The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Harold Reynolds is such a hypocrite.

End of story.

Did he say it was sad for baseball when the Yankees offered A-Rod all that money, Then Tex? Then CC? Then AJ? Then Lee? And what about Werth being signed well more than he is worth driving up money on other players of that same caliber?

Same man who said Felix should not have won the Cy Young and CC should have because he is a "horse and signed for big bucks".

Isn't this not what Harold loves? Players getting more money? When San Diego said even earlier this year they had to trade, because they would not be able to afford to resign him. Hence he is getting "more money" now?

FA is a completely different story. I think what he's saying is it's sad that the Padres can't give him what he's worth, or at least make that decision. Again, I don't blame baseball economics completely. The John Moores divorce has killed this team right now and Moorad isn't bumping up the payroll.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

FA is a completely different story. I think what he's saying is it's sad that the Padres can't give him what he's worth, or at least make that decision. Again, I don't blame baseball economics completely. The John Moores divorce has killed this team right now and Moorad isn't bumping up the payroll.

I can agree, but free agency is a part of it. That is why they have to get rid of him, because they can not afford to compete with free agency.

Small market teams not being able to afford a free agent market like the NFL can with the CAP is a huge factor in baseball. All they do is develop talent for big market teams, from the Pirates to the Padres. And you get a fluke Marlins once in a while, that the next year sell off all that talent after raking in the winnings doing a huge disservice to their fans.

I personally think the Nats signing Werth, a solid player, but not a 7 year 120+ million player to the contract they did hurts worse. At least the Padres are getting 3 top regarded prospects, and if they come away with 1 in 3 (which they will), they did good.

But Harold needs to spare the "sad day for baseball" remark to a freaking TRADE, when it has been a sad day in baseball since he played the game. And it only got worse with inflated contracts from big market teams.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Projecting Gonzalez at Fenway Park

This may cause you to lose your mind a little.

The Katron.org web site has a database that allows you to look at the balls a player hit at a certain park and see where they were wound have wound up at a different park.

So, let's take a look at the balls Adrian Gonzalez hit at Petco Park last season and see where they would have landed at Fenway:

It's important to keep in mind that there are dozens of variables that this chart can't account for -- pitchers, game situations, weather, etc. -- but it does show that Gonzalez's ability to hit the ball the other way should lead to a marked increase in production at home for him.

It appears as though Gonzalez hit roughly 15 balls at Petco that would have been hits at Fenway and most of those would have been for extra bases.

Yikes.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/projecting_gonz.html

That would be 30-34 HRs at Fenway... yikes indeed.

Now this isn't science, but still not a bad thing to ponder at.

[ryan36]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

I wonder if these account for wall height tho?

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

I wonder if these account for wall height tho?

That is why they said "extra base hits" ... so if not HRs, which some probably are not, then they are guaranteed high off the wall.

[djep]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

He's going to be a monster at Fenway, no doubt. I do wonder how he will adjust to the media scrutiny that comes with playing in Boston but from all accounts he is a very level headed guy who shouldn't have any problems. They gave up a lot but still - a huge win for Boston.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

He's going to be a monster at Fenway, no doubt. I do wonder how he will adjust to the media scrutiny that comes with playing in Boston but from all accounts he is a very level headed guy who shouldn't have any problems. They gave up a lot but still - a huge win for Boston.

Yeah, Hoyer (Padres GM) just said the same thing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/hoyer_gonzalez_2.html

Hoyer: Gonzalez will be 'a monster' at Fenway

[soltrain]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Yeah, Hoyer (Padres GM) just said the same thing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/hoyer_gonzalez_2.html

Hoyer: Gonzalez will be 'a monster' at Fenway

Yeah - nothing like helping out your old team, eh Jed?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

I don't think small-market fans should expect their teams to keep all of their star players, but I do think it's a reasonable expectation that they keep SOMEONE at some point. What the Twins did with Joe Mauer or the Brewers did with Ryan Braun should be expected for one to two players even on small market teams. The Padres $40 million payroll is actually a little ridiculous.

That being said, I think the Padres probably won this trade in the long-term. They're better off than they were sitting on Gonzalez. If they think they'll be competitive signing Latos long-term in the future, I think the organization's money would be better spent on him than Gonzalez with that ballpark.

The Padres did back in 2007 when they gave an extension to Peavy, but Moores thought it was a great idea to, let's say, partake in some "extracurricular activities" that led to a stupid divorce that screwed this team over. The payroll shouldn't be this low, but I guess that's what happens when an owner is allowed to buy a small-market team on credit.

Maybe MLBPA should investigate the Padres situation.

Yeah - nothing like helping out your old team, eh Jed?

I know that the White Sox were interested, but aside from Gordon Beckham, what would the White Sox have to offer that's better than the Red Sox package?

Hoyer's statement is shamingly obvious, Adrian would a be monster on any team. When a player can put up 35+ homers, an OPS around or over .900 with half their games at PETCO, why wouldn't he be in ballparks that are more fair for hitters?

[soltrain]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

[QUOTE=Rag3vsW0rld;2041912719][quote=lonewolf371]I don't think small-market fans should expect their teams to keep all of their star players, but I do think it's a reasonable expectation that they keep SOMEONE at some point. What the Twins did with Joe Mauer or the Brewers did with Ryan Braun should be expected for one to two players even on small market teams. The Padres $40 million payroll is actually a little ridiculous.

That being said, I think the Padres probably won this trade in the long-term. They're better off than they were sitting on Gonzalez. If they think they'll be competitive signing Latos long-term in the future, I think the organization's money would be better spent on him than Gonzalez with that ballpark.

The Padres did back in 2007 when they gave an extension to Peavy, but Moores thought it was a great idea to, let's say, partake in some "extracurricular activities" that led to a stupid divorce that screwed this team over. The payroll shouldn't be this low, but I guess that's what happens when an owner is allowed to buy a small-market team on credit.

Maybe MLBPA should investigate the Padres situation.



I know that the White Sox were interested, but aside from Gordon Beckham, what would the White Sox have to offer that's better than the Red Sox package?

Probably Viciedo and maybe Jordan Danks? I'm not sure. I know the Sox minors are terrible, but it's not like the Red Sox offer was far and away amazing. Just seems fishy.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

[quote=soltrain;2041912724][quote=Rag3vsW0rld;2041912719]

I don't think small-market fans should expect their teams to keep all of their star players, but I do think it's a reasonable expectation that they keep SOMEONE at some point. What the Twins did with Joe Mauer or the Brewers did with Ryan Braun should be expected for one to two players even on small market teams. The Padres $40 million payroll is actually a little ridiculous.

That being said, I think the Padres probably won this trade in the long-term. They're better off than they were sitting on Gonzalez. If they think they'll be competitive signing Latos long-term in the future, I think the organization's money would be better spent on him than Gonzalez with that ballpark.

Probably Viciedo and maybe Jordan Danks? I'm not sure. I know the Sox minors are terrible, but it's not like the Red Sox offer was far and away amazing. Just seems fishy.

It certainly does, considering that the two teams were pushing for this to be completed before Winter Meetings even started.

[lonewolf371]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Probably Viciedo and maybe Jordan Danks? I'm not sure. I know the Sox minors are terrible, but it's not like the Red Sox offer was far and away amazing. Just seems fishy.

The three prospects the Red Sox gave up instantly became 3 of the Padres' top five prospects in their farm system after the trade. Maybe that doesn't blow you away but it's definitely not crap.

[Dispatch]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Probably Viciedo and maybe Jordan Danks? I'm not sure. I know the Sox minors are terrible, but it's not like the Red Sox offer was far and away amazing. Just seems fishy.

Do you know what other teams were offering?

You have to remember that the Padres and everyone else in baseball knew that their was no possible way they were going to resign Adrian. It's not like they had a lot of leverage in the negotiation of this deal. And it's not like the Red Sox gave up scrubs. They gave up 2 of their top 5 and 3 of their top 10 prospects.

[soltrain]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Do you know what other teams were offering?

You have to remember that the Padres and everyone else in baseball knew that their was no possible way they were going to resign Adrian. It's not like they had a lot of leverage in the negotiation of this deal. And it's not like the Red Sox gave up scrubs. They gave up 2 of their top 5 and 3 of their top 10 prospects.

Well, it was reported the White Sox were offering Gordon Beckham, plus prospects.

[soltrain]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

And just to be clear - I'm not mad the the Padres didn't accept the White Sox offer at all. I like Gordon Beckham and think he is going to be very solid.

I'm just saying this whole situation seems super sketchy.