Offensive rebounding

[Hotobu]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I was going to post My Player stats, but came to the conclusion that it wouldn't make sense seeing as part of the games are simmed. I actually did keep track of how successful their putbacks are though. If I'm not close to the rim the computer hits 87%!! of their putbacks. I didn't keep track of mine, but I know for a fact it ain't that high. Even looking qualitatively at O Rebounding is tough because me controlling one guy is too much of a variable to account for. It feels slightly in the favor of the computer, but it's not really that bad. What's making it disgusting is how easily they score off of those putbacks.

[Walt Frazier]

Re: Offensive rebounding

MAJOR problem noted now that I am playing full games...the CPU does not pass out after getting an ORB.


They go back up every time. This destroys the flow of the game as there's basically no second chance plays as NO ONE kicks out.


Ironically, NBA Live had this exact problem last year.


I don't know if this is just since the update, but I played the Lakers and Sacre, Hill, Boozer etc went back up after EVERY ORB and never kicked out even with me there to block them and Kobe, Young etc unguarded on the 3 point line.


Same thing when I played Phoenix. Their bigs went for put backs EVERY time.


Used Chicago (me) against Golden State and I had Noah and Pau crowd around their rebounders yet David Lee and Bogut went straight back up for the put back every time despite me not even guarding Curry on the perimeter. Lee would even go back up when I had two guys on him and he was facing away from the bucket. Absolutely ridiculous.


I am hoping this is some sort of tweak Da Czar made that has gone badly wrong and just needs to be tweaked again.


Every ORB ending in a contested put back kills the game. There's no second chance plays, kick outs, no resetting the offense and using repeated shot clocks..............just straight back up for a lay up or miss.


Rebounding is badly broken.


Please fix it...

[fhsf]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I mostly play online in online quick rank matches.

[Sundown]

Re: Offensive rebounding

MAJOR problem noted now that I am playing full games...the CPU does not pass out after getting an ORB.


They go back up every time. This destroys the flow of the game as there's basically no second chance plays as NO ONE kicks out.


Ironically, NBA Live had this exact problem last year.


I don't know if this is just since the update, but I played the Lakers and Sacre, Hill, Boozer etc went back up after EVERY ORB and never kicked out even with me there to block them and Kobe, Young etc unguarded on the 3 point line.


Same thing when I played Phoenix. Their bigs went for put backs EVERY time.


Used Chicago (me) against Golden State and I had Noah and Pau crowd around their rebounders yet David Lee and Bogut went straight back up for the put back every time despite me not even guarding Curry on the perimeter. Lee would even go back up when I had two guys on him and he was facing away from the bucket. Absolutely ridiculous.


I am hoping this is some sort of tweak Da Czar made that has gone badly wrong and just needs to be tweaked again.


Every ORB ending in a contested put back kills the game. There's no second chance plays, kick outs, no resetting the offense and using repeated shot clocks..............just straight back up for a lay up or miss.


Rebounding is badly broken.


Please fix it...

The no second chance plays is a REALLY good point. It completely undermines the kick out and reset game, and ignores the MAIN reason giving up offensive rebounds are bad-- that they up the effective FG% per offensive trip -- not that they create auto-put backs.

And as someone else mentioned, a big problem is simply that there are no long rebounds and almost all missed shots bounce off at easy putback ranges and don't result in fast break rebounds. I'm surprised 2k hasn't addressed this. I'm more surprised I've never thought that much of it.

[Sundown]

Offensive rebounding

GSW vs HOU and LAC
User vs AI
Superstar/Sim

So I find that my actual offensive rebounding numbers are fine-- I get as many as the CPU. However the way they occur and the auto-put backs are what's problematic. Though GSW is a top rebounding team so maybe I should be getting more than some teams.

Also the lack of box outs seem worse than the actual offensive numbers, and small guards rebounding and finishing at high percentages adds insult to injury.

[Walt Frazier]

Re: Offensive rebounding

The no second chance plays is a REALLY good point. It completely undermines the kick out and reset game, and ignores the MAIN reason giving up offensive rebounds are bad-- that they up the effective FG% per offensive trip -- not that they create auto-put backs.

And as someone else mentioned, a big problem is simply that there are no long rebounds and almost all missed shots bounce off at easy putback ranges and don't result in fast break rebounds. I'm surprised 2k hasn't addressed this. I'm more surprised I've never thought that much of it.

It changes the entire dynamics of a basketball game.


20 seconds of great D played...Thompson misses...Bogut rebounds in traffic, kicks out...GS re-set...40 plus seconds of D now played, Curry misses....Lee gets the board...kicks out and nails a three ball. Almost a minute of possession / defence. That is why ORB are so important and second chance ball decides most big games.


I just tried again against OKC and Perkins got a longish rebound...I swarmed him...and he still went straight back up.

The CPU coding is broken. It is telling them to put the ball back no matter
the situation or player. Perkins ORB...Durant wide open = Perk is going back up.


Major, major disappointment.


2K has a great record with patches...so, I'll wait and see.


If it is not fixed though, I will be trading the game in. I actually love the game play overall, but ORB broken as badly as this means the game is way, way too predictable. I am actually getting too many easy blocks now as I 'know' the CPU is going back up for the put back regardless. I just move my C over and reject them. Leave everyone unguarded because they are not going to pass.

[Gosens6]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I can't even take this anymore. The way the cpu just puts back up second chance shots and have them go in 98% of the time makes me not even want to play this game. There's no reason kendrick Perkins and reggie Evans should be shooting 10+ times a game, and getting more than 10 points because of how easy cpu second chance points under the basket is.

I don't wanna shelve the game because of this issue, but it's making it damn near unplayable for me. It also inflates the pip numbers to unrealistic numbers. This needs to be looked at and fast

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It changes the entire dynamics of a basketball game.


20 seconds of great D played...Thompson misses...Bogut rebounds in traffic, kicks out...GS re-set...40 plus seconds of D now played, Curry misses....Lee gets the board...kicks out and nails a three ball. Almost a minute of possession / defence. That is why ORB are so important and second chance ball decides most big games.


I just tried again against OKC and Perkins got a longish rebound...I swarmed him...and he still went straight back up.

The CPU coding is broken. It is telling them to put the ball back no matter
the situation or player. Perkins ORB...Durant wide open = Perk is going back up.


Major, major disappointment.


2K has a great record with patches...so, I'll wait and see.


If it is not fixed though, I will be trading the game in. I actually love the game play overall, but ORB broken as badly as this means the game is way, way too predictable. I am actually getting too many easy blocks now as I 'know' the CPU is going back up for the put back regardless. I just move my C over and reject them. Leave everyone unguarded because they are not going to pass.

I can't even take this anymore. The way the cpu just puts back up second chance shots and have them go in 98% of the time makes me not even want to play this game. There's no reason kendrick Perkins and reggie Evans should be shooting 10+ times a game, and getting more than 10 points because of how easy cpu second chance points under the basket is.

I don't wanna shelve the game because of this issue, but it's making it damn near unplayable for me. It also inflates the pip numbers to unrealistic numbers. This needs to be looked at and fast

It's frustrating but until they fix it you can tweak the game. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.

Last night I had 2 games vs CPU with spurs having 5 offensive rebounds in 12 minute game. I was blazers.. Played another versus warriors and they had 7. For the 1st time I could play something besides crash defensive boards as a POE!

It's a fix for now. But yes this needs to be patched or tuned or whatever. It's lack of boxing out IMO on top of all CPU players always going back up right after rebound. I do think input lag offline and online with blocks and rebounding plays a role as well. there is literally a second delay after I hit block, jump, or shot contest. Hard to defend CPU when by the time your guy jumps the cup already shot and either made it or missed and got another board because you are just getting into the air.

[Glenn33]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It's frustrating but until they fix it you can tweak the game. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.



Last night I had 2 games vs CPU with spurs having 5 offensive rebounds in 12 minute game. I was blazers.. Played another versus warriors and they had 7. For the 1st time I could play something besides crash defensive boards as a POE!



It's a fix for now. But yes this needs to be patched or tuned or whatever. It's lack of boxing out IMO on top of all CPU players always going back up right after rebound. I do think input lag offline and online with blocks and rebounding plays a role as well. there is literally a second delay after I hit block, jump, or shot contest. Hard to defend CPU when by the time your guy jumps the cup already shot and either made it or missed and got another board because you are just getting into the air.

I did almost the same thing ( I didn't move the sliders as much as you) but my results were very similar. The only other thing I did was slightly lower the CPU layups slider [using the sim settings]. They make way to many (as compared to the user) and that helped balance things out as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gosens6]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It's frustrating but until they fix it you can tweak the game. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.

Last night I had 2 games vs CPU with spurs having 5 offensive rebounds in 12 minute game. I was blazers.. Played another versus warriors and they had 7. For the 1st time I could play something besides crash defensive boards as a POE!

It's a fix for now. But yes this needs to be patched or tuned or whatever. It's lack of boxing out IMO on top of all CPU players always going back up right after rebound. I do think input lag offline and online with blocks and rebounding plays a role as well. there is literally a second delay after I hit block, jump, or shot contest. Hard to defend CPU when by the time your guy jumps the cup already shot and either made it or missed and got another board because you are just getting into the air.

Thanks for the temporary fix. It's just unbelievable to me that with Czar working on the game play, he thought this was good the way it is.

Even if cpu offensive putbacks, and shot success in the paint are tuned, things would be a lot better. I noticed this on release day and it's still happening now. Guys who have no business taking as many, and making as many shots in the paint are just dominating points wise and it's just so frustrating

[Klayups]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I'm sure he didn't think it was good the way it is, hence the reason why he himself created this thread.

He wanted feedback from the community to justify his coming changes. (i.e how do WE want the game to play, because it was something obviously flawed out of the box)

[swac07]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It's frustrating but until they fix it you can tweak the game. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.

Last night I had 2 games vs CPU with spurs having 5 offensive rebounds in 12 minute game. I was blazers.. Played another versus warriors and they had 7. For the 1st time I could play something besides crash defensive boards as a POE!

It's a fix for now. But yes this needs to be patched or tuned or whatever. It's lack of boxing out IMO on top of all CPU players always going back up right after rebound. I do think input lag offline and online with blocks and rebounding plays a role as well. there is literally a second delay after I hit block, jump, or shot contest. Hard to defend CPU when by the time your guy jumps the cup already shot and either made it or missed and got another board because you are just getting into the air.

Finally a response from someone that used the boxout slider. Thanks for this post vannwolfhawk!! I shall try it at 100 myself now.

[Gosens6]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I'm sure he didn't think it was good the way it is, hence the reason why he himself created this thread.

He wanted feedback from the community to justify his coming changes. (i.e how do WE want the game to play, because it was something obviously flawed out of the box)

He created this thread because of all the feedback he was getting on Twitter and the boards about it. If we as a community said nothing, there would be no fix in the works.

[Coach2K]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Reading through the impressions thread and on twitter I see this popping up.

If it is not about offensive rebounding please do not derail this thread.

What are you seeing and what to you is the issue.

Is it User vs AI, or User vs User ?
Online or Offline ?
Do still experience it when you have better rate defensive rebounders vs weaker rated offensive rebounders ?
Do you experience it when crashing the glass via POE ?
Any video would be greatly appreciate so we can see the context etc.

Most Importantly make sure you feedback is coming from gameplay without custom slider adjustments. Preferably SuperStar SIM. But at least non custom sliders please.

Maybe this has been mentioned but the one thing that I see that I don't like is how my rebounder will leave a man and go into poor rebounding position and give up the offensive rebound.

I've got four pics posted below that show a sequence from a MyTeam game. POE was set to crash defensive glass.

In the first pic, you see my Suns player in the paint keeping in contact with his man before the shot goes up. In the second, you see as the shot goes up, he still is in pretty good position.

In the third picture however, he doesn't block out and moves from good position (on the opposite side of the shot where it's most likely to go IRL) away from his man to the near side.

In the fourth his man, gets inside position and grabs the board.

I routinely see the guys on offense go find a defensive guy to go block out yet on defense, I don't see the same sort of AI IQ on the defensive side to go find a man to block out. I'm guessing because blocking out is user controlled to some degree.

I'm open to the idea that I am doing something wrong but I am not sure why my guy leaves his defensive position to run away from his guy. Maybe I'm moving the stick and that makes him move and not realizing it? Maybe I am not hitting block out soon enough? I am still controlling the guy guarding the shot.

[canucksss]

Re: Offensive rebounding

It's frustrating but until they fix it you can tweak the game. I put box out assistance on 100, user defensive rebound at 65, CPU offensive rebound at 35, and CPU put back tendency at 0.

Thanks for the heads up.