2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

ESPN leads off The 11 pm SC with Puig's walk-off today concentrating on his "walk-off style." 1) I'm sick of ESPN's love-fest with Puig and 2) I really hope a Reds pitcher drills that kid when the Dodgers come to town in September after that crap today.

Your first mistake was turning on BSPN!

The Reds shut him down as a whole for the series as well. He's a good talent but he needs to get a different mindset, or he will be getting drilled a lot in the future.

[jasontoddwhitt]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I love how Dusty never pitches Chapman and then when he's finally called upon, he's rusty and he promptly blows a save to extend the losing streak to four. Perfect time to gain ground on the Cardinals and we blow it.

The day Dusty Baker is fired will be a happy day for me.

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Absolutely pitiful. I'm pissed that Chapman blew the save don't get me wrong, but their offense is just a joke. 3 runs in their last 38 innings.
It's another reason if Chapman could be the headline of a package of an all-star quality batter, say Giancarlo Stanton, I would do it in a heartbeat. Having an awesome closer is useless if you can't get him enough work.

[lonewolf371]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Absolutely pitiful. I'm pissed that Chapman blew the save don't get me wrong, but their offense is just a joke. 3 runs in their last 38 innings.
It's another reason if Chapman could be the headline of a package of an all-star quality batter, say Giancarlo Stanton, I would do it in a heartbeat. Having an awesome closer is useless if you can't get him enough work.

I highly doubt the Marlins would give up Stanton for Chapman.

[SlimKibbles]

I highly doubt the Marlins would give up Stanton for Chapman.

I think for Chapman and a couple of top prospects they might. I mean if it costs the Reds Chapman, Hamilton, and Stephenson, would you do it? That's a lot to give up but Stanton could put up MVP numbers playing at GABP for half his games in a lineup with Votto.

[Son of Sam99]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Absolutely pitiful. I'm pissed that Chapman blew the save don't get me wrong, but their offense is just a joke. 3 runs in their last 38 innings.
It's another reason if Chapman could be the headline of a package of an all-star quality batter, say Giancarlo Stanton, I would do it in a heartbeat. Having an awesome closer is useless if you can't get him enough work.

Absolutely! Obviously Chapman can't go without some blame but you've got to win games in which your staff only allows 1 and 2 runs.

[lonewolf371]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I think for Chapman and a couple of top prospects they might. I mean if it costs the Reds Chapman, Hamilton, and Stephenson, would you do it? That's a lot to give up but Stanton could put up MVP numbers playing at GABP for half his games in a lineup with Votto.

Yeah but that's a pretty high price. I'm not sure I'd do it.

[slickdtc]

I might.

I love having Chapman. When he blows people away, it's mesmerizing. But I think that adds some false value to him. The pure stuff. If we could get Stanton for him and some pieces, it would be hard to pass that up.

This is a team built for a WS. Sometimes you have to sell out to make sure we get over that hump. Plus, having Votto is like the ultimate bargaining chip; he makes everyone better. I think we need that sidekick for him.

Yeah, I'd do it. We have options to close. We don't have any other options to put up 50 HR's.

[redsrule]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

It would be tough to give up Stephenson imo. He's their best pitching prospect. Hamilton is the fastest guy in baseball (arguably), but if he can't get on base that speed is useless.
Also if you look at the numbers, Chapman has actually been worse than Cordero when he was our closer (although Cordero made me want to scream every outing b/c of how scary he was). Our bullpen has been a strong spot. We would be fine putting someone else in the closer role, or even using a closer by committee.
If Chapman could lure a great bat to hit cleanup behind Votto, you do it in a heartbeat imo.

[lonewolf371]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I might.

I love having Chapman. When he blows people away, it's mesmerizing. But I think that adds some false value to him. The pure stuff. If we could get Stanton for him and some pieces, it would be hard to pass that up.

This is a team built for a WS. Sometimes you have to sell out to make sure we get over that hump. Plus, having Votto is like the ultimate bargaining chip; he makes everyone better. I think we need that sidekick for him.

Yeah, I'd do it. We have options to close. We don't have any other options to put up 50 HR's.

It's not Chapman; it's Hamilton and Stephenson.

You see, there's significant evidence that depth is more important to baseball teams than superstars. Look at St. Louis, the best team in baseball. They don't have a single guy that slugs over .500. Wainwright is an ace, but the more remarkable thing is that their #5 starter is Jake Westbrook. The best lineups and rotations in baseball are defined more by their depth than their stars. If the Reds deal way young guns with plus fastballs and outfielders that look like they'll play great defense with great base running potential, then their ability to restock that depth will diminish.

Hamilton has struggled getting on base this year, but he's 22. He has time to mature, and he could be a very good defender and base runner when he does. Stephenson has a mid-90s fastball and a great curveball. Chapman could still be moved to the rotation and he has a great arm as well.

From the Reds' perspective, Arroyo might not be around next year. Cingrani will likely be a permanent fixture in the majors soon. Cueto can't seem to come back from injury. Bailey will be a free agent in 2015. Let's optimistically say Cueto comes back, then by 2015 the Reds will have Cueto, Latos, Leake, and Cingrani. Bailey will hit free agency and Leake, Latos, and Cueto will hit free agency the year after. All these players will be hitting arbitration and cost more money. The Reds are going to need more young meat for these years to keep costs down, which is why Stephenson is so valuable.

From an offense perspective, let's say the Reds get Stanton. Then they need to resign Choo to keep a good leadoff hitter. Based on this year, I would say Choo will probably command at least $15 million a year in free agency. The Reds have a $100 million payroll this year and already have $75 million committed for next year, plus seven players hitting the next stage of arbitration. I don't know if they resign Choo.

So if the Reds don't resign Choo, they once again have leadoff problems. If they trade for Stanton, they've lost all their main bargaining chips for obtaining a leadoff hitter, and their main flexibility in filling out the rotation over the next few years when the Reds probably can't keep both of Latos and Bailey. And this is all assuming Cueto remains healthy; if Cueto continues to stay injured then the problem of dealing Stephenson is doubly confounded. There are big long-term ramifications to making a trade like that.

That being said, Stanton could very well be a Hall of Famer, which is the only reason I would even consider this trade. However, the Reds need a reasonable route of restocking the farm and team depth, because with Phillips' age the Reds could very well have a three-person lineup of Votto/Stanton/Bruce + scrubs in a few years, and as the Brewers and their #20 league offense are showing that's not exactly a recipe for success. Just as dangerous, the Reds would lose one of the main cogs in their long-term plans to continue to field a good rotation.

[jasontoddwhitt]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

This says it all...



Another waste of a gem by the rotation. Cards lose six straight games...and the only reason we gain half a game on them is because they played more games. Now the Pirates are in first place.

And don't look now, but the Diamondbacks are closing in on the second wildcard spot.

I'm curious to see if Jocketty will make a move tomorrow (like fire Dusty?). Or if he thinks his moves are Ludwick, Hanigan, Cueto, Marshall, and Broxton coming off the DL in August.

And I'm all for a trade package involving Aroldis Chapman. What's the point of keeping him if Dusty is never going to use him? What a waste.

[Motown]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[QUOTE=jasontoddwhitt;2045304078]This says it all...



Another waste of a gem by the rotation. Cards lose six straight games...and the only reason we gain half a game on them is because they played more games. Now the Pirates are in first place.

And don't look now, but the Diamondbacks are closing in on the second wildcard spot.

I'm curious to see if Jocketty will make a move tomorrow (like fire Dusty?). Or if he thinks his moves are Ludwick, Hanigan, Cueto, Marshall, and Broxton coming off the DL in August.

His moves are Ludwick, Hanigan, Cueto, Marshall, and Broxton coming off the DL in August

This is Jocketty's move...sadly

[slickdtc]

It's not Chapman; it's Hamilton and Stephenson.

You see, there's significant evidence that depth is more important to baseball teams than superstars. Look at St. Louis, the best team in baseball. They don't have a single guy that slugs over .500. Wainwright is an ace, but the more remarkable thing is that their #5 starter is Jake Westbrook. The best lineups and rotations in baseball are defined more by their depth than their stars. If the Reds deal way young guns with plus fastballs and outfielders that look like they'll play great defense with great base running potential, then their ability to restock that depth will diminish.

Hamilton has struggled getting on base this year, but he's 22. He has time to mature, and he could be a very good defender and base runner when he does. Stephenson has a mid-90s fastball and a great curveball. Chapman could still be moved to the rotation and he has a great arm as well.

From the Reds' perspective, Arroyo might not be around next year. Cingrani will likely be a permanent fixture in the majors soon. Cueto can't seem to come back from injury. Bailey will be a free agent in 2015. Let's optimistically say Cueto comes back, then by 2015 the Reds will have Cueto, Latos, Leake, and Cingrani. Bailey will hit free agency and Leake, Latos, and Cueto will hit free agency the year after. All these players will be hitting arbitration and cost more money. The Reds are going to need more young meat for these years to keep costs down, which is why Stephenson is so valuable.

From an offense perspective, let's say the Reds get Stanton. Then they need to resign Choo to keep a good leadoff hitter. Based on this year, I would say Choo will probably command at least $15 million a year in free agency. The Reds have a $100 million payroll this year and already have $75 million committed for next year, plus seven players hitting the next stage of arbitration. I don't know if they resign Choo.

So if the Reds don't resign Choo, they once again have leadoff problems. If they trade for Stanton, they've lost all their main bargaining chips for obtaining a leadoff hitter, and their main flexibility in filling out the rotation over the next few years when the Reds probably can't keep both of Latos and Bailey. And this is all assuming Cueto remains healthy; if Cueto continues to stay injured then the problem of dealing Stephenson is doubly confounded. There are big long-term ramifications to making a trade like that.

That being said, Stanton could very well be a Hall of Famer, which is the only reason I would even consider this trade. However, the Reds need a reasonable route of restocking the farm and team depth, because with Phillips' age the Reds could very well have a three-person lineup of Votto/Stanton/Bruce + scrubs in a few years, and as the Brewers and their #20 league offense are showing that's not exactly a recipe for success. Just as dangerous, the Reds would lose one of the main cogs in their long-term plans to continue to field a good rotation.

Absolutely. I'm witnessing first hand the downfall of a once dominant franchise in the Phillies. Threw a lot of money at big names, and the farm system is depleted. They're playing near .500, but 80 wins gets you nothing. They're facing a long hard rebuilding phase. Won't be easy, and won't be easy to sell to the fan base which has grown with the success of the past 10 or so years.

But ask a Phillies fan if it was worth the World Series they won in 08, and the couple of NLCS appearances and second WS appearance.

It's that balance of building and planning for the future, and risking mortgaging that for a shot at the whole enchilada.

Making the playoffs is great and it's still a new feeling for modern Reds fans. But going one and done isn't going to cut it forever. And the division isn't getting any easier to win and compete in. Pirates and Cards figure to stick around, and the Cubs are probably on their way towards more consistent competitiveness. Milwaukee may be chilling in the cellar for a while.

I don't want to be a good team. I want this team to be a great team and win a World Series.

Truth be told, I'd give up Hamilton + Chapman. I don't trust Hamilton to be a good enough hitter to compliment his speed and potential defense. Now Stephenson, not so much. Pitching is too valuable. I think we can more ably plug in a position player then a high end pitching prospect.

This could be the year to shake up the NL. It's PIT, STL, ATL, and us as far as I'm concerned. That's a 1 in 4 chance. If we're #4 of those currently, getting Stanton bumps us right there with whoever is the best of "the big four."

I'm not completely sold on a trade, but I wouldn't be upset if we did mortgage the future. Stanton is a known commodity. These prospects aren't, though upside could be higher.

And, I don't really trust Dusty Baker to utilize these players anyway. I think at best he's getting average play out of our lineup. He's not adding anything to help us, perhaps even stunting our potential. This team has so much going for it, but enough weak points to stop anyone short of saying we're a slam dunk for at least an NLCS appearance.

[HustlinOwl]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

getting murdered out here on the West Coast

[Son of Sam99]

re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

It would be tough to give up Stephenson imo. He's their best pitching prospect. Hamilton is the fastest guy in baseball (arguably), but if he can't get on base that speed is useless.
Also if you look at the numbers, Chapman has actually been worse than Cordero when he was our closer (although Cordero made me want to scream every outing b/c of how scary he was). Our bullpen has been a strong spot. We would be fine putting someone else in the closer role, or even using a closer by committee.
If Chapman could lure a great bat to hit cleanup behind Votto, you do it in a heartbeat imo.

We're already paying Broxton to be a closer.

They're just making it more difficult on themselves later in the season. Fortunately still 4 games up on second wild card.