MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Age is just a number. Unfortunately, immaturity can last a lifetime.


On topic, one of the things I used to think I wanted for The Show was more attributes for players. Like in NBA 2k and Madden, the sheer amount of different attributes for players is mindblowingly staggering.

But then I start to wonder, is the gameplay in MLBTS so good because of the smaller amount of attributes for players. The fewer there are, the more meaningful and impact the game play better than NBA2k and Madden because their attribute impact is watered down. The more there are, maybe they start to cancel each other out. I dont know, but it has been on my mind lately. Having said that, I still cant help but wonder what the Show would play like, if vision and discipline was broken down into righty and lefty splits like contact and power is. Same for pitchers with H/9 HR/9 K/9 and BB/9. Woulf the game play be even moreamazing if they all had righty lefty splits. Or would it just be overkill.

I think having R/L splits for all attributes would be solid because it isn’t necessarily adding attributes, but rather making them more situational. The problem with 2k and madden having so many attributes is that both of those sports are more fluid than baseball, but it tries to box them into situations that might not always happen in a game of basketball or football.

Baseball being a purely situational sport means having those attributes split by situation would be a big help. Also the data is easily found to give those attributes.

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Age is just a number. Unfortunately, immaturity can last a lifetime.


On topic, one of the things I used to think I wanted for The Show was more attributes for players. Like in NBA 2k and Madden, the sheer amount of different attributes for players is mindblowingly staggering.

But then I start to wonder, is the gameplay in MLBTS so good because of the smaller amount of attributes for players. The fewer there are, the more meaningful and impact the game play better than NBA2k and Madden because their attribute impact is watered down. The more there are, maybe they start to cancel each other out. I dont know, but it has been on my mind lately. Having said that, I still cant help but wonder what the Show would play like, if vision and discipline was broken down into righty and lefty splits like contact and power is. Same for pitchers with H/9 HR/9 K/9 and BB/9. Woulf the game play be even moreamazing if they all had righty lefty splits. Or would it just be overkill.

I don't necessarily think it would be "overkill", but I don't know that it's necessary. I actually like the simplicity of MLBTS's ratings - especially since you can basically map each rating to one stat.

The split stats for pitchers is interesting, but I'd argue that it's not exactly a skill and more so a natural result of their arm motion/slot and repertoire. Guys that rely on Sliders/Sweepers are more prone to heavy traditional splits, where as guys that have good Changeups/Splitters have a better shot at having reverse splits. I think the game does kinda replicate that aspect fairly well - and there are definitely some pitching motions in the game that make for some uncomfortable at bats when a same sided hitter is up

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

I don't necessarily think it would be "overkill", but I don't know that it's necessary. I actually like the simplicity of MLBTS's ratings - especially since you can basically map each rating to one stat.

The split stats for pitchers is interesting, but I'd argue that it's not exactly a skill and more so a natural result of their arm motion/slot and repertoire. Guys that rely on Sliders/Sweepers are more prone to heavy traditional splits, where as guys that have good Changeups/Splitters have a better shot at having reverse splits. I think the game does kinda replicate that aspect fairly well - and there are definitely some pitching motions in the game that make for some uncomfortable at bats when a same sided hitter is up

Yeah, I'm pretty much on the side of the fence now that simpler is better. I used to think The Show needed to catch up to 2k and Madden in terms of how many attributes there should be. But I'm still curious how it would alter The Show's already excellent gameplay.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Yeah, I'm pretty much on the side of the fence now that simpler is better. I used to think The Show needed to catch up to 2k and Madden in terms of how many attributes there should be. But I'm still curious how it would alter The Show's already excellent gameplay.

I can't speak to 2k, but if we learned anything from Madden; less is more.

We still can't definitively say how Madden ratings correlate to teh sliders and tuning updates.. heck, many versions, penalty settings dramatically swing players interactions. Far too convoluted.

I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown on how defensive ratings are calculated. Based on that, I don't know what could be added or changed. And I would say pitches need two movement ratings (horizontal, vertical).. outside of that though I don't think SDS is missing anything.

Gameplay is hands down the strength of this franchise. Don't fix what isn't broken.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Yeah, I'm pretty much on the side of the fence now that simpler is better. I used to think The Show needed to catch up to 2k and Madden in terms of how many attributes there should be. But I'm still curious how it would alter The Show's already excellent gameplay.

I can't speak to 2k, but if we learned anything from Madden; less is more.

We still can't definitively say how Madden ratings correlate to teh sliders and tuning updates.. heck, many versions, penalty settings dramatically swing players interactions. Far too convoluted.

I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown on how defensive ratings are calculated. Based on that, I don't know what could be added or changed. And I would say pitches need two movement ratings (horizontal, vertical).. outside of that though I don't think SDS is missing anything.

Gameplay is hands down the strength of this franchise. Don't fix what isn't broken.

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

I can't speak to 2k, but if we learned anything from Madden; less is more.

We still can't definitively say how Madden ratings correlate to teh sliders and tuning updates.. heck, many versions, penalty settings dramatically swing players interactions. Far too convoluted.

I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown on how defensive ratings are calculated. Based on that, I don't know what could be added or changed. And I would say pitches need two movement ratings (horizontal, vertical).. outside of that though I don't think SDS is missing anything.

Gameplay is hands down the strength of this franchise. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Oooh pitch movement is one area I'd love for them to expand.

Defensive ratings are interesting - I think they base them off of the available advanced metrics, but I think they also try to use it to get OVR ratings to where they think they should be

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

I can't speak to 2k, but if we learned anything from Madden; less is more.

We still can't definitively say how Madden ratings correlate to teh sliders and tuning updates.. heck, many versions, penalty settings dramatically swing players interactions. Far too convoluted.

I've said before, I'd love to see a breakdown on how defensive ratings are calculated. Based on that, I don't know what could be added or changed. And I would say pitches need two movement ratings (horizontal, vertical).. outside of that though I don't think SDS is missing anything.

Gameplay is hands down the strength of this franchise. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Oooh pitch movement is one area I'd love for them to expand.

Defensive ratings are interesting - I think they base them off of the available advanced metrics, but I think they also try to use it to get OVR ratings to where they think they should be

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Defensive ratings are interesting - I think they base them off of the available advanced metrics, but I think they also try to use it to get OVR ratings to where they think they should be

(sorry, can't figure out why my quote button bugs out the way it does..)

I'd like to know if they're using advanced metrics like runs saved, or range factor. Attempts/assists and fielding% just seems too broad.

But I can't say I have serious complaints. For the most part, I've seen the Ozzie Smiths and Omar Visquels perform the way they should. A few versions it seems like there were too many errors, but not to the point where it ruined the game, and I believe serious progress has been made on this side of the ball, especially recent versions.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Defensive ratings are interesting - I think they base them off of the available advanced metrics, but I think they also try to use it to get OVR ratings to where they think they should be

(sorry, can't figure out why my quote button bugs out the way it does..)

I'd like to know if they're using advanced metrics like runs saved, or range factor. Attempts/assists and fielding% just seems too broad.

But I can't say I have serious complaints. For the most part, I've seen the Ozzie Smiths and Omar Visquels perform the way they should. A few versions it seems like there were too many errors, but not to the point where it ruined the game, and I believe serious progress has been made on this side of the ball, especially recent versions.

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

They did spend twelve months reworking the draft? Source?
Because it could have very well been one month. Or two months. As long as we're just throwing numbers out there.

That's all we got in franchise that year unless I missed something. I agree it could very well have been only 1 month with the rest of the year spent working on March to October.

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

So not 90 players. I said three players with 90+ potential and three players with 80+ potential.

You need a strategy to scout. Not just scouting everyone. You know where your picks are. Strategically scout around those picks and you will end up with a solid draft. Scouting is better because you don't have to sort through the mess of players who have been in the draft pool for years and are 24-25 years old. You could scout players who would be 19 year old second round picks in the old system just for them not to show up in the draft.

How is having that better?

How is having 25 year old draft picks better?


With the new system, I don't need to fully scout a player. Most start at 10 percent, with 3 quality scouts, you can get 45 percent a week. At 55 percent, you will have a good feel if you need to fully scout them or go to the next player. The scouting system now is about having a strategy. It is about knowing how the game generates prospects and what to look for. My week 1, I scout SP from east, central, and international. Week 2, I scout RP from those same regions. Then I start scouting around my picks.

Example. The Guardians held picks 28, 33, 65, and 98 as their first 4 picks. I am not going to scout the top 20 players because they will be most likely gone at 28. And if they are still there, they likely have something wrong with them. In this case above, I would scout select players starting at 28-33 for 2 weeks, then go to around 65 for 2 weeks, the around 98 for 2 weeks. Then each of my last picks for 1 week. At this point I am at 11 weeks. I would use the last 3 weeks to narrow down and fully scout my likely targets.

Also, knowing that injuries lower potential usually and usually draft positions is smart to know. But those injured players can be steals in rounds 3-4. I know that players that opt out of a medical exam is a risk/reward and can land you some of the best players in the draft. I know I can get good relief pitching in rounds 5 and 6 and one week of scouting a large amount of them is helpful. I after all, can scout my players fully before signing them.

Scouting requires more strategy than before. In my opinion is it better.

And draft prospect generation is undoubtedly better. No more 25 year olds in the draft. I have been vocal about my ups and downs with MLBTS the last few years, but SDS bettering their draft prospect generation is a massive W. To me, that and removing morale's impact on overall were the best 2 things this studio has done to the game. More so than y2y saves.

Scouting is fun. And being right on a prospect is rewarding. Being wrong on a prospect is fun as well. But not in a winning sort of way lol

Thank you for that excellent reply.

[

Spoiler

B]Spoiler alert - follow this and you won't be wrong on a prospect unless they changed in from 23.

First hire good scouts.

1. On the first Sunday scouting is available before you scout anybody save that franchise file and don't save over it until after the draft.

2. Add the unscouted low and high potential rating numbers. Call that the unscouted sum. Then divide by two. Let's call the sum the unscouted dividend.

3. After the player is 100% scouted add the low and high potential numbers. Call that the fully scouted sum. Note: You do NOT divide that number by 2.

4. Find the difference between unscouted sum and fully scouted sum. Then add or subtract that number from the unscouted dividend.

Example. Unscouted potential for a player is 60 - 90. 69 +90 = 150. 150/2 = 75.

Fully scouted potential for same player is 65 - 95. 65 + 95 = 160. 160 is 10 higher than 150. Add 10 to unscouted dividend. 75+ 10 = 85. His potential is 85. Now do that same thing for every attribute the player has in the present column and overall. Ignore completely the future numbers. For overall each attribute in the present column add and divide by 2 the unscouted low and high. Then add or subtract the the fully scouted sum you come up with, in this case +10.

If the same player's fully scouted potential dropped to 50 - 80 that would be - 20. Subtract 20 from 75 and he is 55 potential. His overall and unscouted dividend for each present attribute will drop by -20.

If you have any questions I'll be glad to help. It's not very complicated once you figure it out.

[/B]

For the record I'm basing my opinion on mlbts 23 since I didn't buy 24 and am only a couple weeks into my 25 franchise in which I don't sim. I've posted at length about issues with the current draft and player models. I have seen an improvement in legit starting pitchers. That's the only improvement I've seen. I also see similar dynamic with players with good attributes having poor potential and vice versa. Then there's the issue of progression/regression. I'm curious what the attributes were for your 90 potential prospects. I've seen high potential prospects not develop due to the age dice roll which IMO they need to get rid of or modify.

I value your opinion and would appreciate a reply what I did in 23 after watching several videos describing how to scout.
I had one scout devoted to discovery.
One scout assigned to scouting SP in each region.
One scout assigned to individual players who I thought I could get.

I decided assigning a scout to discovery was a waste of time and assigned that scout to individual players. IMO the developers need to change that dynamic. I can only discover one position in one region and I would get 1 or 2 players a week none of whom I wanted to fully scout because their range of attributes was too low. Has that changed in 25 or is discovery still a waste of time?

Scouting SP per region is a good way to get a lot of players scouted but that is pretty much the only thing that scout will be able to do because it takes a few weeks to fully scout an 18 year old in that dynamic. It does lock down the exact attributes for every starting pitcher. I have not done that for positions because there aren't enough scouts or enough time for that to be worthwhile.


They really need to bring back the previous board where you could sort by attribute and then scout individual players based upon that. Having to scroll though dozens of player cards to try to find prospects what fit my model isn't needed. Bring back the sortable board. It seems like they went in the direction of "fog" which for reasons I don't understand is what some in the community want. Too much fog already with the 7 draft picks per year we get.

[baconbits11]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

A roster vault would work just as well as y2y saves. Seems most want this just to transfer rosters to the new game.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

[Funkycorm]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

Thank you for that excellent reply.

[

Spoiler

B]Spoiler alert - follow this and you won't be wrong on a prospect unless they changed in from 23.

First hire good scouts.

1. On the first Sunday scouting is available before you scout anybody save that franchise file and don't save over it until after the draft.

2. Add the unscouted low and high potential rating numbers. Call that the unscouted sum. Then divide by two. Let's call the sum the unscouted dividend.

3. After the player is 100% scouted add the low and high potential numbers. Call that the fully scouted sum. Note: You do NOT divide that number by 2.

4. Find the difference between unscouted sum and fully scouted sum. Then add or subtract that number from the unscouted dividend.

Example. Unscouted potential for a player is 60 - 90. 69 +90 = 150. 150/2 = 75.

Fully scouted potential for same player is 65 - 95. 65 + 95 = 160. 160 is 10 higher than 150. Add 10 to unscouted dividend. 70+ 10 = 85. His potential is 85. Now do that same thing for every attribute the player has in the present column and overall. Ignore completely the future numbers. For overall each attribute in the present column add and divide by 2 the unscouted low and high. Then add or subtract the the fully scouted sum you come up with, in this case +10.

If the same player's fully scouted potential dropped to 50 - 80 that would be - 20. Subtract 20 from 75 and he is 55 potential. His overall and unscouted dividend for each present attribute will drop by -20.

If you have any questions I'll be glad to help. It's not very complicated once you figure it out.

[/B]

For the record I'm basing my opinion on mlbts 23 since I didn't buy 24 and am only a couple weeks into my 25 franchise in which I don't sim. I've posted at length about issues with the current draft and player models. I have seen an improvement in legit starting pitchers. That's the only improvement I've seen. I also see similar dynamic with players with good attributes having poor potential and vice versa. Then there's the issue of progression/regression. I'm curious what the attributes were for your 90 potential prospects. I've seen high potential prospects not develop due to the age dice roll which IMO they need to get rid of or modify.

I value your opinion and would appreciate a reply what I did in 23 after watching several videos describing how to scout.
I had one scout devoted to discovery.
One scout assigned to scouting SP in each region.
One scout assigned to individual players who I thought I could get.

I decided assigning a scout to discovery was a waste of time and assigned that scout to individual players. IMO the developers need to change that dynamic. I can only discover one position in one region and I would get 1 or 2 players a week none of whom I wanted to fully scout because their range of attributes was too low. Has that changed in 25 or is discovery still a waste of time?

Scouting SP per region is a good way to get a lot of players scouted but that is pretty much the only thing that scout will be able to do because it takes a few weeks to fully scout an 18 year old in that dynamic. It does lock down the exact attributes for every starting pitcher. I have not done that for positions because there aren't enough scouts or enough time for that to be worthwhile.


They really need to bring back the previous board where you could sort by attribute and then scout individual players based upon that. Having to scroll though dozens of player cards to try to find prospects what fit my model isn't needed. Bring back the sortable board. It seems like they went in the direction of "fog" which for reasons I don't understand is what some in the community want. Too much fog already with the 7 draft picks per year we get.

I think we will fundamentally disagree on the current scouting system and move forward.

A few things to respond to:

1. I never tried the numbers thing you are referring to. Seems interesting. I may find a few picks and do the math on it to see.

2. Discovery only discovers players outside of the top 200. There is a very small chance of finding a quality player. Don't use it.

3. I am in Spring year 8 of my sim so I don't have the players stats from their draft years. I only write down their potential and what year they were drafted. But I will say, it was two SP, a RP, and a SS, 3B, and LF and all 6 are on my MLB team and are all part of my core of players. My end plan is to sim out 20 years at least and have files saved for each year and replay a year to see if I do better than my sim. Likely 2036-2040 as my first drafted players are in their primes and I have to decide if the Guardians are going to spend money.

4. As far as what you did to scout, there are different philosophies and ways to do it. That is the nice thing. I only scout positions for 2 weeks total. I only scout players for 1 week until week 10-11. I spend those last few weeks scouting players who I want to target a second time.



Scouting is fun. I had my first 5 drafts be amazing then I missed on my first pick in the 6th draft draft but ended up with a great pick in the second round. In my 7th season draft I did last night, I had the 5th pick and got a decent player, an 83 potential SP, but missed out on a better pitcher after being unsure of which one to draft. I plan to get to my next draft by tomorrow and it will be very important as Cleveland is starting to come out of their rebuild and the players in this draft will likely need to be key pieces to maintain a successful future.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

I think we will fundamentally disagree on the current scouting system and move forward.

A few things to respond to:

1. I never tried the numbers thing you are referring to. Seems interesting. I may find a few picks and do the math on it to see.

2. Discovery only discovers players outside of the top 200. There is a very small chance of finding a quality player. Don't use it.

3. I am in Spring year 8 of my sim so I don't have the players stats from their draft years. I only write down their potential and what year they were drafted. But I will say, it was two SP, a RP, and a SS, 3B, and LF and all 6 are on my MLB team and are all part of my core of players. My end plan is to sim out 20 years at least and have files saved for each year and replay a year to see if I do better than my sim. Likely 2036-2040 as my first drafted players are in their primes and I have to decide if the Guardians are going to spend money.

4. As far as what you did to scout, there are different philosophies and ways to do it. That is the nice thing. I only scout positions for 2 weeks total. I only scout players for 1 week until week 10-11. I spend those last few weeks scouting players who I want to target a second time.



Scouting is fun. I had my first 5 drafts be amazing then I missed on my first pick in the 6th draft draft but ended up with a great pick in the second round. In my 7th season draft I did last night, I had the 5th pick and got a decent player, an 83 potential SP, but missed out on a better pitcher after being unsure of which one to draft. I plan to get to my next draft by tomorrow and it will be very important as Cleveland is starting to come out of their rebuild and the players in this draft will likely need to be key pieces to maintain a successful future.

The difference is he wants linear progression from drafting so it’s easier to figure out who the talented players are coming through your system while you (and myself as well) don’t want it to be linear so that there is a bit more of a surprise in terms of who pans out and who doesn’t, similar to real life baseball.

Both different ways to look at it and neither are a bad way to handle it, just different ways to make the draft mean different things.

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show Survey....Serious Things Being Discussed

The difference is he wants linear progression from drafting so it’s easier to figure out who the talented players are coming through your system while you (and myself as well) don’t want it to be linear so that there is a bit more of a surprise in terms of who pans out and who doesn’t, similar to real life baseball.

Both different ways to look at it and neither are a bad way to handle it, just different ways to make the draft mean different things.

Been down this road before. You want real life progression. 7 new players a year isn't real life. Real life in 60 new players a year. 20 in the draft and 40 more in international signings. Therefore until and unless they fix the number of new players per year it should be more linear in order to sustain the franchise. Same with the dice roll for player age progression curve.