Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

More voting reform.

BBWA can't be taken seriously. They are a disgrace.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I am very happy for The Crime Dog. He deserves it big time.

How Schilling, Mattingly and Murphy are not in is mind numbing.

Don’t get me started on Bonds and Clemens. Absolutely HOF’s in my book.

The gate keeping is out of control.


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[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I'm curious who people think are doing the gatekeeping here. Schilling, Bonds, and Clemens all got a far higher percentage of the vote among the general BBWAA vote than they did with the Veterans Committee. Here are the committee members:

Players:

Greg Maddux
Chipper Jones
Jack Morris
Ryne Sandberg
Alan Trammell
Frank Thomas
Lee Smith

Execs:

Arte Moreno (Angels owner)
Dave St. Peter (Twins CEO)
Kenny Williams (White Sox GM)
Kim Ng (Marlins GM)
Theo Epstein (former Cubs/Red Sox GM)
Paul Beeston (former Phillies/Blue Jays GM)

Other:

Steve Hirdt (VP of Elias Sports Bureau)
Susan Slusser (Giants beat writer)
LaVelle Neal (Twins beat writer)

[CBoller1331]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah I dont have a super strong opinion either way on Bonds and Clemens. I lean towards keeping them out, but there almost definitely "cheaters" in the hall already. I am perfectly fine if their peers vote them in on the Veterans committee, but their first go round wasn't all that encouraging.

There is obviously a whole lot of ridiculousness that comes with the BBWA voting system, but their collective opinion doesnt seem to be that far off from the veterans committee on those guys

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[Amoo316]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I was originally against them getting in, but we already know there are some guys from that era that have gotten in that most likely were users as well. Heck look at what McGriff did in TB after he left ATL and had a resurgence.

At the end of the day the baseball HOF is supposed to be a museum of baseball history. You can't properly tell the story about baseball history when one of the most sacred records in the entire game is currently held by somebody not in the Hallf of Fame.

[Caulfield]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah I dont have a super strong opinion either way on Bonds and Clemens. I lean towards keeping them out, but there almost definitely "cheaters" in the hall already. I am perfectly fine if their peers vote them in on the Veterans committee, but their first go round wasn't all that encouraging.

There is obviously a whole lot of ridiculousness that comes with the BBWA voting system, but their collective opinion doesnt seem to be that far off from the veterans committee on those guys

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afaic any HoF ''gate keeper'' lost their reason (i.e. keeping out players for moral issues, whether it be players like Rose and Shoeless Joe or Clemens and Bonds) lost their reason to exist the minute Ty Cobb entered Cooperstown [/TwoCentRant]

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

afaic any HoF ''gate keeper'' lost their reason (i.e. keeping out players for moral issues, whether it be players like Rose and Shoeless Joe or Clemens and Bonds) lost their reason to exist the minute Ty Cobb entered Cooperstown [/TwoCentRant]

You know the Ty Cobb myth has been dispelled, right?

https://www.mlb.com/news/ty-cobb-history-built-on-inaccuracies-c178601094

[Caulfield]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

You know the Ty Cobb myth has been dispelled, right?

https://www.mlb.com/news/ty-cobb-his...ies-c178601094

I wasn't even referring to the myths, just the other things that are known to have happened

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

At the end of the day the baseball HOF is supposed to be a museum of baseball history. You can't properly tell the story about baseball history when one of the most sacred records in the entire game is currently held by somebody not in the Hallf of Fame.

The story is being told, though. The BBHOF & Museum in Cooperstown has a lot of displays/memorabilia from those not enshrined. When I was there (albeit this was 2008, so things may have changed since then), I saw displays touting the accomplishments of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe, you name it. What those guys don't have are plaques (the Plaque Gallery itself is a very cool but relatively small part of the Hall).

Now if people think those players and others deserve a plaque and a ceremony in the summer, I won't argue. But it's incorrect to say that the Hall of Fame is ignoring them or removing them from baseball history.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

There is obviously a whole lot of ridiculousness that comes with the BBWA voting system, but their collective opinion doesnt seem to be that far off from the veterans committee on those guys

From everything I've heard and read over the last few years, the BBWAA (particularly the younger, more numbers-oriented ones) are far more receptive to Bonds/Clemens, etc. than ex-players.

[lowpaiddonkey10]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I am very happy for The Crime Dog. He deserves it big time.

How Schilling, Mattingly and Murphy are not in is mind numbing.

Don’t get me started on Bonds and Clemens. Absolutely HOF’s in my book.

The gate keeping is out of control.


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Mattingly's back injury cause his career to fall short. Not enough great years.

[Caulfield]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Mattingly's back injury cause his career to fall short. Not enough great years.

I still blame Steinbrenner more than the bad back.
if Mattingly had the benefit of Torre, or heck even Costanza, Donnie Baseball would be Donnie Cooperstown lol

[Majingir]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Scott Rolen elected to the HOF.

I wouldn't consider him a HOF player.

I imagine he goes in with the Cards given he won a WS with them, although he spent more time with the Phillies/was drafted by them/won the rookie of the year with them.

[IndianSummer]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

There are several players in my opinion that should have been voted in that wasn’t. I’m not sure how much faith I have in the election committee when they don’t vote in someone like Billy Wagner. They also should have voted in Todd Helton…….I guess the fact he played in Colorado is hurting him.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

There are several players in my opinion that should have been voted in that wasn’t. I’m not sure how much faith I have in the election committee when they don’t vote in someone like Billy Wagner. They also should have voted in Todd Helton…….I guess the fact he played in Colorado is hurting him.

They'll both get in soon enough. Helton was at 72% he'll likely get in next year. Wagner will be in a couple years too. Believe he was at 68%.

I want Andruw Jones in too. But I'm not sure he'll get in. Maybe in the last few years he'll sneak in I feel like.

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