MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

[kenp86]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Okay, we're not going to agree on Tomas so I'll move on from trying to find value there. With that said, I am going to include him in a deal directly with OAK and skip DET. You can let me know if this is still too much.

OAK Receives
LF - Yasmany Tomas (28yr, 84 OVR, B POT)
CF - PJ Crow (22yr, 74 OVR, B POT | '17 DRAFTEE)
1B - Fritz Oakes (20yr, 60OVR, B POT | '17 DRAFTEE)
SP - Archie Bradley (26yr, 76 OVR, A POT)
SP - Cody Reed (22yr, 67 OVR, C POT)
SP - Curtis Sutton (19yr, 56 OVR, B POT | '18 DRAFTEE)

ARI Receives
SP - Sonny Gray (29yr, 87 OVR, B POT)
RP - Sean DooLittle (32yr, 82 OVR, B POT)

Oakland is devoid of talent right now. They played a fresh 18 year old in CF last year that has D potential and has already seeing a regression in his attributes. Mark Canaha is their only legitimate OF, as Davis finished 2018 with a .217 AVG. They have nothing but 25YR+ C/D prospects in the OF outside of one 21YR B Prospect who looks to be far away (56 OVR). Crow is both younger and rated better than Verdugo at the moment. I could throw him out in the OF if I wasn't intent on keeping Verdugo. They have a few good pitching prospects but I help that a little in providing Bradley, Reed and Sutton. They have some decent prospects at SS and 2B but they have nobody coming up the pipe at first. Healy has played decent but he's nearing 28 and barely has a 70 OVR with a .244 AVG. I send them Oakes there.

Thoughts?

They have upcoming talent. Barreto at short (likely to be moved to 2B.) Matt Olsen listed as OF but plays 1B which will probably be where he lands, Matt Chapman is a power hitting 3B with a rocket arm, jharel cotton/frankie montas/aj puk all upcoming pitchers with high potential (cotton already up irl). Not sure where all these guys are if youre saying they have nothing in the system.

But to me, no way they take tomas and that contract. Theyre not contending so no reason to take him. Now depending on how Gray and Doolittle are pitching, if theyre both pitching well, take Tomas out of the deal and it looks right. If they're pitching average or below, crow, oakes and reed might get you them

[MrSerendipity]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

They have upcoming talent. Barreto at short (likely to be moved to 2B.) Matt Olsen listed as OF but plays 1B which will probably be where he lands, Matt Chapman is a power hitting 3B with a rocket arm, jharel cotton/frankie montas/aj puk all upcoming pitchers with high potential (cotton already up irl). Not sure where all these guys are if youre saying they have nothing in the system.

But to me, no way they take tomas and that contract. Theyre not contending so no reason to take him. Now depending on how Gray and Doolittle are pitching, if theyre both pitching well, take Tomas out of the deal and it looks right. If they're pitching average or below, crow, oakes and reed might get you them

When I said devoid, I meant the Oakland MLB roster. They definitely have talent up the middle and in the rotation. I actually think they're going to be a pretty stout club in 4-5 more seasons in my Franchise (Currently in 2019 Off-Season). I thought of including Urena but they don't need him. Yeah, Olson is listed in RF for me. I could move him to first but I think they're getting a win/win if they can keep him in RF and get Oakes at 1st. I was really excited about drafting Oakes but my #1 Pick in 18 was also a First Baseman who has 96 POT and a 67 OVR at age 22. That made Oakes movable.

With that said, they're just week in the OF as far as prospects are concerned. Olson is already in the MLB and he's still sitting at a 66 OVR. Gray and DooLittle both had really good seasons. I'm fine with removing Tomas from the deal, I'm just trying to find a way to part with him and Peralta that doesn't include DFA'ing the both of them.

[jdiaz891]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Both of the Robertson packages are far too much. He couldn't get Fedde and Soto and Robbie Ray alone is more valuable than him. Teams willing to trade for a closer don't do so by weakening their rotation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Operation Sports mobile app

David Robertson to the Dbacks for Soto was a deal I got a few pages ago. I think it's a good deal for a guy on the wrong side of 30 with 1 yr left on a team going no where


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[GamecocksLaw17]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

David Robertson to the Dbacks for Soto was a deal I got a few pages ago. I think it's a good deal for a guy on the wrong side of 30 with 1 yr left on a team going no where


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I was saying he couldn't get both Soto and Fedde. He could probably get just Soto

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Operation Sports mobile app

[jdiaz891]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Playing as the White Soxs . I'm would like to deal Todd Frazier to the Mets. The Mets are tied for 1st with the nationals. Some how David wright is not injured but him and Jose Reyes along with pretty much anyone they have on the bench that can play 3rd base are not hitting well at all each hovering between .190 and .238 . I think Todd Frazier is the piece that can get them that championship that I as a Mets fan is still waiting to see . Todd Frazier is hitting .353 with 17 hrs. Don't remember the stat line as I'm not near my system.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[bryanm1982]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

In my Pirates franchise I'm in the first part of June and I'm 32-26. 5 games out of 1st and in the wild card lead by a couple games. In the first part of April I made a trade for Sonny Gray for Mitch Keller and couple other smaller prospects. So my rotation is below.

Cole 6-3 3.94 era
Gray 3-5 2.95 era
Hutchinson around 4.00 era
Taileson around 3.50 era
Kuhl around 4.00 era

McCutchen is hitting around .260 with 10 HR so far. I'm wanting to try to trade him at the deadline so I can move up Meadows. Meadows was called up for a couple weeks when Marte went down with a injury but struggled in the short span only hitting .200 with 2 HR. The Yankees are in first place by 3 games and lost Chapman to injury for 1-2 months. I went to them offering Gerrit Cole and Tony Watson (Watson can be set up while they move Betances to closer role). They are willing to give me Jordan Montgomery and Aaron Judge. But that trade does not help me with getting room for Meadows. And I would have to trade McCutchen and find a place for him. Is that a good trade for both teams? I would love to try to get Torres from the Yankees. Any thoughts?

[MrSerendipity]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Playing as the White Soxs . I'm would like to deal Todd Frazier to the Mets. The Mets are tied for 1st with the nationals. Some how David wright is not injured but him and Jose Reyes along with pretty much anyone they have on the bench that can play 3rd base are not hitting well at all each hovering between .190 and .238 . I think Todd Frazier is the piece that can get them that championship that I as a Mets fan is still waiting to see . Todd Frazier is hitting .353 with 17 hrs. Don't remember the stat line as I'm not near my system.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

We did a trade between the Twins and Mets that sent Dozier to NY for Gsellman, Lindsay and Molina. That's probably the best trade to work down from. And you will have to work down as Frazier isn't as valuable and he has an expiring contract. Maybe Frazier for Lindsay straight up? Somebody else could help you more.

[jdiaz891]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

We did a trade between the Twins and Mets that sent Dozier to NY for Gsellman, Lindsay and Molina. That's probably the best trade to work down from. And you will have to work down as Frazier isn't as valuable and he has an expiring contract. Maybe Frazier for Lindsay straight up? Somebody else could help you more.

To be completely honest I traded David Robertson to the nationals because they needed a shut down closer to compete but the Met fan in me doesnt wanna see the nationals pull ahead as crazy as that sounds so I'm not looking for a crazy package or anything I'm just looking for a fair trade. Then I'll figure out if I wanna keep Jose Abreu (.305 avg 14 hrs) for another year or trade him as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[dran1984]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Working on a deal for my Orioles franchise

Orioles Get:
CF Travis Jankowski
RP Ryan Buchter

Padres Get:
SP Cody Sedlock #2 Prospect
1B/OF Trey Mancini #5 Prospect
3B Jomar Reyes #10 Prospect

Fair deal? I'm thinking of replacing Sedlock with Hunter Harvey the O's #3 prospect

[hampshirestags]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

His wRC+ was 3 higher than McCutchen with a .08 lesser WAR and higher than Hosmer who had a worse WAR. Yet we've decided that Hosmer is worth a young talented/wildcard MLB ready player plus two. Hosmer is also older and is on an expiring contract.

So I guess I'm just confused as to how these sabermetrics, despite Hosmer being statistically worse, result in a much worse return. If Hosmer is worth a B and two high C's, how is Tomas (coupled with a High C) not worth a single B?

Thus begins the debate on how to use the metrics while valuing a player/trade. I would love to use this data more in here as we discuss potential trades but rarely do we have to come to that level of detail because the majority of deals we throw around are for overpaid "stars" for prospects and this level of research requires a significant investment of time for both parties.

The metrics don't like Tomas. That's not a bad thing as there is a long list of players fans would consider good/very good that the numbers simply don't pan out for. Why is that? Because Tomas (and those other players) don't do well the things sabremetrics likes. Let's talk apples to apples (the players being bounced around are not good comps for Tomas). Let's look at a comparison of Tomas and J.Upton. What, J UP is a 130+mm player, former #1 overall pick?? Yes he is, but a side by side comparison shows us many similarities save 1... Walks. Upton walks at twice the rate of Tomas and since Runs scored are obviously weighted heavily in wRC+, Upton's scores for that category are significantly higher (you can't score if you aren't on base). However, if you look at wOBA for '13-'15 when Upton averaged a oWAR of 22, it is slightly lower than the wOBA for Tomas last year. Why? Because wOBA uses a value of .66 for a BB vs. OBP valuing it a 1.0. Walks...who needs 'em? There are too many factors to list that impact a player scoring a run (lineup, team, etc.) that a particular player has no control over.

That's an extremely brief beginning of a validation debate using metrics. It took 20 minutes or so to tinker with this and I didn't even explain it as well as I should have. In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm still not where I want to be when it comes to using this data as I typically will just hunt for the number that validates my opinion rather than using the data to form an opinion. As I said before, I'd like to see this thread start to work more of this type of thing into the conversation and I will take my own advice and begin to use some of it in my replies.

You gave up on Tomas too quick! He's not as bad as Gamecock is making him out but not as good as you have him (which can be the case with a lot of our conversations). We had the chance to get a good metrics debate going and you blew it Of course I tease, we'll wait for the next one to come around and I'll let Gamecock school me a little.

P.S. You are overpaying for Gray/Doolittle.

[jdiaz891]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

You gave up on Tomas too quick! He's not as bad as Gamecock is making him out but not as good as you have him (which can be the case with a lot of our conversations). We had the chance to get a good metrics debate going and you blew it Of course I tease, we'll wait for the next one to come around and I'll let Gamecock school me a little.

Just curious as to what his value would be . 1 low b? All this talk about how bad he is makes me what him in my line up for some odd reason . Never hit or played the field with him before



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[MrSerendipity]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Thus begins the debate on how to use the metrics while valuing a player/trade. I would love to use this data more in here as we discuss potential trades but rarely do we have to come to that level of detail because the majority of deals we throw around are for overpaid "stars" for prospects and this level of research requires a significant investment of time for both parties.

The metrics don't like Tomas. That's not a bad thing as there is a long list of players fans would consider good/very good that the numbers simply don't pan out for. Why is that? Because Tomas (and those other players) don't do well the things sabremetrics likes. Let's talk apples to apples (the players being bounced around are not good comps for Tomas). Let's look at a comparison of Tomas and J.Upton. What, J UP is a 130+mm player, former #1 overall pick?? Yes he is, but a side by side comparison shows us many similarities save 1... Walks. Upton walks at twice the rate of Tomas and since Runs scored are obviously weighted heavily in wRC+, Upton's scores for that category are significantly higher (you can't score if you aren't on base). However, if you look at wOBA for '13-'15 when Upton averaged a oWAR of 22, it is slightly lower than the wOBA for Tomas last year. Why? Because wOBA uses a value of .66 for a BB vs. OBP valuing it a 1.0. Walks...who needs 'em? There are too many factors to list that impact a player scoring a run (lineup, team, etc.) that a particular player has no control over.

That's an extremely brief beginning of a validation debate using metrics. It took 20 minutes or so to tinker with this and I didn't even explain it as well as I should have. In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm still not where I want to be when it comes to using this data as I typically will just hunt for the number that validates my opinion rather than using the data to form an opinion. As I said before, I'd like to see this thread start to work more of this type of thing into the conversation and I will take my own advice and begin to use some of it in my replies.

You gave up on Tomas too quick! He's not as bad as Gamecock is making him out but not as good as you have him (which can be the case with a lot of our conversations). We had the chance to get a good metrics debate going and you blew it Of course I tease, we'll wait for the next one to come around and I'll let Gamecock school me a little.

P.S. You are overpaying for Gray/Doolittle.

Tomas is still on my Roster but I made the moves for Gray/DooLittle. I'd rather overpay and get the deal done as I've been camped in Off-Season for a few days. Granted I'm playing 30 Team Control so technically I could "fix" this trade. I'm having a hard time bringing myself to DFA someone who hits 30+ dongs a year at age 28. No matter what the sabermetrics say. But fact is, I don't have room. Verdugo was ready last year. I'm expecting a good year out of Robles with a year under his belt and I just bought Harper.

My main thing in working out that deal with DET was trying to get a pitcher that I could include in the deal with OAK that would keep me from losing one of my current or future Rotation guys. Bradley was somebody I was looking at moving into the Bullpen this year as I just don't have faith he'll ever be more than a low 4 ERA kind of guy. But with me unable to move Tomas or Peralta (who seems to have less value than Tomas), I was at a stand still. I'm still at stand still as I simply don't know what to do with these guys. Robles and Verdugo both evolved much faster than I thought they would with Robles being near an 80 OVR and Verdugo eclipsing 70 but having an outstanding season in AAA.

I already DFA'd Owings, who landed in MIA. I DFA'd Moreland who landed in MIN. If those guys got picked up, I'm pretty sure both Tomas and Peralta would as well. Leaving me with nothing to show for the -54 HR, -165 RBI I will have removed from my lineup. -25 HR and -89 RBI when you factor in the Harper signing.

Edit: I'll be real here too. I don't even need much. A questionable prospect or two to fill out my farm system would suffice. I wasn't even going to be keeping the piece I acquired from DET, rather I was trying to keep a piece I already had in my organization. I'm good with decreasing my outlook on value, I'm just having a hard time accepting that Tomas (Peralta as well) has no value.

[MrSerendipity]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Just curious as to what his value would be . 1 low b? All this talk about how bad he is makes me what him in my line up for some odd reason . Never hit or played the field with him before



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I have a hard time hitting with him but when I do, I mash. His numbers worked out to his regular numbers between my played games and simmed games (Note: I simmed 4/5 of this season). He's terrible in the outfield.

[hampshirestags]

Re: MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

Playing as the White Soxs . I'm would like to deal Todd Frazier to the Mets. The Mets are tied for 1st with the nationals. Some how David wright is not injured but him and Jose Reyes along with pretty much anyone they have on the bench that can play 3rd base are not hitting well at all each hovering between .190 and .238 . I think Todd Frazier is the piece that can get them that championship that I as a Mets fan is still waiting to see . Todd Frazier is hitting .353 with 17 hrs. Don't remember the stat line as I'm not near my system.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Frazier having a career year exactly when he and the club needs it? Hitting 100 points higher than his career average over 3000+ AB's? 1 low B SP prospect.

Just curious as to what his value would be . 1 low b? All this talk about how bad he is makes me what him in my line up for some odd reason . Never hit or played the field with him before

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

This year, 2 high C prospects. Keep it in context as my answer is going to be different for the next franchise ('17 vs. '19)

Tomas is still on my Roster but I made the moves for Gray/DooLittle. I'd rather overpay and get the deal done as I've been camped in Off-Season for a few days. Granted I'm playing 30 Team Control so technically I could "fix" this trade. I'm having a hard time bringing myself to DFA someone who hits 30+ dongs a year at age 28. No matter what the sabermetrics say. But fact is, I don't have room. Verdugo was ready last year. I'm expecting a good year out of Robles with a year under his belt and I just bought Harper.

My main thing in working out that deal with DET was trying to get a pitcher that I could include in the deal with OAK that would keep me from losing one of my current or future Rotation guys. Bradley was somebody I was looking at moving into the Bullpen this year as I just don't have faith he'll ever be more than a low 4 ERA kind of guy. But with me unable to move Tomas or Peralta (who seems to have less value than Tomas), I was at a stand still. I'm still at stand still as I simply don't know what to do with these guys. Robles and Verdugo both evolved much faster than I thought they would with Robles being near an 80 OVR and Verdugo eclipsing 70 but having an outstanding season in AAA.

I already DFA'd Owings, who landed in MIA. I DFA'd Moreland who landed in MIN. If those guys got picked up, I'm pretty sure both Tomas and Peralta would as well. Leaving me with nothing to show for the -54 HR, -165 RBI I will have removed from my lineup. -25 HR and -89 RBI when you factor in the Harper signing.

Edit: I'll be real here too. I don't even need much. A questionable prospect or two to fill out my farm system would suffice. I wasn't even going to be keeping the piece I acquired from DET, rather I was trying to keep a piece I already had in my organization. I'm good with decreasing my outlook on value, I'm just having a hard time accepting that Tomas (Peralta as well) has no value.

1 high C SP prospect + lottery ticket. I'd even be willing to go 1 mid C position player + high risk lottery ticket. If he ever learns not to swing at every fastball/change up that comes his way, his value to move up.

I think I've said this before but I just don't like Peralta (now watch the O's trade for him at the break...yeesh).

See how easy it is to throw the metrics out the window and simply value a player based on ambiguous information?

[jdiaz891]

MLB 17 Trade Discussion Thread

I have a hard time hitting with him but when I do, I mash. His numbers worked out to his regular numbers between my played games and simmed games (Note: I simmed 4/5 of this season). He's terrible in the outfield.

Perfect for the DH spot just looking for the long ball. Rebuilding the white soxs so I'll work a trade with the Dbacks for him just to have pop in the line up when I send out the valuable guys


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Edit: fixed misspelling * ... Thanks for all the help being provided guys