INCREDIBLE!

[Boltman]

Scoreboard


Braylon 55


Grunt & Novastar combined 0





That was just pure domination, simple as that.







For the record, I have nothing against Grunt or Novastar before either of you start bashing. It is just the facts, his argument is concrete. He just has his facts down and is a better person at articulating his points. (To a person of reasonable knowledge, that is.)

[NovaStar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boltman

Scoreboard Braylon 55 Grunt & Novastar combined 0 That was just pure domination, simple as that. For the record, I have nothing against Grunt or Novastar before either of you start bashing. It is just the facts, his argument is concrete. He just has his facts down and is a better person at articulating his points. (To a person of reasonable knowledge, that is.)

What are you his cheeleader? Or is it really you (Braylon) with an alter ego. If my points fly over both you and Braylon's head I apologize for not recognizing the density of you both. However, your post only strengthens your density and his "moron" attack only strengthened his. Neither Grunt nor I have anything to prove to you, we simply stated what we feel. Obviously, he works for ea sports or is to blinded to realize that ea's move hurts all gamers, or he could be an idiot like you. Again, if my analogies flew over your head I will type slower and use simple ones next time. You can go put your skirt back on, get your pom poms and send up a cheer, there is a time out.

[Braylon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boltman

Scoreboard Braylon 55 Grunt & Novastar combined 0 That was just pure domination, simple as that. For the record, I have nothing against Grunt or Novastar before either of you start bashing. It is just the facts, his argument is concrete. He just has his facts down and is a better person at articulating his points. (To a person of reasonable knowledge, that is.)

Thank you for the kind words. I feel bad for them, their favorite game company lost out and their favorite games aren't going to be the same anymore. From a business standpoint, the EA deals were fascinating. I disagree that EA won't innovate, I think these deals will do more to help EA innovate than the competition from VC.

And yes, VC lost money on football this year. Their sales were good, but when you're taking a loss on every unit you sell, that isn't exactly a good thing for the 'ol bottom line. As TT themselves said, this was an "investment year." They wanted to establish a user base for this game so they could go head to head with EA at the $50 price point next year. They were willing to take a sizeable loss to do so and they did. They also pissed EA off, and now we see what happens when you do that.

The bottom line is that my favorite sports games - EA for everything but hockey - are going to have the ESPN front end now. I am pumped about that.

[HMcCoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

I'm not following you. Are you saying that EA somehow manipulated the NFL into deciding that they would only offer an exclusive licensing agreement?

Electronic Arts initiated the deal with the Players Association. The NFL decided they wanted a peice of the pie. They say, "Hey, since you guys are (reportedly) ready to fork over a Billion dollars for the players..we (the NFL) wanna make a deal too!"

EA didn't have to manipulate the NFL. The league saw an opportunity (an EA instigated opportunity )...and went for it.

The funniest part is how they tried to spin the negative pub by saying that the reason they brokered the deal was to avoid the devaluation of their brand through competition....Thats laughable.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Braylon

Thank you for the kind words. I feel bad for them, their favorite game company lost out and their favorite games aren't going to be the same anymore. From a business standpoint, the EA deals were fascinating. I disagree that EA won't innovate, I think these deals will do more to help EA innovate than the competition from VC. And yes, VC lost money on football this year. Their sales were good, but when you're taking a loss on every unit you sell, that isn't exactly a good thing for the 'ol bottom line. As TT themselves said, this was an "investment year." They wanted to establish a user base for this game so they could go head to head with EA at the $50 price point next year. They were willing to take a sizeable loss to do so and they did. They also pissed EA off, and now we see what happens when you do that. The bottom line is that my favorite sports games - EA for everything but hockey - are going to have the ESPN front end now. I am pumped about that.

Finally, you are a fan of EA. I am a fan of good sport games. TT didnt lose money on this game because Sega covered the cost for development and TT was the publisher with an option to buy.

EA will innovate? I remember when Madden 98 was sprites and EA was saying how it was impossible to have 22 polygon players on the field at the same time then Gameday 98 came out with the first polygon game. On the back cover of Madden 98 EA marketing department came out with a term called v-poly, standing for virtual polygons. Everyone knew it was still sprites.

Madden 99 they had their first polygon games. Without Gameday I really dont believe that madden would have stayed with sprites the whole PS1 generation. Madden 99 then came out with their first franchise mode without competition I dont think these things would have happen and yes Madden was the best pro football game for the next few years.

Then came the 2k series on the dreamcast and raised the bar. I think that motivated Tiburon to make a better game. We talk about EA vs TT but it really Tiburon vs Visual Concepts. Two development houses that want to develop the best game they can but I think EA is much more conservative and dont let Tiburon develop the game we all expect. EA has taken baby steps and short cuts with their games.

I am a paying customers since Madden 95 but I know EA as a company can get lazy and are more than willing to gives us roster updates with "new features that they took out of prior games with NEW NAMES.

ESPN is my fav game for this year it does mean that next year NCAA/Madden wont be my game of the year. Until this year NCAA series has been the best football game out. Branding only go so far and gameplay and innovative features makes a diffrence.

Oh yeah, I want Madden to be the best game that it could be, do you think Madden met it potential this year? Not if you had a X-BOX. Sad.

Peace

PS

EA still over paid for the NFL/ESPN deal. Only time will tell. Cant wait for EA Poga/poker games. Right

[HMcCoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Braylon

And yes, VC lost money on football this year. Their sales were good, but when you're taking a loss on every unit you sell, that isn't exactly a good thing for the 'ol bottom line. As TT themselves said, this was an "investment year." They wanted to establish a user base for this game so they could go head to head with EA at the $50 price point next year. They were willing to take a sizeable loss to do so and they did. They also pissed EA off, and now we see what happens when you do that.

Show me please.

Show me how shipping and manufacturing on each game was OVER 20.00. Show me facts that prove that Visual concepts...a developer, not a publisher, lost money on copyright royalties stemming from moving over 2,600,000 units. If they lost even 1.00 per unit, thats a catastrophic 26,000,000.00 loss. Show me that, please. You seem like a real smart guy, so I'm sure you can show me the stockholders' yearly reports referring to that horrendous setback.

And also, please explain your reasoning for your expectations that EA will change a business model that has stressed retaining familiararity while implementing "incremental change"...why a company would revolutionize their product on the heels of eliminating all of their competition, after failing to do so for 15 consecutive years.

This all must feel like quite a coup for all of the stalwart Maddenites who have been scrambling to justify another critical and mindshare-growth maiming at the hands of Visual Concepts. But ask y'self...What have YOU won in the long-haul?...without VC's market-leading innovation, you STILL wouldn't be seeing ESPN inditia on your favorite game.

Sadly, that seems to go right over your smug widdle head.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by HMcCoy

Show me please. Show me how shipping and manufacturing on each game was OVER 20.00. Show me facts that prove that Visual concepts...a developer, not a publisher, lost money on copyright royalties stemming from moving over 2,600,000 units. If they lost even 1.00 per unit, thats a catastrophic 26,000,000.00 loss. Show me that, please. You seem like a real smart guy, so I'm sure you can show me the stockholders' yearly reports referring to that horrendous setback. And also, please explain your reasoning for your expectations that EA will change a business model that has stressed retaining familiararity while implementing "incremental change"...why a company would revolutionize their product on the heels of eliminating all of their competition, after failing to do so for 15 consecutive years. This all must feel like quite a coup for all of the stalwart Maddenites who have been scrambling to justify another critical and mindshare-growth maiming at the hands of Visual Concepts. But ask y'self...What have YOU won in the long-haul?...without VC's market-leading innovation, you STILL wouldn't be seeing ESPN inditia on your favorite game. Sadly, that seems to go right over your smug widdle head.

"incremental changes" you are too kind. I was listening to Madden Nation radio and even one of the guys said that eventhough he didnt play madden, he thought that the game would suffer without competition. If you are Madden fan then you lose.

Madden presentation wasnt awful and ESPN will not help much. I think both tiburon and visual concepts presents their games better than most networks. EA is working on their next generation Madden so have fun with roster updates.

Peace

[spankdatazz22]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but don't forget the strongest evidence by EA themselves. They lowered the prices of their sports games ONLY IN DIRECT COMPETITION WITH VC'S GAMES.

Madden, NHL & Live get a $20 discount (places like Best Buy & Circuit City were consistently offering it for a little less than $29), yet Tiger Woods, FIFA, etc. stay the same price. Forget speculating on how a price cut possibly hurt VC/TT; to me the price drop, along with the numbers noted by HMcCoy, show that EA was outfoxed at nearly every turn this year. It was EA that forced VC/TT to change their strategy this past year, but I think it's far more remarkable, given Madden's dominance in previous years, that VC made EA change THEIR tactics. What I don't get is how people can defend EA, when most are resigned to the fact the game won't improve much this year. When you have such low expectations, ANYTHING that's done will look like significant improvement.