MLB Off-Topic

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I didn't know about this

[ATTACH]120826[/ATTACH]

[kmoser]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Alright guys this is random so I thought this would be the right thread for this question, hopefully lol.
I've been doing some research on the knuckleball lately and I've found that pretty much all knuckleball pitchers use it exclusively as their #1 pitch, and they'll throw a few other pitches like a fastball and a change sometimes as well. Also, it's very rare when a pitcher can master it like Dickey, Wakefield, and now Wright. And from what I've experienced in my time watching baseball I've noticed that most knuckleballers don't have much velocity on their fastballs. So this got me thinking, what if a flamethrower, like say Syndergaard or maybe even a reliever like Chapman, mastered the knuckleball and had it in their repertoire? I feel like this change of speed would be devastating for batters and have never seen anyone with high velocity throw the pitch. I'm not saying it has to be those guys specifically but it would be cool if a guy could hit 95+ with their fastball and then toss a low to mid 70s knuckle the next pitch.
I'm sure it's a lot more complicated and harder to do than I'm making it out to be but it was a late night thought that crossed my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought or anything you guys know lol. Would this even be possible?



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[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I'm sure somebody else could answer this better than I can, but I'll give it a go.

If they threw a knuckleball, they would tip their pitch before it released their hand. The difference is exactly as you said: Steven Wright and others are knuckleball first, so they can make their fastball appear as if they were going to throw a knuckleball initially. Probably also why they don't throw quite as hard.

Now, you might argue that the knuckleball is devastating enough anyway regardless of the hitter knowing about it. Sure, that's true. Now we have to get them to perfect the pitch. Why? What is a knuckleball that has spin? A batting practice hanger. There are many reasons why there are so few knuckleballers in the game, and besides the obvious that most people consider it a pitch type that is just "goofing around" and they more than likely didn't come up their baseball careers that way (as is the case with submarine pitchers as well), you have to be 99% efficient with it, or you are not doing your job as a pitcher. I throw knuckleballs here and there, but every other throw has tons of spin and is crap. They just don't have that pitch in their repertoire.

Also, I know you didn't ask this, but how effective might a 90 MPH knuckleball be? Probably not as effective. It wouldn't get as much "wiggle" as it could at 75 MPH, although movement would at that point be pretty drastic but it won't be effective for only 60.5 feet. You also need catchers to be able to hang onto most of these. I get where your head is at, but it is a difficult pitch to master. Even if Syndergaard got the knuckling down, he probably wouldn't be able to command it worth a damn.

[slickdtc]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Not the same, but Kershaw has thrown some eephus pitches. Accomplishes a similar extreme off-speed, strange trajectory but without tipping your pitch as it releases.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Alright guys this is random so I thought this would be the right thread for this question, hopefully lol.
I've been doing some research on the knuckleball lately and I've found that pretty much all knuckleball pitchers use it exclusively as their #1 pitch, and they'll throw a few other pitches like a fastball and a change sometimes as well. Also, it's very rare when a pitcher can master it like Dickey, Wakefield, and now Wright. And from what I've experienced in my time watching baseball I've noticed that most knuckleballers don't have much velocity on their fastballs. So this got me thinking, what if a flamethrower, like say Syndergaard or maybe even a reliever like Chapman, mastered the knuckleball and had it in their repertoire? I feel like this change of speed would be devastating for batters and have never seen anyone with high velocity throw the pitch. I'm not saying it has to be those guys specifically but it would be cool if a guy could hit 95+ with their fastball and then toss a low to mid 70s knuckle the next pitch.
I'm sure it's a lot more complicated and harder to do than I'm making it out to be but it was a late night thought that crossed my mind and I wanted to see what you guys thought or anything you guys know lol. Would this even be possible?



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I think knuckleballs at high speeds aren't as effective because the seams don't have enough time to catch the air and tumble. Dickey threw his in the low-mid 70s if I recall correctly, and I think that's about the top end of an effective knuckleball.

For a guy throwing in the mid-upper 90s, that knuckleball would likely be in the 80s, which I think is too hard to get the type of movement you associate with a knuckleball. You also tend to push a knuckleball, with the elbow a bit lower in your arm action, so I don't know if a high velocity guy could even physically throw an effective knuckleball without completely changing their mechanics.

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Yea the biggest problem would be that it would easily be tipped which takes away from what makes some of the best pitchers great.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Human ball-and-chain Carl Crawford designated for assignment; still due $35 million from the Dodgers until 2017.

Hard to do better (worse?) in terms of mid-career collapses than him.

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Anybody in the Cleveland area/big fans of the Indians have any insight on something I read this morning? Apparently in Nick Cafardo's latest column he put in an item saying according to industry sources as long as the Dolans own the Indians that the team won't ever move but if they should ever sell the club all bets are off. It seems like the Indians, save for that big run in the '90s can't seem to draw much.

Are there actually rumblings on sports radio or anywhere talking about all this?

[Themayorofawsometown]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The reason the Indians can't draw is because they've been bad. That start to put it together and the crowds will follow

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[Perfect Zero]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Anybody in the Cleveland area/big fans of the Indians have any insight on something I read this morning? Apparently in Nick Cafardo's latest column he put in an item saying according to industry sources as long as the Dolans own the Indians that the team won't ever move but if they should ever sell the club all bets are off. It seems like the Indians, save for that big run in the '90s can't seem to draw much.

Are there actually rumblings on sports radio or anywhere talking about all this?

The Indians have always been in this position. My Dad tells me that when he was a kid in the 60's, Arlington was close to bringing them here. Weren't they close to moving to Tampa before the Rays?

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The Indians have always been in this position. My Dad tells me that when he was a kid in the 60's, Arlington was close to bringing them here. Weren't they close to moving to Tampa before the Rays?

I've heard that it was the Giants that were in a position to move to Tampa and that got the city to pony up for the current ballpark.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Human ball-and-chain Carl Crawford designated for assignment; still due $35 million from the Dodgers until 2017.

Hard to do better (worse?) in terms of mid-career collapses than him.

Injuries really did him in...prior to all his injuries (and it's a long list) I think you could argue he was one of the top 5 position players in the game in 2009/2010.

[kmoser]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think knuckleballs at high speeds aren't as effective because the seams don't have enough time to catch the air and tumble. Dickey threw his in the low-mid 70s if I recall correctly, and I think that's about the top end of an effective knuckleball.

For a guy throwing in the mid-upper 90s, that knuckleball would likely be in the 80s, which I think is too hard to get the type of movement you associate with a knuckleball. You also tend to push a knuckleball, with the elbow a bit lower in your arm action, so I don't know if a high velocity guy could even physically throw an effective knuckleball without completely changing their mechanics.

Yeah this makes a lot of sense, it would be pretty neat if someone could throw a good knuckler while also have a plus speed fast ball, but like you guys said, would be very hard and maybe not possible. That thought had me wondering so thanks for the responses!

[Perfect Zero]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I've heard that it was the Giants that were in a position to move to Tampa and that got the city to pony up for the current ballpark.

Everybody was wanting to move to Tampa. The Giants and White Sox come to mind; I might be wrong about the Indians. I know former Arlington Mayor Richard Greene said that the Rangers were eying Tampa before getting the Ballpark in Arlington.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2012/4/18/2958535/territorial-rights-a-not-so-brief-history

Don't remember how I got here, I think it was from an article on The Ringer (now that I think about it, it was, but in an article about why the Raiders can't get a new stadium ironically) , but it's a great article on the territorial rights in the Bay and the history of them. We'd talked a little about that not too long ago, but I found it pretty comprehensive. Interesting that the Giants stadium was paid for solely by investors, why is that so rare now? Is it because it's been shown that cities will pay that owners just know they'll cave?

Hard to argue against Magowan in that he paid for a team that came with territorial rights so he has no need go give them up, but it's unfortunate I guess. Especially for a team with such history out there. It seems though that part of his argument is that there's a part of where the A's want to move that funnels right into Giants territory because of the rights and that makes sense 100% and I guess explains why they can't come up with a Orioles/Nationals solution with split TV rights.