HoF ballot released...

[Stroehms]

Re: HoF ballot released...

What did he do that was so great? Yes he broke the record, but baseball hall is the hardest hall to get into. You need to do more than that!

lol. That's a quote that Whitey Herzog always says.

Obviously it's, as mentioned above, Pete Rose.

I'll take a wild stab and say that Ichiro is a HOF also.

[nyisles16]

Re: HoF ballot released...

lol. That's a quote that Whitey Herzog always says.

Obviously it's, as mentioned above, Pete Rose.

I'll take a wild stab and say that Ichiro is a HOF also.

I agree with that one. Considering all the seasons he's racked up 200+ hits, and has the record for number of hits in a season..

[ZM Punk]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Henderson, Blyleven, Raines, and Smith would be my picks.

[Misfit]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I think Henderson and Rice make it in. Blyleven didn't get near enough support last year to make it this year. I don't think Raines has a shot either and I'm curious to see how much of the vote he ends up getting. I don't think Smith, Dawson, or Morris will ever get enough support to get in.

[skitch]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Andre Dawson and Rickey Henderson are the shoe-ins, IMO. I think Mark McGwire should eventually be in the Hall, but it will more than likely take longer than expected when he retired. Some of the names on this list are downright laughable... Mo Vaughn? Jay Bell?

[Sandman42]

Re: HoF ballot released...

For those that don't think Tim Raines should make the HoF I urge you to read this.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/tim-raines-case-for-the-hall-of-fame/

[CMH]

Re: HoF ballot released...

For those that don't think Tim Raines should make the HoF I urge you to read this.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-hall-of-fame/

I'm all for backing Tim Raines but I can not support this article. The first paragraph alone screams biased journalism.

Very first sentence:

Last year, I started a website dedicated to the baseball idol of my youth, Tim Raines.

The guy is his idol. Why wouldn't he believe he was a Hall of Famer?

I invited several like-minded fans to contribute their thoughts and analysis to the site...

Oh, wow. Rather than trying to get the argument against and consider the possibility that he might not be a Hall of Famer, the writer invites other like-minded fans to support his claim.

I can win any argument if everything I wrote supported those same two themes.

[CMH]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Goodness, the more I just skim over this the more I can see FJM destroying this piece.

Tim Raines is regarded first and foremost as a leadoff hitter. But is being considered one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all-time enough to warrant being in the Hall of Fame?
In order to answer that question, we need to know what is a Hall of Fame leadoff hitter.

Wouldn't a Hall of Fame leadoff hitter be a player first and foremost regarded as a leadoff hitter and considered one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all-time? Or, are we just not sure what a leadoff hitter is either?

What if we grabbed all the Hall of Fame leadoff batters for the Retrosheet years? (I put in a minimum of 300 career plate appearances as the No. 1 hitter to exclude part-timers, pinch hitters, and pitchers.)

300 is the minimum to exclude part-timers, pinch hitters, and pitchers? 300 plate appearances wouldn't even qualify you for a batting title in a single season. We're supposed to be looking at potential Hall of Fame leadoff hitters, which means guys that were leadoff hitters throughout their careers, and within a quick sentence, that has been minimized to guys that batted half a season as a leadoff hitter in their 15 year careers.

Remember, we are only looking at performances while batting in the leadoff position.

Yes, we know. That's why you only included 300 plate appearances as a leadoff hitter. Did he think I might have thought a spot in the fourth hole might have snuck in there somewhere. Or maybe it did and by reminding me that he's only counting leadoff plate appearances, I'll take his word and ignore the possibility.

Some may not be happy with that kind of definition. Notably absent are Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, so I created a second group of Hall of Fame type players. The criteria was: (1) at least 2000 plate appearances in the leadoff slot, (2) in the Hall of Fame or likely to be in the Hall of Fame, (3) excluding shortstops and Richie Ashburn. I included this last requirement because shortstops are voted in large part for their fielding, and a large portion of Ashburn's career took place prior to the Retrosheet years.

Why even have the 300 plate appearances group if you're going to create a 2,000 plate appearance group? I don't even have to comment on the rest, it's borderline crazy.

Derek Jeter is Derek Jeter.

And?

As we've seen, Tim Raines compares favorably to Hall of Fame leadoff hitters. But, Raines also spent a substantial portion of his time as a No. 3 hitter. Surely, he can't hold his own with those hitters, right? Wrong.

And...I'm done.

The article started out about a guy being voted in because he was one of the greatest leadoff hitters and now he wants to compare him to other no. 3 hitters. What was the purpose of comparing him to leadoff hitters then? Perhaps, in the mean time, he should also compare Tim Raines to guys that batted ninth.

[snepp]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I'll give Tango a mulligan on this, everything else he does is ridiculously good.

[funky_chicken]

Re: HoF ballot released...

From the names on the list the ones I think should be in the hall are

Rickey Henderson
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy
Don Mattingly
Lee Smith

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Put in Rice dammit ... everyone else on that list has plenty of years of eligibility left.

[caseyd]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Not that I think he should be in, but you do realize that Roger was a two time MVP (1960/1961). In fact, I think he might be the only two time MVP not in the HOF.

Dale Murphy

[Tomahawk]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I know injuries hit him hard toward the latter part of his career, I will never understand how Don is not in. He had 222 HR's, 1100 rbi's, lifetime fld % of .993. He won 9 gold gloves, 3 Silver slugger awards and the MVP in 85( his best year in the Majors). Maybe I just think too much of "Donnie Baseball", but in my mind this guy is a hall of famer.

Mattingly had four excellent season, but due to injuries the rest of his career he was no better than Mark Grace. Mattingly is not a HOF'er.

[Tomahawk]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Btw, left off of this list of players up for election is the 2nd all-time saves leader, Lee Smith.

A definite Hall of Famer in my book.

Lee Smith being 2nd of the saves list is a little misleading. I have no problem with guys like Gossage, Sutter, and Fingers being in the HOF because they pitched multiple innings to get saves while Lee Smith was a one inning saver. You can't compare Smith's saves totals to those guys because of the difference in the way they were used.

Wait and see where Smith ranks on the list of saves when some of the current relievers retire like Hoffman, Rivera, Wagner, Nathan, etc. before judging Smith as Hall worthy.

[MassNole]

Re: HoF ballot released...

• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker
• Dan Plesac
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice (final year of eligibility)
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams


Not an appeasing bunch by any means.. Henderson gets in, and maybe Blyleven.. (outside shot maybe of Rice), but I don't see anyone getting the votes needed to get in.

Ricky Henderson should be in without any question. No one will ever touch his stolen bases record, that is enough for me, not to mention the other facets of his game.

As for the others, well it's the same played out arguments for guys like Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Jack Morris, and Bert Blyleven. Yes they were all very good players, but when you think of the greats of the game, none of them really come to mind unless you were a fan of their teams. Mark McGwire though is being screwed over by the voters. Yes he used PEDs but they weren't against the rules of MLB at the time, so he really wasn't doing anything wrong by the rules of the game.