The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

[Kobalt]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

Why? So they can trade them to New York or Boston as soon as they do develop?

That's how small market teams have to build. Have to develop young players and then try to re-sign them. Thats how the Twins have done it, that's how Rays are doing it, same with rockies.

[Kearnzo]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

Errr Wrong, and besides you missed the point. Not surprised though fans of big market teams usually spew this BS to defend their competitive advantage... The MLB has become a complete joke.

I understand how much it sucks, and I can see both sides of the fence, even as a Sox fan. Yeah, I am glad we landed Adrian. Well, more than glad, I am ecstatic. However, I am not as excited going into this season knowing that the one other competitive team in the AL East aside from the Yanks is basically going to be blown up over the next few years, starting with Crawford leaving. I've really enjoyed following the Rays develop the last few years with a core of Crawford, Longoria, Pena, Price, etc. Unless things change, you know Price is gonna command 100m+ on the open market unless he declines, and once Longo's contract is up, it will likely be the same, unless something drastically changes either in the way the MLB operates, or Tampa moves the team.

But yes, on the topic of Adrian:

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

That's how small market teams have to build. Have to develop young players and then try to re-sign them. Thats how the Twins have done it, that's how Rays are doing it, same with rockies.

The problem is why is it their only option to be successful when the big market teams can simply trade away basically their best question marks and improve their team immediately? Every team should build through the draft, but big market teams can retain their best players or acquire the best players through free agency or trades. Meanwhile, regardless of their financial situations, these small market teams eventually have to cut payroll and start over.

Better yet, how many World Series have these small market teams won with their homegrown talent? The Twins? Rays? Rockies? The Padres can do their best to develop players, but eventually they end up elsewhere because they're priced out of the market for these players. If everything goes right for a small market team, they might be competitive for a couple of years and perhaps make a World Series appearance before having to restart. For a big market team, they just simply need to reload every year.

Baseball economics is broken and everyone from the players to the owners are responsible for it. When mediocre free agents are signed to contracts worth 1/8th of an $80 million payroll a year, you know something is wrong.

[Kobalt]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

The problem is why is it their only option to be successful when the big market teams can simply trade away basically their best question marks and improve their team immediately? Every team should build through the draft, but big market teams can retain their best players or acquire the best players through free agency or trades. Meanwhile, regardless of their financial situations, these small market teams eventually have to cut payroll and start over.

Better yet, how many World Series have these small market teams won with their homegrown talent? The Twins? Rays? Rockies? The Padres can do their best to develop players, but eventually they end up elsewhere because they're priced out of the market for these players. If everything goes right for a small market team, they might be competitive for a couple of years and perhaps make a World Series appearance before having to restart. For a big market team, they just simply need to reload every year.

Baseball economics is broken and everyone from the players to the owners are responsible for it. When mediocre free agents are signed to contracts worth 1/8th of an $80 million payroll a year, you know something is wrong.

I agree with you. Unless something is done in MLB like a salary cap, the same thing will happen every year with big market teams spending a lot of money and getting FAs or trading prospects to other team for their best players.
Maybe expanding the number of teams in the playoffs are another solution to give those smaller market teams a chance to be involved in postseason play and not the same teams every year.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

The problem is why is it their only option to be successful when the big market teams can simply trade away basically their best question marks and improve their team immediately? Every team should build through the draft, but big market teams can retain their best players or acquire the best players through free agency or trades. Meanwhile, regardless of their financial situations, these small market teams eventually have to cut payroll and start over.

Better yet, how many World Series have these small market teams won with their homegrown talent? The Twins? Rays? Rockies? The Padres can do their best to develop players, but eventually they end up elsewhere because they're priced out of the market for these players. If everything goes right for a small market team, they might be competitive for a couple of years and perhaps make a World Series appearance before having to restart. For a big market team, they just simply need to reload every year.

Baseball economics is broken and everyone from the players to the owners are responsible for it. When mediocre free agents are signed to contracts worth 1/8th of an $80 million payroll a year, you know something is wrong.

Baseball's economics have been broken from day one...this isn't a new development. Connie Mack's A's were broken up multiple times because he couldn't afford to pay the players.

The one thing the Padres kill me with is their draft. They have drafted horribly for years now. Hundley, Venable, and Headley are about all they have to show for the last 5 years or so of drafting. Part of it is they aren't willing to pay prospects so they pass on them, but the other part of it is they haven't evaluated talent very well.

Finally, if Padre fans want the ownership to up the payroll they need to show up to games. I had season tickets this past year and even though the team was playing good ball all summer, the place was empty unless the Giants/Dodgers were in town. You look at a place like Boston, New York, Chicago, etc and they sell out regardless of how the team is playing.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

Baseball's economics have been broken from day one...this isn't a new development. Connie Mack's A's were broken up multiple times because he couldn't afford to pay the players.

The one thing the Padres kill me with is their draft. They have drafted horribly for years now. Hundley, Venable, and Headley are about all they have to show for the last 5 years or so of drafting. Part of it is they aren't willing to pay prospects so they pass on them, but the other part of it is they haven't evaluated talent very well.

Finally, if Padre fans want the ownership to up the payroll they need to show up to games. I had season tickets this past year and even though the team was playing good ball all summer, the place was empty unless the Giants/Dodgers were in town. You look at a place like Boston, New York, Chicago, etc and they sell out regardless of how the team is playing.

Alderson sure loved his low-ceiling players. When you're going after players such as Matt Antonelli, Allan Dykstra, and Nick Schmidt with the first round, you're not going to have a good minor league system. It also doesn't help that the one guy who probably had some promise out of college ended up getting injured and was unable to pitch as well as he did pre-injury.

Towers also didn't draft any better, but when Moores sets limitations like he did in the 2004 draft, then you end up missing out on the best player (although why Verlander was never on their radar I will never know).

The Padres have gotten better at drafting and if it weren't for a last minute change of heart on Whitson's part, they'd have a pretty strong 2010 draft class. It's a matter of them developing these guys. It's one thing to have young prospects to keep an eye out in the lower levels, it's another thing to see if they do well not only in AA or AAA, but actually play above mediocre level in the majors (I'm looking at you Headley, Mr. Texas League POY).

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

The report is they offered Adrian a 7 year deal in the 23 mil a year range added to his 6.7 mil this year (so it makes it 8 years total).

They are waiting till after spring to announce it to avoid the luxury tax this year (and some to say free up a lot of money in the "cap" to make another possible big free agent signing).

[bkrich83]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

What other way can they build a team? Free agency? Pssh, either the Cubs would win a World Series or hell would freeze over if the Padres ever decide to do so.

That's not building a team. That's developing talent for other teams. Might as well just move to the PCL then.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

That's not building a team. That's developing talent for other teams. Might as well just move to the PCL then.

Maybe that's why Moorad bought the Beavers too.

Hell, the Padres might as well, soon they won't be able to afford league-minimum players.

[bkrich83]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

Baseball's economics have been broken from day one...this isn't a new development. Connie Mack's A's were broken up multiple times because he couldn't afford to pay the players.

The one thing the Padres kill me with is their draft. They have drafted horribly for years now. Hundley, Venable, and Headley are about all they have to show for the last 5 years or so of drafting. Part of it is they aren't willing to pay prospects so they pass on them, but the other part of it is they haven't evaluated talent very well.

Finally, if Padre fans want the ownership to up the payroll they need to show up to games. I had season tickets this past year and even though the team was playing good ball all summer, the place was empty unless the Giants/Dodgers were in town. You look at a place like Boston, New York, Chicago, etc and they sell out regardless of how the team is playing.

Why show up? As soon as they develop a really good player and you have a vested interest in him he gets moved to a high profile team. Why bother?

[boomhauertjs]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

And baseball wonders why it's losing out to the NFL in popularity...

[lonewolf371]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

That's not building a team. That's developing talent for other teams. Might as well just move to the PCL then.

I don't think small-market fans should expect their teams to keep all of their star players, but I do think it's a reasonable expectation that they keep SOMEONE at some point. What the Twins did with Joe Mauer or the Brewers did with Ryan Braun should be expected for one to two players even on small market teams. The Padres $40 million payroll is actually a little ridiculous.

That being said, I think the Padres probably won this trade in the long-term. They're better off than they were sitting on Gonzalez. If they think they'll be competitive signing Latos long-term in the future, I think the organization's money would be better spent on him than Gonzalez with that ballpark.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Ugh...watching the Boston/San Diego press conference is brutal. You have elated Red Sox sitting their telling me Adrian has wanted to be a Red Sox his whole life and you have Jed Hoyer up there all by himself trying to spin it like this is good.

Harold Reynolds had it right...a sad day for baseball.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Ugh...watching the Boston/San Diego press conference is brutal. You have elated Red Sox sitting their telling me Adrian has wanted to be a Red Sox his whole life and you have Jed Hoyer up there all by himself trying to spin it like this is good.

Harold Reynolds had it right...a sad day for baseball.

Harold Reynolds is such a hypocrite.

End of story.

Did he say it was sad for baseball when the Yankees offered A-Rod all that money, Then Tex? Then CC? Then AJ? Then Lee? And what about Werth being signed well more than he is worth driving up money on other players of that same caliber?

Same man who said Felix should not have won the Cy Young and CC should have because he is a "horse and signed for big bucks".

Isn't this not what Harold loves? Players getting more money? When San Diego said even earlier this year they had to trade, because they would not be able to afford to resign him. Hence he is getting "more money" now?

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Harold Reynolds is such a hypocrite.

End of story.

Please explain.

Regardless of how you feel about Harold, it cannot be a good thing when a hometown player is traded away not because the Padres wanted to, but because they couldn't afford to keep him.

I posted above, this isn't new and has been going on in baseball forever. I also with San Diego fans would be more supportive and sell out the park. That said, it's still sad to see Adrian go. I have really enjoy watching him play.

I just hope they hit on ALL 3 of these prospects like the Marlins did with Hanley.