2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Adam Jones just beat Mike Trout and Austin Jackson for a Gold Glove. Also, Brendan Ryan didn't win in the AL. Gold gloves are a horrible way to decide somebody's defensive prowess.

I'm not saying that it's the only way to judge a fielder. No award can really determine anything... but it should mean something. The point of the Votto/Tulo comparison, was to say that they are comparable in the area of importance to their team.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo's so important to you guys because outside of him and CarGo, you guys really aren't that strong. Votto isn't as important to the Reds (evidenced by their ridiculous run without him) because they have a much better lineup and staff.

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo's so important to you guys because outside of him and CarGo, you guys really aren't that strong. Votto isn't as important to the Reds (evidenced by their ridiculous run without him) because they have a much better lineup and staff.

Therefore you would have to overpay the Rockies to give up one of their 2 good players.

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

LET ME JUST STOP YOU RIGHT THERE... I know I said I wouldn't address this anymore, but when you go out and make these claims, I gotta step in.

Tulo has accumulated 10.7 dWAR since 2006, an average of 1.5 dWAR yearly.

Mike Aviles has accumulated 6.7 dWAR since 2008, good for an average of 1.133333etc yearly.

That's not even a full run of difference. Congrats, Troy Tulowitzki is roughly equal to Mike Aviles defensively. But, you know, "fan favorite," right?

Ok now I know you're definitely high on something AC

Tulo is the best defensive SS in the NL, period. How about looking at the numbers on a per game basis? Tulo's 10.7 dWAR in 744 games equates to .01438 dWAR per game, Aviles' 3.2 dWAR in 475 games equates to .00674. Tulo accumulates twice the amount of dWAR per game than Aviles does, extrapolate that over a full season and Tulo is in the top 10 in all of baseball in dWAR.

Its not just the numbers though, anyone with two functioning eyes will tell you that Tulo is elite defensively, you making these statements makes me believe you have never seen Tulo play in person, he's a perennial MVP candidate when healthy.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo is the best defensive SS in the NL, period. How about looking at the numbers on a per game basis? Tulo's 10.7 dWAR in 744 games equates to .01438 dWAR per game, Aviles' 3.2 dWAR in 475 games equates to .00674. Tulo accumulates twice the amount of dWAR per game than Aviles does, extrapolate that over a full season and Tulo is in the top 10 in all of baseball in dWAR.

Its not just the numbers though, anyone with two functioning eyes will tell you that Tulo is elite defensively, you making these statements makes me believe you have never seen Tulo play in person...

I've seen him play in person, yes, and came away thinking "very good." And I was just trying to be as harsh as I could with the comps, because this guy is getting annoying, but please tell me you don't think he's the best in the league, for god sakes.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Therefore you would have to overpay the Rockies to give up one of their 2 good players.

Bro, I'm giving up a high A along with a high B and high C, how in the world is that not borderline overpaying?

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Tulo's 10.7 dWAR in 744 games equates to .01438 dWAR per game

Adam Everett's 15.7 dWAR in 880 games equates to .01772727272etc (is it possible to put bar notation into a post on OS?) dWAR per game.

[TheNumber35]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Therefore you would have to overpay the Rockies to give up one of their 2 good players.

Why would you waste the 100's of millions in CarGo and Tulo when the team isn't competing with them? Unless the Rockies are secretly the Yankees and have a giant fund they use to overpay with. The smart baseball decision there is to deal your asset while its still valuable...not wait around until it has no value. Sell high. If the Rockies aren't going to compete in the next 5 years, why keep around an SS who will probably be playing on crutches in 5 years given his injury history? Especially when you can get back high impact, blue chip prospects.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Seanjeezy, based on what I've provided, do you think a Travis d'Arnaud + high B + Moises Sierra package is fair value?

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I've seen him play in person, yes, and came away thinking "very good." And I was just trying to be as harsh as I could with the comps, because this guy is getting annoying, but please tell me you don't think he's the best in the league, for god sakes.

Well I obviously forgot about Simmons but he's definitely better than Crawford though.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Well I obviously forgot about Simmons but he's definitely better than Crawford though.

Brendan Ryan? i'm not sure of the statistics, but off the top of my head, Jose Reyes?

[G3no_11]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Bro, I'm giving up a high A along with a high B and high C, how in the world is that not borderline overpaying?

Anything I say doesn't make a difference to you. If anyone tries to make a point against you, you go off on them and pick out one or two sentences out of a paragraph to bash them on. You said yourself Tulo is equally if not more IMPORTANT than Votto, so I think he should be close to the same value as Votto. I know you would never give 3 A's but he is at least worth 2 A's.

It's not all about statistics, or their swing is pretty, anything like that. It is an important factor of what value the player is to that particular team and what it would take to get them to give him up. They signed him to 10 year contract because they want him to build their team around, not trade him away 2-3 years later for an A+B+C. That's not realistic at all.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Anything I say doesn't make a difference to you. If anyone tries to make a point against you, you go off on them and pick out one or two sentences out of a paragraph to bash them on. You said yourself Tulo is equally if not more IMPORTANT than Votto, so I think he should be close to the same value as Votto. I know you would never give 3 A's but he is at least worth 2 A's.

It's not all about statistics, or their swing is pretty, anything like that. It is an important factor of what value the player is to that particular team and what it would take to get them to give him up. They signed him to 10 year contract because they want him to build their team around, not trade him away 2-3 years later for an A+B+C. That's not realistic at all.

I'm only going off on you, because you don't understand the fact that I don't want to talk to you.

Importance =/= value. A manager can be very important to a team, but the most anyone's ever given up for a manager is Randy Winn.

Once again, importance =/= value. They signed him to a contract to build around him, started losing, looked to move him a couple years later. Alex Rios and Vernon Wells? Exact same thing.

[seanjeezy]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

Brendan Ryan? i'm not sure of the statistics, but off the top of my head, Jose Reyes?

I'm pretty sure I said NL, of course Brendan Ryan is the best SS in the MLB, what kind of Mariners fan would I be if I said otherwise

Tulo beats out Reyes based on the arm strength IMO

Seanjeezy, based on what I've provided, do you think a Travis d'Arnaud + high B + Moises Sierra package is fair value?

I don't see anything wrong with it, like I said I wasn't sure if you would want to take on that contract, but you don't seem to mind so yeah, seems fair to me especially since you are further down the road in your franchise anyway.

[AC]

Re: 2012 The Show Official Trade Discussion Thread

I'm pretty sure I said NL, of course Brendan Ryan is the best SS in the MLB, what kind of Mariners fan would I be if I said otherwise



I don't see anything wrong with it, like I said I wasn't sure if you would want to take on that contract, but you don't seem to mind so yeah, seems fair to me especially since you are further down the road in your franchise anyway.

You said NL? Whoops. I'll go check some stats.

I'd like to take on his contract, yep. You mind helping me pick a high B to give them?

Spoiler

Zack Cozart is my highest B, and would be a very nice replacement that could slide Story over *or* move to second himself.

Jose Dariel Abreu is a power hitting 1B. The Rockies had to play Brandon Moss at 1B, but he hit .250~ with 26~ homers, so I'd think they sorta like him.

Drew Hutchison is a mid-high B who's put up unbelievable numbers in AA and AAA for me.

Kyle Drabek is another extremely high B, and would help their pitching, but is losing prospect value.

Justin Nicolino is a Big 3 guy who's performed well in The Show at only 21. I'd like to keep him.

Roberto Osuna is an 18-year-old youngin who's performed exceptionally at AA and I'd rather keep.

Thoughts?