MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[AC]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Well I guess if you wanna include Cashner as trading AGon then sure. But I was more so talking about Rizzo.

Even with Cashner included, the Padres traded a Cy Young winner, an incredibly solid young pitcher, a gold glove all star 1B, and 2 solid RPs for a stud pitcher and an ok prospect

Also some wins out of Clayton Richard, Yonder Alonso, and RPs have no value lol

Jays offered up Syndergaard for Latos. You guys wanted Alonso more.

How are the Royals going to afford both Shields AND Sale?

Shields is 100% gone because the Royals can't afford him right now. If they got Sale, they REALLY can't afford him lol.

Sale is locked up on a pretty cheap contract.

The team trading for him would absolutely take on bad contracts to free up room for you guys, too.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Also some wins out of Clayton Richard, Yonder Alonso, and RPs have no value lol

Jays offered up Syndergaard for Latos. You guys wanted Alonso more.

Alonso is not a win lol. You could dig deep and say "oh we got some decent starters" but every team has decent starters. For trading away so much strong talent I would except more than decent starters.

It was Grandal too, both of which I would trade for a sack of marbles.

[AC]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Alonso is not a win lol. You could dig deep and say "oh we got some decent starters" but every team has decent starters. For trading away so much strong talent I would except more than decent starters.

It was Grandal too, both of which I would trade for a sack of marbles.

No I mean wins as in actual wins contributed to the team. And Grandal is a good player.

[k_mac]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Sale is locked up on a pretty cheap contract.

The team trading for him would absolutely take on bad contracts to free up room for you guys, too.

This.. It's like a 5 year 34 million dollar deal. Super team friendly considering Sale's a stud and could command much more than that now if he was a FA. Agreed that Shields would stay if they had Sale.

I understand though, as I wouldn't want my team to sell the farm to pick up a guy. But, the Cubs are nowhere near thinking they're in contention.

Speaking of the Cubs and selling the farm, I scratch my head every time a David Price deal with us included comes up. I don't, and will never understand that.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

No I mean wins as in actual wins contributed to the team. And Grandal is a good player.

A lot of players can get you some wins. There is nothing special about those guys lol.

and no Grandal is doo doo. He got busted for PEDs plus last year he hit .216 and this year he is hitting .204

[BA2929]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Sale is locked up on a pretty cheap contract.

The team trading for him would absolutely take on bad contracts to free up room for you guys, too.

Well if we're going to throw in even more contracts, the Royals aren't going to have a team outside of Shields and Sale.

Honestly, the Royals don't have any bad contracts outside of Guthrie, and if we throw him in as well then the Royals still have to pony up more cash for a 4th and 5th starter since now we're talking about 4/5ths of the 2015 rotation being traded.

So its Sale/Shields/Vargas/two random guys.

Shields and Sale will be combined for roughly $30-35 million a year in 2016 and beyond. Add in Vargas and his $8.5 million deal, and that's $39-45 million a year for three guys.

The Royals pay roll isn't even $100 million. And by that time they'll have to decide on to extend Hosmer or not, so they'll have to factor in that cash as well. Plus doing the same with Alex Gordon, who will be making $12.5 million the next two seasons.

So basically they'd be spending 60% of their payroll on 4 guys for a few years.




The Royals aren't dealing for Sale unless they keep Ventura and Zimmer or Duffy.

[AC]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Honestly, the Royals don't have any bad contracts outside of Guthrie, and if we throw him in as well then the Royals still have to pony up more cash for a 4th and 5th starter since now we're talking about 4/5ths of the 2015 rotation being traded. .

White Sox would probably take back Guthrie and send a starter.

[BA2929]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

White Sox would probably take back Guthrie and send a starter.

So we're looking at possibly a trade that looks like this, that I would consider being good for both teams:

CWS gives: Sale/some SP that is major league ready but not exciting. Someone who projects to a 4th/5th SP. Maybe a throw in A ball guy or two to fill out the Royals system. (I'm sorry but I don't know the White Sox organization very well)

KC gives: Guthrie/Zimmer/Mondesi/Bonifacio and one other of Duffy/Adam/Manaea/Almonte. Nobody wants Starling. He'll be playing QB at Nebraska in a few years most likely anyway. Maybe they throw in a flyer like Brett Eibner. I doubt they deal Dozier since they just drafted him. Maybe flip-flop Mondesi or Bonifacio for Manaea. Depending on if they want a SP or a fielder in return.

That's 4 top prospects and Guthrie and maybe another guy like Eibner. That should be enough, I'd say. The Royals only gave up 4 guys for for Shields/Davis/Johnson.

I see the Royals refusing to throw in Ventura or else the deal is squashed.

How's that look to you guys?

Edit: I believe if Sale is traded to the Royals, you'd have to make sure the Royals at least put in an offer for Shields.

I have to say, I didn't want it to happen and couldn't fathom it being realistic whatsoever before, but you guys have talked me into it. Now I really want this to happen in real life lol.

[AC]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

CWS receives:
Almonte, Manaea, Mondesi, Zimmer, Bonifacio, Guthrie

KC receives:
Sale, Johnson

I still feel like it isn't enough for the White Sox, honestly. I think they need a top 10 prospect coming back, or both of Zimmer/Ventura.

[stlcards234]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

The Billy Beane philosophy.

You don't have your priorities straight if you're worried about justifying your moves to the public.

Sorry to rehash an old debate, but I just found it too interesting to resist! The following is pure opinion, but I'd like to share it to provide another perspective. And please feel free to critique!


I think trading within the division should be encouraged as well, on paper. If you think you are getting the better of a deal, take it. Weaken a division opponent and strengthen your own team- well obviously!


Problem is that most trades never have a clear cut winner and a loser at the time they are made. So the reasoning that you are winning and making an opponent lose isn't quite as valid as one might think. If a trade happens, both teams think they are winning.


Lets fast forward and look at what possible consequences there might be if you make a trade within the division. If you make a trade, one of four things could happen if you trade within the division (in hindsight):
1) Your team is better, division opponent worse (all relatively speaking)
2) Your team is better, division opponent is better
3) Your team is worse, division opponent is worse
4) Your team is worse, division opponent is better


Now lets take this a step further... What does this mean for GM job security? I understand one shouldn't make decisions based on public approval- but when the team owner starts losing money because the GM alienated the fanbase by making bad moves- you better bet that the GM will also suffer the consequences! Using the scenarios above:


1) Good outcome for your team
2) Neutral/Status quo: both you and your opponent got better, still the same playing field; also the scenario by which most trade ideally should happen since both GM's think their respective teams are getting better
3) Neutral/Status quo: both teams got worse, still relatively level playing field
4) Bad outcome for your team


Results 2-3 are undesirable, why? They essentially maintain the status quo, meaning that you aren't really gaining anything at all- so why make the trade? Result 4 is also undesirable for obvious reasons. From a real life standpoint, results 2-4 only add risk to a GM's job security.


If a GM isn't making moves to better a team, he will be gone.


If a GM is making moves that only maintain the status quo, then he will be gone also- otherwise, why would have the owner switched GM's in the first place? Example: Regime 1's GM gets fired with a .500 winning percentage. Regime 2's GM makes several big trades and still only nets a .500 winning percentage. Is GM 2's job really that safe? (Need more context I know, but hopefully this gets my point across on why maintaining the status quo is not a desired outcome of any trade.)


Result 1 is what you are obviously wanting to do, but also one of the hardest outcomes to achieve. In this scenario, you would have to be able to accurate predict both a) that the player(s) you receive benefit your team/progress, AND b) that the player(s) you are sending don't benefit the other team to the extent that yours does/regress. Pretty hard!


Now if you trade outside your division, you can be guaranteed that you won't be helping nor hurting a division opponent. In this case, you only have to be able to accurately predict a) that the player(s) you receive benefit your team/progress. This is a lot more feasible than what I mentioned in the above paragraph.


In conclusion, I do think that intra-division trades can realistically happen and should happen. They can definitely benefit teams. But there is simply less risk involved when dealing with out of division teams. This is not a philosophy that is confined to the MLB; other major sports adopt the same idealogy- for better or for worse.


Again, this is all my opinion/perspective. I realize I simplified a lot of things, but for my internal debate, I think there is more benefit to trading outside the division than within.

[BA2929]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

CWS receives:
Almonte, Manaea, Mondesi, Zimmer, Bonifacio, Guthrie

KC receives:
Sale, Johnson

I still feel like it isn't enough for the White Sox, honestly. I think they need a top 10 prospect coming back, or both of Zimmer/Ventura.

Yea you're probably right. If they did deal Ventura and Zimmer, they'd almost HAVE to re-sign Shields or else they would be royally screwed.

If they did deal Ventura they'd probably take Manaea off the table and throw as much money as possible at Shields at the end of the season. Not bringing back Billy Butler would help.

So CWS receives: Almonte, Ventura, Mondesi, Zimmer, Bonifacio, Guthrie

KC receives: Sale/Johnson and they'd have to get back at least another B level prospect if they're dealing Ventura, imo. PLUS resign Shields or the 2015 rotation would be a complete joke. Can't go into a season with Jason Vargas as your #2 and expect to win.

[InTheoWeTrust]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Hey guys, playing with the Yankees here. I'm looking for a SP that's relatively young that can fill in next to Tanaka as Sabathia and Kuroda start to decline. Do the Yankees have anyone that could land them like a Chris Sale, Sonny Gray, Shelby Miller or someone else young, talented, and with lots of potential? I like Andrew Cashner too but I wouldn't consider him really as an ace replacement. Thanks guys.

[AC]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I reject your axioms - that most trades don't have at least somewhat clear winners, that one bad move results in large decreases in profit, that status quo is undesirable in all cases, that one move like this can lead to dismissal in all cases, that there is less risk involved when dealing with other teams, and that teams from other sports adopt the same ideology - at the hand. This makes it far beyond possible to have much of an argument. Seeing as it's 11:34, I'm just gonna sign off. I don't think I can agree with your post.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Hey guys, playing with the Yankees here. I'm looking for a SP that's relatively young that can fill in next to Tanaka as Sabathia and Kuroda start to decline. Do the Yankees have anyone that could land them like a Chris Sale, Sonny Gray, Shelby Miller or someone else young, talented, and with lots of potential? I like Andrew Cashner too but I wouldn't consider him really as an ace replacement. Thanks guys.

Yankees can't realistically land any of those guys including Cashner. You should target some t3 pitchers

[InTheoWeTrust]

Re: MLB 14 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Yankees can't realistically land any of those guys including Cashner. You should target some t3 pitchers

Ok I wasn't really expecting much. Could you give some examples on what a tier 3 pitcher would be?