Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[demencia_total]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I wish I could play with the CPU on offense at Superstar level and All-Star level on defense, that would be the sweet spot for myself. In my limited testing with sliders on Superstar, dropping all defensive values for the CPU still doesn't really solve the fact that they are way too close to the offensive player and can body you up into submission. Once you start seeing Trae Young apply pressure on the perimeter like he's Alex Caruso it becomes a bit disheartening, even if you can still beat the CPU by driving and forcing them to foul you since they challenge every shot/layup like its game 7 of the NBA finals. In said game, 4 of Atlanta's starters fouled out as well as Patty Mills (who replaced Trae) in 6 minutes and Haliburton ended up with 31 free throws in a double OT game. I like competitive games, but if I hadn't kept driving to the basket I would have no chance because I wouldn't have made enough perimeter shots due to the insane pressure the CPU was able to exert. At anything above 50 for the Defensive sliders (Driving Contact Shot, etc) you can't even get off layups since the CPU will end up fouling you or block the shot. Unless you have a completely open lane to the basket they'll magically recover and force you into some weird contact animation that makes little sense in context.

I guess the obvious solution would be to drop to All-Star, but I find the CPU to be fairly lethargic on offense on that level even with maxed out Offensive Awareness and Consistency. I honestly don't think that massive changes are needed to make Superstar work, just easing up and rebalancing the CPU ball pressure and inside contact would be enough for me since that would alleviate shots counting as contested when they aren't and I really like how they play offensively on that level.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I wish I could play with the CPU on offense at Superstar level and All-Star level on defense, that would be the sweet spot for myself. In my limited testing with sliders on Superstar, dropping all defensive values for the CPU still doesn't really solve the fact that they are way too close to the offensive player and can body you up into submission. Once you start seeing Trae Young apply pressure on the perimeter like he's Alex Caruso it becomes a bit disheartening, even if you can still beat the CPU by driving and forcing them to foul you since they challenge every shot/layup like its game 7 of the NBA finals. In said game, 4 of Atlanta's starters fouled out as well as Patty Mills (who replaced Trae) in 6 minutes and Haliburton ended up with 31 free throws in a double OT game. I like competitive games, but if I hadn't kept driving to the basket I would have no chance because I wouldn't have made enough perimeter shots due to the insane pressure the CPU was able to exert. At anything above 50 for the Defensive sliders (Driving Contact Shot, etc) you can't even get off layups since the CPU will end up fouling you or block the shot. Unless you have a completely open lane to the basket they'll magically recover and force you into some weird contact animation that makes little sense in context.

I guess the obvious solution would be to drop to All-Star, but I find the CPU to be fairly lethargic on offense on that level even with maxed out Offensive Awareness and Consistency. I honestly don't think that massive changes are needed to make Superstar work, just easing up and rebalancing the CPU ball pressure and inside contact would be enough for me since that would alleviate shots counting as contested when they aren't and I really like how they play offensively on that level.

All-star is where I've been this year all year. I'm usually a superstar kinda guy. But the offense goes NUTS when it's in superstar. I can't IMAGINE HOF.

[sirdez]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Yes CPU foul logic is a bit weird - there's no consideration for game scenario and how many fouls the defender has. You could be up or down 20 in the last 30 seconds of the half with an open lane, and the CPU's star player with three fouls will still desperately chase you and commit the foul to stop the bucket.

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

All-star is where I've been this year all year. I'm usually a superstar kinda guy. But the offense goes NUTS when it's in superstar. I can't IMAGINE HOF.

I'm going to really give All Star a shot for a few days or so. I usually do Superstar but I just can't even with the defense. I can score and win games but it's just not fun and it's an eyesore to watch every defender play like every movement is life or death. It's like, bro - relax. You're winning by 15 with 2 minutes left. No need to Bill Laimbeer me with 3 guys, haha.

[demencia_total]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

All-star is where I've been this year all year. I'm usually a superstar kinda guy. But the offense goes NUTS when it's in superstar. I can't IMAGINE HOF.

I actually like getting steamrolled once every few games by the CPU because in previous versions of the game its been extremely limited in what it can do once the user gets good at the game. Last year was a problem because no matter which sliders or settings you used the AI would hit a brick wall with shooting and it could never recover from it, so I welcome this new AI being a lot more aggressive given that defensive movement is a lot better for the user and I can actually adjust to what they are doing (for the most part). And if I find that they are abusing open 3's too much, I can always lower that slider for them.

But yeah, HOF is too much this year and to be fair, it should be. In fact, that's where the kind of D we're talking about belongs - exclusive to the hardest difficulty.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm going to really give All Star a shot for a few days or so. I usually do Superstar but I just can't even with the defense. I can score and win games but it's just not fun and it's an eyesore to watch every defender play like every movement is life or death. It's like, bro - relax. You're winning by 15 with 2 minutes left. No need to Bill Laimbeer me with 3 guys, haha.

Playing the Clippers on All-star right now and Kawhi is my key game matchup. Feels like I'm in mud when I have the ball. He breezes through every screen I call. It's one thing to make him play good D. It's another to TAKE MY CONTROLS AWAY.

[demencia_total]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm going to really give All Star a shot for a few days or so. I usually do Superstar but I just can't even with the defense. I can score and win games but it's just not fun and it's an eyesore to watch every defender play like every movement is life or death. It's like, bro - relax. You're winning by 15 with 2 minutes left. No need to Bill Laimbeer me with 3 guys, haha.

I will too, I actually started on All-Star and (at least at that time) you could get a lot better spacing to get shots off with dribble moves and screens and its not a complete bloodbath in the paint. The problem I was having with it is that I found the AI to not be able to keep up if I played good D so I would end up getting a lead and they wouldn't recover in a lot of games, whereas on Superstar I can actually feel like its a game of runs like the real game. You're absolutely right though, its not fun at all as it currently stands on Superstar with the supernatural defense and the extreme physicality. I'll give AS another shot though and see how that goes.

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

After the latest small update the game plays pre-update from a few days ago for me, unfortunately. All the sliding, warping and insanely good/physical defenders are back. Big sad.

[GoJags904]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Playing the Clippers on All-star right now and Kawhi is my key game matchup. Feels like I'm in mud when I have the ball. He breezes through every screen I call. It's one thing to make him play good D. It's another to TAKE MY CONTROLS AWAY.

One of the two things i hate about 2k but love everything else The different release times at random for jump shots with random animations and taking my controls away when I dribble for forced animations. AI is beefed up to make it harder and I get that. Just dont have players rated lower than me playing faster and more functionally sound on defense and offense while my player acts remedial to basketball basics. I can't sprint without delays to help the AI, crossovers get buggy etc. Makes me want to just watch cpu vs cpu if I can't even play basic bball without nonsense.

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[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

One of the two things i hate about 2k but love everything else The different release times at random for jump shots with random animations and taking my controls away when I dribble for forced animations. AI is beefed up to make it harder and I get that. Just dont have players rated lower than me playing faster and more functionally sound on defense and offense while my player acts remedial to basketball basics. I can't sprint without delays to help the AI, crossovers get buggy etc. Makes me want to just watch cpu vs cpu if I can't even play basic bball without nonsense.

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Just edit a roster and lower a player(s) to the lowest possible on all defensive ratings. You'd think they'd stink. They play defense exceptionally well. Way too well and it absolutely stinks. You can even edit their tendencies to 0 for contest/block shots and do the same for in game sliders and they will contest (aggressively) about 90% of everything. They'll do everything but suplex you.

I find there's not a lot of middle ground. Most of the time defenders either play like...well programmed AI that mirror your input, or a small percentage of the time they kinda don't even do anything. I'm not seeing the middle ground. Middle ground is kinda where the NBA lives. I mean...look at the scores. Indy play almost no D and just run guys outta the gym. You can't replicate Indy at all in 24. Watch any game and most of the scoring comes on drive and kicks or defenders kinda being mediocre or even kinda bad. Sure, there's exceptions, but nothing like 24. Even Tre Young isn't snatching ankles by spamming moves all game, and when he beats a guy his defender doesn't recover by destroying physics.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Just edit a roster and lower a player(s) to the lowest possible on all defensive ratings. You'd think they'd stink. They play defense exceptionally well. Way too well and it absolutely stinks. You can even edit their tendencies to 0 for contest/block shots and do the same for in game sliders and they will contest (aggressively) about 90% of everything. They'll do everything but suplex you.

I find there's not a lot of middle ground. Most of the time defenders either play like...well programmed AI that mirror your input, or a small percentage of the time they kinda don't even do anything. I'm not seeing the middle ground. Middle ground is kinda where the NBA lives. I mean...look at the scores. Indy play almost no D and just run guys outta the gym. You can't replicate Indy at all in 24. Watch any game and most of the scoring comes on drive and kicks or defenders kinda being mediocre or even kinda bad. Sure, there's exceptions, but nothing like 24. Even Tre Young isn't snatching ankles by spamming moves all game, and when he beats a guy his defender doesn't recover by destroying physics.

I capped this last night. Almost a 50 point triple double. I play on Superstar difficulty. I have no HOF badges and no offensive or defensive rating over 90. I play within my own offense that I designed and typically just run the plays. This was effortless.

https://youtu.be/4VN_S5MPI_Y?si=tQYQCHE0-5wu6SVd

[demencia_total]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I take back what I said about the AI offense being lethargic on All-Star, holy ****. Had a huge second half comeback by the AI in Thunder (me) vs Wolves (AI) in an in season tourney game and Mavs (me) vs Rockets ended with me losing the 3rd quarter 32-18 and couldn't close the gap in the 4th (33-33). I enjoyed both games even if I ended losing in those two examples.

However, I don't see that the patch made a huge difference, the on ball pressure is still a bit too much in terms of how close they can stay to the defender and recover way too quickly on screens at times, and I'm talking about mediocre defenders with no defensive badges and average/below average defensive ratings (I actually want and expect it from good/great on ball defenders). On All-Star you can at least lay off the turbo and that seems to keep their reactions somewhat real, but if you dare fall into old habits and start jamming that turbo button you'll end up with ridiculous animation triggers for the CPU, to the point where inside shots/layups are nearly impossible to get off at default contact/defensive slider values due to them wanting to challenge EVERY shot under any conditions with any defender and end up fouling out 2-3 of their players lol.

[sirdez]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I think the perimeter aggressiveness has been toned down a lot since the patch, which is good. You actually have some space to work in now, rather than the CPU hounding you all the way out to the halfway line, no matter what sort of a shooter you are.

There are still a lot of player movement issues (sliding and teleporting, no foot planting, disregard for natural momentum etc) but I figure this is probably limitations to the animation system and also proplay teething problems, so it's tolerable. There are still a lot of really buggy animations too, mostly with dribbling and too many steals that come off a players head or back. Animation-wise, 24 has felt like a really messy game for me.

The crazy close-outs, anticipation and recoveries are still there, but tbh I feel like they always will be until such time as the CPU can play logical help D. It just feels like a necessary trade-off.

[moemoe24]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

One of the two things i hate about 2k but love everything else The different release times at random for jump shots with random animations and taking my controls away when I dribble for forced animations. AI is beefed up to make it harder and I get that. Just dont have players rated lower than me playing faster and more functionally sound on defense and offense while my player acts remedial to basketball basics. I can't sprint without delays to help the AI, crossovers get buggy etc. Makes me want to just watch cpu vs cpu if I can't even play basic bball without nonsense.

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That has always been my beef with 2k basketball. The forced dribble animations. Its why i held out on 2k as long as i could and played Live.

[cch99]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I agree the perimeter D is too sticky. Another Part of the issue in my opinion is that the times you do get past the CPU you either can’t finish at the rim or if they send help and you dish the CPU recovers so quick you still don’t get an open look.

I’m finding the best offense for me this year is calling for a screen to get some separation then pull up and if they both come at you pass to the roller and if they don’t hope the shot goes in.

It seems running plays isn’t getting me the clean looks like they did in previous versions.


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