after watching the last 3 videos....they really got it this year.

[rudyjuly2]

While I too found it hard to really see the difference in the videos I did notice something good on the first video almost halfway through. I think Marcus Robinson makes a catch and then fumbles - they show a replay as well. The nice thing about this was that Marcus had the DB beat by 2 yards and the DB stayed beat by 2 yards until the ball got there. Too often in 2K4 the WR would beat the DB badly only to have them have a "super catchup" and be able to knock the ball down. It was one of the negatives in the game that nobody seems to mention.

[booker21]

Quote:

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rudyjuly2 said:
While I too found it hard to really see the difference in the videos I did notice something good on the first video almost halfway through. I think Marcus Robinson makes a catch and then fumbles - they show a replay as well. The nice thing about this was that Marcus had the DB beat by 2 yards and the DB stayed beat by 2 yards until the ball got there. Too often in 2K4 the WR would beat the DB badly only to have them have a "super catchup" and be able to knock the ball down. It was one of the negatives in the game that nobody seems to mention.

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agree with these.

and then they complain about madden (kidding)

[Moegames]

I seriously think this year they will have done enough to make it that "clear" winner. I dont know how many more years in a row it's gonna take madden fans to realize this but honestly ESPN has been outdoing Madden for the last 3 years. Madden is a great playing game but the changes year to year havent been really worth the 50 dollars...ESPN has..it just feels that way to me and it cant explain it but i just feel i get more for my money when playing ESPN then Madden these last few years.

I enjoy madden myself..heck i been playing madden since Genesis/SNES loyally and im 29 years old now and still gaming just as hard with sports videogames but i honestly can no longer deny ESPN's better playing game and beter looking game. Honestly i think the die hard madden fans just got brain washed by EAsports..luckily i havent and am able to enjoy Madden but yet know inside there is indeed a better game out there..which goes by the name of ESPN NFL.

[booker21]

i can´t give a respond to wich game is better this year.
i like what i have seen on videos so far, but i want to play the game, move the player and make those cut to see if the player have better, smoother movment and running than last year.

i think they only thing that keep espn behind madden is the controls over the players, i still feel espn is slugish. of course that is my opinion. but like i say i think they got this year, but before give my final word i want to play the game and do those cuts myself.

i don´t think madden is a bad game..in fact if i has to choose one of the 2 right now...i choose madden for some reasons but consider this is a espn forum i won´t explain why coz at the end if a matter of choises.

and i don´t think ea has washed our brains. Since i didn´t like madden before year 2001 or 2002 PC were they change the engine and make the game a lott better. Previous years i was a FBpro fan. until now no game has the sim that fbpro had.

[ODogg]

Quote:

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booker21 said:
i can´t give a respond to wich game is better this year.
i like what i have seen on videos so far, but i want to play the game, move the player and make those cut to see if the player have better, smoother movment and running than last year.

i think they only thing that keep espn behind madden is the controls over the players, i still feel espn is slugish. of course that is my opinion. but like i say i think they got this year, but before give my final word i want to play the game and do those cuts myself.

i don´t think madden is a bad game..in fact if i has to choose one of the 2 right now...i choose madden for some reasons but consider this is a espn forum i won´t explain why coz at the end if a matter of choises.

and i don´t think ea has washed our brains. Since i didn´t like madden before year 2001 or 2002 PC were they change the engine and make the game a lott better. Previous years i was a FBpro fan. until now no game has the sim that fbpro had.

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I agree with this. I somewhat resent the implication (and arrogance I seem to see) by most Sega fans that just because you like EA's game better you're "brainwashed" or you just are ignorant to a game that's better that you've either "don't know about" or if you know about it then "you just don't know how to play it". The bottom line is there are alot of people out there who own both, have played both enough to know which game they like and simply prefer Madden.

With that being said I think it boils down to what annoys you most in regards to flaws in the games. Madden is certainly not without flaws, in fact it has quite a few of them, but neither is ESPN. I don't like the sluggish feel either in ESPN, I don't care for the playbooks, the "stick in the @ss running animations, floaty balls (yes they're better now but still not right in 2004 IMO) and ultimately just the look of the players.

My point here isn't to flame on ESPN but just to state my thoughts on the fact that it's all subjective. It all comes down to what you like for some people, it's not as black and white as "the only people who don't like ESPN are those who don't know about it" which I seem to see alot in ESPN forums.

I harbor hope that ESPN has corrected alot of the flaws people are saying they've corrected. I do the same for Madden every year. And every year in both Sega and EA forums I see everyone saying everything is fixed but every year the games come out and everything isn't fixed so I think people have a lot of unrealistic expectations. I'll still buy both Sega and EA's game no doubt this year but unless ESPN has changed more than they have from 2002 to 2003 and 2003 to 2004 I imagine I'll still be playing a good deal more of Madden.

[coogrfan]

Quote:

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ODogg said:

Quote:

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booker21 said:
i can´t give a respond to wich game is better this year.
i like what i have seen on videos so far, but i want to play the game, move the player and make those cut to see if the player have better, smoother movment and running than last year.

i think they only thing that keep espn behind madden is the controls over the players, i still feel espn is slugish. of course that is my opinion. but like i say i think they got this year, but before give my final word i want to play the game and do those cuts myself.

i don´t think madden is a bad game..in fact if i has to choose one of the 2 right now...i choose madden for some reasons but consider this is a espn forum i won´t explain why coz at the end if a matter of choises.

and i don´t think ea has washed our brains. Since i didn´t like madden before year 2001 or 2002 PC were they change the engine and make the game a lott better. Previous years i was a FBpro fan. until now no game has the sim that fbpro had.

---

I agree with this. I somewhat resent the implication (and arrogance I seem to see) by most Sega fans that just because you like EA's game better you're "brainwashed" or you just are ignorant to a game that's better that you've either "don't know about" or if you know about it then "you just don't know how to play it". The bottom line is there are alot of people out there who own both, have played both enough to know which game they like and simply prefer Madden.

With that being said I think it boils down to what annoys you most in regards to flaws in the games. Madden is certainly not without flaws, in fact it has quite a few of them, but neither is ESPN. I don't like the sluggish feel either in ESPN, I don't care for the playbooks, the "stick in the @ss running animations, floaty balls (yes they're better now but still not right in 2004 IMO) and ultimately just the look of the players.

My point here isn't to flame on ESPN but just to state my thoughts on the fact that it's all subjective. It all comes down to what you like for some people, it's not as black and white as "the only people who don't like ESPN are those who don't know about it" which I seem to see alot in ESPN forums.

I harbor hope that ESPN has corrected alot of the flaws people are saying they've corrected. I do the same for Madden every year. And every year in both Sega and EA forums I see everyone saying everything is fixed but every year the games come out and everything isn't fixed so I think people have a lot of unrealistic expectations. I'll still buy both Sega and EA's game no doubt this year but unless ESPN has changed more than they have from 2002 to 2003 and 2003 to 2004 I imagine I'll still be playing a good deal more of Madden.

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My sentiments exactly.

[Kanobi]

Yeah, theres nothing wrong with still preferring Madden over ESPNFL. Play the game you like and leave it at that.

Personally, I've always felt espnfl was the more advanced simulation of football. The number 1 complaint about espnfl gameplay was the lack of transitional anims and momentum which look to have been added based on the vids and e3 impressions. Defense looks faster and smarter this yr also ..another common complaint from 2k4.

On paper, Madden looks to have made some nice strides in that regard but from watching the vids...nothing has really impressed me as a signifcant upgrade or advancement in the series in terms of gameplay.

[Symtex]

Quote:

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coogrfan said:

Quote:

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ODogg said:

Quote:

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booker21 said:
i can´t give a respond to wich game is better this year.
i like what i have seen on videos so far, but i want to play the game, move the player and make those cut to see if the player have better, smoother movment and running than last year.

i think they only thing that keep espn behind madden is the controls over the players, i still feel espn is slugish. of course that is my opinion. but like i say i think they got this year, but before give my final word i want to play the game and do those cuts myself.

i don´t think madden is a bad game..in fact if i has to choose one of the 2 right now...i choose madden for some reasons but consider this is a espn forum i won´t explain why coz at the end if a matter of choises.

and i don´t think ea has washed our brains. Since i didn´t like madden before year 2001 or 2002 PC were they change the engine and make the game a lott better. Previous years i was a FBpro fan. until now no game has the sim that fbpro had.

---

I agree with this. I somewhat resent the implication (and arrogance I seem to see) by most Sega fans that just because you like EA's game better you're "brainwashed" or you just are ignorant to a game that's better that you've either "don't know about" or if you know about it then "you just don't know how to play it". The bottom line is there are alot of people out there who own both, have played both enough to know which game they like and simply prefer Madden.

With that being said I think it boils down to what annoys you most in regards to flaws in the games. Madden is certainly not without flaws, in fact it has quite a few of them, but neither is ESPN. I don't like the sluggish feel either in ESPN, I don't care for the playbooks, the "stick in the @ss running animations, floaty balls (yes they're better now but still not right in 2004 IMO) and ultimately just the look of the players.

My point here isn't to flame on ESPN but just to state my thoughts on the fact that it's all subjective. It all comes down to what you like for some people, it's not as black and white as "the only people who don't like ESPN are those who don't know about it" which I seem to see alot in ESPN forums.

I harbor hope that ESPN has corrected alot of the flaws people are saying they've corrected. I do the same for Madden every year. And every year in both Sega and EA forums I see everyone saying everything is fixed but every year the games come out and everything isn't fixed so I think people have a lot of unrealistic expectations. I'll still buy both Sega and EA's game no doubt this year but unless ESPN has changed more than they have from 2002 to 2003 and 2003 to 2004 I imagine I'll still be playing a good deal more of Madden.

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My sentiments exactly.

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I totaly disagree with the floaty pass that Madden player keeps refering too. I though the Player running animation wasn't that bad at all. They says that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. That is why I usely don't try to argue to mucch about who's the best games each year. I prefer the feel of ESPN and just can't get used to Madden way. Doesn't mean Madden is worst then the other. just different.