Official Cincinnati Reds Thread

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

That's my thinking as well, unless they just happen to get a offer before then that they cant pass up. Plus since somehow we are in the WC hunt they might want to see until after all star break where we at before trading the Ace away. If they feel there is a good shot at a WC I could see then keeping things intact until right at trade deadline before doing anything. Mr C is a very optimistic guy, so hard telling what he thinks at this time. IMO the eye test says this team has no real shot at a WC, and its risky keeping a guy around like Cueto who has already had some elbow inflammation this season. Im sure the Reds have been fielding several calls about Cueto already, but I could see teams being skeptical of giving up a lot for a guy who hasn't ever pitched back to back 200+ innings in a season and already had a couple starts pushed back this season.


It will be sad to see Cueto not a Red at some point, as in my lifetime anyway Cueto has been the most dominating pitcher the Reds have had since Tom Seaver. Rijo had a short run before major injuries kicked in, where as Cueto has had a longer stretch run over these past few seasons where when he has pitched he has been 1 of the top pitchers in all of baseball.

Cueto has been great, no doubt. But as you mentioned he hasn't had back to back 200 innings. He is currently in his 5th consecutive year with a sub-3.00 era, but that includes a 60 inning year (injury).

Rijo had 6 consecutive sub-3.00 era seasons, which one included an 111 inning season. But he also had 3 consecutive seasons of 200+ innings and it would have been 4 if he had another 3 innings in 1990.

Moral of the story, if you remember Rijo, he was more dominant for longer IMO.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Cueto has been great, no doubt. But as you mentioned he hasn't had back to back 200 innings. He is currently in his 5th consecutive year with a sub-3.00 era, but that includes a 60 inning year (injury).

Rijo had 6 consecutive sub-3.00 era seasons, which one included an 111 inning season. But he also had 3 consecutive seasons of 200+ innings and it would have been 4 if he had another 3 innings in 1990.

Moral of the story, if you remember Rijo, he was more dominant for longer IMO.

Yeah, looking back at the stats Rijo did do it a little longer than I originally remember before the injuries set in. I might give the nod to Rijo as well, ater looking back at the stats.


Seaver was my guy growing up, so Id take him over any, even though he is in the HOF as a Met

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

We sure took a beating last night by the Brewers. Hopefully we get it back together tonight. Im actually not so sure that now that the Brewers seem to be healthy if they aren't actually better than us and wouldn't really surprise me if by the end of the season we end up in the cellar, unless the Brewers end up just selling everyone off which is possible.


Sounds like Fraizer is 1 guy thats safe if we decide to trade off some plyers from what Walt said. Personally Im glad to hear that, as much as I love Votto and BP, Frazier is the 1 that would hurt me most to see traded, since I have followed him since he was a kid.


I think if I was Walt or Mr C just about anyone else would be available at the right price, and that's including Votto and BP even though I had hope they would both retire Reds. I don't think any team would want Votto's contract even with him having a solid season, but its not MVP caliber like either, and even then probably would be hard press for anyone to want that contract.

[slickdtc]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Jocketty refusing to trade Frazier is exactly why Jocketty is not a good GM for this team.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Jocketty refusing to trade Frazier is exactly why Jocketty is not a good GM for this team.

Considering Frazier has now become the best player we have and has a team friendly contract it makes more sense in keeping him than trading him away. Id say Frazier and Billy Hamilton would be the only untouchables on the MLB team as far as position players goes. Not that Billy has done anything to warrant being untouchable, but the potential is there, and with his gamechanging speed its too soon to say he wont get it eventually. Now if someone were to offer a ridiculous amount of top prospects for Frazier Im sure they would listen, as I don't believe really any single player is actually untouchable on a team in need of retooling. I think untouchable is more or less saying its going to take 1 heck of a deal for him to be moved.

[slickdtc]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

There shouldn't be any untouchables on a bad team. Frazier is 29 and this team is gonna take a few years to reload and become a true contender again. Why not get a couple of prospects who will use the next few years to develop instead of wasting Frazier's prime years on a losing ball club?

Hamilton you have a case for since he's so young. But if someone offers you the moon (could happen since Hamilton has legendary speed), you gotta pull the trigger.

The only untouchable is Votto, and that's only because his contract is unmovable. So Votto is the piece you keep and hope keeps your club exciting while we usher in a new era.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

There shouldn't be any untouchables on a bad team. Frazier is 29 and this team is gonna take a few years to reload and become a true contender again. Why not get a couple of prospects who will use the next few years to develop instead of wasting Frazier's prime years on a losing ball club?

Hamilton you have a case for since he's so young. But if someone offers you the moon (could happen since Hamilton has legendary speed), you gotta pull the trigger.

The only untouchable is Votto, and that's only because his contract is unmovable. So Votto is the piece you keep and hope keeps your club exciting while we usher in a new era.

Votto the guy you should be trying to move because of his contract, but yeah I would say his contract makes him untradeable and that's even if he was havigna MVP type season which he isn't.


Frazier is a key piece and is cheap, make know sense to trade him, unless you were to get a ridiculous offer that is, then imo no one should be safe.


Unless your doing a complete tear donw you keep key pieces that are cheap and try to get rid of older players with big contracts. I doubt Mr C being like he is plans on being a complete disgrace to baseball like the Cubs and Astros did by trying to lose game on purpose by fielding a joke of a team. He wil want to just retool the team by trying to cut some payroll along with hopefully getting back some descent pieces for guys like Cueto, Leake, Byrd, and possibly Chapman, although I wont be surprised to see us keep Chapman.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

An elite closer is worthless to a non-contending team. And this is a non-contending team (Baseball Prospectus has our playoff chances at 1.1%). If Chapman is still on this squad come July 31st, Jocketty should be fired for insubordination.

No player should be untouchable, and yes that includes Todd Frazier (as much as I love him). If an offer comes in that just blows your doors off, you gotta take it.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Jocketty refusing to trade Frazier is exactly why Jocketty is not a good GM for this team.

I hate Walt but that is on Castellini.

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[slickdtc]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

I hate Walt but that is on Castellini.

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Really sounds like each tier of management (coaching, GM, ownership) does their best to step on the toes of the guy directly below them.

Owner doesn't want a good trade chip gone, so the GM looks bad. GM doesn't know when the hell to shut down your clearly messed up catcher, so your coach is forced to play short handed.

The players play the game and aren't absolved of blame for a poor season (although I wouldn't categorize this as poor -- just expectedly below average), but when each branch of the team is doing its best to handicap another, it stinks. It would be one thing to just be bad because we aren't good enough. I'd say that's what we are. But this is compounded by the fact that the manager can't manage the bullpen effectively, the GM isn't doing anything to help the team now or in the future, and the owner is calling the shots on who goes and who doesn't.

Tire fire.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

An elite closer is worthless to a non-contending team. And this is a non-contending team (Baseball Prospectus has our playoff chances at 1.1%). If Chapman is still on this squad come July 31st, Jocketty should be fired for insubordination.

No player should be untouchable, and yes that includes Todd Frazier (as much as I love him). If an offer comes in that just blows your doors off, you gotta take it.

Yes, technically no player should ever be untouchable and even though Walt said that about Frazier, I don't imagine if a crazy offer came in they would obviously make that deal.


There should be only 2 players on this team that should be untouchable unless a ridiculous offer were made for them and that's Frazier and Billy. Frazier is now our best player, an while Billy hasn't did anything yet, the potential is there so its too early to give up on that elite gamechanging speed.


With Chapman, I think you have to seriously consider moving him if your the owner and GM. I know Chapman is a ticket seller, but business wise along with being a small market it don't make much too much sense to keep around and pay a lot of money for a closer no matter how shut down they might be. Plus we don't have a lot of extra cash to add to payroll considering they moved Latos and Simon, and having a bad contract in Votto that more than likely cant be moved, money really needs spent elsewhere to keep the team competitive if not planning a major rebuild, which I don't think our owner is willing to do, nor should he imo, as I never believe in tanking in any sport like the Cubs and Astros did or like the Sixers have been doing in the NBA. And that's not trying to knock on Votto as has been 1 of my favorite players since he got called up, and he is having a descent season but for that money it needs to be MVP caliber thru his prime which isn't happening to not make that contract look really bad.


Really if they were to move guys they don't plan on being able to resign like Cueto and Leake, along with moving Byrd so we don't get stuck with him next season if he gets to a certain amount of PA we should get back some soldi prospects. Moving Chapman would probably get us the best deal because they would have him next season too. While Frazier would obviously get us a lot in return as far as top prospects are concerned, it wouldn't make much sense to get rid of our best player that has a team friendly contract. That is as long as they aren't planning a major rebuild, which I don't think they plan on doing.


As long as our young arms improve along with moving some guys we could be right back being in the mix next season, barring injuries to core players obviously which has hurt us now 2 years in a row.


Also while I don't think its fair to put the teams lack of wins last season and now this season on Price, Im not sure he is the answer at manager. We did need the change from Dusty, and I liked Dusty and I like Price, but it didn't work with Dusty and I don't think Price is probably the answer, even though I don't think any manager outside of maybe Bruce Bochy, maybe Girardi and Madden would fare any better with this team the past 2 seasons.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Glad to see they got it right and Frazier is starting at 3rd an not Matt Carpenter. Personally outside of Frazier we don't have any position players deserving to even be reserves in the All Star game so glad Frazier is starting especially since were the host city.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Hamilton should be by no means untouchable. He is obviously elite on the basepaths and in the field, but he has been atrocious hitting through a year and a half. If they get blown away for an offer for him, take it. I love watching B-Ham play, but he is not a Trout, Harper untouchable guy.

If I was GM, Chapman, Leake, Cueto, Byrd, Pena and BP (if possible) would be gone ASAP. I would include BP in a Chapman trade like the Braves did with Upton. I would try and trade Bruce and Frazier but hold off till winter if I don't get an offer I like. I would throw out feelers with Votto as well. See if anyone would take his contract.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Hamilton should be by no means untouchable. He is obviously elite on the basepaths and in the field, but he has been atrocious hitting through a year and a half. If they get blown away for an offer for him, take it. I love watching B-Ham play, but he is not a Trout, Harper untouchable guy.

If I was GM, Chapman, Leake, Cueto, Byrd, Pena and BP (if possible) would be gone ASAP. I would include BP in a Chapman trade like the Braves did with Upton. I would try and trade Bruce and Frazier but hold off till winter if I don't get an offer I like. I would throw out feelers with Votto as well. See if anyone would take his contract.

Damn you want to trade every single player we have,lol. Its too early to give up on Billy and Frazier is our best player with a team friendly contract. Every other player definitely should be shopped around and hard, including Votto and BP, even though I loved both of them and had hope to see them retire Reds, but Votto is being paid too much, and were not getting MVP caliber production out of him, BP at his age and that contract, and its looking like going by the past few seasons naggin injuries is hurting his production, although both BP and Votto still give solid production.


Obviously the right deal comes around no player should be safe if it makes us better next season and into the future. Im fairly certain that the Reds couldn't get anyone to take Votto's contract off their hands, but you never know look what the Dodgers did for Red Sox and the mess Epstein put them in when they gave him a open checkbook, so you never know, but its unlikely that happens.


Plus I do think with a few moves while keeping the main offensive players intact we can fix things and be right back in the mix next season for the postseason. But we do need to improve the farm and get some depth, so we don't have to have the perfect storm on the injury front to be able to have a shot at going deep into October.


I don't know maybe Im being too optimistic but I think getting solid value out of anyone they don't have future plans for because of lack of funds, along with moving Bruce because it don't look like he is ever going to be more than a low average streaky power hitter, we could fix this thing. Along with probably looking for a more polished manager to lead the team.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Damn you want to trade every single player we have,lol. Its too early to give up on Billy and Frazier is our best player with a team friendly contract. Every other player definitely should be shopped around and hard, including Votto and BP, even though I loved both of them and had hope to see them retire Reds, but Votto is being paid too much, and were not getting MVP caliber production out of him, BP at his age and that contract, and its looking like going by the past few seasons naggin injuries is hurting his production, although both BP and Votto still give solid production.


Obviously the right deal comes around no player should be safe if it makes us better next season and into the future. Im fairly certain that the Reds couldn't get anyone to take Votto's contract off their hands, but you never know look what the Dodgers did for Red Sox and the mess Epstein put them in when they gave him a open checkbook, so you never know, but its unlikely that happens.


Plus I do think with a few moves while keeping the main offensive players intact we can fix things and be right back in the mix next season for the postseason. But we do need to improve the farm and get some depth, so we don't have to have the perfect storm on the injury front to be able to have a shot at going deep into October.


I don't know maybe Im being too optimistic but I think getting solid value out of anyone they don't have future plans for because of lack of funds, along with moving Bruce because it don't look like he is ever going to be more than a low average streaky power hitter, we could fix this thing. Along with probably looking for a more polished manager to lead the team.

No, I want them to get rid of guys that will not help us win 2 years from now (sans Frazier). I didn't say give up on B-Ham, but he has a career .275 OBP almost 2 years in. That is Willy Taveres territory.

The Reds need to build for 2018. They have good young pitching. A lot of it. Stephenson has ace material. They will have Bailey for better or worse. Iglesias/DeScalfini/Lorenzen/Garrett/Moscot all have bright futures. Even Barrett Austin, a fill in from the Broxton trade is having a very good year and could be one to watch. Hoover looks like a closer right now.
Suarez, despite his defense, looks good so far. Push comes to shove, they can move him to second if Cozart keeps hitting like he did this year next year.
They have Winker and Yorman Rodriguez who have been solid so far in the minors. So was Phil Ervin before he got hurt.

If the Reds trade Chapman, Cueto, Parra, Pena and Leake (at the minimum), they should get 3-4 top 100 prospects back, plus a couple other mid level guys. The Reds have done a very good job of getting their farm system to the major leagues. Votto/Mes/Hamilton/Bruce/Cozart/Frazier. That is 6 opening day starters.