Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

You guys think that 2k would abandon the VC ship after enough backlash? Or is it a lost cause?

I think it's here to stay, but I think backlash on certain things like using it to adjust a teams rotations will go away. Or at least if hope so. Just crazy!

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

I don't think you truly got my message. I would love to know what changes were made staff-wise at 2K. What was their plan going forward? Who came up with VC? Who created it/why, what was their motive? Was it to make the game better, was it to make more money, was it to do both?

Why? My guess is that VC is there as another way to generate additional revenue. I know some of you only choose to look at this game in a bubble or vacuum, but practically every game is doing the same thing on some level. Should VC permeate every aspect of the offline game? Of course not. But by most accounts 2K released the most realistic-playing current gen game then a few months released what most say is easily the best playing basketball game ever with their first next gen effort. It's a launch game. It's a first year effort. Everything doesn't have to be doom and gloom when they're just getting started.

All great ideas, but poor implementation when your servers are really bad. They make so much money, invest in your server park. There shouldn't be any problems at all.


Why did they add cloud storage, why is an online connection needed, why ...? Notice that I'm not talking about current features that are present or those that got removed. 2K was driving on the sim-highway and took a wrong exit, no idea what's the name of that highway or/and what direction they are heading in.

Should server performance be better? Of course. But the game just released less than a week ago - I'd think they'd deserve *some* consideration especially given they're attempting something new. Any gamer should know it's rare for a game with ambitious online features to work perfectly out of the box.

The biggest game of the year (Grand Theft Auto V) had massive online problems when it launched that took a while to resolve. Most online-specific games like Battlefield or Call of Duty frequently have online issues at launch. I'd prefer 2K didn't bind some of the game's features to online functionality myself. But the game's been out less than a week and it's not like these type issues aren't experienced by other games. It doesn't need to be declared a failure so quickly imo.

What supermati wrote, is something I agree with and what has been posted before. They try to cater to 2 different kind of players.

I disagree that there are two distinct kind of players - there are all types of people that play the game. I'm considered a casual myself. But there are many pure sim guys that prefer not to take the time to call/learn plays, play 12min quarters, don't feel the need to run 30-team Associations, etc. I love playing 12min quarters, call plays, etc. Again, there are all types of people that play this game; I don't see why some feel it needs to be exclusive to what's likely the game's smallest demographic.

We're probably a very small sim crowd or relatively sim but I want to play an actual NBA game and not something unrealistic. That's why NBA Jam is there.

And of course the inevitable hyperbole, bringing up NBA Jam and inferring the game is no longer realistic. Listen, knock yourselves out complaining that it's an arcade game now. I'm going to enjoy playing.

[b0ck3n]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

Alright guys let's take a step back and look at what we've got here. 2K14NG is a launch game on a new system. It's running on a new engine, the gameplay has continued to improve over CG in a sim way, and then there's the whole visual fidelity thing which none of you care about (tell me again why you're not just playing CG?). Game development runs on schedules and budgets, and the things I just mentioned chews up alot of both. As for MyGM and MyCareer, they obviously wanted to improve on the modes, and I for one completely agree - CG Association and MyCareer were shallow and flawed, just about unplayable without mods. What we have now in those two modes is, as expected, not perfect, but something to build on.

What does this mean for the future? I don't know that 2K will abandon CG, but even if they don't, with the new engine in place, alot more of the schedule/budget can be assigned to adding and polishing modes and features (since NG isn't a simple port they haven't actually removed modes, they would require more work to be implemented). 2K offered us a real next gen product, AND an updated CG product that still features all the things we love about the series. I'm not worried about the direction they're taking (apart from VC, VC is the devil), I'm very optimistic about the future. I know next year's game will be fully fleshed out with modes and features, and over time all the online kinks on the new system will be worked out.

[Sundown]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

That actually sounds on point. I ignored NBA Live for over ten years, but now I admit I miss it - not from a gameplay standpoint - but from what it meant for basketball gaming in general. I much preferred the time when one game concentrated on pick-up-and-play while the other made no qualms about setting out to be as real and authentic as possible.

You're right, it definitely feels like 2K's trying to cater to both crowds and its created a bit of an identity crisis.

It almost feels like there's two leadership contingents within 2K.

One that is trying to add authenticity wherever possible-- ie, Beluba's efforts every year to incorporate and balance every possible basketball move with all its nuances and have them all feel good.

I would say the visual team is pretty good about this, too. And no one can hate on more authentic visuals.

Then there's this other contingent that seems to be a casual fan of the sport. It feels like they're liable to swing a hammer at anything that they think other casual fans won't understand, use, or will think looks too scary however authentic or useful it might actually be, regardless of how long it's been in the game or how well it's worked-- Practice Plays, D-League, Summer League, and now the commonly used DEFENSIVE SETTINGS. This is the heart, soul, and guts of defensive coaching! Now it's reduced to a simple dropdown list with 8 options. Talk about eliminating all depth.

I'm seriously kind of scared that playbooks will be the next to go.

[Sundown]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

I think it's here to stay, but I think backlash on certain things like using it to adjust a teams rotations will go away. Or at least if hope so. Just crazy!

I'm fine with little costs like those to adjust team rotations. If we treat VC as XP, it's a pittance and it's like one of those freebie initial unlocks in any other game.

What I'm not cool with is 7K for a pair of shoes. 7K. That's like 10 games. Good luck expanding your collection.

[silverskier]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

It seems that the modes where you have to pay Virtual Coins have been perfectly implemented in the game. On the other hand, the game modes where you don't have to spend VC are bad implemented or totally gone.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

I'm fine with little costs like those to adjust team rotations. If we treat VC as XP, it's a pittance and it's like one of those freebie initial unlocks in any other game.

What I'm not cool with is 7K for a pair of shoes. 7K. That's like 10 games. Good luck expanding your collection.

To me the only thing I want to see cost money would be for let's say buying the 79 sonics or 93 suns teams as a DLC. Things to add to the game like an all star weekend, classic teams, dunk contests, or things like that. Maybe even retro jerseys. But I disagree with charging any VC for editing things in the game. Maybe if in my GM I wanted to buy a car to drive to the arena in or a house in the suburbs then sure but editing rotations?! Lol

[Sundown]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

To me the only thing I want to see cost money would be for let's say buying the 79 sonics or 93 suns teams as a DLC. Things to add to the game like an all star weekend, classic teams, dunk contests, or things like that. Maybe even retro jerseys. But I disagree with charging any VC for editing things in the game. Maybe if in my GM I wanted to buy a car to drive to the arena in or a house in the suburbs then sure but editing rotations?! Lol

Well VC isn't really money. It's more like XP you earn from playing the game. 2K kind of shot themselves in the foot by calling it Virtual Currency, so it is forever associated with and thought of as costing real money, when in fact a fair amount is made just by playing the game.

It's a bad look that makes them look more like Farmville. Games like BF4 also have paid early unlocks but it doesn't get nearly the same backlash. Meanwhile, players recoil at seeing the shiny gold coins even though they're paying the equivalent of XP that they got playing for free, when real P2W and Farmville type games actually cost you currency to play sometimes.

They should have called it 2K Points or Baller Creds something innocuous.

[franzis]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

Well VC isn't really money. It's more like XP you earn from playing the game. 2K kind of shot themselves in the foot by calling it Virtual Currency, so it is forever associated with and thought of as costing real money, when in fact a fair amount is made just by playing the game.

It's a bad look that makes them look more like Farmville. Games like BF4 also have paid early unlocks but it doesn't get nearly the same backlash. Meanwhile, players recoil at seeing the shiny gold coins even though they're paying the equivalent of XP that they got playing for free, when real P2W and Farmville type games actually cost you currency to play sometimes.

They should have called it 2K Points or Baller Creds something innocuous.

Man, calling it "Currency" is the only "ethic" thing that 2k did in the whole VC affair, showing at least some respect to customers.
And, trust me, the problem is not the name for sure.
As more and more people are saying, you cannot enjoy all the modes/features only on the basis of VC earned by playing the game.

[JasonMartin]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

Should server performance be better? Of course. But the game just released less than a week ago - I'd think they'd deserve *some* consideration especially given they're attempting something new. Any gamer should know it's rare for a game with ambitious online features to work perfectly out of the box.

The biggest game of the year (Grand Theft Auto V) had massive online problems when it launched that took a while to resolve. Most online-specific games like Battlefield or Call of Duty frequently have online issues at launch. I'd prefer 2K didn't bind some of the game's features to online functionality myself. But the game's been out less than a week and it's not like these type issues aren't experienced by other games. It doesn't need to be declared a failure so quickly imo.



I disagree that there are two distinct kind of players - there are all types of people that play the game. I'm considered a casual myself. But there are many pure sim guys that prefer not to take the time to call/learn plays, play 12min quarters, don't feel the need to run 30-team Associations, etc. I love playing 12min quarters, call plays, etc. Again, there are all types of people that play this game; I don't see why some feel it needs to be exclusive to what's likely the game's smallest demographic.

Servers issues go back to 2K13, they don't seem to get it.

GTA 5 is something out of this world, don't use that as an example. Rockstar even said that there will be issues, that the first couple of weeks will be glitchy/bumpy/disappointing. But they did fix it, so there we go.

2K has had over 2 years and their servers are still inadequate.


And obviously, there are more than just sim and casual players but the focus is indeed on both. Of course there will be all kinds of people in between.

[Ramboooo]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

First off, I don't have the game. But I'm wondering if the main beef is just for those who are hardcore association heads who need full control of everything. If I'm just a dude who wants to take my team and play a franchise mode, that's still possible eh? But now I have some added perks like the owner and GM stuff. Is this just a problem for the Hardcore hardcore association dudes who have to make sure freakin the 14th man on the team is IDENTICAL to the NBA equivalent, etc. Or is this just those who are offended by everything that is online / servers. Or is this just VC overkill?

Basically I'm wondering if this is actually unplayable or just annoying. Cuz there's a difference. If I'm just a regular franchise mode player who doesn't need to recreate every single player or edit every single accessory, would I like this mode? Or is the cost of VC unreasonable? I'm hearing feedback like this mode is unplayable, but there may be some bias there if it is only the hardcore hardcore hardcore association-heads who think this.


Of course it's always about having options options options customization customization customization, and there is a fine line between reasonable VC and being forced to purchase VC to even play the game (save 100's of hours of grinding). So just trying to understand where on the scale this stuff is between annoying ---- unplayable.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

First off, I don't have the game. But I'm wondering if the main beef is just for those who are hardcore association heads who need full control of everything. If I'm just a dude who wants to take my team and play a franchise mode, that's still possible eh? But now I have some added perks like the owner and GM stuff. Is this just a problem for the Hardcore hardcore association dudes who have to make sure freakin the 14th man on the team is IDENTICAL to the NBA equivalent, etc. Or is this just those who are offended by everything that is online / servers. Or is this just VC overkill?

Basically I'm wondering if this is actually unplayable or just annoying. Cuz there's a difference. If I'm just a regular franchise mode player who doesn't need to recreate every single player or edit every single accessory, would I like this mode? Or is the cost of VC unreasonable? I'm hearing feedback like this mode is unplayable, but there may be some bias there if it is only the hardcore hardcore hardcore association-heads who think this.


Of course it's always about having options options options customization customization customization, and there is a fine line between reasonable VC and being forced to purchase VC to even play the game (save 100's of hours of grinding). So just trying to understand where on the scale this stuff is between annoying ---- unplayable.

To be honest with you it seems to me like a money grab. Heres why I say that:

VC cannot be gained from simming. Parts of the mode are inaccessible if you do not purchase level ups through vc..such as change in ticket prices, merchandise, or even ability to fire coaches and scouts. You gain about 500 VC for wins while playing and about 400 for losses while playing. A level 3 upgrade is about 1000 VC. So to get to a level 3 on any portion will cost 500+700+1000=or 2200 VC. There are 10 levels to each attribute and price goes up for each level. Then to purchase stadium upgrades etc...cost VC.

If the mode was designed to feel as if you have to work to gain the abilities to do those things, as some have stated, then it makes absolutely no sense to have those level ups and facility upgrades move over to a completely new mygm after purchased in a different one. If I have a fully leveled up GM in one association, I can start a new one, from scratch day 1 fully leveled.

[franzis]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

If the mode was designed to feel as if you have to work to gain the abilities to do those things, as some have stated, then it makes absolutely no sense to have those level ups and facility upgrades move over to a completely new mygm after purchased in a different one. If I have a fully leveled up GM in one association, I can start a new one, from scratch day 1 fully leveled.

That's because 2k devs firmly believe in Reincarnation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

[EMan77]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

As horrible as this sounds, VC is the future of this franchise.

It may not happen next year, but eventually everything will come at a cost of VC. You want to buy a headband for your MyPlayer? It will cost VC. New pair of shoes? VC. Increase your skills? VC for each individual increase. Fix your team rotation? VC. You wanna put on all the new clothing/equipment you just bought for yourself? More VC.

If any of the modes were to have VC exploits revealed this year, they won't be around next year. Something else will replace them, but the VC will always be there.

This series will be all about micro-transactions in the future and less about actual decent basketball play or remotely competent roster work (in particular rosters have been a failing of 2K for years now).

Someone likened this game to FarmVille or any of those lousy cash grab games on iOS/Facebook. That person was entirely correct in that statement. That is the future and it is as sad as it sounds.

EA being the only possible alternative doesn't improve my outlook on sports games and their future either. We, as gamers, are screwed because of these companies and their abilities to buy sports licenses and exclusivity outright. We suffer. Companies do not. Their greed will only get worse and worse as time goes on.

[Saturnis]

Re: Why I'm Pissed At 2K Sports

You guys think that 2k would abandon the VC ship after enough backlash? Or is it a lost cause?

it has to be enough to the point where no one buys VC, thats the only way. I wouldn't mind VC if the game didn't cost $60. If it was a free to play game i would have no problems with the VC system but its not free to play and the VC system is flawed. its like working at mcdonalds trying to afford a Ferrari; i think that analogy sums up how difficult it is to play by the book and earn enough VC to get what you want.

This is why i fully support glitching that VC and see nothing wrong with it because 2k doesn't offer enough anyway to begin with.

Wow. Just finished my first season of MyGM and it's bad enough that they deduct trust points if you refuse to pay VC to fulfill staff requests, but they made training camps in the off-season cost VC? Why don't we earn VC for the same stuff we got reward points for in current gen?

2K's greed seriously knows no bounds. I hope Live comes back strong next year so they can't get away with this **** so easily. I know Live isn't much better, but hopefully competition will make them scale back this nonsense. I wasn't aware this was a ****ing iPhone app that requires you to pay to play. I thought that I'd already paid $60 to get a full game, yet somehow they've put stuff that was free last year behind what is basically a paywall.

wow i didn't even know MyGM does that nonsense. further proves my point.

yup, all the free stuff now has a price tag and so will everything in due time. im sure it will cost VC to create a player, play a mycareer game, and hell even finding a online match will cost VC soon, watch.

Why? My guess is that VC is there as another way to generate additional revenue. I know some of you only choose to look at this game in a bubble or vacuum, but practically every game is doing the same thing on some level. Should VC permeate every aspect of the offline game? Of course not. But by most accounts 2K released the most realistic-playing current gen game then a few months released what most say is easily the best playing basketball game ever with their first next gen effort. It's a launch game. It's a first year effort. Everything doesn't have to be doom and gloom when they're just getting started.

not every game is doing that nonsense so please dont sit there justifying this sh*t. Notice how everyone's post is, "yea it does this and that sure but its the most amazing looking realistic, blah blah blah" seriously thats the justification around here and its sickening. 2K can do whatever they want and sell broken games because it looks good. great argument there.

Should server performance be better? Of course. But the game just released less than a week ago - I'd think they'd deserve *some* consideration especially given they're attempting something new. Any gamer should know it's rare for a game with ambitious online features to work perfectly out of the box.

The biggest game of the year (Grand Theft Auto V) had massive online problems when it launched that took a while to resolve. Most online-specific games like Battlefield or Call of Duty frequently have online issues at launch. I'd prefer 2K didn't bind some of the game's features to online functionality myself. But the game's been out less than a week and it's not like these type issues aren't experienced by other games. It doesn't need to be declared a failure so quickly imo.

I understand server problems won't be top notch on day one out of the box, but what you seem to forget is 2k SERVERS ARE NEVER TOP NOTCH OUT OF THE BOX, DAY 1, or even a year later. 2k13 would FREEZE your system and make you shut your console off. this never stopped even in june after i traded in the game. Playing a crew game this year is even more hell with people lagging out and locker room people not showing up, eventually having to sign in and out just to make the damn thing work. Will this be fixed???? guarantee you it WILL NOT. just like 2k13 was never fixed.

GTA cleaned up their act a week later, and they sold in the billions(correct me if im wrong) which is FAR MORE than players playing on 2k. GTA was able to remedy this problem in a short time and it works pretty damn good for the amount of people playing on it. 2k on the other hand does not.

so bad game to bring up because you further prove my point.

I disagree that there are two distinct kind of players - there are all types of people that play the game. I'm considered a casual myself. But there are many pure sim guys that prefer not to take the time to call/learn plays, play 12min quarters, don't feel the need to run 30-team Associations, etc. I love playing 12min quarters, call plays, etc. Again, there are all types of people that play this game; I don't see why some feel it needs to be exclusive to what's likely the game's smallest demographic.

And of course the inevitable hyperbole, bringing up NBA Jam and inferring the game is no longer realistic. Listen, knock yourselves out complaining that it's an arcade game now. I'm going to enjoy playing.

its not just about, "call/learn plays, play 12min quarters, don't feel the need to run 30-team Associations, etc" you're missing the whole point that has been posted over and over again.

Well VC isn't really money. It's more like XP you earn from playing the game. 2K kind of shot themselves in the foot by calling it Virtual Currency, so it is forever associated with and thought of as costing real money, when in fact a fair amount is made just by playing the game.

It's a bad look that makes them look more like Farmville. Games like BF4 also have paid early unlocks but it doesn't get nearly the same backlash. Meanwhile, players recoil at seeing the shiny gold coins even though they're paying the equivalent of XP that they got playing for free, when real P2W and Farmville type games actually cost you currency to play sometimes.

They should have called it 2K Points or Baller Creds something innocuous.

we know its not real currency, the point is you would, and sometimes are forced to, spend real currency because the game doesn't give you nearly enough to get the things you want.

so please explain how playing the game gives you a fair amount, have you played this game? doesn't seem like it. i was almost halfway into mycareer(30 or so games) and total VC up to that point was 15k VC. thats about an arm sleeve and some nikes, sundown. ARM SLEEVE AND NIKES. thats a decent amount to you? and it took me 4 days to get there by putting more than adequate enough time towards it.

you all justifying this is really ridiculous.