Offensive rebounding

[highzman28]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Just my 2 cents

I currently played about 20-30 games with various teams all on SS/Sim and I don't have a rebounding problem.

If needed I set my POE to crash boards if the other team has better rebounding etc or looks to be attacking ty boards.

When I'm a user controlled player in the paint I box out etc

So with that said I enjoy the game like it is...

[Pr33mo]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Just my 2 cents

I currently played about 20-30 games with various teams all on SS/Sim and I don't have a rebounding problem.

If needed I set my POE to crash boards if the other team has better rebounding etc or looks to be attacking ty boards.

When I'm a user controlled player in the paint I box out etc

So with that said I enjoy the game like it is...

I totally agree. My only fear is that instead of people giving the actually poe and defensive strategies a look and try to make proper adjustments. This year more than any they actually work and change the game for you


Its not enough of us on here saying that it feels authentic to play against Kevin love and box him out and he over powers u for the offensive rebound. But some of us want quick sucess and ask for change and when granted those of us that loved it the way it was gets left in the cold

The first few days im absolutely loving EVERY aspect of the gameplay (even tho I have a loading record), and have been having great games against the CPU as im not an online gamer but I kno my experience will be changed very soon to cater to the "complaints" instead of learning the game and not having instant sucess.


This is a real basketball sim for now let's try to keep it that way and learn how to play the game the way devs intended before we demand change. Change isn't always good!

[Snrubby]

Re: Offensive rebounding

CPU just doesn't miss putbacks. Each time I defend it well in MyCareer, I just get Allowed Man to Score, no Good Shot defense.

[RocketTMac1]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Just remembered one more factor - The Badges System

Last year we only had one tier, this year we have three tiers which has lead to tons of players getting badges. I'll go down the list but I'm sure there are a ton more players with some level of "Tenacious Rebounder" and "Hustle Points" than there were last year.

Hustle Points - Adept at making shots immediately following offensive rebounds near the basket.
GOLD - John Henson, Joakim Noah, Tristan Thompson
SILVER - Ersan Ilyasova, Jabari Parker, Kevin Love, Anderson Varejao
BRONZE - Nerlens Noel, Henry Sims, Larry Sanders, Taj Gibson, Shawn Marion, Shane Edwards

Tenacious Rebounder - Will most often win boxout battles and can more easily knock the ball loose from opposing rebounders.
GOLD - Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao
SILVER - Larry Sanders
BRONZE - Nerlens Noel

This is just four teams in.

It seems very likely to me that this abundance of badges is breaking the game more than ever. The ratings might be balanced but when you give half the bigs in the league these skills/badges it destroys that.

This is obviously a very difficult problem as 2K is obviously very invested in this badge system and also took great lengths to fix their rosters and ratings. Yet their ambitions here are seemingly canceling out their efforts.

Ratings make the game balanced, badges make the game arcadey yet are surely in high demand. I'm not saying they should go away (in fact I happen to like them quite a bit), and it's still early, but this is probably a situation where "more" is not "better".

(I should note that I haven't observed any issues w/ other badges, but in this case it magnifies an existing problem).

[Vni]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Just my 2 cents

I currently played about 20-30 games with various teams all on SS/Sim and I don't have a rebounding problem.

If needed I set my POE to crash boards if the other team has better rebounding etc or looks to be attacking ty boards.

When I'm a user controlled player in the paint I box out etc

So with that said I enjoy the game like it is...

Believe me I did that. I did it in the middle of the 3rd quarter because Drummond was already heating up. I'll see if I see this pattern happen again as I play more. I'am supposed to give up O rebounds to the pistons with the bucks but 10 in the 4th is a lot of offensive rebounds.

[Taer]

Re: Offensive rebounding

For the most part, offensive rebounding is quite good. At times, there are ridiculous sequences but they are very few and far between as compared to earlier 2K's.

An example of a ridiculous sequence: Iggi was driving in but was forced into taking a bad fading shot near the base. The ball hits the rim hard and ricochets out to Klay Thompson at the top of the three point arc. He takes the shot and clanks it off the back. Bogut gets the rebound and attempts a put-back which misses but he recovers gets it a second time and attempts another putback. This second putback misses and the ball hits Bogut in the back and stays caught there until Lee takes it off his back and sinks a third putback attempt.

I did not mind the rebounds - Bogut ended up with a normal amount at the end of the game (9). It just seems weird that they did not kick the ball back out after the 2nd rebound.

[RocketTMac1]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Believe me I did that. I did it in the middle of the 3rd quarter because Drummond was already heating up. I'll see if I see this pattern happen again as I play more. I'am supposed to give up O rebounds to the pistons with the bucks but 10 in the 4th is a lot of offensive rebounds.

I'm also wondering if fatigue rate has something to do with this. As guys who rebound at a steady rate when they are on the court most of the times tire or are foul prone. I've played a good 25 games and guys like Boogie, Drummond, etc have a good 12 rebounds by the end of the 3rd quarter with me focusing on them and don't have but 2 fouls.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Czar I'm sure we have discussed this before.

One of the biggest problem with offensive rebounds pertains to rim physics.

Shots do not miss realistically. Threes don't lead to long rebounds. The reason 3pt cheesing has been so successful over the years isn't just that players were draining unrealistic shots but they weren't being penalized for doing so - in fact they were benefitting from it. Since rebounds don't go long, 3pt spammers don't have to deal with fastbreaks, and they get plenty of high percentage offensive rebounds down low because the defensive breakdowns leading to that 3pt shot likewise destroyed any semblance of box balance. Further, it seems like teams are helpless after ORBs to do anything except give up an uncontested shot (players with the highest ORB ratings also have the highest Standing Dunk ratings).


FWIW it does not seem like the rebound ratings are a problem this year, they were slightly unbalanced in favor of ORBs last season but it seems fair now. I don't know enough about 2K15 to say if athleticism ratings (new or otherwise) are a significant factor, this is just what I observed over 3 games.

Average reb rate by pos Off/Def
PG: 42/42
SG: 44/42
SF: 57/61
PF: 75/78
C: 82/81

Man I have been bringing up the long rebounding issue for at least two years. I have put it on multiple I repeat multiple wishlist/gameplay threads. Most of the rebound ratings are pretty good but almost every single rebound lands in the exact same place perfectly right in from of the rim. Only to be converted for an automatic putback layup for the CPU

• I think the core issue is the actual frequency of where the actual offensive rebound falls, then as you said the success of getting the second shot

• The CPU knows to go right to center of the rim and wait for the ball because 95% of the time it is going to land right there regardless of shot taken.
• There are very few guess wrong scenarios when rebounding in this game. You may see a missed putback dunk attempt but very few if at all guess wrong on the position of the rebound. Every person is programmed to be at a given area for a reason. The good rebounding ones just wait at the front of the rim box out jump.
• Dev's who work on this. Every offense rebound should not fall right in front of the rim, some land outside the lane they clank hard and the position varies. Some land in the lane but further away from the restricted area. Even great rebounders don't guess right all the time on where the ball is going to go.
• This article has old data but is still valid http://www.82games.com/comm13.htm I will highlight some things. The success rate of completing a shot right back up was 50% after getting the rebound. Some of the elite guys were at 60+%. During that season after the initial rebound 20% of all attempts was a jumper 45% attempted a close shot and shot 51%. 27% of the attempts where tip shots and shot 49%. Only 8% were dunk attempts and they shot 88% after the rebound.
• What they need to do is contact the guys that wrote this to get the data to see where shots go. http://www.sloansportsconference.com...Rebounding.pdf Page 3

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Czar I'm sure we have discussed this before.

One of the biggest problem with offensive rebounds pertains to rim physics.

Shots do not miss realistically. Threes don't lead to long rebounds. The reason 3pt cheesing has been so successful over the years isn't just that players were draining unrealistic shots but they weren't being penalized for doing so - in fact they were benefitting from it. Since rebounds don't go long, 3pt spammers don't have to deal with fastbreaks, and they get plenty of high percentage offensive rebounds down low because the defensive breakdowns leading to that 3pt shot likewise destroyed any semblance of box balance. Further, it seems like teams are helpless after ORBs to do anything except give up an uncontested shot (players with the highest ORB ratings also have the highest Standing Dunk ratings).

We discussed this exact point on the show and all agreed it was an issue.

[Vni]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Ratings make the game balanced, badges make the game arcadey yet are surely in high demand. I'm not saying they should go away (in fact I happen to like them quite a bit), and it's still early, but this is probably a situation where "more" is not "better".

Rashidi hits the nail on the head with that post. I hadn't messed too much with stacked teams yet and I did earlier this afternoon. Playing the Cavs made the game feel very different and arcadey all of a sudden.

In the middle of the 3rd quarter I started paying attention to Love as he was grabbing a lot of offensive rebounds and if he wasn't grabbing them he always seemed to be in a better postion than my bigs who where set to crash the defensive boards at this point. So the next three possessions (or close to that) I've stopped and replayed the actions.

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nzipa-17nIo" allowfullscreen="" height="315" width="560" frameborder="0"></iframe>

So at the begining of the first possession I play hands up defense with Hill on Love, and then switch to Lin to contest that shot. You can see Wesley Jonhson on the left just standing there. Meanwhile Love has free access to the paint.

On the second clip Boozer grabs the rebound but once again, Love doesn't get boxed out by my AI controlled teammate.

On the third possession Love is still not boxed out by my teammate and grabs two rebounds. The 2nd one he grabs it in the hands of Hill after he morphed through him.

Looks to me like 2K should have a good look at what badge belongs in the game and what badge doesn't because it is kind of disgusting.

[Baller85]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Offensive rebounding seems to be an issue for me because there are issues with defensive rebounding. I play money games on GamerSaloon and we play HOF sim settings. I was playing as the Bulls vs the Knicks and Dalembert/Stoudemire/Anthony were getting an insane amount of offensive boards against what's supposed to be the best/one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

My guys seem to run away from the ball and get out of position instead of boxing out when the ball goes up. I've experienced that in every game I've played so far, not just the example I gave. Even when I have my defensive POE on crash boards for rebounding I still experience this issue. Guys will slide out of position, won't box out, and give up offensive rebounds. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's pretty frequent considering the guy that used the Knicks had 10 or 11 offensive boards against the Bulls playing 4 minute quarters.

Video evidence:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6756QaXtXNQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As you can see Jimmy Butler doesn't make any effort to box out Anthony and he gets an easy board. Noah missed the board also... and it turned into a 3 point play. You can see I also checked to see if I had crash defensive boards on and I did.

[Hotobu]

Re: Offensive rebounding

First of all I'll say that I've only played My Career. I know it's a different beast, but it's still a game mode. I don't have numbers (and don't see how to see my recent game history when it comes to rebounds), so I'll post back with those. In a case like this people need to post numbers that's the only things that matters here.

Even before posting actual stats I can tell you without QUESTION what a big problem is. Putback%. The CPU is WAY too good here. (I realize the slight hypocrisy of this statement seeing as I haven't posted any numbers yet). I think this is exacerbating whatever problem may or may not be present. (I'll try to keep track of this too). If the other team is going to hit so many of their putbacks then that's still a problem related to offensive rebounding. Rashidi also has a point (and I wonder if a patch can even fix it) that rebounds don't bounce right. With so many rebounds occurring so close to the basket there are a lot of putback opportunities.

[dopeismarcus]

Re: Offensive rebounding

when being boxed out does anyone know how to spin around the defender?

[antdoggydogg]

Re: Offensive rebounding

I'm starting to think this might be a difficulty level issue. The whole point of upping the difficulty is to make the game more challenging right? Thats why the tougher game modes result in "cheesing" by the CPU.

I'm playing on Pro, played against the Spurs 3 times, 48 minute games. I havent had any problems boxing them out, I also play defense with my back line though. So I'm always roaming around using Brook Lopez or Garnett on defender when I played them as the Nets. I always make a point to box them out, its just a habit I've developed in 2k and just a natural habit I have when playing basketball. Its a lost art.

Final offensive rebounding stats from the Spurs (CPU) in 3 games: 8, 6, and 10. Averages out to 8. Spurs averaged 9 rebounds in real life last year. They prefer running back in transition. SPOT ON JOB by 2k.

Final offensive rebounding stats from the Nets (User) in 3 games: 1, 7, and 6. Averages out to 4.6, the game with 1 offensive rebound is an outlier since it was my first game. Obviously I was rusty and had to get the feel for the mechanics. So I averaged 6.5 rebounds in my next 2 games. The Nets in real life averaged 9 rebounds last year.

Both the Nets and the Spurs were at the bottom of the leagues standings in offensive rebounds per game. This is completely accurate to me and I hope 2k doesn't change this. I would actually prefer they fix the changes that occur in the different difficulty levels before changing core gameplay mechanics. Or get rid of difficulty levels and just go with one, because at the end of the day people are increasing the difficulty levels and then changing the sliders to suit their liking for a "sim" experience anyway...

But I do know one thing, having a player that plays a ton of minutes and has that badge that allows them to crash the boards super hard is going to result in a ton of offensive rebounds. I remember this happening against the Bulls last year in 2k14 on 360. Noah, Gibson and Boozer absolutely murdered me on the boards every game. But in the final and 7th game of our playoff series I outrebounded them so you can say I made the adjustment. But prior to that they were routinely averaging 20+ offensive rebounds on me per game. They have a very dominant rebounding front court so this wasnt too unbelievable against my small Nets team, but I could definitely tell that the badges were adding at least 10 extra offensive rebounds to their team per game.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Offensive rebounding

Baller85

I expect that to happen every now and then because that is exactly what happens in real life. Even someone with a 100 box out rating will not box out his man every single possession. But 11 oreb on 4 minute quarters are ridiculous. What off ball defense you had on Melo?

I am wondering what is the interaction of settings on the rebounds now? Basically we may have to play tighter on good rebounders offball even when you don't necessarily feel they are a threat to score.

Say for example you want to sag off a poor shooting big we may not be able to help defend the paint well without giving up say rebounding. I have not tested this but there may be an interaction.