Offensive rebounding

[Colts18]

Re: Offensive rebounding

And yet, actually reading parts of this thread would have granted the realization that the discussion has long moved onto the issue of put back success and lack of kick outs.

Oh I know and I agree that THAT is THEEEEEE real issue. But people here and on Tweet are still complaining that OREBS is an issue

[Da_Czar]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Hey Czar, I agree with Mr. 24th letter.

It seems way too often the CPU will put up a quick putback, that falls way to frequently for my taste. It doesnt seem to matter who it is offensively or who is defending the putback. Also - they hardly, if ever, kick out and reset.

Thats a sep issue from the fact they are getting the board - which to me seems fair most of the time, at least on All Star.

Yea, see that falls under a whole different category as far as who needs to look at it and what needs to be done to attempt to cut it back.

It was clear after the thread got going, that that was a sizable issue outside of
the OREB's themselves.

[Vni]

Re: Offensive rebounding

True. If the success rate of the CPU's putbacks were normals and if the cpu kicked the ball out to reset aswell especially when surrounded in the paint nobody might have complained about the off rebounds.

At first you think : Wow theses off rebounds are killing me but then you realise it's the putbacks and the off rebounds numbers are usually normal.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Offensive rebounding

True. If the success rate of the CPU's putbacks were normals and if the cpu kicked the ball out to reset aswell especially when surrounded in the paint nobody might have complained about the off rebounds.

At first you think : Wow theses off rebounds are killing me but then you realise it's the putbacks and the off rebounds numbers are usually normal.

Exactly. Playing 2K11 since release OR was an an area I am so happy was addressed. The put backs though were automatic....until I followed wolfs lead on his simple slider adjustments and block out assistance. Now it plays perfect for me.

[Sundown]

Offensive rebounding

Oh I know and I agree that THAT is THEEEEEE real issue. But people here and on Tweet are still complaining that OREBS is an issue

Those put backs really make one go Nnnngh! Where's the box out?!

Then you check the stats and you actually have as many O boards as the CPU.

Still the lack of box outs that let even some guards sneak in for easy put backs looks ugly and is concerning though.

Yea, see that falls under a whole different category as far as who needs to look at it and what needs to be done to attempt to cut it back.

It was clear after the thread got going, that that was a sizable issue outside of
the OREB's themselves.

I'm just spitballing here, but I still get the sense that boxing out could be better (or that I need to learn how to trigger it better). Since most boards in 2K are near the rim and not long where there is a higher chance of an offensive board as I understand it, 2K's numbers might look okay but may actually indicate too many boards close to the rim.

[Sinner]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I don't usually notice as much as others on here which I guess helps me enjoy the game more, but I understand some are more detailed in what they play/see and that can only help things get better.

This is something that has happened a few times that I've noticed...I didn't think it should happen but I could be wrong.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0n0v2mhyW8s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As you can see Russell shot the ball, MyPlayer, Al Jefferson, Marvin Williams and another guy were all around the ball but only I jumped for it. Nobody blocked out Westbrook and when I jumped my hands touched the ball but of course didn't bring it in, nobody even tried to jump for the ball and it went to him for the easy put back and win.

[antdoggydogg]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I'm glad others have pointed out the user error issue. I completely agree and hope they dont go changing the game from all these previous first week complaints. There is an adjustment period and i realized right away the rebounding in this game is going to be new. And I love it. I play against the Spurs and do fine on the glass, but I played Memphis and they just dont quit fighting for boards. And none of it feels cheap, people are complaining about the way they CPU gets offensive boards but whenever you look at the replay youre usually one half step out of position and thats what leads to the offensive rebound for your opponent. This game is real, so real that you have to take everything into account. My learning curve might've been faster since I'm used to always defending as a weakside defender whether that be sagging off a bad shooter or the weakside big man.

Anyway, sounds like we've moved past the offensive rebounds being the issue, and are focusing on putbacks which we all agree happen under circumstances that don't always make sense. I noticed a few of these and turned down the putback tendency to 45 and haven't seen much if any since then. But I'll be playing more tonight and will always keep an eye out for stuff like that. It definitely helps to turn down close shot tendency too. Cause if they grab the offensive rebound, there are two things that the computer is most likely taking into account, the putback tendency and the tendency to shoot close shots/inside shots. I'm not a programmer but that's just my logical guess. So turning those down might help, although I wouldnt lower inside shots any lower than 50, that seems like youre just making it easier for yourself to play defense.

[aga11ah]

Re: Offensive rebounding

antdoggydogg you are totally missing the point

it's not the fact the CPU is getting so many rebounds... it's just the fact of how fast they do it.. which gives the user no chance to do much about it.

I've always heard Shawn Marion has a super quick second jump in real life... well.. everyone is Shawn Marion on 2k15 lol.. the big guys react super fast and put the ball back up at an absurd speed. that's the issue. wake up

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Yea, see that falls under a whole different category as far as who needs to look at it and what needs to be done to attempt to cut it back.

It was clear after the thread got going, that that was a sizable issue outside of
the OREB's themselves.

Yeah, in User vs AI 5-on-5 Superstar Sim, I'm not seeing a major rebounding issue. In MyCareer it is a nightmare.

Overall problem is that your teammates act poorly(both modes) when the ball goes up. In 5-on-5 when you play great defense, the CPU isn't in position to cheese most of the time, and you can switch to the rebounder as soon as you make the contest, so there is some leeway because you have general control.

This masks the problem, though. AI teammate reaction to the ball is very poor in all situations, and the user is stuck in contest animations for too long on defense, and shot attempt reactions too long on offense.

I realize that the CPU needs the ability to break out faster to prevent the user from having +40 boards, but the user lockout needs to be toned down a bit.

Having the CPU kick the ball back out will help, as there are a few under the basket attempts which will almost certainly go in if they aren't blocked or double teamed. This isn't a problem with bigs, but wing players and small guards can do it.

Last thing: when you press turbo and go to the basket for a rebound, the force field that forces the boxout is HUGE. If there is a way to put in one of the contextual boxout animations, I think that would work as a fix since it would force more randomness in rebound situations.

[ParisB]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Those 5-6 AI offensive rebounds in a 24 min game that turn into automatic scores for the CPU (even by smalls over bugs) hurts, and hurts a lot-- especially if we're not as good on both ends and if we really needed that stop. And the one before that. And the one before that one too.

But as I said before, the O board disparity isn't that bad (but I play with a good rebounding team). It's just HOW they're often gotten with AI not boxing out, and the killer put backs after.

If some of the offensive boards came off long rebounds (where many are supposed to come from), if the close ones weren't as easy to put back in traffic, and if the AI kicked out in response, this aspect of the game would be lovely.

According to a Grantland article I read today (tracking rebounds), it showed graphs and 80% of rebounds stay within 8' of the rim...

[Walt Frazier]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It just didn't seem as blatant being that I would only see 8-10 Oreb's over a 48 minute game. Just didn't stand out. Could be because I am looking at everything else when I play because I am constantly evaluating the AI offense and Defense.

So there were maybe 2-3 a game I give the side-eye to but it wasn't like Dudes on here are saying the AI is getting like 20 oreb's a game etc.

Some good feedback in here on the topic. I will check in with the dudes responsible and see what's up. Thanks to all who contributed.

The put backs are the issue brother...the CPU goes back up EVERY time they grab an ORB. Not only does that distort the points in the paint, but it kills the whole flow of the game. No kick outs, no second chance possessions. Fix put backs and the issue is solved.


Even at "CPU put backs 0" in the sliders...they go back up every time.

[Walt Frazier]

Re: Offensive rebounding

What up Czar...

The bigger issue is the put back frequency and success, not so much the OREBS themselves.

Have you not experienced that either?

This!

Everyone is experiencing it...watch games on youtube and you never see a kick out / it's all put backs. Some people just don't 'realise' it's an issue yet. It's only when you play ten games and realise the CPU never passes out after an ORB that you see it. It needs to be fixed ASAP. Even when tiny point guards grab an ORB they go back up into two 7 footers...when they have their SG and SF wide open for three. There's no "second possession" basketball in the game. It is entirely one and done.

[antdoggydogg]

Re: Offensive rebounding

In the games I've played they arent getting "so many" rebounds, they're all accurate numbers. AND the way they are getting them in my games are nothing I can complain about. Whenever I feel like I got cheated I hit instant replay and can see why I got beat. And sometimes I can tell I've just made a terrible mistake and am about to give up an offensive rebound, like when I accidentally make a bad split second decision to jump at a point guard that just penetrated the lane which leaves my guy open for the Offensive Rebound. That's just the natural risk/reward scenarios that come with the game of basketball. You can't contest every shot and grab every rebound.

Besides, I already said I think we all agree that the number of ill advised putbacks are the issue. Not the actual offensive rebounds. I need to see some actual videos of unrealistic offensive rebounds cause I play on Pro and its totally realistic. On any other mode I can see why it would get stupid because typically the higher the difficulty = the more CPU cheese. Which is why I think difficulty levels should be abolished and that there should just be one base game that we can all adjust sliders for. But that's an entirely different topic which I won't get into here.

[Sundown]

Re: Offensive rebounding

According to a Grantland article I read today (tracking rebounds), it showed graphs and 80% of rebounds stay within 8' of the rim...

Certainly. But that leaves 20% which isn't a small number. Also I don't even know if most 2K boards even reach 8 feet. Most seem to come off at 4 or less, even on long jumpers.

[Walt Frazier]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Vannwolfhawk posted this in the slider thread:

It's frustrating but until they fix it's something. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.


I have been testing this on Pro/Sim/Real FG/FT%

It's works fantastic in getting the CPU to ease off the gas pedal in this area of concern (which IMO is a legit issue at default).

Try it!!!!

Sliders are very responsive on this game...no question they do what they should IMO.

No. They are broken / need to be fixed.


CPU PUT BACK TENDENCY AT 0 = The CPU 'still' puts it back every time.