Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • zello144
    MVP
    • Jul 2013
    • 2183

    #2191
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    Originally posted by Speedy
    This was interesting.

    Part of me is surprised he didn't win his collusion case, it was clear he could easily be an 1.000 OPS player.

    Part of me knows no team wanted to deal with him and whatever he did to a clubhouse (allegedly).

    There's stories even about his stint as Marlins hitting coach that claims he was terrible and aloof.
    Nats could have used him in 2008. He would have definitely been an upgrade over Elijah Dukes who had even more issues than Barry Bonds. New Ballpark and signing Barry Bonds would have put a bunch of butts in the seats. He could have been DHing for a couple bad AL teams. But then again 762 is a good number
    Last edited by zello144; 02-08-2022, 12:07 AM.

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    • jasontoddwhitt
      MVP
      • May 2003
      • 8095

      #2192
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      I'm sure it irks him to no end that he ended up 65 hits shy of 3,000...and was still very capable of playing 1 or 2 more seasons to get over 3,000.

      I used to be in that category of "steroid users should be banned from the hall". Then I matured.
      Time Warp Baseball (OOTP 25)

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      • zello144
        MVP
        • Jul 2013
        • 2183

        #2193
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        Still impressive how he was able to play at 43 PEDs or not. I think he could have kept going til like 2010 or 2011.

        25 years in the majors

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        • baconbits11
          MVP
          • Oct 2014
          • 2617

          #2194
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          Anyone who used PEDs.....No! Glad they all have been kept out.

          Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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          • CBoller1331
            It Appears I Blue Myself
            • Dec 2013
            • 3082

            #2195
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            Originally posted by baconbits11
            Anyone who used PEDs.....No! Glad they all have been kept out.

            Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
            Spoiler alert....they probably haven't all been kept out
            Chicago Cubs
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            • Caulfield
              Hall Of Fame
              • Apr 2011
              • 10986

              #2196
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Originally posted by CBoller1331
              Spoiler alert....they probably haven't all been kept out
              yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at any HoF who might admit to using peds
              (even if it was just to rehabilitate an injury rather than enhance their performance for other reasons)
              admit to using peds, who played ball since the 1990's.
              after the twist America's dad Bill Cosby life took the last decade, if Jeter or Ripken or Thome were the ones who came out and said they had a moment of weakness, I'm so jaded at this point I wouldn't be surprised at all. just using those players as an example. right now I don't have any reason to think they used
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              • baconbits11
                MVP
                • Oct 2014
                • 2617

                #2197
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Originally posted by CBoller1331
                Spoiler alert....they probably haven't all been kept out
                Hmmm who might you be referring to?

                Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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                • CBoller1331
                  It Appears I Blue Myself
                  • Dec 2013
                  • 3082

                  #2198
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by baconbits11
                  Hmmm who might you be referring to?

                  Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
                  Honestly no one in particular. There are a number of guys who have been elected who have had some form of PED rumors cloud their case a bit (Bagwell, Piazza and Ortiz come to mind).

                  That certainly doesn't mean all of those rumors are true or that they each are equally credible, but the punishment for alleged PED-users has certainly not been applied equally. How does Sammy Sosa drop off the ballot while David Ortiz gets in on the first-ballot? They each have approximately the same-level of speculation clouding their case from the supposedly confidential 2003 testing survey.

                  We are never going to know exactly who was using and who wasn't, so in my opinion we ought to just keep it simple and elect the best players from that era regardless of the 'he-said-she-said.'

                  And to be clear players like A-Rod and Robinson Cano ought to be in a different category than guys with rumors around them. A-Rod and Cano each served lengthy suspensions for PED use well after the rules were established.
                  Chicago Cubs
                  Michigan Wolverines

                  Thanks Peyton. #18

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                  • bhurst99
                    All Star
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 9137

                    #2199
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    I'm watching the Jays-Reds game and the Jays announcers are talking about Joey Votto and made it sound like he is a lock to get in the Hall of Fame, just maybe not in his first year.

                    I'll be kind of surprised myself if he makes it. Great career OBP but I've never thought of him as Hall of Fame material, just kind of a guy who has had a great career for one team.

                    Edit: Of course, he just hit the game winning HR against my Jays.
                    Last edited by bhurst99; 05-22-2022, 04:13 PM.
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                    • zello144
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2013
                      • 2183

                      #2200
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      Originally posted by bhurst99
                      I'm watching the Jays-Reds game and the Jays announcers are talking about Joey Votto and made it sound like he is a lock to get in the Hall of Fame, just maybe not in his first year.

                      I'll be kind of surprised myself if he makes it. Great career OBP but I've never thought of him as Hall of Fame material, just kind of a guy who has had a great career for one team.
                      Hall of very good. Not HOF.

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                      • dickey1331
                        Everyday is Faceurary!
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 14285

                        #2201
                        Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Why do you think he won’t make it? He has what 7 OBP titles? His OBP is almost 100 points higher than the league average since 2007. If you exclude this year he’s above .300/.400/.500 in a 15 year career. He should get in.


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                        • Madden08PCgmr
                          MVP
                          • Feb 2017
                          • 2441

                          #2202
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Originally posted by dickey1331
                          Why do you think he won’t make it? He has what 7 OBP titles? His OBP is almost 100 points higher than the league average since 2007. If you exclude this year he’s above .300/.400/.500 in a 15 year career. He should get in.
                          I think he'll have to get to 400 HRs to get in, personally.

                          His numbers are pretty similar to Will Clark, Lance Berkman and Adrian Gonzalez. None of them will be in. Argo and Berkman had 200 more RBIs in their 15 seasons.

                          Votto definitely isn't a lock.
                          You want free speech?
                          Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

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                          • TheStormKid
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2022
                            • 14

                            #2203
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            I absolutely love Votto but I think if Carlos Delgado and Fred McGriff didn’t get in then Votto has at least some work to do if he deserves to get in. Personally I think Delgado and McGriff were about one solid season away from getting in. I was actually very surprised to see that Delgado only made 2 all star teams. Definitely one of the if not the most snubbed players of all time IMO.

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                            • Caulfield
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 10986

                              #2204
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                              Originally posted by TheStormKid
                              I absolutely love Votto but I think if Carlos Delgado and Fred McGriff didn’t get in then Votto has at least some work to do if he deserves to get in. Personally I think Delgado and McGriff were about one solid season away from getting in. I was actually very surprised to see that Delgado only made 2 all star teams. Definitely one of the if not the most snubbed players of all time IMO.
                              I don't have an opinion one way or the other about Votto but I'm a hundred percent certain eventually some committee or another is putting McGriff in. those 493 homers right in the heart of the ped era will at some point get the recognition rightly deserved
                              OSFM23 - Building Better Baseball - OSFM23

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                              • Majingir
                                Moderator
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 47666

                                #2205
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by TheStormKid
                                I absolutely love Votto but I think if Carlos Delgado and Fred McGriff didn’t get in then Votto has at least some work to do if he deserves to get in. Personally I think Delgado and McGriff were about one solid season away from getting in. I was actually very surprised to see that Delgado only made 2 all star teams. Definitely one of the if not the most snubbed players of all time IMO.
                                Delgado's main thing is that he wasn't exactly on notable teams. The 06 Mets was his only playoff season ever.

                                If he had more playoff appearances, and got to 500 HR,he'd have more eyes on him.

                                Even then, I dont think he'd get in the HOF, but he definitely shouldn't have been a "one and done" guy on the ballot. 5 seasons of 35+ HR, 9 seasons of 100+ RBIs, and just about won the MVP in 2003 (I know Arod easily wins if you judge just on WAR, but at the time people weren't using those stats. Delgado had way more RBIs, and a better AVG, OBP and OPS)€
                                Last edited by Majingir; 08-07-2022, 09:03 PM.

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