HoF ballot released...

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Uh, Babe Ruth hit .393 one year and had a career average of .342

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=ruthba01

McGwire didn't have those numbers but he was part of baseball's resurrection.

I understand that, and guys were also not throwing 95+ MPH back then, or had the range of most players do now.

Not to mention the juiced ball was part of the resurrection as well.

*runs and hides*

[Stroehms]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I understand that, and guys were also not throwing 95+ MPH back then, or had the range of most players do now.

Not to mention the juiced ball was part of the resurrection as well.

*runs and hides*

What? I find that highly doubtful.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

What? I find that highly doubtful.

When you hear old timers talk about pitchers of today, they say they are lucky they never seen heat that "common" in the league. (they could also just be talking very modest)

And just look at their windups ... most of the funky windups could not incorporate that much velocity just for pure mechanics reasoning ... but it was more for deception of the release points.

But we will never know without a gun... all I know is the old videos I watched, the ball never popped like it does now. Or those small gloves they had, there would be many broken hands on the catchers.

[Stroehms]

Re: HoF ballot released...

When you hear old timers talk about pitchers of today, they say they are lucky they never seen heat that "common" in the league. (they could also just be talking very modest)

And just look at their windups ... most of the funky windups could not incorporate that much velocity just for pure mechanics reasoning ... but it was more for deception of the release points.

But we will never know without a gun... all I know is the old videos I watched, the ball never popped like it does now. Or those small gloves they had, there would be many broken hands on the catchers.

Ok I gotcha.

My dad collects old-school gloves and has a couple of catchers mitts. The things are huge, idk how they caught with them. Maybe 2 hands? Idk, lol.

Ex:

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

ROFL I know what you mean ... I actually wore one when I was doing a piece for old school baseball gear ... and let me tell you ... the padding around the rim was great, though hard to catch if you were not dead on ... but if you caught with it dead center ... OUCH! The center had no room for error.

I am sure it was a art where they would squeeze the ball just as it hit to absorb the impact.

Then again, you look at the Marines in WWII ... and how rugged us men were 80 years ago ... they sure dont make them like they used to.

So I dunno how those guys could have sustained constant 90+ MPH pitches back then.

[Stroehms]

Re: HoF ballot released...

ROFL I know what you mean ... I actually wore one when I was doing a piece for old school baseball gear ... and let me tell you ... the padding around the rim was great, though hard to catch if you were not dead on ... but if you caught with it dead center ... OUCH!

So I dunno how those guys could have sustained constant 90+ MPH pitches back then.

And I bet they thought that the baseball technology back then was outstanding. lol.

Btw, I bet Babe Ruth hit a homerun off of a spit-baller

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

And I bet they thought that the baseball technology back then was outstanding. lol.

Btw, I bet Babe Ruth hit a homerun off of a spit-baller

Well considering he was drunk most of the time like ones would say, that was impressive enough within itself to hit one.

Guy pops 60 HRs with a handicap ... and our guys pop over 60 on the juice with a few occasional meatballs.

[rsox]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Interestingly Mark McGwire is the only player to ever lead the majors in Home Runs in one season without leading a league.

[Stroehms]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Well considering he was drunk most of the time like ones would say, that was impressive enough within itself to hit one.

Guy pops 60 HRs with a handicap ... and our guys pop over 60 on the juice with a few occasional meatballs.

Lol. Agreed.

"Did we just become bestfriends?"

[SportsTop]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I guess for me, I never cared much about the steroids/enhancements/whatever for McGwire because I don't consider him a Hall of Famer.

I don't see anything that great about his career with the exception of hitting close to 600 homeruns.

Maybe if he had other great talents, but he didn't. If your one talent is hitting homeruns and you couldn't even get to the 600+ mark, then were you really that great to begin with? I can't say so.

You just described Reggie Jackson to a "T".

In fact, looking at their numbers they may as well be the same player.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: HoF ballot released...

You just described Reggie Jackson to a "T".

In fact, looking at their numbers they may as well be the same player.

*steps away from thread ... slowly*

[Tomahawk]

Re: HoF ballot released...

You just described Reggie Jackson to a "T".

In fact, looking at their numbers they may as well be the same player.

Or Harmon Killibrew or Willie McCovey.

[CMH]

Re: HoF ballot released...

Yep. Killebrew was basically a homerun hitter. Reggie Jackson at least was an extra-base hits hitter along with the homeruns. McCovey the same.

If they retired today, I would feel the same way. The only reason why anyone would defend them today is because of era.

So, if era means a lot to you then you can consider that. But, it always comes down to the era.

Looking at the names, I won't lie that it would be hard for me to say, "No, way, they aren't Hall of Famers." But, I stand by my point and I won't let what's been put hard into my head affect my thinking.

If those names were eligible today, I wouldn't vote for them.

edit: Obviously, I'm ignoring fielding in this decision. I didn't see them field and I can't trust any fielding stat so I don't know how I could really determine that. If memory serves me right, McCovey was considered a very good fielder or at least above average. I guess that's to his benefit and I would have to consider that. Since he was also a better hitter than Jackson, Killebrew, and McGwire, I would probably only let him in as I consider him the greater of the four named.

[CMH]

Re: HoF ballot released...

I haven't mentioned this so I'll do that now.

I am basing my thoughts on the crudeness of the Hall of Fame today. I am actually not a supporter of the hardcore Hall of Greatest ever mantra. To me, the Hall of Fame is reserved for the more famous players. Hence, the word fame and not great.

If the Hall of Fame were actually recognized as such then Mark McGwire would get my vote. Considering that the committee likes to be stuck up about election, I'm going to be just as stuck up (with panties tied into a bunch) about who I think should be in there.

If you were only a homerun hitter and your stats were a result of your one talent then I'm not seeing how you were a great player. It would be like electing a guy just because he had a .600 OBP every year of his career despite being a poor hitter, fielder, or anything else you can think of in your head.

[Tomahawk]

Re: HoF ballot released...

YankeePride,

By your reasoning a guy with exceptional power like McGwire, Killibrew, and Jackson are not worthy of the Hall because you stated, "if you were only a homerun hitter and your stats were a result of your one talent then I'm not seeing how you were a great player".

Should someone like Willie Wilson be in the Hall of Fame? Very good hitter with a .285 batting average, but didn't walk much. Exceptional speed with over 650 stolen bases and almost 150 career triples. Good hitter with great speed so his stats were the results of more than one talent.

Or Jose Canseco? Not too many guys have hit over 450 homers with 200 steals not to mention a career batting average higher than McGwire, Killebrew, and Jackson and only 4 points behind McCovey.

Or Tim Raines? Career .294 hitter with over 800 steals and over 700 extra base hits?

Are they Hall of Fame worthy or does someone only have a chance if they hit for average and power?

Going to back to Jackson, Killibrew, and McCovey. All three of them are in the Top 50 in RBI's for their careers. The purpose of the game is to score and drive in runs. If you make the Top 50 All-Time driving in runs shouldn't you be in the Hall of Fame no matter if you drove those runs in with homers or doubles?

Not trying to start a fight here....just curious to hear your opinion.