So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

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  • Real2KInsider
    MVP
    • Dec 2003
    • 4656

    #241
    Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

    Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
    Exactly! no one makes this stuff up. When myself or the user i'm playing against can't buy a bucket for almost a whole quarter no matter how much ball movement was involved or the play being run...yadda, yadda, yadda. Even if the game wanted someone to call a time out, i think that should be placed on the user and not the game to determine what you should or shouldn't be doing.

    I would like developer to tell me that there isn't a code to allow for more exciting finishes to games. Iv'e seen way too many come backs, game winners and buzzer beaters to not think so.

    I'll leave this video here for anyone to make their own observations. The video starts right at the end of the 3rd quarter. Mind you that the best player on the Kings team, Demarcus Cousins does not even get a touch. Rudy Gay just dunks on everyone and makes a fade away 3 even though there was ample time for him to square up for the shot.
    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_7Dg3EvITpk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    I will break this down play-by-play

    0:45 - Bass is wide open in paint. Catches pass in paint but it's not clean due to passer's double team. Cousins rotates and blocks the dunk. This play will create defensive momentum.
    44-32

    0:55 - Gay pulls up for uncontested three as the user never locks up. This play will create offensive momentum.
    44-35

    1:15 - Ray McCallum fouls out on a double team.

    1:30 - Turner catches open in the corner, and drives into a triple team. Passes it to Olynyk who takes a wild shot over Cousins, who has now stopped two consecutive plays.

    2:00 - Cousins dribbles it out of bounds trying to navigate the three point line.

    TIMEOUT

    3:10 - Brandan Bass hits standing mid-range shot (84 rating) with space.
    46-35

    3:20 - Bad user defense (let's say due to camera angle) gives Gay a clear path to the hoop where he draws foul. Hits two FTs (yay more offensive momentum)
    46-37

    4:00 - Celtics user hits Olynyk inside with a pass that would have never made it through in real life. Video game animations still king.
    48-37

    4:35 - Kings user tried to force a drive, then took a bad contested jumper with Gay on the kickout with 6 seconds still left on the clock. This was the first play that made me realize this was head to head. Kings user has been playing so clean I thought it was the CPU this whole time.

    TIMEOUT

    4:50 - Double-team cheese while the Celtics stuck in play-call screen.

    5:05 - Bad double off the jump ball gives Zeller a wide open dunk.
    50-37

    5:15 - Gay jump passes out of shot, McLemore bobbles the catch. User JUMPS instead of staying at home. This was not a situation (bobbled pass) where the opponent was looking to pull up, and instead McLemore gets a clear path to the basket for a layup. That is a bad basketball decision leading to opponent gaining some momentum. That McLemore is a so-so shooter (80 S.3PT) and a great finisher should have informed that decision point. Worth noting that Gay gets an assist on this play (more momentum).
    50-39

    5:40 - Bad pass gets intercepted. One reason I personally don't run plays everytime down is you can get caught in the trap of following the play even when the defense has it read completely.

    5:45 - Gay finishes an And-1 dunk on the ensuing fastbreak. This probably has the user pissed off. The factors:
    88 Dunk Rating (20 points higher than the average SF)
    GOLD Posterizer
    SILVER Transition Finisher
    Defended by Evan Turner (who was already playing poorly before this)
    Rudy Gay has been walking cheese since he entered the league and these are exactly the video game plays he has been finishing for years.
    50-42

    6:20 - User is rattled and does not make a decision when his called play doesn't formulate (i.e. gets defended well by the opponent). Ends up swinging the ball to take a jumper with a so-so shooter with the clock running down.

    6:25 - After the rebound the User does not pick up Gay in transition. You can actually see the user run his player into the stands. Gay never gets picked up until it's too late, and Gay throws down a fastbreak dunk.
    50-44

    Let's summarize Gay's 4th quarter now.
    3PT, Layup, Miss, Assist, Dunk, Dunk. He's made 5 good plays in 6 possessions, including two highlight plays.

    6:50 - User is rattled again, ends up posting w/ Evan Turner, realizes too late this isn't a great idea, kicks it cross court to Bradley for a jumper as the clock expires (80 S.Med but probably a rush animation).

    Conversely let's summarize the Celtics offensive quarter right now
    Olynyk: 1-2 FG
    Zeller: 1-1 FG
    Bass: 1-2 FG
    Bradley: 0-1 FG
    Turner: 0-1 FG
    Smart: 1 TO

    Nobody is playing well, and certainly nobody here has the takeover potential of Rudy Gay, both IRL or video game.

    7:00 - Kings get another fastbreak off the missed jumper, McLemore draws a foul.
    50-46

    Worth noting that Isaiah Thomas has been on the bench this entire time and checks in with 40 seconds left in the game.

    7:40 - User hesitates with Thomas. The defense is out of position and he can either pull up or drive, but instead swings it to Bass, who isn't as open as he appears (Landry rotates) and misses another jumper with the clock expiring. The shot clock cheese clearly isn't a thing nowadays. Zeller grabs the ORB but Landry pokes it away (though difficult to see with all the bodies in the way).

    7:55 - Gay is open and pulls for a three. The fade is because he was moving when he caught it and hit the shot button. The shot goes in because he's on fire (and 82 M.3PT). Sure, he might have had time to set w/o the defense rotating, but I'm not sure why it would matter, this just sounds like salt.
    50-49

    8:05 - Intentional foul x2. User hits two FTs w/ Bradley (79 rating, Slightly Early releases)
    52-49

    TIMEOUT

    9:05 - Are you kidding me. HOW COULD YOU LEAVE HIM THAT OPEN!
    52-52


    9:30 - User hits the luck chuck of the century at the buzzer, then heads to OS to complain about the game.
    54-52

    You played this quarter very poorly and did not deserve to win this game.

    Momentum was on the opponent's side because he flat-out played you from a basketball and stick standpoint.

    You gave him clear paths to the basket and multiple wide open threes with subpar defense. He defended you well on many possessions, and you also made it easy for him with indecisiveness and forced turnovers. You took many jumpers late in the clock and you only forced that upon him once the entire quarter.

    You gift-wrapped you opponent's momentum, silver platter included, and he made you work for everything. All I saw was a player who should have gotten waxed by 10 in the quarter, regardless of whether it was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

    TLDR: Gay goes nova due to poor User play, then blames the game.

    If this is scathing and you're mad, good. Instead of uploading the video as an example of "woe is me 2K RAGGEEEEEE" you should instead re-watch it as a scouting video of how/where you messed up, and analyze what you could have done differently at various decision points. That, is after-all, what NBA players and teams do (not to mention any professional level gamer, which is why competitive games like Starcraft, League of Legends, Street Fighter, etc have the option to save replays).
    NBA 2K25 Roster: Real 2K Rosters - Modern Era
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    Comment

    • ForeverVersatile
      Pro
      • Jan 2011
      • 3498

      #242
      Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

      @Beluba Thanks for that explanation of badges and how they affect the game. It's really frustrating seeing a terrible user get the benefits of them.

      One question though, why does it seem like the bobbled passes, rebounds and other errors happen more often while you are having your lead cut down or the start of a run. It feels very manufactured. What makes this happen?

      Also if you can answer this, is there something in game code that seems to make games end more interesting or produce outcomes like buzzer beaters.
      There just a lot of situations where something is pulling a string and not necessarily user skill.
      PSN: ForeverVersatile
      Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

      Comment

      • Real2KInsider
        MVP
        • Dec 2003
        • 4656

        #243
        Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

        Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
        @Beluba Thanks for that explanation of badges and how they affect the game. It's really frustrating seeing a terrible user get the benefits of them.
        Ironic post is ironic.

        There just a lot of situations where something is pulling a string and not necessarily user skill.
        Watch your video please.

        (And no I'm not trying to be a dick).
        Last edited by Real2KInsider; 03-29-2015, 11:06 AM.
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        http://youtube.com/real2krosters

        Comment

        • Beluba
          Gameplay Director, NBA2k
          • Jul 2002
          • 1389

          #244
          Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

          Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
          @Beluba Thanks for that explanation of badges and how they affect the game. It's really frustrating seeing a terrible user get the benefits of them.

          One question though, why does it seem like the bobbled passes, rebounds and other errors happen more often while you are having your lead cut down or the start of a run. It feels very manufactured. What makes this happen?

          Also if you can answer this, is there something in game code that seems to make games end more interesting or produce outcomes like buzzer beaters.
          There just a lot of situations where something is pulling a string and not necessarily user skill.

          My only explanation for why you'd see an increase in errors by your players is maybe they are getting cold, resulting in a drop in their attributes, leading to more turnovers. If you're talking about straight up bugs like obvious rebounds not getting caught or wide open passes sailing out of bounds... that's just bad luck.

          There is zero code that encourages games to be close or buzzer beater scenarios. These situations, as well as any other run in the game, is just the game playing out naturally with the ebbs and flows of a real basketball game. It's art imitating life. Now I haven't seen you play but there's also the user factor. I'm sure everybody has certain tendencies when they play the game... For example I tend to lose my concentration mid way through the 3rd quarter. So try to be aware of that and you might see a trend in your games that you can change to prevent blowing leads.


          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • ForeverVersatile
            Pro
            • Jan 2011
            • 3498

            #245
            Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

            Originally posted by Rashidi

            I will break this down play-by-play

            0:45 - Bass is wide open in paint. Catches pass in paint but it's not clean due to passer's double team. Cousins rotates and blocks the dunk. This play will create defensive momentum.
            44-32

            0:55 - Gay pulls up for uncontested three as the user never locks up. This play will create offensive momentum.
            44-35

            1:15 - Ray McCallum fouls out on a double team.

            1:30 - Turner catches open in the corner, and drives into a triple team. Passes it to Olynyk who takes a wild shot over Cousins, who has now stopped two consecutive plays.

            2:00 - Cousins dribbles it out of bounds trying to navigate the three point line.

            TIMEOUT

            3:10 - Brandan Bass hits standing mid-range shot (84 rating) with space.
            46-35

            3:20 - Bad user defense (let's say due to camera angle) gives Gay a clear path to the hoop where he draws foul. Hits two FTs (yay more offensive momentum)
            46-37

            4:00 - Celtics user hits Olynyk inside with a pass that would have never made it through in real life. Video game animations still king.
            48-37

            4:35 - Kings user tried to force a drive, then took a bad contested jumper with Gay on the kickout with 6 seconds still left on the clock. This was the first play that made me realize this was head to head. Kings user has been playing so clean I thought it was the CPU this whole time.

            TIMEOUT

            4:50 - Double-team cheese while the Celtics stuck in play-call screen.

            5:05 - Bad double off the jump ball gives Zeller a wide open dunk.
            50-37

            5:15 - Gay jump passes out of shot, McLemore bobbles the catch. User JUMPS instead of staying at home. This was not a situation (bobbled pass) where the opponent was looking to pull up, and instead McLemore gets a clear path to the basket for a layup. That is a bad basketball decision leading to opponent gaining some momentum. That McLemore is a so-so shooter (80 S.3PT) and a great finisher should have informed that decision point. Worth noting that Gay gets an assist on this play (more momentum).
            50-39

            5:40 - Bad pass gets intercepted. One reason I personally don't run plays everytime down is you can get caught in the trap of following the play even when the defense has it read completely.

            5:45 - Gay finishes an And-1 dunk on the ensuing fastbreak. This probably has the user pissed off. The factors:
            88 Dunk Rating (20 points higher than the average SF)
            GOLD Posterizer
            SILVER Transition Finisher
            Defended by Evan Turner (who was already playing poorly before this)
            Rudy Gay has been walking cheese since he entered the league and these are exactly the video game plays he has been finishing for years.
            50-42

            6:20 - User is rattled and does not make a decision when his called play doesn't formulate (i.e. gets defended well by the opponent). Ends up swinging the ball to take a jumper with a so-so shooter with the clock running down.

            6:25 - After the rebound the User does not pick up Gay in transition. You can actually see the user run his player into the stands. Gay never gets picked up until it's too late, and Gay throws down a fastbreak dunk.
            50-44

            Let's summarize Gay's 4th quarter now.
            3PT, Layup, Miss, Assist, Dunk, Dunk. He's made 5 good plays in 6 possessions, including two highlight plays.

            6:50 - User is rattled again, ends up posting w/ Evan Turner, realizes too late this isn't a great idea, kicks it cross court to Bradley for a jumper as the clock expires (80 S.Med but probably a rush animation).

            Conversely let's summarize the Celtics offensive quarter right now
            Olynyk: 1-2 FG
            Zeller: 1-1 FG
            Bass: 1-2 FG
            Bradley: 0-1 FG
            Turner: 0-1 FG
            Smart: 1 TO

            Nobody is playing well, and certainly nobody here has the takeover potential of Rudy Gay, both IRL or video game.

            7:00 - Kings get another fastbreak off the missed jumper, McLemore draws a foul.
            50-46

            Worth noting that Isaiah Thomas has been on the bench this entire time and checks in with 40 seconds left in the game.

            7:40 - User hesitates with Thomas. The defense is out of position and he can either pull up or drive, but instead swings it to Bass, who isn't as open as he appears (Landry rotates) and misses another jumper with the clock expiring. The shot clock cheese clearly isn't a thing nowadays. Zeller grabs the ORB but Landry pokes it away (though difficult to see with all the bodies in the way).

            7:55 - Gay is open and pulls for a three. The fade is because he was moving when he caught it and hit the shot button. The shot goes in because he's on fire (and 82 M.3PT). Sure, he might have had time to set w/o the defense rotating, but I'm not sure why it would matter, this just sounds like salt.
            50-49

            8:05 - Intentional foul x2. User hits two FTs w/ Bradley (79 rating, Slightly Early releases)
            52-49

            TIMEOUT

            9:05 - Are you kidding me. HOW COULD YOU LEAVE HIM THAT OPEN!
            52-52


            9:30 - User hits the luck chuck of the century at the buzzer, then heads to OS to complain about the game.
            54-52

            You played this quarter very poorly and did not deserve to win this game.

            Momentum was on the opponent's side because he flat-out played you from a basketball and stick standpoint.

            You gave him clear paths to the basket and multiple wide open threes with subpar defense. He defended you well on many possessions, and you also made it easy for him with indecisiveness and forced turnovers. You took many jumpers late in the clock and you only forced that upon him once the entire quarter.

            You gift-wrapped you opponent's momentum, silver platter included, and he made you work for everything. All I saw was a player who should have gotten waxed by 10 in the quarter, regardless of whether it was the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

            TLDR: Gay goes nova due to poor User play, then blames the game.

            If this is scathing and you're mad, good. Instead of uploading the video as an example of "woe is me 2K RAGGEEEEEE" you should instead re-watch it as a scouting video of how/where you messed up, and analyze what you could have done differently at various decision points. That, is after-all, what NBA players and teams do (not to mention any professional level gamer, which is why competitive games like Starcraft, League of Legends, Street Fighter, etc have the option to save replays).
            Poor defense isn't getting dunked on twice while contesting. If I had got an animation to play you wouldn't have said that.

            The first 3 he made is because he did the old left, right shoot which I couldn't get close enough to contest because I was stuck.

            Just because the player was hot doesn't mean they should make terrible fade away 3's. In real life Rudy Gay wouldn't have attempted that wide open. Even if the game made him shoot that, a bad shot is a bad shot.
            Last edited by ForeverVersatile; 03-29-2015, 11:33 AM.
            PSN: ForeverVersatile
            Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

            Comment

            • Millennium
              Franchise Streamer
              • Aug 2002
              • 9889

              #246
              Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

              I want to stop in to this thread and make sure everyone understands to continue to respect each other. The devs are here trying to help, and none of them are lying when they speak.

              Do not walk the line of attacking them. Keep things constructive.
              Franchise > All Y'all

              My Twitter
              My Twitch Channel!

              Comment

              • TheBallGuru
                Rookie
                • Mar 2015
                • 222

                #247
                Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
                Poor defense isn't getting dunked on twice while contesting. If I had got an animation to play you wouldn't have said that.

                The first 3 he made is because he did the old left, right shoot which I couldn't get close enough to contest because I was stuck.

                Just because the player was hot doesn't mean they should make terrible fade away 3's. In real life Rudy Gay wouldn't have attempted that wide open. Even if the game made him shoot that, a bad shot is a bad shot.

                After watching that video and reading Rashidi, I 1000% agree with him. Not trying to be mean but your stick skills are weak and so is your ball iq if you think you outplayed him there or didn't get killed that quarter. It could've been worse he should've won and he could've won that quarter by 15-20

                Comment

                • zcxfgzs
                  Just started!
                  • Mar 2015
                  • 4

                  #248
                  Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                  basketball is a game of runs. i enjoy the fact that no lead is comfortable, as is so in real life.

                  Comment

                  • ForeverVersatile
                    Pro
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 3498

                    #249
                    Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                    Originally posted by TheBallGuru
                    After watching that video and reading Rashidi, I 1000% agree with him. Not trying to be mean but your stick skills are weak and so is your ball iq if you think you outplayed him there or didn't get killed that quarter. It could've been worse he should've won and he could've won that quarter by 15-20
                    Then why did I win and not lose like you said I should've. Yes this was not the best game I've played. Why was I up to begin with though. Oh yeah because my stick skill are weak because missed some open jumpers and tried to play conservative with a team I hardly ever use.

                    ForeverVersatile is my psn username if you want to see my skills. I got plenty of videos showing stick skill on youtube.

                    I'm not mad but calling me weak can be proven wrong especially if your aren't better and that goes for anyone.

                    @Rashdi have you even played any credible users in this game? Your a cheese head who does rosters. You only know numbers.
                    PSN: ForeverVersatile
                    Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

                    Comment

                    • mpac
                      Pro
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 656

                      #250
                      Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                      Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
                      Then why did I win and not lose like you said I should've. Yes this was not the best game I've played. Why was I up to begin with though. Oh yeah because my stick skill are weak because missed some open jumpers and tried to play conservative with a team I hardly ever use.

                      ForeverVersatile is my psn username if you want to see my skills. I got plenty of videos showing stick skill on youtube.

                      I'm not mad but calling me weak can be proven wrong especially if your aren't better and that goes for anyone.

                      @Rashdi have you even played any credible users in this game? Your a cheese head who does rosters. You only know numbers.
                      They are just trying to help you with your game and provide explanation on the title of the thread to prove otherwise. If youre so good, then that's cool. But you dont have to be rude and defensive to justify your skills

                      Comment

                      • TheBallGuru
                        Rookie
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 222

                        #251
                        Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                        Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
                        Then why did I win and not lose like you said I should've. Yes this was not the best game I've played. Why was I up to begin with though. Oh yeah because my stick skill are weak because missed some open jumpers and tried to play conservative with a team I hardly ever use.

                        ForeverVersatile is my psn username if you want to see my skills. I got plenty of videos showing stick skill on youtube.

                        I'm not mad but calling me weak can be proven wrong especially if your aren't better and that goes for anyone.

                        @Rashdi have you even played any credible users in this game? Your a cheese head who does rosters. You only know numbers.

                        Didn't mean in general your skills are weak I mean in that quarter. Good teams in real life have bad quarters and teams go on big runs. This is what happened to you, he out played you and so the score showed it. Just like you must've out played him, difference is we can't see that part of the game. Didn't mean to come off wrong but you had a bad quarter...it happens to everyone.

                        Comment

                        • ForeverVersatile
                          Pro
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 3498

                          #252
                          Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                          @Rashdi that wasn't a woe is me post. Like I said I didn't play perfectly nether did that user. The user appeared to do more but really was a cheese head that tried to dunk all game and throw Alley Oops until the 4th.

                          There are things clearly wrong with the game and isn't always a perfect example of basketball. Don't act like users have everything to do with what goes wrong in the game.

                          Better physics, better player movement, fouls actually being called are all things that could have helped since you wanna bring up the shoulda coulda wouldas.
                          Last edited by ForeverVersatile; 03-29-2015, 03:33 PM.
                          PSN: ForeverVersatile
                          Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

                          Comment

                          • LorenzoDC
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 1857

                            #253
                            Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                            Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
                            Then why did I win and not lose like you said I should've. Yes this was not the best game I've played. Why was I up to begin with though. Oh yeah because my stick skill are weak because missed some open jumpers and tried to play conservative with a team I hardly ever use.

                            ForeverVersatile is my psn username if you want to see my skills. I got plenty of videos showing stick skill on youtube.

                            I'm not mad but calling me weak can be proven wrong especially if your aren't better and that goes for anyone.

                            @Rashdi have you even played any credible users in this game? Your a cheese head who does rosters. You only know numbers.
                            I have some very specific questions: what defensive settings did you put on Gay during the quarter? Did you leave all of that to "auto?"

                            Even if you let Gay get all that momentum throughout the quarter, on that last inbounds play, your AI teammate sagged off him at the 3 pt line when they needed a 3 to tie and you were playing on ball above the key.

                            If you had set your team to deny Gay the ball coming on the inbound, he would have been tight on him to interfere with the pass, assuming you wanted to stay on ball with your defense. Then if you switched on to Gay with the ball, you're already in position to contest any shot. You could also have set your team to auto double Gay on that last play.

                            It's clear from the video you didn't do any of those things.

                            Do you ever use defensive settings? What were your POE's for defense during the quarter? When you were getting torched in transition, did you limit transition?

                            Your video is not anything like evidence of a comeback code or any such thing. It's actually the opposite.

                            Comment

                            • ForeverVersatile
                              Pro
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 3498

                              #254
                              Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                              Originally posted by mpac
                              They are just trying to help you with your game and provide explanation on the title of the thread to prove otherwise. If youre so good, then that's cool. But you dont have to be rude and defensive to justify your skills
                              Buddy I'm not being rude but if you want to say someone sucks from a small sample expect some reaction.

                              If anyone is being rude it's @Rashdi. Everyone knows this guy is obnoxious.
                              PSN: ForeverVersatile
                              Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

                              Comment

                              • ForeverVersatile
                                Pro
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 3498

                                #255
                                Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

                                Originally posted by LorenzoDC
                                I have some very specific questions: what defensive settings did you put on Gay during the quarter? Did you leave all of that to "auto?"

                                Even if you let Gay get all that momentum throughout the quarter, on that last inbounds play, your AI teammate sagged off him at the 3 pt line when they needed a 3 to tie and you were playing on ball above the key.

                                If you had set your team to deny Gay the ball coming on the inbound, he would have been tight on him to interfere with the pass, assuming you wanted to stay on ball with your defense. Then if you switched on to Gay with the ball, you're already in position to contest any shot. You could also have set your team to auto double Gay on that last play.

                                It's clear from the video you didn't do any of those things.

                                Do you ever use defensive settings? What were your POE's for defense during the quarter? When you were getting torched in transition, did you limit transition?

                                Your video is not anything like evidence of a comeback code or any such thing. It's actually the opposite.
                                I didn't want to put emphasis on stopping the outside shot because that's not what his game plain was through 3 quaters. He literally tried to dunk all game.
                                PSN: ForeverVersatile
                                Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

                                Comment

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