2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[SlimKibbles]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I doubt that's why they beat the Cards.

Oh I know. I don't believe that. Just a natural, easy connection for one to make.

[slickdtc]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I doubt that's why they beat the Cards.

Anyhow, I'm tired of people complaining about Votto:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/joey-votto-run-producer/

Votto is not a slugger and he never will be. He does what he does so incredibly well. It's like with Ichiro, he could hit with the best of them but people always wanted to see more HR's.

I don't want to trade what Votto does for a few more hits. That's his approach, he has won an MVP for crying out loud with that approach and there's no sense in changing it now.

Glad we got one from STL. Pissed we lost two, but it's better then nothing.

[PhantomPain]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Votto is not a slugger and he never will be. He does what he does so incredibly well. It's like with Ichiro, he could hit with the best of them but people always wanted to see more HR's.

I don't want to trade what Votto does for a few more hits. That's his approach, he has won an MVP for crying out loud with that approach and there's no sense in changing it now.

Glad we got one from STL. Pissed we lost two, but it's better then nothing.

Votto won the MVP because he hit for average, on base percentage, home runs and rbi's. I like Votto as much as the next guy and believe he is one of the best hitters in the league. With that said, he is not playing like a guy that should be batting 3rd. The 3rd hitter should be the guy that hits well and drives runs in. If he isn't going to or able to do that any longer then he needs to be in another spot like the 1 or 2 hole. I know the leadoff spot might sound ridiculous, but what does he do that isn't great for a leadoff hitter to do? He hits, he walks and he most importantly, gets on base. He is not a steal threat but he can be a heady runner. The 2 hole might be better though.

I would honestly give Votto half of next year to figure out what spot in the lineup he wants to be in. Its his team and his choice as far as I'm concerned. But if he doesn't start back on an upward trend of driving in runners, the 3 hole is not for him any longer. You don't pay a guy $20 million + a year to lead the league in walks without them also being a MAJOR contributor to driving in runs.

I am hoping he can do start being the Votto of old. The one that wouldn't watch 2 fastballs come down the middle of the plate without even the slightest hint of wanting to swing. The one that could hit a lefty's curve ball or turn on an inside fast ball when needed. You know, the one that would drive the ball all over the field. The one that belonged in the 3 hole and was, in baseball terms, was worth the salary he was getting.

Don't take this as a bi**hfest about Votto. He is my favorite player. But I haven't seen Votto going on 2 years now and I would like to have him back. Or if this is the new Votto, let him bat in another spot.

[cardinalbird5]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Sorry to chime in here, but totally agree with the guy above me. Votto should bat 2nd. That'd be the sickest 1/2 punch in the league, in terms of OBP. Matheny eventually moved Carp to the lead off spot since he was getting on base so well and seeing a lot of pitches. I doubt Dusty ever does this. He is too traditional.

According to most lineup statistical analysis...the 3 hitter should be one of your weaker hitter "better" hitters. I think Phillips or Frazier would fit this role. I'd go Choo/Votto/Phillips (still gets his RBI's so he is happy)/Bruce/Frazier/Ludwick (or Heisey)/Hanigan/Pitcher/Cozart. Cozart essentially becomes a 2nd leadoffman with speed and Votto still has the opportunity to drive in runs, albeit very small with Cozart's OBP.

Try this: http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-b...8=.377&Model=0

My above lineup would produce 4.36 runs per game
Dusty's lineup with Cozart in 2 hole produces 4.17 runs per game.

Doesn't sound like much, but that is the difference between scoring 706 runs in a season compared to 675.

[slickdtc]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Basically this isn't an issue if Votto is batted where he should be. But people 60 years ago batted players like him #3 so damn it! He must bat third!

[lonewolf371]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Sorry to chime in here, but totally agree with the guy above me. Votto should bat 2nd. That'd be the sickest 1/2 punch in the league, in terms of OBP. Matheny eventually moved Carp to the lead off spot since he was getting on base so well and seeing a lot of pitches. I doubt Dusty ever does this. He is too traditional.

According to most lineup statistical analysis...the 3 hitter should be one of your weaker hitter "better" hitters. I think Phillips or Frazier would fit this role. I'd go Choo/Votto/Phillips (still gets his RBI's so he is happy)/Bruce/Frazier/Ludwick (or Heisey)/Hanigan/Pitcher/Cozart. Cozart essentially becomes a 2nd leadoffman with speed and Votto still has the opportunity to drive in runs, albeit very small with Cozart's OBP.

Try this: http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-b...8=.377&Model=0

My above lineup would produce 4.36 runs per game
Dusty's lineup with Cozart in 2 hole produces 4.17 runs per game.

Doesn't sound like much, but that is the difference between scoring 706 runs in a season compared to 675.

Batting Votto second would be better, but his approach is perfect. He doesn't get many strikes, and he hardly ever swings at pitches out of the strike zone. I don't know why anyone would want him to swing more at pitches outside the strike zone. As the article I linked above illustrated, he's not very good on pitches out of the strike zone, so he's doing something that's essential for him to be a good hitter. Some batters hit balls out of the strike zone well; Cabrera is great inside off the plate, but Votto is not one of him. He's just becoming a better hitter.

The real problem that is annoying everyone is that Votto is hitting less fly balls than he used to. He's swinging over the top of the ball more than we would like. When he does hit a fly ball, it goes for a home run the same amount that it used to, but it would be nice if he could get under a little more. Maybe that's the residual effect of his injury.

By the way everyone let's remember that even with as much as he walks, Votto still has the most hits on the team. He's the best hitter, walker, and slugger that the Reds have. There is no one else that will drive in runs more, it's just that he's so good at walking that you're annoyed.

[slickdtc]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

He's too skilled and smart for his own good. I kind of think he may be a robot.

[HustlinOwl]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Imagine that 10-0 with Bruce hitting 4th

[Motown]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Votto's being pitched around quite a bit this year, & Phillips is reaping the benefits.

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Great to see Reynolds pitch a good game! Billy Hamilton is being called up Monday. I don't know how much he will play, but I bet he will be an almost exclusive pinch runner/late inning replacement.

[slickdtc]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

It's Mat Latos' world, and we're just living in it.

Big time pitching performance today. It may be Labor Day, but this dude put in WORK.

[SlimKibbles]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Latos has been a stud this season. I'm heading down to the Wacha-Homer matchup Tuesday night. Can't wait.

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Homer pitched like an ace as well tonight. Another HUGE win, plus we got to see Billy Hamilton's first stolen base in the big leagues!

[SlimKibbles]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Homer pitched like an ace as well tonight. Another HUGE win, plus we got to see Billy Hamilton's first stolen base in the big leagues!

That was really awesome. Everybody was on their feet when he came in the game. Honestly it kind of reminded me somewhat of when Sabo came in as a PR during the 1988 All Star Game and stole second base. Grant it, that game was sold out and GABP was only half full tonight, but still. It was loud and everybody was fired up. I know when I saw him walking towards first upon entering the game, I said, "BILLY HAMILTON! They are getting at least one run this inning." You have to wonder how much him being out there got into Nick Maness' head when he was on the mound.

Anyway, I know schools have started up and yesterday was sold out but c'mon. Tonight's attendance was absolutely pathetic. A shade over 20,000 for an important series against the Cards? That sucks. Those of us that were there were at least lively. This game would have been sold out in most other places under the same circumstances though. Disappointed to see so many empty seats, especially when they have the deal for this series where you can buy field box seats for $20 instead of $36.

[jasontoddwhitt]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I was in a good mood. Reds won the first two games of the series. Pittsburgh lost tonight. Everything was looking great.....

Then Dusty Baker happened tonight.

Where to begin?

- 8th inning, game tied 3-3, runners at the corners with two outs. With a left-hander coming to the plate, Dusty decided to bring in a LH reliever. Sounds like a great situation for Aroldis Chapman, right?

Not in Dusty's world, he brings in Zach Duke. Now bless his little stars he got the strikeout. But still, tied game, middle of a pennant race, against your division rival, does it make sense to bring in a guy who was pitching in AAA last week??? Why not use Chapman???????

- 14th inning, Ryan Ludwick leads off with a single. Billy Hamilton brought on to pinch run. Have no problems so far with Dusty's thinking.

But then you ask Zach Cozart to try and lay down a bunt? WHY!?!?! Thankfully, Hamilton steals second on a botched hit and run and then Cozart singles in the tie. Still though, Hamilton is one of the fastest guys in professional baseball. It's moronic to bunt with him standing on first base.

- Then he asks Devin Mesoraco to sacrifice Cozart to second. Mesoraco, who has more walk off hits than sacrifice bunts, failed to bunt Cozart to second.

- Brandon Phillips collected his 100th RBI tonight. Dusty had him bunting in the 15th inning. I wonder if Dusty would ask Joey Votto to lay one down?

- And WTF was Chris Heisey thinking trying to lay down a bunt with the WINNING RUN ON THIRD BASE WITH TWO OUTS in the 15th??? Has Dusty ingrained in these guys that bunting is the greatest offensive weapon in baseball?

- And I love Joey Votto, but he's been in a slump that makes Corey Patterson seem like a legit Major League baseball player. Between boneheaded plays in the field, boneheaded base running blunders, looking at strike 3 all night long, and hitting .210 over the past month, he's not looking like the MVP I know and love.