ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

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  • bkrich83
    Has Been
    • Jul 2002
    • 71582

    #76
    Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

    So you think Mantle was faster, because he looked faster on film. That pretty much proves my point on what you know. As far as todays players being overrated and not as good as the players in the past, I don't see it. The pitching is definitely watered down due to expansion. But todays baseball players are much better athletes. They are stronger, faster and better conditioned.

    As far as AROD just being considered a good player for his time. We'll see. If he continues to produce like he has, he's gonna put up numbers that will put him up there with the all time greats. Not to mention that his combination of offensive skills and defensive capablity totally revolutionized the SS position. AROD may just be the best athlete to play the position. He could steal 40 bases a year if he needed to.

    So comparing him with Mantle maybe premature, like I said. But we don't know the end result, he's off to a good start.

    If your just gonna reply with more of your homer comments save your breath.
    Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

    Comment

    • bkrich83
      Has Been
      • Jul 2002
      • 71582

      #77
      Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

      So you think Mantle was faster, because he looked faster on film. That pretty much proves my point on what you know. As far as todays players being overrated and not as good as the players in the past, I don't see it. The pitching is definitely watered down due to expansion. But todays baseball players are much better athletes. They are stronger, faster and better conditioned.

      As far as AROD just being considered a good player for his time. We'll see. If he continues to produce like he has, he's gonna put up numbers that will put him up there with the all time greats. Not to mention that his combination of offensive skills and defensive capablity totally revolutionized the SS position. AROD may just be the best athlete to play the position. He could steal 40 bases a year if he needed to.

      So comparing him with Mantle maybe premature, like I said. But we don't know the end result, he's off to a good start.

      If your just gonna reply with more of your homer comments save your breath.
      Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

      Comment

      • paulywerner
        Rookie
        • Feb 2003
        • 147

        #78
        Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

        I never got to see Mantle play in person, so yes, I have to watch old films of him playing. But my point is, if you are compare players of today, to players of the past, there is more to it then numbers. and your point is right about players being better conditioned, and in some cases stronger, but that goes back to my point about technology. They have the equipment for this today, and the drugs. But if you look at guys like Mays, Williams, and Mantle, they were just as strong, if not stronger than most of the players today. Also, take guys from the old negro leagues, ex: Josh Gibson, and Robinson..... They had talents that will probrably never be seen again. there will be another A-Rod, there will be another Soriano. Why, because they are trained to do the things they are doing at younger ages. Baseball used to be station to station, meaning 1B had to have certain attributes. Lefty, Power, no speed was fine, 2B/SS quick hands, good contact hitter, speed was necessary... Then guys like Joe Morgan, not Soriano, and guys like Ernie Banks, not A-Rod, revolutionized their positions with their power, and athletic abilities. once again, ill suggest looking outside the numbers when trying to discuss comparisons. it only makes you look like you think one demensionable when making them.

        Comment

        • paulywerner
          Rookie
          • Feb 2003
          • 147

          #79
          Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

          I never got to see Mantle play in person, so yes, I have to watch old films of him playing. But my point is, if you are compare players of today, to players of the past, there is more to it then numbers. and your point is right about players being better conditioned, and in some cases stronger, but that goes back to my point about technology. They have the equipment for this today, and the drugs. But if you look at guys like Mays, Williams, and Mantle, they were just as strong, if not stronger than most of the players today. Also, take guys from the old negro leagues, ex: Josh Gibson, and Robinson..... They had talents that will probrably never be seen again. there will be another A-Rod, there will be another Soriano. Why, because they are trained to do the things they are doing at younger ages. Baseball used to be station to station, meaning 1B had to have certain attributes. Lefty, Power, no speed was fine, 2B/SS quick hands, good contact hitter, speed was necessary... Then guys like Joe Morgan, not Soriano, and guys like Ernie Banks, not A-Rod, revolutionized their positions with their power, and athletic abilities. once again, ill suggest looking outside the numbers when trying to discuss comparisons. it only makes you look like you think one demensionable when making them.

          Comment

          • thecomic
            MVP
            • Apr 2003
            • 911

            #80
            Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

            Let me just say one thing, "5 MVP'S- 5!!! and the writers hate him."

            Comment

            • thecomic
              MVP
              • Apr 2003
              • 911

              #81
              Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

              Let me just say one thing, "5 MVP'S- 5!!! and the writers hate him."

              Comment

              • paulywerner
                Rookie
                • Feb 2003
                • 147

                #82
                Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                Let me just say one thing, "5 MVP'S- 5!!! and the writers hate him."

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                I take it you're meaning Bonds, right?.... well if MVP's mean so much, isn't it funny Ruth never got a single one, and gehrig only had one, willie mays only had one... i think MVP's only have to do with the deminished talent in baseball today

                Also, some notables.... Pete Rose..alltime leader in hits... MVP's=1
                Hank Aaron... alltime leader in homeruns, MVP's=1

                Comment

                • paulywerner
                  Rookie
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 147

                  #83
                  Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  Let me just say one thing, "5 MVP'S- 5!!! and the writers hate him."

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  I take it you're meaning Bonds, right?.... well if MVP's mean so much, isn't it funny Ruth never got a single one, and gehrig only had one, willie mays only had one... i think MVP's only have to do with the deminished talent in baseball today

                  Also, some notables.... Pete Rose..alltime leader in hits... MVP's=1
                  Hank Aaron... alltime leader in homeruns, MVP's=1

                  Comment

                  • bkrich83
                    Has Been
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 71582

                    #84
                    Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                    How can you say Ernie Banks revolutionized the position? The success of AROD was so tremendous, that it has practically made the all glove no hit shortstop extinct. I Am not looking at the numbers. Arod is like I said probably the finest athlete to play the position.

                    I have never bought in to the old players were better than they new. There's no way you can say that either if you never actually saw them play.

                    Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                    Comment

                    • bkrich83
                      Has Been
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 71582

                      #85
                      Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                      How can you say Ernie Banks revolutionized the position? The success of AROD was so tremendous, that it has practically made the all glove no hit shortstop extinct. I Am not looking at the numbers. Arod is like I said probably the finest athlete to play the position.

                      I have never bought in to the old players were better than they new. There's no way you can say that either if you never actually saw them play.

                      Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                      Comment

                      • nyyanksfan20
                        MVP
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 1650

                        #86
                        Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                        what do you call a "complete player" im looking at speed,defense,hitting for avg,hitting for power is there anything else after that.
                        Going by that I would have to go with
                        A-Rod
                        Vlad
                        Sori
                        Yankees
                        Cowboys
                        Knicks
                        Rangers

                        Comment

                        • nyyanksfan20
                          MVP
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 1650

                          #87
                          Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                          what do you call a "complete player" im looking at speed,defense,hitting for avg,hitting for power is there anything else after that.
                          Going by that I would have to go with
                          A-Rod
                          Vlad
                          Sori
                          Yankees
                          Cowboys
                          Knicks
                          Rangers

                          Comment

                          • paulywerner
                            Rookie
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 147

                            #88
                            Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            How can you say Ernie Banks revolutionized the position? The success of AROD was so tremendous, that it has practically made the all glove no shortstop extinct. I Am not looking at the numbers. Arod is like I said probably the finest athlete to play the position.

                            I have never bought in to the old players were better than they new. There's no way you can say that either if you never actually saw them play.



                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                            well, i saw someof the older guys at the end of their careers, but for the most part, reading books, watching old films, and learning from people older than me, what the game was like before i came along. It's things like these that give you the ability to make your decisions on comparing also, and if you were never high on older ballplayers, thats one thing, then you can't say anything about A-Rod being better, and Banks was everything A-Rod is now... great player on a bad team, lots of power, one of the best defensive SS's in the game at his time. In which way are they not alike?

                            Also, i look at a complete player with those attributes, but i also look at hustle, knowledge(when not to force a throw on defense, or when to pull a pitch, or go the other way with a pitch.... EX: Jeter is very good at both of these things, but his lack of power really hurts his chances of being a complete player), and lastly, his ability to impact a llineup... EX: Jim Edmonds... do you pitch to him, or take your chances on Pujols...lol... they way you play, can affect the way your opponents pitch to you. if they are scared to pitch to you, can you take advantage of it?... you may think this has to do with hitting for avg, and power, etc... but hitting is lot more than making contact or hitting a home run... any player in the league can make contact, but its the frequency, and the ability to work the count in your favor as much as possible

                            Comment

                            • paulywerner
                              Rookie
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 147

                              #89
                              Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              How can you say Ernie Banks revolutionized the position? The success of AROD was so tremendous, that it has practically made the all glove no shortstop extinct. I Am not looking at the numbers. Arod is like I said probably the finest athlete to play the position.

                              I have never bought in to the old players were better than they new. There's no way you can say that either if you never actually saw them play.



                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              well, i saw someof the older guys at the end of their careers, but for the most part, reading books, watching old films, and learning from people older than me, what the game was like before i came along. It's things like these that give you the ability to make your decisions on comparing also, and if you were never high on older ballplayers, thats one thing, then you can't say anything about A-Rod being better, and Banks was everything A-Rod is now... great player on a bad team, lots of power, one of the best defensive SS's in the game at his time. In which way are they not alike?

                              Also, i look at a complete player with those attributes, but i also look at hustle, knowledge(when not to force a throw on defense, or when to pull a pitch, or go the other way with a pitch.... EX: Jeter is very good at both of these things, but his lack of power really hurts his chances of being a complete player), and lastly, his ability to impact a llineup... EX: Jim Edmonds... do you pitch to him, or take your chances on Pujols...lol... they way you play, can affect the way your opponents pitch to you. if they are scared to pitch to you, can you take advantage of it?... you may think this has to do with hitting for avg, and power, etc... but hitting is lot more than making contact or hitting a home run... any player in the league can make contact, but its the frequency, and the ability to work the count in your favor as much as possible

                              Comment

                              • bkrich83
                                Has Been
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 71582

                                #90
                                Re: ALFONSO SORIANO: Is He The Most Complete Player in MLB?

                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                In which way are they not alike?


                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                                They are not alike in the fact that AROD helped change the way the position was thought of. Like I said since Arod hit the scene, the all glove no hit SS of the past , are all but extinct.

                                Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                                Comment

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