Gamechanger event #1 (very early impressions)

[mikeyflex]

Quote: Originally Posted by jake19ny

For the most part this doesn't even warrant a response. It offers nothing constructive to the thread at hand. Clearly you have made up your mind about people who enjoy the game, the game itself, EA, and NHL17 so it begs the question of why bother posting in here at all? Just move on....

I didn't come here to pick a fight. If someone post a thread, does anyone have the right to ask a question? He suggested that NHL 17 was going to be great. I simply asked him to elaborate on this. You don't have to agree with my opinion, that's cool. But if we all take your tack of "moving on" why bother having a thread to begin with. You're going to get people who agree and disagree with things that are said and done. You have to learn how to deal with it in a constructive way, just saying.

[jake19ny]

Quote: Originally Posted by mikeyflex

I didn't come here to pick a fight. If someone post a thread, does anyone have the right to ask a question? He suggested that NHL 17 was going to be great. I simply asked him to elaborate on this. You don't have to agree with my opinion, that's cool. But if we all take your tack of "moving on" why bother having a thread to begin with. You're going to get people who agree and disagree with things that are said and done. You have to learn how to deal with it in a constructive way, just saying.

He is not able to elaborate due to the disclosure agreement that EA makes the Gamechangers sign. That said DJ Neo shares many of our frustrations and disappointments with the offline gameplay experience and if he is optimistic after this first event I believe he heard some positive things. He has no control on wether they deliver on those things and all we can do is wait.

[TDKing]

Has a game changer ever come back from an event with something bad to say ? I don't think so. While I appreciate the feed back I'll wait to see for myself. If you look back they have probably all come back and said the same thing. "Game looks good you guys are gonna love it but I can't say anymore cause of the nda. " Not their fault I know just saying.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[canucksss]

How old is NHL 16 and we are excited on NHL 17????? Am i reading this correctly???? Barely 3 months....and you cant wait for the next year's release? WOW!

[jake19ny]

Quote: Originally Posted by canucksss

How old is NHL 16 and we are excited on NHL 17????? Am i reading this correctly???? Barely 3 months....and you cant wait for the next year's release? WOW!

Lol. It does sound silly. Not can't wait for NHL17 just looking forward to more info coming is all. We all wanted someone who represents us hardcore sim guys to be a part of this and we have one. I will take him on his word that the VERY early impression sounds positive. He knows as well as the rest of us that doesn't always translate to delivery.

[AdamJones113]

Quote: Originally Posted by jake19ny

Wether or not someone thinks this game is great or terrible is their personal opinion and that's all we can really do. Not sure why some people feel that their opinion is the only one that counts and if you don't agree you have "no credibility". Adams packet is a constructive breakdown of the game and points out positive and negative aspects of the game. Yes they are his opinion but an opinion shared by many of us. Your entitled to yours as well but not sure what any of that had to do with the Gamechangers event. On another note, thanks DJ Neo for keeping us in the loop. It does give comfort having someone there that is a true sim guy like us. Wether or not they take your advice or deliver on what they tell you is out if your control but we can only hope. While not perfect by any stretch I'm enjoying NHL16 now and do feel that EA made a better effort to listen to the masses. As far as people saying they heard all this last year too, remember the Gamechangers event last year focused almost only on EASHL. This year they have promised to look at the other areas of the game. Look forward to hearing more.

Indeed, thanks DJ. Didn't even know they'd invited you originally, so I'm glad you came on with some early impressions, and I'm looking forward to more.
I completely agree with the bolded part. The team realized that (it was pretty clear to begin with), so kudos to them for making the necessary change.

Quote: Originally Posted by mikeyflex

Well I admire your time and effort putting this together. Unfortunately the game and the developers have been taking a great deal of heat over the flawed broken game. You can certainly ignore my critique, having said that when I lay out 60 bucks for a broken game and add to the fact the customer service is garbage, I'm certainly within my right to state my opinion as a paying customer. Obviously, as I've stated, I stopped reading this after the comment I stated above simply because I can't take anyone serious who pays this poor excuse of hockey game a complement. Of course you can simply ignore my comments. But remember this next time EA pumps their chest on social media and look at all the feedback/comments from their customers, its overwhelmingly negative. The sentiments are clear, this game sucks, the customer service sucks, the developers suck and anyone who has anything to do with this game should be embarrassed. So I ask again with all due respect and not to take a "dig" at you but to hopefully get some constructive feedback, what evidence leads you to believe that NHL 17 will be better (paraphrasing)?

In order of your paragraphs (sorry DJ, just this last response then I'll bring the thread back on track):

1. Thank you. I do not ignore your critique at all, I completely respect it (and indeed I was of the same opinion for a long time). At the same time it's certainly right for me, having paid $90 for the game [****** Canadian economy lol], to state mine as well without losing all credibility.

2. I really think you should keep reading. It's not all roses, as you seem to think; I think there are some very valid points in there that agree with your point of view.

3. No, it's comments like that that EA ignores. Claiming that the game is overwhelmingly horrible will not get you anywhere. The GCs were chosen because they have good feedback to give and can represent a very diverse community, and that's what EA is looking at.

4. I have connections with several GameChangers, both from this year and last year. What they've told me in advance of telling the masses has been positive—not something ludicrous like "this will be the best game ever," but more concrete and encouraging notes. That's why I'm excited to hear more about NHL 17.

[mikeyflex]

Truth be told, they spin the same rhetoric every year. Why should anyone believe that next year will be better. Has there ever been a game that has been hammered as much as this franchise has? Since NHL 15 (and perhaps sooner) the devs and EA sports in general have been taking a beating. I mean every time! Look at social media, every post about them pumping their chest is met with replies/comments absolutely bashing this product.

I understand how my comment can be taken to be offensive. But the reality is I'M offended at this game as a hockey fan, hockey player and someone who grew loving this game to see how it has been depicted in this game. Going on a rant and bashing this game is way too easy. It's to the point where throwing darts at board blindfolded is a lock!

Honestly, when you make comments singing the praise of how good this game is, you're going to hit a nerve with people, and I'm one of them.

Having said that, EA has not had a good track record when it comes to "walking the walk".

[DJ NEO]

Hey guys,

thanks for the comments and for your support.
Feels like I need to clear few things up, so U better know the situation..

1) Im not here to build the hype for NHL 17, I was just too excited after I met some of the developers and it was
just too hard for me to stay shut up
It doest even makes sense for EA business wise if U think about it, they wanna sell NHL 16 now, not 17 right?

2) Maybe some of U are wondering why they picked me, because Im from Czech republic and thats in Europe, not North America. Well, I was surprised too. I've heard some voices on the internet that we Gamechangers feel so lucky to go to the event that we would hype the game no matter what.

Well, maybe it will surprise U, but my 1st answer was "NO".
I felt really pleased and honored to b invited to the studio of a game which I follow from NHL 93, but as many of U guys I felt this is more PR thing than that I could really change anything.
Which is cool Ya know, for a fan that lives few hours from Vancover, but not for someone who is not exactly flying enthusiast as me and lives in another continent

I also asked them if its really not a problem that Im not very used to speak in english. Believe me, it is quite
a difference to write or read in foreign language than try to make a point, face to face in front of 10+ other
people.
So I was kinda worried that I will travel this far just to look like completely idiot. There is zero fun
factor in it even for a hardcore guy like me hah

But then Shay, community manager, asked me if Im really sure, that I were requested specifically by the
development team for insights into the single player modes, offline GM etc and I said to myself that maybe they are actually really serious about getting feedback.


3) There is no tabu on event.
U can say or ask anything. If U think we just sit there, afraid to ask anything important, U are wrong.
Rammer specifically said that we should b open as possible, thats why we're there.

I can give U few examples if U want.
They asked us something like how we felt about NHL 15 Gamechangers program, I said that I felt like this is just a PR thing.. they asked why I feel this way, I answered that I dont get why to make events like this just to get feedback, if there are forums full of great feedback from community already.

There was a question what we think about NHL 16.. I answered that I dont play it too much, cuz to me it just feel
too much like 15.5, that there is just not enough progress made for someone who played NHL 15 a lot.

Sometimes I felt I was even too much impolite, not that I wanted to, but with my limited language skills I was
just happy I made a point
But hey, they didnt kicked me, so they are good people!

Seriously tho, it was a great disccussion. Sometimes I kinda stopped and just look around telling myself if it is
really happening or Im just dreaming. I wish U guys could experince that too, it was awesome.

4) EA vs. 2K, who is more hardcore?!

Sometimes I read nice comments that Im true SIM guy (or whatever) just because Im a 2K guy. Hey Ven, good to see U here
Venom is probably the most "2K guy" U can meet on internet We had many great and not so great disccussions on good old (and dead) 2khockey.net forum.

We had a great times with 2k hockey and a lot of frustration with the game aswell. We criticize the game to the bones, the game was far from perfect aswell as EAs version of hockey. But thats another story.

What I wanna say, is if U go to my history on 2k forums, I've always said that I like both series for different reasons. Until NHL 13 came up my favorite hockey sim was NHL 2K10, even with many bugs it had. And I still play it from time to time.

But the truth is that before that I didnt even knew about 2K and I bought and played every NHL game from EA sports on PC. Then bought 360 just to play nextgen NHL 07, cuz the PC version was terrible (and thats why pc version died btw., not that there is no pc fanbase).

My point is that I was little allergic to 2K fans snobbery that time and I dont like it even now..
At the time Nhl 2k10 was much deeper and better sim than Nhl 10 imo.

Now back to the event and why Im optimistic..

Well, thats a mix of things. Some are bigger some are very little, a lot is just my impressions..
Remember the 1st event was just a brainstorming.

Its their attitude, how they see things, how they think about the community, what they know about my work, why
the actually picked me etc. etc.

I' ll try to b honest as I can, but at the same time I feel like there were few things during our privat and brutaly honest conversations that should just stay out of public. Not because we signed anything or that they asked us to not talk about it, but simple because it wouldnt b right.

I was quite sceptical about the future of NHL. There were years when I thought the series took huge steps forward like NHL 11 (passing) and NHL 13 (skating, presentation, some AI), to be followed with quite abysmall boring arcade games like NHL 12 and 14, where they almost destroyed everything good they build.

It was just weird, bizzare, I didnt understand it. It looked like the series lacked any vision or leadership.
NHL 15 and 16 to me feels like a beautiful game with very solid puck physics. Something that could b really special in future, if they have enough power, money and SUPPORT from their real fans.

They need to stick to their vision tho, fight for it little if needed!

Guys like Ben Ross (gameplay and presentation producer) knows what is hockey about, whats the REAL speed of hockey and where agility of skating should b set, he knows that its not possible for a player to change direction without slowing down, he knows how fast should players pass or shoot the puck depending on their puck, momentum and body possession, how important is the AI.

He knows that good AI does not mean they should cheat with unrealistic rocket passing and magnetic puck. He knows very well that its not fun to try to defend the same cheap tactics online or play against the robotic AI that do the same thing again and again.

He knows too that goalies should not deny the laws of physics to make a save. He would love to build a game where the puck is loose and each player feels unique and have individuality.
He know that dynamic realtime presentation is more important then cheap and repetetive prerendered cutscenes.

I could go on and on. Thats why I feel optimistic.

Its funny. there where a times as we spoke together when I felt like I speak with myself haha, why the hell Im
even there, he dont need me to tell him anything, he knows it all and better than me

It is natural that not everyone wants a pure hockey simulation.
And thats fine, who am I to tell U how to play your videogame, right?

U dont have to feel wrong that U like fast paced arcade action.

But what I truly believe is very important is to finally start to give the things right names. If U like to play arcade game, dont call it hardcore or even simulation.

That so called "Hardcore mode" is not hardcore mode at all. Its still way too far from being realistic and
authentic to real sport.

This mode should have all cheats and "helps" off by default. Dont try to script anything. Dont create the
gameplay, create the realistic physics engine and let the physics create game itself!

And than give us tools to b a virtual hockey player. That means defensive/offensive skill stick and realistic skating engine. And of course stats needs to feel realistic too.
The 10 min at least per period is optimal for hardcore mode.

And when we are at it, I hate this name
Why just dont call it "Simulation"?

So I suggest these 3 modes:

CASUAL (offline)
GAME (offline/online 5 min.)
SIMULATION (offline/ online 10 min.)


Okay I think I said enough for today
Cheers!