The College Hoops 2K8 esoteric information thread (learn and discuss the arcane)

[muggins]

Quote: Originally Posted by koshi

Ya know... This really touches on one of the finer points of the game. When what you're describing happens, it is an instance of the offense being successful in the flow of the game.

Not really, no.


This is what happens. Offense moves the ball to the wing, my player instead of running around the perimeter, sags into the paint and then runs out to the perimeter. Doesn't make sense and shouldn't happen.

Quote:

You'll notice that when on offense a team is more likely to have success when running a play and trying to get into rhythm. Simply dribbling down the court with your star perimeter player, busting a couple of isos, and then trying to fire up a fade away runner simply doesn't work in this game... Or if it does it doesn't work often.

Yeah... I know that. This is why I voted it so far in OS "Best Game Ever" contest and was seen defending it in there from people who thought it was a "fanboy special".

Quote:

This game is pretty much weighted to the sim side of things, almost to a fault. I say almost because once you figure out how to work with within the sim elements, then you start to see the beauty of the game, and things start to free up and become more fluid. Getting into that rhythm on offense is key, and so to have success on defense you must disrupt that rhythm. Little things like changing your defense, applying manual double teams, and putting your best defender on someone lighting you up can make a big difference. This same approach of disruption must be applied when trying to stop the 3 from the 2-3 or 3-2 zone. This disruption must come from you however, and you cannot expect the CPU to apply it for you. You have to take control of the defender in question and anticipate the pass, getting in the shooter's face after the pass is made. If you sit back and allow the play to develop without any real attempt at breaking the flow of the offense, they're going to give you fits.

Again, see above.

[moe_42]

Quote: Originally Posted by muggins

This is what happens. Offense moves the ball to the wing, my player instead of running around the perimeter, sags into the paint and then runs out to the perimeter. Doesn't make sense and shouldn't happen.

It's not just the Human D - the AI does it too. It's way too easy to hit 3s against the 2-3 or 3-2. When my players have decent defensive awareness, I can get some quality stops with the 1-2-2 and 1-3-1 (when used sparingly). The only issue I have is when my 7'3" center ends up at the point.

I like using the matchup zones - they play more or (okay, okay) less like matchups in real life. I give up the occasional wide open bunny, but I think that has more to do with my big mens' defensive awareness than the game's implementation of them.

[spit_bubble]

muggins...

Does it happen when you manually take control of the player too? If it does, or if you want a way to work around it, I suggest creating a playbook for the CPU that doesn't include plays where this happens.

I'm at the point where I realize creating CPU playbooks is almost necessary. I just lost an elite eight game to a Michigan State team rated 96, with six players of at least a B 3-point shooting rating. I threw everything at them, and yet they shot 70% from the field and 70% from 3. It was the most absurd game I've ever played, and it was almost like everything was predetermined...

They would pass it to covered players under the hoop constantly for easy buckets, zip the ball around at lightning speed to the open man, and there were even instances where the player I WAS CONTROLLING would go for a pump fake EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT TRY TO BLOCK THE SHOT!

The only work around I see is to create CPU playbooks, and it should help with your problem too.

I'm going to create four different ones:

1. One that is balanced.
2. One the emphasizes post play.
3. One that emphasizes perimeter play.
4. One that runs a high post offense.

[spit_bubble]

THE COUP DE GRÂCE (custom playbooks for CPU controlled teams)

I've hinted at creating custom playbooks for computer controlled teams within this thread, but have never actually tried doing it until today. My thought was that if you were to create a custom playbook that emphasized certain things, then it would have an impact on the way CPU controlled teams play.

Thankfully, for the sake of the game, that assertion was correct.

I created a custom playbook that dealt mainly with getting the ball into the low post, and to either the C or the PF... And if not directly into the post then at least in good scoring position. The results were VERY good, and bordering on great.

Game One, versus '57 Kansas- Wilt the Stilt dominates, taking 16 shots and scoring 20 point in the first half. He was at C and the starting PF took NO shots... So I thought I'd test another team, with a good PF...

Game Two, versus '68 Houston and Elvin Hayes at PF- He ends up struggling a bit and misses shots, and they seem to go away from him. Nonetheless he takes the most shots for his team at half time... So I decide to try another team...

Game Three, versus '97 Wake Forest and Tim Duncan at PF- This team also has Lauren Woods at C, though he's a freshman and rated in the upper 70s on my roster file. Duncan ends up scoring 10 by half time, also taking the most shots of anyone on his team.

So yes... This is... Potentially... A big deal...

I only have three sample halves... But they all panned out pretty well, as well they should have I suppose.

The thing is, I was thinking perhaps the CPU AI wouldn't discriminate between the PF and C. In other words, in the case of the Wake Forest game, I thought the CPU might use Loren Woods as much as Duncan... But that wasn't the case! There does indeed seem to be an ability by the CPU to find his go to guy... ESPECIALLY IF THE RIGHT PLAYBOOK IS PUT INTO PLACE!

Ahem... I feel this occasion calls for a smiley:

So... Custom playbooks not only help the CPU play more realistically, in terms of getting the ball to the right players... But also affords the opportunity to weed out some of the crappy plays... As well as adding some of your own!

EDIT: And don't forget post #3 of this thread... Turning off the double team before tip off!

[spit_bubble]

Guys... This custom playbooks for CPU controlled teams is looking to be as money as... Chris Corchiani...

I just played the most realistic game I have ever played... This is not an exaggeration either...

I decided to create a CPU playbook for perimeter players, focusing on the PG, SG, and SF. I assigned that playbook to '79 Indiana St. and then assigned the low post CPU playbook I created before to the the team I was controlling: '69 UCLA.

So yes, Bird vs. Alcindor... Two teams evenly rated overall too...

Bird starts out cold, missing shots he probably should have been making. Meanwhile, I let the CPU call plays for me, and sure enough it's calling plays for Alcindor... But not over doing it...

I go up by twelve midway through the first half, and maintain the lead to halftime. Bird eventually starts catching fire and shoots them back into it with a couple of threes...

It's back and forth down the stretch, and with three minutes to go I'm up one and throw an outlet pass that Bird steals and puts in for an easy layup... I swear it was eerily realistic... A head's up play that a player like Bird would've made...

In the final minutes the CPU keeps calling plays for Alcindor for me, every time down the court too! I thought this was a nice touch, because it shows the CPU knows what's up... And on top of that they were double teaming me right away! Very cool...

I end up getting a stop, up one... Get intentionally fouled... Sink the free throws with 8 second remaining...

They come down the court quick and find Bird in the corner to tie... Clank! He misses... Awesome game... Truly.

edit: forgot to list the stats:

Bird ended up with 20 points, 22 shots taken (next closest was 15)
Alcindor ended up with 28, 25 shots taken (next closest was 9... Yes I was gunning)

Final: 73-70

**********

Here's the plays I have set up for the playbooks, twelve plays in each:

CPU Low Post
BOX- Pick then Post
BOX- PF Double Screen
FLEX- C Dive
FLEX- PG-PF Pick and Roll
FLEX- PF Post Option
FLEX- PG-C High Screen and Roll
FLEX- PF Low Post
PRINCETON- C Low Post Feed
STACK- Double Cross
STACK- Screen Step Out
STACK- PF Pick and Post
STACK- Michigan

CPU Perimeter
BOX- PF Pop then Clear
MOTION- SG Spot Up
MOTION- SG Stagger
MOTION- 24 Motion
FLEX- SG Pick and Pop
FLEX- Screen Drive and Dish
UCLA HIGH POST- SF Low Post
UCLA HIGH POST- PG Pick and Roll
UCLA HIGH POST- Screen the Screener
STACK- SG Wing Iso
STACK- PG Clear Out
STACK- 41

I'm going to make one that is balanced too, for teams with both strong post and strong perimeter play.

Also, I noticed a strange little glitch... It seems if the play doesn't work... In other words, the players run through every step of the play without shooting... Then the CPU will call another play that sometimes isn't from the custom playbook. I think maybe they are drawing upon the playbook assigned to the coach of that team, rather than the custom playbook assigned before the game.

[ehh]

I honestly didn't know you could have multiple created/custom playbooks loaded at the same time. I always just assumed you could just have one. Good work, koshi. I'll have to test this out tonight.

[moe_42]

That is just plain awesome - I would much rather be dominated by a team's 90-overall seven-footer than their scrub freshman PG.

What difficulty setting do you use? I would guess that and slider settings would affect who the CPU gets the ball too.

[mtaytay1104]

So how exactly do I get the CPU to use these playbooks?

Do I just assign them the specific playbook they should use before I play them?

I guess my question is, where do I go to change the CPU's playbooks. I am in the middle of my Air Force dynasty and would love to implement this.