MLB Off-Topic

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Whyd they shop Gary? They know he's actually on the team right?

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Whyd they shop Gary? They know he's actually on the team right?

I was just thinking that, too, haha.


Winter Meetings off to a good start. Hopefully some more big names are moved.

[Money99]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I can't stand him, but I don't think even my hate for him could keep him out of the Hall, it's just too difficult to justify.

More importantly, Susan Slusser:

"Well, with Bud Selig elected to the Hall of Fame and La Russa already there, I'll be adjusting my HoF voting accordingly."

"Senseless to keep steroid guys out when the enablers are in the Hall of Fame. I now will hold my nose and vote for players I believe cheated. "

So the net positive out of Bud being in the Hall is writers will start looking at the Hall of Fame as a museum of history for a game and not some cathedral of great men. I'll take it. Let's get this sorted out ASAP, I wanna see A-Rod go in first ballot!

To play devils advocate, I think the PED issue was more on the MLBPA side of things.
The players knew about the issue and refused to fix it themselves by constantly rejecting new drug policies in the CBA.
In the book "The Game", Donald Fehr even laments that he misread this and if he could do it over, he would have allowed more stringent drug testing earlier on.

I do believe that Selig and the owners knew about the PEDs earlier than they claim. But when they finally realized how much the fans and media wanted the game cleaned-up, their efforts to eliminate PEDS from the game were hotly contested by the union.

That's why I don't care as much that Bud gets into the Hall.
For any player who's been caught cheating, I hope the door is shut to them for life.
If Pete Rose can't get in for gambling, despite putting up the numbers he did, then neither should PED abusers.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The union fought the league on stricter drug testing because it's their job to do so. The owners could've locked the players out if they were truly so concerned for the love of the game, but they didn't, they turned a blind eye to it, made millions, and then tried to point the finger at someone else while looking over their revenue sharing checks. Selig stated up and down at the time that he had no idea that steroids even existed or were a problem.

Then when the union relented, accepted drug testing, years later the league lost the "anonymous" results and guys ended up getting in trouble for things that they had agreed on would never come out.

Pete Rose shouldn't make it into the Hall of Fame IMO because he agreed to never be put in, that to me is cut and dry. He had an opportunity to "stand trial" and possibly make it in, and he decided he'd rather save his reputation and never go in. He made that choice himself. The PED users are not comparable to me because the penalty for their crime was not a lifetime ban, it's just playing out that way. If Barry Bonds has, unknowingly to me, signed a document saying that baseball will leave him alone if he stops talking about steroids and he isn't in the Hall because of that, then the situations are comparable.

[Money99]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Again, to play devils advocate...

PEDs didn't really rear their ugly head until 1998 when the HR race occurred and an odd substance was noticed inside of McGwire's locker.
Yes, there were rumbling prior, but nobody was even really reporting on this.
Looking at the CBA history, a 4-year term was reached from 1997-2001.
The next CBA had included harsh penalties for PED use.

So one could argue that the owners weren't allowed to fight the issue until the former CBA had expired.

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with all of your points.
I'm aware the owners were in on the joke and had no problems signing players that were juicing or reaping the rewards from ticket sales when balls were flying out of parks at record rates.
Former President Bush is perhaps the worst enabler when it came to building a team based on PEDs with his Rangers.

But Selig, while being glib about the situation for too many years, was front and center in cleaning the sport up.
I honestly don't care if he's allowed in the Hall or not, but I believe he's less culpable in the PED era and at least attempted to make things right.
But I have yet to hear an argument that convinces me that any PED users such as Bonds, A-Rod, McGwire or Sosa should be inducted.
I feel very strongly about that level of cheating and while those players still got away with it by making millions of dollars, at least they'll catch some punishment when it comes to being kept out of Cooperstown.

Again, I dont mean to offend you with my polar opinion.
You make some excellent points and I like I mentioned, I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I just feel very strongly (probably too strongly) about the whole PED thing and I should probably just relax, lol.
Cheers.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Again, to play devils advocate...

PEDs didn't really rear their ugly head until 1998 when the HR race occurred and an odd substance was noticed inside of McGwire's locker.
Yes, there were rumbling prior, but nobody was even really reporting on this.
Looking at the CBA history, a 4-year term was reached from 1997-2001.
The next CBA had included harsh penalties for PED use.

So one could argue that the owners weren't allowed to fight the issue until the former CBA had expired.

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with all of your points.
I'm aware the owners were in on the joke and had no problems signing players that were juicing or reaping the rewards from ticket sales when balls were flying out of parks at record rates.
Former President Bush is perhaps the worst enabler when it came to building a team based on PEDs with his Rangers.

But Selig, while being glib about the situation for too many years, was front and center in cleaning the sport up.
I honestly don't care if he's allowed in the Hall or not, but I believe he's less culpable in the PED era and at least attempted to make things right.
But I have yet to hear an argument that convinces me that any PED users such as Bonds, A-Rod, McGwire or Sosa should be inducted.
I feel very strongly about that level of cheating and while those players still got away with it by making millions of dollars, at least they'll catch some punishment when it comes to being kept out of Cooperstown.

Again, I dont mean to offend you with my polar opinion.
You make some excellent points and I like I mentioned, I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I just feel very strongly (probably too strongly) about the whole PED thing and I should probably just relax, lol.
Cheers.

As far as the players, I don't think there's a big argument to be made. They aren't victims or anything like that. It just so happens that when the dust settles, we need to point at someone. In this case, instead of pointing at the people who caused the situation, we've rewarded and immortalized them. I agree with you on not caring if Selig made it in or not, he's a rich man and he's already gotten the spoils from his victory many times over... I'm reading about this and THIS GUY GETS INTO THE HALL BEFORE THE BOSS? Now I'm furious. I don't know what's even the point of the veterans committee voting in this manner, dude just left the commissioners office an hour and a half ago.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In news that makes me really happy, the local Chicago ESPN station reported that Jason Heyward contacted Barry Bonds once the Marlins let him go and he has become his personal hitting coach, working with him daily during the off-season. If there is anyone who can get Heyward's swing fixed, it's Bonds.

Would love to see Jason put up a 40 HR/40 2B/20 SB type of season one of these years...

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In news that makes me really happy, the local Chicago ESPN station reported that Jason Heyward contacted Barry Bonds once the Marlins let him go and he has become his personal hitting coach, working with him daily during the off-season. If there is anyone who can get Heyward's swing fixed, it's Bonds.

Would love to see Jason put up a 40 HR/40 2B/20 SB type of season one of these years...

This is the best news I've heard all offseason so far.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In news that makes me really happy, the local Chicago ESPN station reported that Jason Heyward contacted Barry Bonds once the Marlins let him go and he has become his personal hitting coach, working with him daily during the off-season. If there is anyone who can get Heyward's swing fixed, it's Bonds.

Would love to see Jason put up a 40 HR/40 2B/20 SB type of season one of these years...

I still don't understand why Barry was let go by Miami. Mattingly said at the time "I don't need to get into the reasons really..." which makes me think maybe there was issues with him connecting with the players or something.

I don't know...the guy knows hitting. I think A-Rod would make a good hitting coach too, personally.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I still don't understand why Barry was let go by Miami. Mattingly said at the time "I don't need to get into the reasons really..." which makes me think maybe there was issues with him connecting with the players or something.

I don't know...the guy knows hitting. I think A-Rod would make a good hitting coach too, personally.

Bonds unnerved Mattingly early on in the year, and they still have Menechino doing the heavy day-to-day work.

It's just too bad, but I hope Bonds lands another job. Until then, fix Heyward!

[ShowTyme15]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The new CBA has another "player unfriendly" rule that targets draftees.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/12/08/mlb-implements-another-player-unfriendly-rule-this-time-targeting-draftees/

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In news that makes me really happy, the local Chicago ESPN station reported that Jason Heyward contacted Barry Bonds once the Marlins let him go and he has become his personal hitting coach, working with him daily during the off-season. If there is anyone who can get Heyward's swing fixed, it's Bonds.

Would love to see Jason put up a 40 HR/40 2B/20 SB type of season one of these years...

This is fantastic news.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The new CBA has another "player unfriendly" rule that targets draftees.


http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/12/08/...ting-draftees/

I have 0 problem with that rule. It's voluntary not forced on them. And works out for the owners.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In news that makes me really happy, the local Chicago ESPN station reported that Jason Heyward contacted Barry Bonds once the Marlins let him go and he has become his personal hitting coach, working with him daily during the off-season. If there is anyone who can get Heyward's swing fixed, it's Bonds.

Would love to see Jason put up a 40 HR/40 2B/20 SB type of season one of these years...

Test that man!!

If Heyward clicks like that, all the other clubs could be playing for 2nd place next season. The potential this team still has is pretty scary.

[fugazi]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Test that man!!

If Heyward clicks like that, all the other clubs could be playing for 2nd place next season. The potential this team still has is pretty scary.

Heyward will never come close to those numbers...

He is what he is. If he was 6ft even no one would bat an eye at a perennial gold glover with great team skills and a usually acceptable hitter. But since he's 8 feet tall people are disappointed in him.