Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

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  • BatsareBugs
    LVP
    • Feb 2003
    • 12553

    #91
    Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

    Originally posted by snepp
    Yeah, don't bother pointing out factual evidence when you've got a perfectly good subjective and obviously unbiased eyewitness account that's guaranteed to be perfectly accurate.

    /sarcasm
    Are you trying to troll a negative response from me? If you are, it's not going to work buddy.

    Comment

    • dkgojackets
      Banned
      • Mar 2005
      • 13816

      #92
      Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

      Originally posted by snepp
      The tally isn't in runs, it's more of an arbitrary figure.



      I don't like to use Plus/Minus as a primary defensive metric, but it works well in support of others.
      That's right, I was thinking of something else.

      Comment

      • BatsareBugs
        LVP
        • Feb 2003
        • 12553

        #93
        Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

        Originally posted by dkgojackets
        That's right, I was thinking of something else.
        Honestly, just looking at that plus/minus thing confused the hell out of me. I never want to see that plus/minus stat again.

        Comment

        • rubisco43
          All Star
          • Feb 2003
          • 4372

          #94
          Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

          Maybe you guys should take that to PM, or challenge each other to a duel. Either way, quit bitching.
          http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

          Comment

          • snepp
            We'll waste him too.
            • Apr 2003
            • 10007

            #95
            Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

            Originally posted by dkgojackets
            That's right, I was thinking of something else.
            UZR?
            Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

            Comment

            • bjf1377
              Lurker
              • Jul 2002
              • 6620

              #96
              Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

              Originally posted by dkgojackets
              http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/vizquom01.php



              Tulowitzki had a FRAA of 30 last season. Vizquel's highest ever was 27. People need to stop looking just at errors and fielding percentage and realize how many balls TT plays out of the usual shortstop zone.
              So if anyone brings up any other fielding statistic, I'm gonna assume you have another random, recently created statistic to discount it with?

              Comment

              • dkgojackets
                Banned
                • Mar 2005
                • 13816

                #97
                Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                Originally posted by bjf1377
                So if anyone brings up any other fielding statistic, I'm gonna assume you have another random, recently created statistic to discount it with?
                What other fielding stats have people brought up?

                Again, using errors and fielding percentage is the same as saying that batting average is the best way to measure a hitter. It's just wrong.

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #98
                  Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                  Originally posted by dkgojackets
                  Again, using errors and fielding percentage is the same as saying that batting average is the best way to measure a hitter. It's just wrong.
                  Batting average and RBI, get it straight.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                  Comment

                  • bjf1377
                    Lurker
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 6620

                    #99
                    Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                    Originally posted by dkgojackets
                    What other fielding stats have people brought up?

                    Again, using errors and fielding percentage is the same as saying that batting average is the best way to measure a hitter. It's just wrong.
                    Well if you feel so confident in the FRAA, then explain to me why it's a better measure than a percentage of how many times a player correctly plays a ball hit to them? Cause when I look at the Baseball Prospectus site, FRAA is listed as a batting statistic (you were thinking of RAA2 I believe), and I have yet to find a decent explanation of how the hell its figured out
                    Last edited by bjf1377; 02-11-2008, 11:43 PM.

                    Comment

                    • TheMatrix31
                      RF
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 52920

                      #100
                      Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                      I'm not a fan of these random statistics....

                      That said, it's quite amazing to see just how much great SS talent we have in the league nowadays....

                      Comment

                      • BatsareBugs
                        LVP
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 12553

                        #101
                        Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                        Originally posted by bjf1377
                        Well if you feel so confident in the FRAA, then explain to me why it's a better measure than a percentage of how many times a player correctly plays a ball hit to them? Cause when I look at the Baseball Prospectus site, FRAA is listed as a batting statistic (you were thinking of RAA2 I believe), and I have yet to find a decent explanation of how the hell its figured out
                        That's what most of these stats are. I'd really like to know some of the defensive stats and how they're computed but they all refer to STATS INC.

                        Then again, that was two years ago so I don't know if they let that info out especially for RF or ZR... I can't remember which it was, or they've come out with more.

                        Comment

                        • dkgojackets
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 13816

                          #102
                          Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                          Originally posted by bjf1377
                          Well if you feel so confident in the FRAA, then explain to me why it's a better measure than a percentage of how many times a player correctly plays a ball hit to them?
                          Do I really have to, or is this just for posterity?

                          Comment

                          • bjf1377
                            Lurker
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 6620

                            #103
                            Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                            Originally posted by dkgojackets
                            Do I really have to, or is this just for posterity?
                            You kinda do cause a lot of us have not a damn clue what the hell it measures or how it measures it. I mean I know a lot of the batting and pitching measures, but I have never heard of RAA2. Consider this your chance to make me like Tulowitzki as much as you do

                            (If it makes you feel any better, I do feel that RBIs and batting average are stupid measures as well, but I honestly don't know how many different way's you can measure catching and throwing a ball)

                            Comment

                            • BatsareBugs
                              LVP
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 12553

                              #104
                              Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                              Originally posted by bjf1377
                              You kinda do cause a lot of us have not a damn clue what the hell it measures or how it measures it. I mean I know a lot of the batting and pitching measures, but I have never heard of RAA2. Consider this your chance to make me like Tulowitzki as much as you do

                              (If it makes you feel any better, I do feel that RBIs and batting average are stupid measures as well, but I honestly don't know how many different way's you can measure catching and throwing a ball)
                              Scout the person's glove work, his throwing accuracy, and throwing strength.

                              Comment

                              • dkgojackets
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 13816

                                #105
                                Re: Top 10 shortstops in MLB?

                                Originally posted by bjf1377
                                You kinda do cause a lot of us have not a damn clue what the hell it measures or how it measures it. I mean I know a lot of the batting and pitching measures, but I have never heard of RAA2. Consider this your chance to make me like Tulowitzki as much as you do

                                (If it makes you feel any better, I do feel that RBIs and batting average are stupid measures as well, but I honestly don't know how many different way's you can measure catching and throwing a ball)
                                To put it simply, errors/fielding percentage only take into account when the defender attempts to make a play on the ball. You can stand still at your position and let ground balls go by you, and they aren't errors because no attempt was made at a play. Players who make more plays tend to make more errors (or in the case of Tulowitzki and Greene, the same despite over a hundred more plays). RAA measures, in terms of runs saved, the value of a fielder based on percentage of plays he converts on balls hit into his zone (defined on BP) and how often he reaches balls outside of his zone and records outs or errors. For a detailed description on how its measured, you need to purchase some literature.

                                Comment

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