2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Are you seriously telling me that Joey Votto and Troy Tulowitzki are at least equal? Or anything CLOSE to equal?

I don't have to overwhelm a team to get an overpaid, injury prone, usually above average shortstop.

Man, I'm not taking your 'input' on this any further.

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tell me how they are not of similar value.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tell me how they are not of similar value.

No, because you're not sucking me into another one of these. I'm done talking to you.

[37]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

THIS is why i love this thread

[TheNumber35]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tell me how in the world Joey Votto is worth 3 A's and Tulo isn't.

I was honestly trying to see your side and put aside my opinion in this until I read this. Joey Votto is a 29 year old MVP with (imo) the purest stroke in all of baseball. He also plays amazing defense and aside from last season, plays almost every single day

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I was honestly trying to see your side and put aside my opinion in this until I read this. Joey Votto is a 29 year old MVP with (imo) the purest stroke in all of baseball. He also plays amazing defense and aside from last season, plays almost every single day

Tulo (age 28) is the best defensive shortstop in the league. Shortstop is also arguably the most important position there is (defensively). To find the best fielding shortstop in the league and a cleanup hitter... who else can do that?

I compared them because they are similar age, both sat out a lot of the year due to injury, similar contract, and similar IMPORTANCE TO THEIR TEAM. Look at the whole picture unless you just want to go by game fairness and not real life fairness.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo (age 28) is the best defensive shortstop in the league

LET ME JUST STOP YOU RIGHT THERE... I know I said I wouldn't address this anymore, but when you go out and make these claims, I gotta step in.

Tulo has accumulated 10.7 dWAR since 2006, an average of 1.5 dWAR yearly.

Mike Aviles has accumulated 6.7 dWAR since 2008, good for an average of 1.133333etc yearly.

That's not even a full run of difference. Congrats, Troy Tulowitzki is roughly equal to Mike Aviles defensively. But, you know, "fan favorite," right?

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I don't think statistics show how many people he has kept off base because of his insanely strong arm which ultimately led to a lot of runs being kept off the scoreboard, especially because of their poor pitching staff and playing in coors field. If you haven't watched Tulo play, you don't know anything about the player he is.

I get slammed for comparing Tulo and Votto, I think you should get the same treatment for comparing Tulo with Mike Aviles haha. It's not all about statistics, and there were more points to that post than one sentence.

[TheNumber35]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo (age 28) is the best defensive shortstop in the league. Shortstop is also arguably the most important position there is (defensively). To find the best fielding shortstop in the league and a cleanup hitter... who else can do that?

I compared them because they are similar age, both sat out a lot of the year due to injury, similar contract, and similar IMPORTANCE TO THEIR TEAM. Look at the whole picture unless you just want to go by game fairness and not real life fairness.

I am looking at the whole picture...comparing Joey Votto to Tulo in any capacity other than their contracts is almost laughable.

One, Tulo isn't necessarily best defensive SS in the league. That would be Brendan Ryan. Any argument other than him is ignorant. Tulo is in that secondary tier with Hardy, Reyes, Andrus, and hell even Cabrera in Cleveland.

Yeah he's your cleanup hitter and mazel tov...but when your major league squad is not all that good and your minor league system is so bad that there's no chance you'll be competing any time soon, that doesn't mean much. Hell Cabrera hit cleanup for the Indians for awhile there, and Hardy is a middle of the order SS as well. Are those guys worth 3 A's to you? I doubt it. Just because Tulo has a large contract doesn't mean he's worth it. In fact, I promise you that Rockies management would redo their decision to sign him for that much money for that long if given the chance.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Are you seriously arguing that because he has a good arm he's a good fielder? Edwin Encarnacion has a ridiculous arm, but is he a good fielder? Well, yes, but at 3rd base? LOL no.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

One, Tulo isn't necessarily best defensive SS in the league. That would be Brendan Ryan. Any argument other than him is ignorant. Tulo is in that secondary tier with Hardy, Reyes, Andrus, and hell even Cabrera in Cleveland.

To put this in perspective, Mike Aviles and Yunel Escobar are both good comps to Tulowitzki defensively.

mazel tov

Wow, I don't hear other people say that often. Damn.

But all around, well thought out point.

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Are you seriously arguing that because he has a good arm he's a good fielder? Edwin Encarnacion has a ridiculous arm, but is he a good fielder? Well, yes, but at 3rd base? LOL no.

2x gold glove

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I get slammed for comparing Tulo and Votto, I think you should get the same treatment for comparing Tulo with Mike Aviles haha. It's not all about statistics, and there were more points to that post than one sentence.

No, no I shouldn't, because no matter how you look at it, Mike Aviles and Troy Tulowitzki are comparable defensively. Having a good arm =/= best shortstop in the league.

[TheNumber35]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

2x gold glove

Adam Jones just beat Mike Trout and Austin Jackson for a Gold Glove. Also, Brendan Ryan didn't win in the AL. Gold gloves are a horrible way to decide somebody's defensive prowess.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

But Adam Jones was better offensively, he should've won it- Oh wait.

Also, Adam Everett averaged 1.4181818181818181818etc dWAR throughout his career, nearly equal to Tulowitzki. Can we move from that hole "best defensive SS" thing now?