CPU Bullpen Management

[Unlucky 13]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Its definately been my experience in the new edition of the game that the CPU is much more willing to leave relievers in the game who have zero energy left. I had one game where I knocked the starter out very early, and they let the long man pitch four or five innings, even though he was totally out of energy the final two. I have yet to see anyone get injured due to that though, and I thought that was supposed to be a big risk.

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

How did you achieve this?

I use 30 team control.

CPU Starter Stamina = maxed.
CPU Reliever Stamina = 8
CPU manager Hook = 2

I have to manually set up the Opponents bullpen, depending on their personnel.

If they have 2 Long Relievers, then I put the highest rated in the top slot, and the second highest rated in the second spot.

MRP I arrange highest rated to lowest rated.

Same with SU. I try to have just 1 pitcher in the SU slot, but if the team has just 1 LRP, then I will put 2 pitchers in the SU positions, highest rated first, then lower rated.

If the Starter gets knocked out before the 5th (or 6th) inning, they will bring in the top rated LRP...UNLESS his stamina is depleted, then they will bring in the second LRP.

If the Starter gets knocked out during the 6th inning, or later, the CPU will bring in the HIGHEST rated MRP. UNLESS their stamina is depleted, then they will bring in the next highest, and so on.

In the 8th inning, they will bring in the SU. 9th inning the CP

Unless the game is either tied, or a blow out, then the CPU will bring in the LRP to "eat innings"

[Unlucky 13]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I use 30 team control.

CPU Starter Stamina = maxed.
CPU Reliever Stamina = 8
CPU manager Hook = 2

I have to manually set up the Opponents bullpen, depending on their personnel.

If they have 2 Long Relievers, then I put the highest rated in the top slot, and the second highest rated in the second spot.

MRP I arrange highest rated to lowest rated.

Same with SU. I try to have just 1 pitcher in the SU slot, but if the team has just 1 LRP, then I will put 2 pitchers in the SU positions, highest rated first, then lower rated.

If the Starter gets knocked out before the 5th (or 6th) inning, they will bring in the top rated LRP...UNLESS his stamina is depleted, then they will bring in the second LRP.

If the Starter gets knocked out during the 6th inning, or later, the CPU will bring in the HIGHEST rated MRP. UNLESS their stamina is depleted, then they will bring in the next highest, and so on.

In the 8th inning, they will bring in the SU. 9th inning the CP

Unless the game is either tied, or a blow out, then the CPU will bring in the LRP to "eat innings"

That seems like a crazy amount of work and effort!

And even though I know that the system is flawed, part of the fun of the game for me is working against the CPU's own management. So if I mess with that, it all feels hollow.

[ripwalk]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

Anyone know if OOTP Baseball handles pitching decisions properly?

Significantly better than this game, yes.

[JDL375]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I think there is but SDS has to put the time in to write the code. Just not a priority for them.

Anyone know if OOTP Baseball handles pitching decisions properly?

I don't know, I think it might be impossible. There is just too much analytics involved now.

I'm a Yankee fan, so I'll use an example of what we do. Chad Green is one of our best relievers. ELECTRIC FASTBALL, One of the best in the game. But they'll pull him, or not use him in certain situations against really good fastball hitters, they'll go with ottavino who has a slider or Zack Briton who throws a sinker.

I don't think there is any attribute in the game that makes a hitter better at hitting a certain type of pitch. You've got power, contact, durability, ect...but most of how good or bad a player is depends on the skill of the GAME PLAYER, not the baseball player in the game.

I do not believe that in MLB The Show that the players are predisposed to be able or not able to hit certain pitches. We have hot/cold zones but I think even those are BS.

So they would need to make some kind of code that's like: Judge can't hit offspeed or Stanton chases at high fastballs and find a way to align the CPU bullpen logic being able to match up the best pitches of the relievers with what the batters can and cannot hit....but then you're handicapping the game because what if I'M a good player, but now I'm going to be hamstrung by the weaknesses of the real life player...maybe I'm really good at timing curveballs and crush them, but Judge can't, so will I not be able to hit curveballs with Judge, but I will be able to hit them with LeMahieu?

I don't even know how the game would be able to do this. You'd have to re-write the whole game, and I don't see any major changes coming to the game until at least the 3rd year on PS5.

[ripwalk]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I don't know, I think it might be impossible. There is just too much analytics involved now.

I'm a Yankee fan, so I'll use an example of what we do. Chad Green is one of our best relievers. ELECTRIC FASTBALL, One of the best in the game. But they'll pull him, or not use him in certain situations against really good fastball hitters, they'll go with ottavino who has a slider or Zack Briton who throws a sinker.

I don't think there is any attribute in the game that makes a hitter better at hitting a certain type of pitch. You've got power, contact, durability, ect...but most of how good or bad a player is depends on the skill of the GAME PLAYER, not the baseball player in the game.

I do not believe that in MLB The Show that the players are predisposed to be able or not able to hit certain pitches. We have hot/cold zones but I think even those are BS.

So they would need to make some kind of code that's like: Judge can't hit offspeed or Stanton chases at high fastballs and find a way to align the CPU bullpen logic being able to match up the best pitches of the relievers with what the batters can and cannot hit....but then you're handicapping the game because what if I'M a good player, but now I'm going to be hamstrung by the weaknesses of the real life player...maybe I'm really good at timing curveballs and crush them, but Judge can't, so will I not be able to hit curveballs with Judge, but I will be able to hit them with LeMahieu?

I don't even know how the game would be able to do this. You'd have to re-write the whole game, and I don't see any major changes coming to the game until at least the 3rd year on PS5.

You are WAY overthinking it. The game doesn't have to do all that.

I'm pretty sure people in here would simply be happy if the AI:

- used all the relievers in its bullpen, instead of continually running the same guys out there (who aren't even the best relievers)

- actually used its better relievers in higher leverage situations and vice versa for lower leverage.

[JoseJoseph9119]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

.

I agree with the above post that you're overthinking, but all they would have to do to get that general effect is prioritize high (H/9)/velocity vs. high contact/vision and high (k/9)/break vs. high power/low discipline or something to that effect. What's most important, though, is to simply make sure everybody is actually used.

One issue that's not being considered is the CPU doesn't know how to properly utilize a team's roster in the first place. Only uses platoons in extreme scenarios, doesn't start superior bench players out of position, starts glove-first 4th OFs at DH while leaving an oaf in LF, etc. It will give bench guys playing time based on fatigue or other factors, but it doesn't trigger the same type of "Joe RP hasn't pitched in a couple days, let's have him work the 7th" prompts for the bullpen. It's putting in the best "backup" available since they all play the "same position", as opposed to seeing them as individuals with strengths and weaknesses beyond handedness.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I'm telling you guys, my solution (mostly) works. I don't use 30 team control or manage the CPU in any way.

See post #8 in this thread.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I'm telling you guys, my solution (mostly) works. I don't use 30 team control or manage the CPU in any way.

See post #8 in this thread.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

I find in my games, with the CPU hook that high, starters don't pitch deep into games. Rarely do they hit 90-100 pitches.

I have had starters pulled after 4 innings of 1 run ball....

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

That seems like a crazy amount of work and effort!

And even though I know that the system is flawed, part of the fun of the game for me is working against the CPU's own management. So if I mess with that, it all feels hollow.

It's not though. It takes about 30 seconds to arrange the opponents bullpen. Once it is set in the right order, it sticks, and they make pitching changes accordingly

[TheWarmWind]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I find in my games, with the CPU hook that high, starters don't pitch deep into games. Rarely do they hit 90-100 pitches.

I have had starters pulled after 4 innings of 1 run ball....

I've never seen a guy pulled that early in a one run game, but I have seen that the CPU is a little bit too sensitive about having a runner in scoring position past the 4th.

I'll admit I mostly defaulted to hook at 6 just because that's what worked the year that I discovered all this. The observation about caring about effective pitches still remains though. If the CPU bullpen doesn't have enough effective pitches, the CPU will start making efforts to protect those effective pitches, and will focus more on that then winning the game.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Unlucky 13]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

I've never seen a guy pulled that early in a one run game, but I have seen that the CPU is a little bit too sensitive about having a runner in scoring position past the 4th.

I'll admit I mostly defaulted to hook at 6 just because that's what worked the year that I discovered all this. The observation about caring about effective pitches still remains though. If the CPU bullpen doesn't have enough effective pitches, the CPU will start making efforts to protect those effective pitches, and will focus more on that then winning the game.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

It depends. This year's game is different than all of the ones before it, at least for me. I take walks at a dramatically higher rate than ever before now, which has the effect of not only putting men on base, but driving up the opposing pitcher's count, sometimes through the roof.

I had a game yesterday where the CPU starter walked seven or eight of my batters through four innings, but I hit into several double plays, and only had I think two hits through that same point, and was winning the game 2-1. But because I drove his count to over 90, he was exhausted, and when he walked a guy to start the 5th, the CPU manager took him out.

Its a bit of an extreme example, but its not out of line with what I see a couple times a week in my games now.

[ktd1976]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

It depends. This year's game is different than all of the ones before it, at least for me. I take walks at a dramatically higher rate than ever before now, which has the effect of not only putting men on base, but driving up the opposing pitcher's count, sometimes through the roof.

I had a game yesterday where the CPU starter walked seven or eight of my batters through four innings, but I hit into several double plays, and only had I think two hits through that same point, and was winning the game 2-1. But because I drove his count to over 90, he was exhausted, and when he walked a guy to start the 5th, the CPU manager took him out.

Its a bit of an extreme example, but its not out of line with what I see a couple times a week in my games now.

That is realistic though.

I have had instances where a starter got pulled in the 5th inning, with a pitch count between 60-80, and a runner on., in a 2-1 game.

With the CPU Hook slider at 2, The CPU is more inclined to let the pitcher try to pitch through thst.

[bravesfan1984]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

As much as I'd love to see the CPU bullpen improve, I'll just have to live with it I guess, I'm not willing to adjust sliders to get it to work because doing so will impact of parts of the gameplay.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: CPU Bullpen Management

As much as I'd love to see the CPU bullpen improve, I'll just have to live with it I guess, I'm not willing to adjust sliders to get it to work because doing so will impact of parts of the gameplay.

I would point out that the default setup is tuned for online play.

The devs encourage using sliders. Or at least Brian has in the past.