the real seer was outed, then their plan would sink.

[bhlloy]

Well, seems to me that there's two options

1) the real seer would almost have to come forward at that point, meaning they know who the seer is (huge play for wolves)

2) the real seer stays quiet and mauboy gets to control all the scans up until the point that the real seer get's lynched or NK'd

I guess the real seer could get killed early on and this plan wouldn't work. But otherwise, you could control a large portion of the game for quite a while.

Again apologies if this seems dumb. Just trying to put some conversation out there. The other option seems to be that MartinD made one of the biggest screwups in game history and/or the wolves are stupid and I'm not willing to just take that at face value.

[EagleFan]

A lot to catch up on.

To answer the question which was raised.

Yes, if you are still in the game either WW or Race you may participare in the thread. The only thing that you can't do when you are eliminated via WW is participate in the voting.

I did this to add a little cross strategy for both the wolves and village. It is a mechanic that can favor the village (in the case of a seer being "killed" but still alive to talk. There is also a mechanic in place that will work in the wolves favor once it is triggered which should counter any gain the village may have.

[The Jackal]

See, someone please explain to me how trying to take out Lathum N1 would be a good idea if I was a wolf. There's absolutely no way I'd go without suspicion, it would be an awful move. What am I, a rookie? We'd have the knowledge that he was the BG in our back pockets, and be able to take him out later on without him being suspicious that I revealed any info.

I'm not a wolf, guys. It's a bizarre coincidence, but it's a coincidence nonetheless.

[The Jackal]

What happened last night should clear me much more than it damns me. If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have let that crap happen. That's an easy NK a couple days down the road, so what if he can get a block or two in.

[The Jackal]

Now as to who we should be voting instead, well, I don't have any great options. Sal gets a pass at least for now, and obviously we're not going after CR. Perhaps JAG or NTN to clear up some of the vote movement from yesterday, but that's about all I have.

[saldana]

In response to the timing question. I got the PM from martin a few hours earlier than I posted in the thread because I was waiting to see what EF said about it

I was ready to drop out of the game until he told me that it was ok to come in and give the info up to the village.

I didn't get that PM til about 5 minutes before I posted

I worked til 630 last night and had my kids til 9, so that was the fastest i could turn the info around

As far as me giving up a wolf on day 1 to draw a scan because I am the cunning, that's a really ballsy move on day one that would have been totally unnecessary. I'm a vanilla villager who got lucky

[Lathum]

What happened last night should clear me much more than it damns me. If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have let that crap happen. That's an easy NK a couple days down the road, so what if he can get a block or two in.

fwiw I know you were out last night. I think what happened was the other wolves came up with this why you were away

[PackerFanatic]

Wow...what a crazy night...

A lopsided vote that goes the wrong way definitely doesn't help things down the road, but this is clearly the best option for today.

VOTE THE JACKAL

[Autumn]

I don't see any situation where it makes sense to imagine Saldana is a wolf. Offering up a wolf to be "cleared" is a great move, but you don't make it on a night where the seer could "accidentally" get lynched. Unless everybody else with votes at that moment, including Mauboy, was a wolf, I don't see it.

We rarely ever get as good a lead as Lathum's on Jackal on D2. I don't really see any reason to take a pot shot at someone else with that in our pocket. Another seer scan and we'll have a really strong start to the game.

[GoldenEagle]

I am not convinced that Jackal is bad. Sure, it is the best lead we have at this point but the justification of him being a wolf does not add up. Lathum could be a night one target in any game.

In fact, it leads me to believe that mau is more than likely not the seer. Why would the target not be him? Surely the wolves would prefer to kill off the seer instead of a solid player, who may or may not have a role.

That being said, I think either mau or the jackal is a wolf. I am just not sure which one yet.

[Danny]

GE, whether Mau is the seer or not, he's most likely not targeted last night. The wolves would have to assume he would be guarded with a then unrevealed bg.

[The Jackal]

fwiw I know you were out last night. I think what happened was the other wolves came up with this why you were away

A metagamey lynch, woo. :p

I get your point, but still, it would've been a bad move, and selling me down the river, after they'd already lost one wolf. Just bad move all around. You'll all see I'm telling the truth, and chalk it up to "oh, well it was a good lead". But man, this annoys me.

[Danny]

Or in the event Jackal is a wolf, they knew the BG and knew Lathum would be likely to protect Mau.

[The Jackal]

Or in the event Jackal is a wolf, they knew the BG and knew Lathum would be likely to protect Mau.

Which would still have gotten me killed the next day, because Lathum can still talk..

[The Jackal]

I'm going to laugh and eat popcorn while the wolves tear you apart and Lathum and I win the race. :)

[GoldenEagle]

GE, whether Mau is the seer or not, he's most likely not targeted last night. The wolves would have to assume he would be guarded with a then unrevealed bg.

You have a point. I don't guess that crossed my mind. I am still not convinced that Jackal is a wolf and I think we could potentially waste a day of voting history.

[Danny]

Which would still have gotten me killed the next day, because Lathum can still talk..

This is true, but we did not know the specifics at the time. Still, this is something to consider and the first piece of information that is a possible reason to not vote you.

[Chief Rum]

The thing I don't get? Why DIDN'T Lathum protect the seer? Who plays with games like that, with the BG role? It is something that has bugged me since the get-go.

Now, it would take a tremendously gutsy wolf move AND the real BG would for some reason need to stay silent, so for those reasons, I expect Lathum is telling the truth. I can't see why the real BG would stay silent, and we have the evidence that no one died last night to back up what Lathum said.

But, yeah, I am struggling a bit with the fact our BG had a pretty good idea who the seer was and chose not to protect him. It may have ended up being the right choice here, but that concerns me going forward. I certainly hope Lathum protects the seer tonight.