2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

So his knee injury makes him go from one of the best defenders at first to the worst statistically? I'd understand it if his range was extremely limited from the injury, but this year it had nothing to do with range, it was just awful judgement, and missing routine balls/throwing them away.

[HustlinOwl]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

So his knee injury makes him go from one of the best defenders at first to the worst statistically? I'd understand it if his range was extremely limited from the injury, but this year it had nothing to do with range, it was just awful judgement, and missing routine balls/throwing them away.

Okay if not the knee then what was it???

[SlimKibbles]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Okay if not the knee then what was it???

He was distracted? He lost his edge? Umm...he's not held accountable by his manager when he screws up?

[HustlinOwl]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

He was distracted? He lost his edge? Umm...he's not held accountable by his manager when he screws up?

sorry Im not buying any of that crap, lost his edge or not being held accountable, so routinely makes errors sure. Bum knee no real preparation in offseason and simply had a bad year

[CaseIH]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I think the issue with Votto this year was two fold....

1) He wasn't 100%.
2) He only got one game off.

Back in spring training, I read an article where Votto was quoted saying his knee still wasn't 100%. That, combined with Dusty never taking him out of the lineup (so what if he says he's good, you're the manager, not his best friend), I doubt his knee ever did get to 100%. His range at first base was nothing like it was back during his MVP season. He was a decent baserunner before the injury. Now, not so much. His power is way down from his MVP season (still higher than last year after the injury, when he became a singles hitter).

You say he K'd too much. His K rate was right in line with his 2010 MVP season (19% vs 19.3%) Yeah, he's not swinging as much as he used to (40.3% vs 47.9%), but his contact rate is up (80.9% vs 77.7%) and his swinging strike rate is down (7.4% vs 10.4%). I'm not going to discuss the RBI situation, because that is relative to the team. I can count the many times where Dusty took the bat out of Joey's hands by having the #2 hitter sacrifice the leadoff man to second, inviting a IBB or a pitch around.

Joey Votto had a great year. It wasn't quite to Votto's standards, but he still ranked 11th in WAR this year. He was not the problem this year.

EDIT:
I wanted to post this because it was an excellent article over at Redleg Nation

I agree with the lack of days off. I said earlier this year on the Reds forums that it was odd Dusty wasnt giving Votto any rest. In years past once in a great while Dusty would give Votto a day, and he would try to do it the day before or after a off day so he would get 2 days to rest.

Votto is so tightly wound that he gets himself mentally drained more so than physical, and needs days of to reenergize. In the past when Dusty gave him a day off he would go on a tear. I dont know if it was because we were fighting a uphill battle all year and Dusty didnt feel he could afford to take him out or what it was.
I do think it was just a down year and he will come and be the old Votto we have all come to love. He is a perfectionist so Im sure he isnt happy with his game this year especially his defense. The defense he played was some of the worst I have ever seen from a 1st baseman. He looked as lost out ther at time as Starlin Castro,lol.

[PhantomPain]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I agree with the lack of days off. I said earlier this year on the Reds forums that it was odd Dusty wasnt giving Votto any rest. In years past once in a great while Dusty would give Votto a day, and he would try to do it the day before or after a off day so he would get 2 days to rest.

Votto is so tightly wound that he gets himself mentally drained more so than physical, and needs days of to reenergize. In the past when Dusty gave him a day off he would go on a tear. I dont know if it was because we were fighting a uphill battle all year and Dusty didnt feel he could afford to take him out or what it was.
I do think it was just a down year and he will come and be the old Votto we have all come to love. He is a perfectionist so Im sure he isnt happy with his game this year especially his defense. The defense he played was some of the worst I have ever seen from a 1st baseman. He looked as lost out ther at time as Starlin Castro,lol.

Votto wasn't happy with his season, for the defense and some of the offense, which leads me to believe (based on his history), that he will right the ship.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/10/02/votto-disappointed-in-his-year-especially-defensively/

slickdtc: I think you HAVE to look at a player's salary to determine if they are producing enough to justify their compensation. I agree that Baker is the one that is putting him in the 3 hole and there is much blame to go there. With that said, I am nearly positive (not 100% because I don't work for the Reds) that when they signed Votto to that monster deal (again, I agree that falls on the ownership for signing anyone to that long of a deal) that they didn't anticipate his numbers to slowly decline. And maybe this has EVERYTHING to do with his knee and maybe next year he will have a season that fans will appreciate more (myself included). But you have to realize that no baseball team pays any player that kind of money without expecting that player to produce in as many facets of the game as possible. The year he got the contract he was MVP, but leading up to that year he had improved every year in nearly all categories. He was establishing himself as one of THE premier hitters (in all facets) of the game. He was hitting for power (30-35 hr's), RBI's were going up yearly and hitting TONS of doubles not to mention near the top in average. Since then he has started on a decline in several categories. It appears, at least hopefully, this has more to do with his knee than anything else though and hopefully with a proper off season, Votto can re-establish himself as one of the premier hitters in baseball, specifically in the 3 hole.

If not, then he needs to bat second and the Reds have probably the most expensive 2 hole hitter in the history of the MLB.

[Son of Sam99]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Votto is so tightly wound that he gets himself mentally drained more so than physical, and needs days of to reenergize.

I think there is a lot to this statement. Votto kind of seems like the kind of guy who maybe berates himself when he makes errors or strikes out but doesn't pat himself on the back when he comes up with a big hit. He certainly isn't in the same mind of Brandon Phillips or Jay Bruce who get pumped after they make a big play and therefore he may need some days off to relax.

[CaseIH]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Going ot be a interesting off season to see what Walt ends up doing to try to improve. I would surely think and I pray about it every night that Brook Jacoby is the 1st move the Reds make and fire this fool. While I do think Dusty has teaken us as far as he is capable of I would be OK with him coming back as long as that incompetent hitting coach is gone. Personally I think we need a new approach and philosophy thruout the organization and we need to get rid of every hitting coach. Just look at where AA and AAA offense rates, they cant hit either,lol.
I have always felt Price is our next manager, not sure exaclty how well he will do but he is a heck of a pitching coach. I could see when Dusty is gone Price being manager and Tom Brown move up to pitching coach and Corky Miller become a minor league pitching coach. Just my thought on what might happen in time.

[PhantomPain]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Going ot be a interesting off season to see what Walt ends up doing to try to improve. I would surely think and I pray about it every night that Brook Jacoby is the 1st move the Reds make and fire this fool. While I do think Dusty has teaken us as far as he is capable of I would be OK with him coming back as long as that incompetent hitting coach is gone. Personally I think we need a new approach and philosophy thruout the organization and we need to get rid of every hitting coach. Just look at where AA and AAA offense rates, they cant hit either,lol.
I have always felt Price is our next manager, not sure exaclty how well he will do but he is a heck of a pitching coach. I could see when Dusty is gone Price being manager and Tom Brown move up to pitching coach and Corky Miller become a minor league pitching coach. Just my thought on what might happen in time.

I don't get why Ted Powers never gets a shot. All of our pitchers seemed to get good with him.

[CaseIH]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I don't get why Ted Powers never gets a shot. All of our pitchers seemed to get good with him.

You know what I forgot all about Ted Powers, He would be the one to get the call to the majors and Tom Brown would move to AAA if Price were to take over as manager.
If I was a betting man I would bet the farm that Dusty remains as manager. He has 1 yr left on his contract, and the Reds FO probably wont eat his contract, I think its 3.5 mil if I remember right.
I just hope that Brook Jacoby is at least fired, he should have been fired after 2011 season. Its time for a new voice in that area, and as I have said before the whole organization basically needs better hitting instructors imo. I do think its time to let Dusty go, but I will be thrilled if Jacoby gets fired, I hate that guy. Between Jacoby and Ondrusek, I hate them like I hated Eric Milton

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

We have Ken Griffey Sr. down in the minors, give him a shot as hitting coach. Can't do any worse than Jacoby.

[DamnYanks2]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Why not start Bailey over a not 100% Cueto?

Dusty is not my favorite, but who would you want to replace him? I think the Reds are getting close, but in my opinion they're just not quite there yet.

I think the Reds are still another hitter or two away. Votto needs more protection around him.

[Cubfan]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

AP Source: Dusty Baker out as Reds manager:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-source-dusty-baker-out-reds-manager

Ouch that was fast i know the Reds wanted to make a deeper run the playoffs like every team does.

[SlimKibbles]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

AP Source: Dusty Baker out as Reds manager:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-source-dusty-baker-out-reds-manager

Ouch that was fast i know the Reds wanted to make a deeper run the playoffs like every team does.

Came here to post the exact same thing. Considering he had one year left on his contract, I'm a little surprised this happened. A friend of my dad's told me yesterday that Castellini and Jocketty supposedly had dinner the other night, or earlier in the week, with La Russa. May have been just dinner between former Cardinals colleagues. Or it could have been a consulting session. Or who knows? This guy is usually a very reliable source for info. I don't have any reason to not believe him with the connections he has.

[slickdtc]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Wow! Swift and unforgiving.

You know, I would be okay with Baker to get one last crack at it. But if that headline is true, then they did it right as well. I know the owner wants to win and he's pumped money into this thing to do so. Baker has had a fair shot to mould this club and take them where we want to be, but it hasn't happened. I think we're right on the line of not long enough and too long as our manager. He's had a shot, not a super long trial, but long enough to know yes or no he will or won't be able to get us to and win the WS.

Now the million dollar question: who gets in? I can see Cincinnati as an attractive position for a lot of managers. There should be no lack of options.

Very interesting and it's a good feeling to know that ownership isn't satisfied just as the fans aren't. We all want to go deep and win it all and do whatever it takes to make that happen. Wrong or right, they're doing what they think is best. Can't do anything but like that as a fan.