There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

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  • Sundown
    MVP
    • Oct 2010
    • 3270

    #106
    Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

    Also, I actually DON'T like that blow-by animation some are showing as how to beat the CPU, where the defender just puts their hands up and gives up. Especially not for guards.

    If a player is blown by, they should at least attempt to recover and pursue, not just throw their hands up and watch an open dunk.

    It looks especially silly in 1 vs 1, but still makes little sense in 5 vs 5.

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #107
      Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

      Lot of selective reading going on here.

      Thing is, most folk have acknowledged that there is warping/sliding(not sure where the "denial" is when literally no one in here is pretending that it doesn't exist)but in the meantime since nothing is going to be done about it right away(especially since the game ain't even a week old)there have been people offering tips/advice/temporary band-aids to curb it all until 2K releases an actual fix to the point where WE don't have to worry about fixing it ourselves. 24 has been doing this throughout the forum as far trying to help folks out and people are coming at him as if HE'S doing something wrong lol.

      I'm sure 2K knows about this by now. Hell, one of the devs(might've been Czar but I could be wrong)basically told us well before the game came out that there would be some warping/sliding in the game and nobody made a fuss about it then and I guarantee that we've seen way worse than this in previous games in the series.
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • The 24th Letter
        ERA
        • Oct 2007
        • 39373

        #108
        Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

        Originally posted by Sundown
        There are folks putting fingers in their ears on both sides of the issue.

        I mean the title of this very thread IS essentially fingers in ears and full on denial of very clear evidence.

        Then it attempts to prove the nonexistence of CPU defensive issues simply by posting some videos where the CPU can be beat. Of course it can. But that is not AT ALL the same as saying there is nothing wrong with the CPU-- not to mention 1 vs 1 blacktop might play differently from 5 vs 5 (which in my limited experience seems like it does).

        It's like claiming that there isn't any crime or disease in a certain country by showing a few pictures of healthy, law-abiding people.


        Now perhaps the sliding is rare. Perhaps it doesn't affect people as much as is made out. Perhaps there are workarounds. Perhaps such a fix cannot be easily made without compromising something else fundamental to CPU defense (I'm somewhat dubious). Maybe the fix isn't worth it. We can and should have a nuanced, technical discussion about all that.

        But full on denial based on what seems to be fear that a fix might break the current gameplay balance pretty much kills truthful discussion and pursuit of better sim play-- because warping defenders and magical barriers preventing movement through an open lane is not sim in any universe.

        I showed 5 on 5 in all my videos.

        My videos were in direct response to posts about how "x player can't beat x player off the dribble" Somehow the "clear video evidence" only works one way in these situations though...

        It's becoming a circular argument at this point...

        Most of the level headed posters here agree that there are issues with CPU warping and sliding and want realistic solutions....I said as much in the post you quoted...

        Some of us have found solutions...I simply don't see a lot of warping on my end at this point (and that could be because I'm not pausing at every opportunity, or that I don't feel the effects of it enough to rage) and don't have a lot of issues winning the appropriate matchup's. I'll continue sharing those too...just surprised more aren't interested in trying them.

        All good though. I'm enjoying the hell out of the game and honestly rather do that then back and forth on this anymore. Hopefully the community speaks loud enough and keeps 2k from patching everything challenging out of the game...


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment

        • Kese86
          Rookie
          • Aug 2012
          • 158

          #109
          Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

          The issue, at least to me, is not the frequency of the CPU cheese defensive tactics, but the fact they exist in the game period. If the game can't be made without the warping and other things like that in there, then somebody needs to come out and say that. Sliders and lowering difficulty can't remove animations that are programmed into the game.

          Comment

          • The 24th Letter
            ERA
            • Oct 2007
            • 39373

            #110
            Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

            Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
            . 24 has been doing this throughout the forum as far trying to help folks out and people are coming at him as if HE'S doing something wrong lol..

            I'm saying man

            When i see a example I say here you go and this is how I did it. Thought that's what the community was for. All good though...I appreciate all the people reaching out and asking questions....letting me know what worked for them and what didn't. ALL while understanding the game is still flawed.

            I think we need an entire teach me how sub forum TBH....a lot of stuff gets lost in the squabbling...




            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment

            • swac07
              MVP
              • Feb 2007
              • 1842

              #111
              Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
              Lot of selective reading going on here.

              Thing is, most folk have acknowledged that there is warping/sliding(not sure where the "denial" is when literally no one in here is pretending that it doesn't exist)but in the meantime since nothing is going to be done about it right away(especially since the game ain't even a week old)there have been people offering tips/advice/temporary band-aids to curb it all until 2K releases an actual fix to the point where WE don't have to worry about fixing it ourselves. 24 has been doing this throughout the forum as far trying to help folks out and people are coming at him as if HE'S doing something wrong lol.

              I'm sure 2K knows about this by now. Hell, one of the devs(might've been Czar but I could be wrong)basically told us well before the game came out that there would be some warping/sliding in the game and nobody made a fuss about it then and I guarantee that we've seen way worse than this in previous games in the series.
              This^^^[emoji106] [emoji106]

              Sent from my Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator using Tapatalk
              "Wisdom is ALWAYS an overmatch for strength"........The Zen Master

              Comment

              • DmaXmius101
                Banned
                • Sep 2015
                • 53

                #112
                Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                [QUOTE=kobethelegend;2047719967]
                Originally posted by DmaXmius101
                lol at if i played real life basketball. i've played so much real life basketball i cant play at the same level anymore due to knee problems. we're talking street ball and organized. i've played with people my size and much taller i'm 6'2. all of my friends are pretty much 6'2 +. we all have played ball. i had the luxury of playing with and against actual pro street ballers(guys from and 1 that are now with ball up). i've had the luxury of playing with and against ex nba players that was still better than the rest of us lol. i've had the luxury of playing with/against some current nba players. i've played d-1 level guys, d2, guys who've played overseas, etc. i've played in those nike 3 on 3 tournaments which use to be hoop it up and won a couple.

                when i say, i know bumping and all that contact. i'm not making it up.

                I'm telling you. thats not bumping. thats a guy fake sliding over in an animation that never should've occurred.

                if i make my defender go left when i go right. ITS OVER. he's gone. he's beat. there is no recovering from that in a half court setting with nba speed players. now you can be a step behind me and bump into me anyway and foul me(up to the ref to call it). but there is no way in physics you can catch up to me, get in front and play perfect defense. not going to happen in that scenario. thats exactly what was happening in the game.

                now you could poke the ball lose from behind with a nice suicide reach. if i dont lower my dribble. if i'm the type to bring the ball down before i go up for the layup. you may have a split second to strip me or tie the ball up. or if you're super athletic. you could swat it from behind.

                im older, slower, less athletic, hurt, and out of shape. and i get a full step on kawhi lenard. i'm beating him to the basket. what he will do is bump me(might get a foul call) on the side. or strip me, or poke the ball lose or toss my weak layup attempt off the backboard from behind. because he has enough closing speed/length to makeup for me beating him. but he can not slide over in front of me after being completely off balance going the other direction.
                Don't be offended, I actually was agreeing with you, but trying to make a point. don't worry this issue will be fix, so i'm over the topic and moving on. But seriously there's time to penetrate..and there's time move the ball. if your having problems with morphing defenders and blowing by the cpu, maybe they are protecting the paint and penetration is Limited. That's how some of us uses imagination and change game plan and execute plays.

                That's why it doesn't really make a difference to me because I can adapt to the morphing. Its nothing compare to the zig zag cheese lol.

                Comment

                • loadedlux
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2014
                  • 48

                  #113
                  Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                  I posted this in the how to get past cpu thread few hours ago but no answer so gonna ask again here (sorry i can be impatient lol)

                  I have an issue where when i get past a cpu i do some stutter step dribble after i get past the cpu and it gives them i chance to come back. It must be something im doing with the left stick that is causing this but idk, its happening pretty much every time i get by. Here is a clip:

                  Comment

                  • ProfessaPackMan
                    Bamma
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 63852

                    #114
                    Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                    Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                    I'm saying man

                    When i see a example I say here you go and this is how I did it. Thought that's what the community was for. All good though...I appreciate all the people reaching out and asking questions....letting me know what worked for them and what didn't. ALL while understanding the game is still flawed.

                    I think we need an entire teach me how sub forum TBH....a lot of stuff gets lost in the squabbling...




                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Need to go ahead and get some games in with you man. I'm sure I'll get humbled Iron Shiek style by you but at least I can learn and take notes from your game, especially since I haven't played 2K regularly in years, lol.
                    #RespectTheCulture

                    Comment

                    • Sundown
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 3270

                      #115
                      Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                      Originally posted by Scrooge
                      Starting to see this is pretty much an excercise in futility to discuss this on this forum, y'all love 2k too much to look at it objectively.

                      I'm not asking them to make it easier to get passed the computer or asking you guys how to, I'm asking that when I do manage to get by him he doesn't warp back in front of me as evidenced in the videos

                      If you can't respect that, then so be it
                      Feel sorry for you
                      Not everyone on OS feels this way. But there seems to be a bit of a reality-distortion-contingent out regarding this issue right now -- primarily out of worry that somehow fixing the issue would somehow weaken defense which some consider an improvement overall this year.

                      We usually get these flare ups each year when the first major issue is found -- there's often a force that may be in the honeymoon period and are just satisfied with what they perceive as an improvement, and therefore want no further refinement that may compromise that.

                      I don't think that's a very progressive way of thinking about game development and simulation design, however.

                      As far as improved defense, there seems to a few glaring issues where AI defense may actually be worse, that's partly covered up by on-ball defense.

                      It's interesting that it feels like we're back to 2K11 and 2K12, where the bumping animations were excessive in 2K11 (essentially a foul every possession) and the sliding was egregious in 2K12-- and there was a split regarding whether the CPU/players should be able to play unrealistic bumping defense in the name of game balance, or whether the CPU should concede partial penetrations and hip rides with varying degrees of success (rather than all-or-nothing blowbys) but that help defense should rotate better to deal with it like in a real NBA defense.

                      I need more time evaluating but it feels like we're back to some of the same issues from 4-5 years ago. But for what it's worth 2K16 doesn't seem as bumpy as 2K11 or as slidey as 2K12. But it feels like there are adjustments that could be made.

                      Comment

                      • BluFu
                        MVP
                        • May 2012
                        • 3596

                        #116
                        Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                        Originally posted by Sundown
                        It's interesting that it feels like we're back to 2K11 and 2K12, where the bumping animations were excessive in 2K11 (essentially a foul every possession) and the sliding was egregious in 2K12-- and there was a split regarding whether the CPU/players should be able to play unrealistic bumping defense in the name of game balance, or whether the CPU should concede partial penetrations and hip rides with varying degrees of success (rather than all-or-nothing blowbys) but that help defense should rotate better to deal with it like in a real NBA defense.

                        I need more time evaluating but it feels like we're back to some of the same issues from 4-5 years ago. But for what it's worth 2K16 doesn't seem as bumpy as 2K11 or as slidey as 2K12. But it feels like there are adjustments that could be made.
                        The biggest difference though is that the defense won't suck you in and make you pick up your dribble. You can retreat and hit them with a counter crossover to beat them (like Earv did in his Kobe vs PG vids).

                        Comment

                        • Sundown
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 3270

                          #117
                          Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                          Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                          I showed 5 on 5 in all my videos.

                          My videos were in direct response to posts about how "x player can't beat x player off the dribble" Somehow the "clear video evidence" only works one way in these situations though...

                          It's becoming a circular argument at this point...

                          Most of the level headed posters here agree that there are issues with CPU warping and sliding and want realistic solutions....I said as much in the post you quoted...

                          Some of us have found solutions...I simply don't see a lot of warping on my end at this point (and that could be because I'm not pausing at every opportunity, or that I don't feel the effects of it enough to rage) and don't have a lot of issues winning the appropriate matchup's. I'll continue sharing those too...just surprised more aren't interested in trying them.

                          All good though. I'm enjoying the hell out of the game and honestly rather do that then back and forth on this anymore. Hopefully the community speaks loud enough and keeps 2k from patching everything challenging out of the game...


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          I'm not actually talking about you, 24th. I've actually seen you acknowledge both sides of the issue.

                          I'll definitely use your advice and tips both to improve my own play and as a way to avoid the CPU defensive issues.

                          I think the squabbling happens with the tips are no longer just tips, but are used as ammo in arguments claiming nothing is wrong with some aspect of the game, and you just need to get better.

                          I mean, that's almost the exact wording of this thread, and the very same sentiment occurred in the other thread where the poster ignored that evidence and just launched into a "you just need to get better here's how". That's obviously not what you're doing.
                          Last edited by Sundown; 09-29-2015, 07:49 PM.

                          Comment

                          • kadzier
                            Rookie
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 494

                            #118
                            Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                            Originally posted by Hadlowe
                            And from my experience playing the game, that just isn't true. Poor defenders get caught on picks more, make worse decisions on rotations and are out of position for help defense far more often leading to easy assists when they overcommit. Being able to stop a drive is a BASIC skill NBA players have, which is why it is noteworthy when someone is good enough to beat them off the dribble. It is also fairly uncommon in actual games. Kyrie or Jamal Crawford or Harden may break down a guy a couple times a game (usually to take a lightly contestedpull-up jump shot), but a majority of his plays come in team concept ball. Same with Curry. Lebron doesn't blow by guys terribly often except in transition. Most of the time, he posts them up or plays pick and roll with Love and Mozgov.

                            The bumping serves an important, anti-cheese purpose this year. There are definitely ways around it (and almost as importantly, over it.) Reading and recognizing the defense is a necessary skill right now in the game, and it is going to take more than four days of playing the game to be good at.
                            can't agree with this enough. I've seen people saying that big, slow Centers are somehow able to defend small quick guards effectively, but after a couple of days playing the game this straight up isn't true

                            first of all, big slow guys will tend to sag off you to compensate for their lack of speed. If you're trying to blow past them in this situation that's your fault. Just step back and take the open jumper

                            And if they do step up, I've honestly found one simple fake gets them overcommitting one direction so I simply read what they do and blow by them the other direction. Honestly. I don't even need fancy crossovers to get high percentage looks off slow guys.

                            Comment

                            • Sundown
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 3270

                              #119
                              Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                              Thing is, most folk have acknowledged that there is warping/sliding(not sure where the "denial" is when literally no one in here is pretending that it doesn't exist)
                              /reads the thread title

                              There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense.
                              Huh?

                              Comment

                              • The 24th Letter
                                ERA
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 39373

                                #120
                                Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

                                Originally posted by Sundown
                                I'm not actually talking about you, 24th. I've actually seen you acknowledge both sides of the issue.



                                I'll definitely use your advice and tips both to improve my own play and as a way to avoid the CPU defensive issues.



                                I think the squabbling happens with the tips are no longer just tips, but as ammo in arguments claiming nothing is wrong with some aspect of the game, and you just need to get better.



                                I mean, that's almost the exact wording of this thread, and the very same sentiment occurred in the other thread where the poster ignored that evidence and just launched into a "you just need to get better here's how". That's obviously not what you're doing.

                                No doubt man...and I see where your coming from...

                                Wasn't speaking out at you either....the stuff I've read on here and Twitter today have just been just....ugh.....had to say my last piece on it....

                                Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                                Need to go ahead and get some games in with you man. I'm sure I'll get humbled Iron Shiek style by you but at least I can learn and take notes from your game, especially since I haven't played 2K regularly in years, lol.

                                Man you already know....I'm down to beat them Nets up anytime....assuming you use them lol


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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