MLB Off-Topic

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I know people are saying run totals are going down so why are game times going up but that doesn't tell me anything at all. You could get 4 runs on 4 pitches taking all of about 5 minutes or you could have a 20 minute half inning that results in zero runs.

And that's the damn beauty of the game.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

This was the proposed rule (back in 2016):

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14604349/reimagining-baseball-limit-visits-pitching-mound-two-per-nine-innings

A team could have only its manager, a coach or a player visit the mound a total of two times per nine innings.

When a manager wants to change pitchers, he would just move to the top dugout step and signal the pitching change to the umpire; it would not count as a visit.

If a game were to extend to extra innings, both teams would receive two additional mound visits for the next nine frames. If a game were to go to the 19th inning, teams would be given another two visits for the ensuing nine innings.

Teams would also be able to save their mound visits during a game. If a team doesn't use either of them in the first nine innings, they would start the 10th inning with four possible visits.

Visits from a player -- be it a catcher or a position player -- would not count if they last 15 seconds or less

Genuine question: how is lessening the frequency of mound visits changing the integrity of the game? The rule simply enforces a finite number of visits, not eliminating them entirely when a visit would be necessary...the obvious correlation being the number of timeouts in the basketball/football (even hockey!). Wasn't it the 2009 WS where Posada would continually go to the mound to visit the pitcher...in the same AB?

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

This was the proposed rule (back in 2016):

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14604349/reimagining-baseball-limit-visits-pitching-mound-two-per-nine-innings

Genuine question: how is lessening the frequency of mound visits changing the integrity of the game? The rule simply enforces a finite number of visits, not eliminating them entirely when a visit would be necessary...the obvious correlation being the number of timeouts in the basketball/football (even hockey!). Wasn't it the 2009 WS where Posada would continually go to the mound to visit the pitcher...in the same AB?

You're asking for an answer to an opinion based question which isn't possible.

It's all an opinion and I truly respect them all but disagree that they are not necessary as part of the game.

I don't know your personal experience with them but I've been a part of them as both a pitcher in college as well as being a pitching coach in college.

Also as a manager for a summer college team, legion team and high school team.


Sometimes it was very beneficial to have someone come out to me in a stressful situation and ask me what I thought about how we wanted to handle a batter in a tight situation, or to hear that I was rushing my delivery a bit. Sometimes in a very nerve racking situation it was nice to have my catcher come out and ask me about what I thought about the blonde in the second row. Helps unnerve a pitcher in a strenuous situation.

Baseball has never been about pace of game, not sure why we all of a sudden want it to be now but again to each their own.


As per the article you linked. Having a manager stand on the dugout literally saves zero time since he just stands at the mound until the new pitcher gets there. Literally hands him the ball and walks away all while there is going to be a commercial anyway. That's just silly.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The funny part is, I don't think "pace of play" was ever really in anybody's mind until Manfred started talking about it. Sure, people who don't like the game will say it's too long and boring, and Joe West will complain about it time to time with Sox-Yanks games, but I don't actually recall this being an issue before.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The funny part is, I don't think "pace of play" was ever really in anybody's mind until Manfred started talking about it. Sure, people who don't like the game will say it's too long and boring, and Joe West will complain about it time to time with Sox-Yanks games, but I don't actually recall this being an issue before.

Exactly. All manufactured bull**** just like everything else everyone else whines about.

[Steven78]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Manfred is ruining baseball.

Just wait until next offseason when he has free reign to implement what he wants. How did the players association ever give him that power anyways?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Oh that Kris Bryant, he's such a dream.

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-cubs/kris-bryant-major-league-baseball-could-be-going-down-slippery-slope-rules-changes

[BigOscar]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The funny part is, I don't think "pace of play" was ever really in anybody's mind until Manfred started talking about it. Sure, people who don't like the game will say it's too long and boring, and Joe West will complain about it time to time with Sox-Yanks games, but I don't actually recall this being an issue before.

To be fair though, it's the people who don't like baseball who they are trying to interest with the pace of game changes, not the people who already love the game. They are trying to grow the sport and get more young people into it, which is pretty vital for the future of the sport, so presumably they've asked a bunch of people who don't like baseball what they don't like about it and then they're looking for ways to address those issues.

It's not about improving the game for baseball fans, it's about trying to make more baseball fans. Not convinced it's really the way to go as I don't think anyone cares about the game being 15 minutes longer, but I can at least see their motivation.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

To be fair though, it's the people who don't like baseball who they are trying to interest with the pace of game changes, not the people who already love the game. They are trying to grow the sport and get more young people into it, which is pretty vital for the future of the sport, so presumably they've asked a bunch of people who don't like baseball what they don't like about it and then they're looking for ways to address those issues.

It's not about improving the game for baseball fans, it's about trying to make more baseball fans. Not convinced it's really the way to go as I don't think anyone cares about the game being 15 minutes longer, but I can at least see their motivation.

I think everyone gets that...but baseball hasn't really "changed" for years and yet somehow it still keeps making new fans. They are all the sudden listening to the ESPNs/Colin Cowherds world who say baseball is dying, needs to change, etc. I posted earlier in this thread...this is something that has ALWAYS been said about baseball (even going back 100+ years) and yet somehow, someway it always makes new fans. Instead of trying to "change" the game to make new fans, they need to be promoting the game and showing people how awesome it is...that's how you make new fans.

I've told this story before...around 5 years ago I had a friend who "hated baseball" and thought it was stupid. As I talked to him about it I realized he really didn't understand it. This was right around the time the World Series was starting (it was the Tigers/Giants series in 2012) and I asked him to watch the series with me and I'd explain the game as it unfolded...if he still thought it was stupid after that, he never had to watch again.

Well, something funny happened...as I explained the game, what the pitcher was trying to do, what the hitter was adjusting/thinking of doing, why the infield was the way it was, what the managers were thinking about, etc, he was blown away by HOW much action there is even when nothing is happening. To this day he's a baseball fan...he texts me every opening day with a "Happy Opening Day" and told me he loves to have the game on the radio as he works around the house.

My point is that the game didn't have to change...he learned the game and came to love it. What before looked like a lot of people standing around doing nothing suddenly was alive and full of action. That's what baseball needs to do...not eliminate intentional walks or keep batters from scratching.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The problem to me is baseball culture clashes with the culture of young people, it's too conservative. Young people want fast, loud, and heavy. Baseball is slow, quiet, and soft. Any attempt by players (Bryce, Bautista) to give the game some edge is met with disdain from so called purists. If I'm a kid now and I see a "game" where I'm going to be scolded for celebrating my accomplishments, why would I even want to play? The spokespeople for the game just **** on it. Manfred talking crap, old players talking about steroids how pitchers are soft now and don't understand the art, Goose talking about how disrespectful it is to celebrate. I love this game, I really do, but I ask myself, if I was 13 right now and hadn't been brought up to put up with all of this bull****, would I care about baseball now? I doubt it. I don't think it's about game length or pace of play, NFL games are longer and have less happen.

Tyler Clippard weighs in with what half the people here have been saying for years: "I've never once had a fan say to me they wish the games were shorter. The only people you ever hear that from are ones who don't like baseball. They're not going to watch the games anyway."

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The problem to me is baseball culture clashes with the culture of young people, it's too conservative. Young people want fast, loud, and heavy. Baseball is slow, quiet, and soft. Any attempt by players (Bryce, Bautista) to give the game some edge is met with disdain from so called purists. If I'm a kid now and I see a "game" where I'm going to be scolded for celebrating my accomplishments, why would I even want to play? The spokespeople for the game just **** on it. Manfred talking crap, old players talking about steroids how pitchers are soft now and don't understand the art, Goose talking about how disrespectful it is to celebrate. I love this game, I really do, but I ask myself, if I was 13 right now and hadn't been brought up to put up with all of this bull****, would I care about baseball now? I doubt it. I don't think it's about game length or pace of play, NFL games are longer and have less happen.

Yes, but nfl games have more importance during the season. They only play 16 total games, and most every one of them is important.

Then you have baseball where Game 16 on the season is essentially meaningless, especially compared to football.



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[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think everyone gets that...but baseball hasn't really "changed" for years and yet somehow it still keeps making new fans. They are all the sudden listening to the ESPNs/Colin Cowherds world who say baseball is dying, needs to change, etc. I posted earlier in this thread...this is something that has ALWAYS been said about baseball (even going back 100+ years) and yet somehow, someway it always makes new fans. Instead of trying to "change" the game to make new fans, they need to be promoting the game and showing people how awesome it is...that's how you make new fans.

I've told this story before...around 5 years ago I had a friend who "hated baseball" and thought it was stupid. As I talked to him about it I realized he really didn't understand it. This was right around the time the World Series was starting (it was the Tigers/Giants series in 2012) and I asked him to watch the series with me and I'd explain the game as it unfolded...if he still thought it was stupid after that, he never had to watch again.

Well, something funny happened...as I explained the game, what the pitcher was trying to do, what the hitter was adjusting/thinking of doing, why the infield was the way it was, what the managers were thinking about, etc, he was blown away by HOW much action there is even when nothing is happening. To this day he's a baseball fan...he texts me every opening day with a "Happy Opening Day" and told me he loves to have the game on the radio as he works around the house.

My point is that the game didn't have to change...he learned the game and came to love it. What before looked like a lot of people standing around doing nothing suddenly was alive and full of action. That's what baseball needs to do...not eliminate intentional walks or keep batters from scratching.

It's true, there's alot of ignorance surrounding the sport too. When people ask me what's so exciting about baseball to me.

They often say something ignorant like there is no strategy in baseball. Pitch the ball, hit the ball, field the ball, that's it.

And you could argue baseball has the most strategy of any sport! But they don't see the little things like we do.

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Yes, but nfl games have more importance during the season. They only play 16 total games, and most every one of them is important.

Then you have baseball where Game 16 on the season is essentially meaningless, especially compared to football.



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Oh yeah I agree, but I don't think game importance matters that much either. People with no teams get up on Sunday with the intention of watching 3 football games. I definitely think that's a factor, but not the biggest one in my mind. There's a bunch of things, like sports specialization now making kids who used to do football in the summer and baseball in the spring pick one over the other.

I just think baseball has a huge optics problem. Kids love OBJ, because he's himself even though the league doesn't want him to be. Kids love Steph because he is someone who wasn't supposed to be great, dominating the league on his terms. Where is the opportunity for growth here in baseball? Bryce is ripped apart for joking about bringing fun back to the game. Who is the guy that kids look up to and want to be in a sport that doesn't want you to be yourself?

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Oh yeah I agree, but I don't think game importance matters that much either. People with no teams get up on Sunday with the intention of watching 3 football games. I definitely think that's a factor, but not the biggest one in my mind. There's a bunch of things, like sports specialization now making kids who used to do football in the summer and baseball in the spring pick one over the other.

I just think baseball has a huge optics problem. Kids love OBJ, because he's himself even though the league doesn't want him to be. Kids love Steph because he is someone who wasn't supposed to be great, dominating the league on his terms. Where is the opportunity for growth here in baseball? Bryce is ripped apart for joking about bringing fun back to the game. Who is the guy that kids look up to and want to be in a sport that doesn't want you to be yourself?

Yea very true, and that's the identity crisis baseball has. The unwritten rules of baseball needs to be shredded and thrown away.

I love bat flips, and attitude, from an entertainment standpoint. I loved it when Aroldis Chapman did a somersault after he got a save, or Bautista's batflip, all that stuff.

But like you said,there's no getting around it, baseball still caters to a more conservative crowd.

For every person that loves it when Puig flips a bat, there's another that calls it downright disrespectful.

And I know there's plenty of people on here that don't want the extra theatrics in baseball either, they prefer the more conservative feel of the game.

Baseball is stuck in an identity crisis.



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[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

To be fair though, it's the people who don't like baseball who they are trying to interest with the pace of game changes, not the people who already love the game. They are trying to grow the sport and get more young people into it, which is pretty vital for the future of the sport, so presumably they've asked a bunch of people who don't like baseball what they don't like about it and then they're looking for ways to address those issues.

It's not about improving the game for baseball fans, it's about trying to make more baseball fans. Not convinced it's really the way to go as I don't think anyone cares about the game being 15 minutes longer, but I can at least see their motivation.

I don't think sissifying the intentional walk rule is going to bring in a single new baseball fan.

I'm telling you (and no one has really yet to respond to it), if they want to change intentional walks, I have two better suggestions than they have right now:

1) Eliminate them entirely (force the pitcher to throw four balls to their catcher as well as possible without allowing the catcher to leave his box at any time during the pitch).

2) Defer to the opposing manager, then the batter as to whether they want to accept their free pass to first base. If either declines, they get their AB.

Here is a third option that I do not want, but it would be an interesting strategy (somewhat adopted from co-ed slow pitch softball):

3) In the National League, if the batter in front of the pitcher is walked with two outs (and they don't elect to pinch-hit), put that batter-runner on 2B. Maybe in the American League this can just be automatically assigned to the #9 hitter.

Though that has nothing to do with intentional walks.