What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

[Stu]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

I believe the reason Bonds wasn't asked to go, and Giambi was excused, is because of the ongoing BALCO investigation. One congressman also stated they didn't want to make this about one player.

[Stu]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

I believe the reason Bonds wasn't asked to go, and Giambi was excused, is because of the ongoing BALCO investigation. One congressman also stated they didn't want to make this about one player.

[Pared]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

IMO Roger Maris is still the record holder (non-steroid record holder that is).

You're not alone...

Same thing for the career HR record... that's another record that will be tarnished...

[Pared]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

IMO Roger Maris is still the record holder (non-steroid record holder that is).

You're not alone...

Same thing for the career HR record... that's another record that will be tarnished...

[USCTrojan83]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

1. What I said was not childish, like I said in my previous post, it was short and sweet to what I had previously stated.

Ok keep to your short and sweet idea there buddy. I'm over arguing with you on this point...

2. "You seem like that guy in the bar who has a smart-a$$ reply to anything anyone has to say" Once again you are assuming what I am as a person. Did I come and call you idiotic, childish or a smart ***? no. Who's the childish one here?

Yes you are that guy in the bar!!! And I stick by that. You could call me ignorant, stupid, or childish. But you haven't shown anywhere in this 'discussion' were having that the reason's for the increase in HR's is specifically due to roids...So I assume Ken Griffey was roiding when he was blasting out 50 a year....Puljos the same because he came out of AA ball and started mashing the ball right out of AA....You have brought NO EVIDENCE that roids make that huge a difference in AVG, RBI's, HR's anything....IF THEY DID, A LARGER NUMBER OF MLB PLAYERS WOULD BE USING THEM BECAUSE OF THIS MYSTICAL' GREAT ADVANTAGE'....your only justification was bonds had one wacky year of 73 HR's....he averages 42 in his career!!! Ted williams had a wacky year with a AVg od .400+...so Did Maris with 61 HR's...I could ramble a list...

Cheating in baseball has been evident from the Black Sox...to Now with Roids
Amhetamines have been the biggest drug abuse in regards to 'performance enchancing' drugs over the past 30 years!!! These have a more profound effect

3. "Everyone else on this thread didnt spark a fire under me because they actually came up with a solid rebutal/discussion in most cases" Are you the forum police? who are you? I sparked a fire under you. So what. Speak about what's at hand, and leave the insults for your woman or mother.

You were first to mention that you even sparked a fire....stating "I didn't mean to spark a fire" read a couple pages back

Forum Police? No...I am trying to have a discussion with everyone on the board and you are that guy who responded like a smart@$$ without bringing any evidence to the table...WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT IS AT HAND...Congress and Roids....Last time I checked Every post ive had has mentoined or referred to the such...

4. "The MLBPA strongest union...Well why not just throw every Large sports Union in there also? NFL, NBA, NHL" MLBPA is the OLDEST sports union around, that is why I said the strongest. Sorry for not stating "sports" in my previous post. NHL compared to MLBPA?? You're kidding right? Should I go further with that?

Nice how you left out the (if they even count) after the NHL....Read what I write...so NO you dont have to go further with that cause it was your mistake.

Oldest Union? So that makes it the strongest union in America??? you didnt say SPORTS union before...look on the previous pages!!! you said UNION in general...Which I debatted by saying the Off-Shoreman's, Steel Workers, and even the Prison Guard Union are stronger than the MLBPA...There is more levying power with any of those 3 Unions than the MLBPA will ever have....Did the country lose millions of dollars in 1994 when the players stiked? Nope the owners lost most and the fans lost respect... When the Off-Shoreman's Union striked the country lost so many millions of dollars they had to bring in a governmental arrbitrator after a month because the country was losing 10's of millions a day...

5. "Are you literally saying the MLBPA controls the prices of tickets??? WTF!!! Thats the owner's job to approve a ticket price increase or decrease...Owners decide who to pay and what to pay....why do you think Beltran didnt get the 10yr 200Mil contract he was asking for??" Wait let me guess there's no shared revenue. So the poor stay poorer and rich get richer. Only the owner's are the ones making money.......

What the **** does shared revenue have to do with ticket prices....If you field a payroll of 40 Mil/losing record....your ticket prices are going to be low I.E The Pirates....Higher ticket prices come with more talent/payroll/winning I.E. BOS and NYY...You stated youre all sad cause you have to pay the high ticket prices at yankee stadium for your kids right?? Blame that on Steinbrenner buddy, He determines team budget, payroll, ticket prices, and so forth...

I dont even know where u are trying to get at in the quote above...I never said there isnt revenue sharing nor do I understand where you got that assumption...Nor did i say rich keep getting richer and poor keep getting poor...but its almost true now that I think about it...

Compare the revenue that the Yankees and Red Sox pull in yearly from everything (Media, Souvenirs, Stadium Revenue) to the lower revenue Royals and Pirates....BOS and NYY keep getting richer because in part they have an owner willing to spend and there are is KC and PIT who stay the same payroll yearly because they have cheap owners and less talent...so the poor do get poorer and rich richer...

6. Fitness is Fitness??? You're 30+ you said. You have to be off your rocker to even sit here and say our modern day weights and knowledge of the human anatomy has not increased strength and endurance of our players today. Yup, 30+.....so what youre saying is, if I curl a 50 pound weight with modern day equipment, I'll be stronger than someone that curls the same weight with old equipment? interesting. I'll give you the nutrition and Tommy John surgery.

Were not talking ****ing free weights bro.....Have you been to a 24/hr fitness....a training room? There is so much work out equipment that is able to work out more specific parts of the body not just bench,dumbell,squats and lunges as they did back in the day...Im coparing the 1950-60's to the 90-2000's okay!! The better knowledge of how the body works allows an athlete in whatever sport to be able to concentrate on a specific zone of the body which in the 50-60's was not readily available...Are you following me?? Maybe I wasn't concise enough before?

[QUOTE=brev87]7. "Arthroscopic surgery which was not present till the early 90's..Just the simple ability to treat and diagnose injuries especially MCL/ACL injuries."
WRONG. I tore both my MCL and ACL playing high school football back in 88'. My surgery was performed by then Yankee doctor, Dr. Bonamo. BUT, when I had the surgery, I was off my feet for 8 months. That same procedure today is 150% better, I agree with you there.[QUOTE=brev87]

Wrong? 1988 sorry buddy i was off by a few years....90-88 = 2 years...its not like i said 90's and it was readily available to you in 1970....Same procedure today is 150% better thank you we finally agree....

8. "Does anyone in this thread think this guy is fighting a losing battle?? Or is it just me" I didnt know I was in a battle, nor do I want to be. I like discussion, not flaming.

I like discussion too....Please keep in mind Im not comparing the 1980's with the 90's....

I AM comparing the 1900-1970's to now the 90's or 00's in regards to steroids and anything else explained in this thread....

Back to work now...Ill check back LoL

[USCTrojan83]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

1. What I said was not childish, like I said in my previous post, it was short and sweet to what I had previously stated.

Ok keep to your short and sweet idea there buddy. I'm over arguing with you on this point...

2. "You seem like that guy in the bar who has a smart-a$$ reply to anything anyone has to say" Once again you are assuming what I am as a person. Did I come and call you idiotic, childish or a smart ***? no. Who's the childish one here?

Yes you are that guy in the bar!!! And I stick by that. You could call me ignorant, stupid, or childish. But you haven't shown anywhere in this 'discussion' were having that the reason's for the increase in HR's is specifically due to roids...So I assume Ken Griffey was roiding when he was blasting out 50 a year....Puljos the same because he came out of AA ball and started mashing the ball right out of AA....You have brought NO EVIDENCE that roids make that huge a difference in AVG, RBI's, HR's anything....IF THEY DID, A LARGER NUMBER OF MLB PLAYERS WOULD BE USING THEM BECAUSE OF THIS MYSTICAL' GREAT ADVANTAGE'....your only justification was bonds had one wacky year of 73 HR's....he averages 42 in his career!!! Ted williams had a wacky year with a AVg od .400+...so Did Maris with 61 HR's...I could ramble a list...

Cheating in baseball has been evident from the Black Sox...to Now with Roids
Amhetamines have been the biggest drug abuse in regards to 'performance enchancing' drugs over the past 30 years!!! These have a more profound effect

3. "Everyone else on this thread didnt spark a fire under me because they actually came up with a solid rebutal/discussion in most cases" Are you the forum police? who are you? I sparked a fire under you. So what. Speak about what's at hand, and leave the insults for your woman or mother.

You were first to mention that you even sparked a fire....stating "I didn't mean to spark a fire" read a couple pages back

Forum Police? No...I am trying to have a discussion with everyone on the board and you are that guy who responded like a smart@$$ without bringing any evidence to the table...WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT IS AT HAND...Congress and Roids....Last time I checked Every post ive had has mentoined or referred to the such...

4. "The MLBPA strongest union...Well why not just throw every Large sports Union in there also? NFL, NBA, NHL" MLBPA is the OLDEST sports union around, that is why I said the strongest. Sorry for not stating "sports" in my previous post. NHL compared to MLBPA?? You're kidding right? Should I go further with that?

Nice how you left out the (if they even count) after the NHL....Read what I write...so NO you dont have to go further with that cause it was your mistake.

Oldest Union? So that makes it the strongest union in America??? you didnt say SPORTS union before...look on the previous pages!!! you said UNION in general...Which I debatted by saying the Off-Shoreman's, Steel Workers, and even the Prison Guard Union are stronger than the MLBPA...There is more levying power with any of those 3 Unions than the MLBPA will ever have....Did the country lose millions of dollars in 1994 when the players stiked? Nope the owners lost most and the fans lost respect... When the Off-Shoreman's Union striked the country lost so many millions of dollars they had to bring in a governmental arrbitrator after a month because the country was losing 10's of millions a day...

5. "Are you literally saying the MLBPA controls the prices of tickets??? WTF!!! Thats the owner's job to approve a ticket price increase or decrease...Owners decide who to pay and what to pay....why do you think Beltran didnt get the 10yr 200Mil contract he was asking for??" Wait let me guess there's no shared revenue. So the poor stay poorer and rich get richer. Only the owner's are the ones making money.......

What the **** does shared revenue have to do with ticket prices....If you field a payroll of 40 Mil/losing record....your ticket prices are going to be low I.E The Pirates....Higher ticket prices come with more talent/payroll/winning I.E. BOS and NYY...You stated youre all sad cause you have to pay the high ticket prices at yankee stadium for your kids right?? Blame that on Steinbrenner buddy, He determines team budget, payroll, ticket prices, and so forth...

I dont even know where u are trying to get at in the quote above...I never said there isnt revenue sharing nor do I understand where you got that assumption...Nor did i say rich keep getting richer and poor keep getting poor...but its almost true now that I think about it...

Compare the revenue that the Yankees and Red Sox pull in yearly from everything (Media, Souvenirs, Stadium Revenue) to the lower revenue Royals and Pirates....BOS and NYY keep getting richer because in part they have an owner willing to spend and there are is KC and PIT who stay the same payroll yearly because they have cheap owners and less talent...so the poor do get poorer and rich richer...

6. Fitness is Fitness??? You're 30+ you said. You have to be off your rocker to even sit here and say our modern day weights and knowledge of the human anatomy has not increased strength and endurance of our players today. Yup, 30+.....so what youre saying is, if I curl a 50 pound weight with modern day equipment, I'll be stronger than someone that curls the same weight with old equipment? interesting. I'll give you the nutrition and Tommy John surgery.

Were not talking ****ing free weights bro.....Have you been to a 24/hr fitness....a training room? There is so much work out equipment that is able to work out more specific parts of the body not just bench,dumbell,squats and lunges as they did back in the day...Im coparing the 1950-60's to the 90-2000's okay!! The better knowledge of how the body works allows an athlete in whatever sport to be able to concentrate on a specific zone of the body which in the 50-60's was not readily available...Are you following me?? Maybe I wasn't concise enough before?

[QUOTE=brev87]7. "Arthroscopic surgery which was not present till the early 90's..Just the simple ability to treat and diagnose injuries especially MCL/ACL injuries."
WRONG. I tore both my MCL and ACL playing high school football back in 88'. My surgery was performed by then Yankee doctor, Dr. Bonamo. BUT, when I had the surgery, I was off my feet for 8 months. That same procedure today is 150% better, I agree with you there.[QUOTE=brev87]

Wrong? 1988 sorry buddy i was off by a few years....90-88 = 2 years...its not like i said 90's and it was readily available to you in 1970....Same procedure today is 150% better thank you we finally agree....

8. "Does anyone in this thread think this guy is fighting a losing battle?? Or is it just me" I didnt know I was in a battle, nor do I want to be. I like discussion, not flaming.

I like discussion too....Please keep in mind Im not comparing the 1980's with the 90's....

I AM comparing the 1900-1970's to now the 90's or 00's in regards to steroids and anything else explained in this thread....

Back to work now...Ill check back LoL

[SPTO]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

Here's my take on Mark McGwire. I don't mind him not answering questions but he could've done so in a much more dignified manner. He could've said "I respectfully decline to make comment" or something to that effect. Sure a lot of people would think he's guilty then but at least he wouldn't look like an arrogant arse.

His opening statement was quite telling and I could tell that the congressmen/women (not senators ppl) were starting to get exasperated. I think if McGwire was at least a little more co-operative things would've gone much more smoothly for him. Curt Schilling looked a little bad too by giving cooked answers and such but at least he was willing to give a little.

The most telling thing about the whole ordeal for McGwire was when he was asked how he even got into andro in the first place. It wasn't illegal then and if McGwire is as innocent as he claims he could've at least told them what got him into using andro. Instead by declining the way that he did it made it look like andro was a progression from the crude method of anabolic injections.

The players panel was less of a witch hunt and more of a fact finding mission and trying to feel out the positions of those players. You couple the union related questions to the players and the way the union/league dynamic was exposed in the Selig panel and you can how truly weak MLB is in regards to collective bargaining. Heck one congressman was telling Selig he has the power to put his foot down on the steroids issue but Selig kept saying "well it doesn't work that way." "Oh we can't have a one and out policy even tho I want stronger punishment" etc etc.

MLB is a complete joke. It's sad to see that one of my favourite sports has to have such incompetency in regards to its business and policy matters.

[SPTO]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

Here's my take on Mark McGwire. I don't mind him not answering questions but he could've done so in a much more dignified manner. He could've said "I respectfully decline to make comment" or something to that effect. Sure a lot of people would think he's guilty then but at least he wouldn't look like an arrogant arse.

His opening statement was quite telling and I could tell that the congressmen/women (not senators ppl) were starting to get exasperated. I think if McGwire was at least a little more co-operative things would've gone much more smoothly for him. Curt Schilling looked a little bad too by giving cooked answers and such but at least he was willing to give a little.

The most telling thing about the whole ordeal for McGwire was when he was asked how he even got into andro in the first place. It wasn't illegal then and if McGwire is as innocent as he claims he could've at least told them what got him into using andro. Instead by declining the way that he did it made it look like andro was a progression from the crude method of anabolic injections.

The players panel was less of a witch hunt and more of a fact finding mission and trying to feel out the positions of those players. You couple the union related questions to the players and the way the union/league dynamic was exposed in the Selig panel and you can how truly weak MLB is in regards to collective bargaining. Heck one congressman was telling Selig he has the power to put his foot down on the steroids issue but Selig kept saying "well it doesn't work that way." "Oh we can't have a one and out policy even tho I want stronger punishment" etc etc.

MLB is a complete joke. It's sad to see that one of my favourite sports has to have such incompetency in regards to its business and policy matters.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

[QUOTE=joeboo]McGwire, Sosa and Bonds can say 100x over and over again that they are innocent (and all 3 have so why you believe Sosa is the only innocent one is beyond me), but chances are I won't believe it. I can see the physical changes all 3 went through and the dramatic increase all 3 got in power as well. As far as Mac lying I agree...His legacy Taarnished Aggreed...

Sammy has lied before. He lied twice last year on different matters (leaving the clubhouse early and his corked bat).

As far as dramatic increase in power for Bonds Ill post a comment showing Bonds stats whih are quite interesting...

But with Mac and Sosa I agree

McGwire looked bad yesterday. I knew he'd plead the 5th on the steroid issue and I'm sure was told to do so by his lawyer. However, public perception of that is never good. Especially when he admitted to andro.

Plead the 5th = Guilty in most peoples mind....

Word of Advice BigMac - NEW LAWYERS cause they gave you bad advice!!! Would have respected him Much more if he admitted to steroids...

[USCTrojan83]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

[QUOTE=joeboo]McGwire, Sosa and Bonds can say 100x over and over again that they are innocent (and all 3 have so why you believe Sosa is the only innocent one is beyond me), but chances are I won't believe it. I can see the physical changes all 3 went through and the dramatic increase all 3 got in power as well. As far as Mac lying I agree...His legacy Taarnished Aggreed...

Sammy has lied before. He lied twice last year on different matters (leaving the clubhouse early and his corked bat).

As far as dramatic increase in power for Bonds Ill post a comment showing Bonds stats whih are quite interesting...

But with Mac and Sosa I agree

McGwire looked bad yesterday. I knew he'd plead the 5th on the steroid issue and I'm sure was told to do so by his lawyer. However, public perception of that is never good. Especially when he admitted to andro.

Plead the 5th = Guilty in most peoples mind....

Word of Advice BigMac - NEW LAWYERS cause they gave you bad advice!!! Would have respected him Much more if he admitted to steroids...

[Pared]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

You could call me ignorant, stupid, or childish. But you haven't shown anywhere in this 'discussion' were having that the reason's for the increase in HR's is specifically due to roids...So I assume Ken Griffey was roiding when he was blasting out 50 a year....Puljos the same because he came out of AA ball and started mashing the ball right out of AA....You have brought NO EVIDENCE that roids make that huge a difference in AVG, RBI's, HR's anything....IF THEY DID, A LARGER NUMBER OF MLB PLAYERS WOULD BE USING THEM BECAUSE OF THIS MYSTICAL' GREAT ADVANTAGE'....your only justification was bonds had one wacky year of 73 HR's....he averages 42 in his career!!! Ted williams had a wacky year with a AVg od .400+...so Did Maris with 61 HR's...I could ramble a list...

You know what though, neither have you... where have all these names you mention ever had any sort of suspicion of drug use? Performance-enhancing drug use? You mention Griffey... well, imagine what he would be hitting if he WERE on Steroids....?

Bonds did not start averaging OVER 40 HR's until 2000, around the time many believe all this started. You're right how a player can have a freak season... but look at your examples! Williams? A career .344 hitter? Maris? Who never hit over 39 HR's but hit 61 in his FIFTH season? You're arguing an individual all off a sudden, in their late thirties-early forties, has a HUGE upslide in their HR output, never hitting less than 45 in a season (again in the last 5 years), is doing so naturally? Barring the 73 HR season, you can honestly sit there, with a straight face and argue this? The facts?

Bonds HR avg his first 14 yrs: 31.78
In the last 5 years: 51.6

And this, all from (again) an aging player where at the same age, others are contemplating retirement..? An increase of 20 HR's A SEASON, when prior to these 5 seasons, he's never seen more than 46 HR's?

You've made a lot of great arguments in this thread, but you're seriously delusional here. It's not a shock you're from Cali, either...

[Pared]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

You could call me ignorant, stupid, or childish. But you haven't shown anywhere in this 'discussion' were having that the reason's for the increase in HR's is specifically due to roids...So I assume Ken Griffey was roiding when he was blasting out 50 a year....Puljos the same because he came out of AA ball and started mashing the ball right out of AA....You have brought NO EVIDENCE that roids make that huge a difference in AVG, RBI's, HR's anything....IF THEY DID, A LARGER NUMBER OF MLB PLAYERS WOULD BE USING THEM BECAUSE OF THIS MYSTICAL' GREAT ADVANTAGE'....your only justification was bonds had one wacky year of 73 HR's....he averages 42 in his career!!! Ted williams had a wacky year with a AVg od .400+...so Did Maris with 61 HR's...I could ramble a list...

You know what though, neither have you... where have all these names you mention ever had any sort of suspicion of drug use? Performance-enhancing drug use? You mention Griffey... well, imagine what he would be hitting if he WERE on Steroids....?

Bonds did not start averaging OVER 40 HR's until 2000, around the time many believe all this started. You're right how a player can have a freak season... but look at your examples! Williams? A career .344 hitter? Maris? Who never hit over 39 HR's but hit 61 in his FIFTH season? You're arguing an individual all off a sudden, in their late thirties-early forties, has a HUGE upslide in their HR output, never hitting less than 45 in a season (again in the last 5 years), is doing so naturally? Barring the 73 HR season, you can honestly sit there, with a straight face and argue this? The facts?

Bonds HR avg his first 14 yrs: 31.78
In the last 5 years: 51.6

And this, all from (again) an aging player where at the same age, others are contemplating retirement..? An increase of 20 HR's A SEASON, when prior to these 5 seasons, he's never seen more than 46 HR's?

You've made a lot of great arguments in this thread, but you're seriously delusional here. It's not a shock you're from Cali, either...

[Lonestar210]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

Um, Drugs are bad.

[Lonestar210]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

Um, Drugs are bad.

[Pared]

Re: What is your take on the Congress and MLB?

Sosa is a different story as well... not only have his numbers jumped during the period in question, he's also been caught with a corked bat.

Let's not forget that. Again, a disgrace to the Latin community.

"I no speak English well" my ***.