Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

For years you could create a team with mostly defensive specialists that are streaky shooters at best, and the AI wouldn't punish you for it. They let you just go in drive after drive. It just really makes me wonder where all the ACE adjustments are at? It's surprising cause ACE was highly touted back when 2K16 released. What we're talking about is basic fundamental defensive concepts, right?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Even when the AI defenders overcommits, generally in my experience they are able to recover rapidly (sometimes with obvious warping) and the hip ride animation pushes you to the sides even after having a clear step advantage to the rim.

That said, I realize this is all kind of pointless. 2K18 soured a lot of people because the interior defense wasn't there to compensate.

For offline players, I think a slider to adjust AI reaction times would be nice.

I'm going to disagree with you, but not in the direction you probably expect. I think one of the issues is that AI defenders don't overcommit. AI defenders don't appear to anticipate. If you watch the video I posted, when ballhandlers did beat the mismatch to the rim it was because the defender did what in 2k would be a quick right stick up closeout. I don't think I've ever seen the AI closeout or otherwise attempt to contest a shot before I started my shooting motion. Everything the AI does seems to be reactionary. And because its AI and has AI reactions, it can react pretty damn quickly.

In the video VDusen posted where he rightfully thought he should have had a blowby from the corner, the AI didn't behave realistically. If that was real life the defender would have had a hand up anticipating a shot, and thats what would have allowed a blow by. But in 2k since the AI doesn't anticipate they guard their man like NFL cornerbacks.

I'm not having much trouble getting to the hoop and I like the physicality. As someone who enjoys going to pro basketball games in real life, I think watching basketball on TV undersells the physicality of the game as opposed to watching it in person.

I am having trouble, however, making layups and scoring off post moves when I think I should be. It seems that even the lightest contest results in a brick at the rim. I'm adjusting my play style to this and I'm gonna try to play with shot timing on (instead of Real Player FG%) to see if I have better success.

I'm having the same problem a little but not much. I think there is maybe too big of a gap between the elite scorers and the average guys, but I'm not 100% sure because during the game I definitely feel that way but then when I check season stats most my guys are putting up realistic FG%.

It may be a case where our misses stick out more than our makes?

TLDR: The AI defenders need to be programmed to corral ballhandlers mindset vs. a strict cutting off the ball handlers mindset. This is rooted in tech limitations. Czar has stated numerous time that hardest thing about defense is facing issues

The isssue with the game in this regard is that AI defenders dont play angles to in on-ball defense situations.

AI defenders dont have to give space and attempt to use their size to contest a jump shot. Defenders are too effective in keeping their chest in front of the ball. This combined with the issue that jumpshot contests are too fast compared to jumpshot animations makes it so it is hard to take consistently take advantage of those "Steph getting guarded by Rudy Gobert situations"

The most consistent way to beat a big off the dribble in 2K is to sprint outside of his contact box. This is because, IMO, the game does a poor job of allowing defenders to move diagonally (in a nonsprinting fashion). So it compensates by allowing slower defenders to boosted in side to side speed.

The current hip ride animations would be fine but they (along with most ball handler animations) take up too much space on the court.

Yeah for as much as 2k looks very good and smooth at times, the core movement is very stiff. Its especially bad on defense.

Go look at clips of elite perimeter defense like Kobe putting Wade in bars and then watch how ball defenders move in 2k. Its not at all lifelike and actually downright bad if we are being honest.

One big flaw I am noticing the cpu defenders don't even sag off of bad shooters. No matter who the offensive player is the cpu defenders pretty much pick them up at half Court on defense. The A.I is not recognizing to sag off poor shooters or fast players that can drive to the basket effectively. This definitely needs to be patched.

I don't know how many of you watch the channel, but Thinking Basketball just did a video on Dirk and about halfway through that video I said to myself that they were guarding him the way 2k off ball defenders guard every bigman. Its actually very striking to notice, and 2k absolutely must improve on this moving forward.

[Eddie1967]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm not having much trouble getting to the hoop and I like the physicality. As someone who enjoys going to pro basketball games in real life, I think watching basketball on TV undersells the physicality of the game as opposed to watching it in person.

I am having trouble, however, making layups and scoring off post moves when I think I should be. It seems that even the lightest contest results in a brick at the rim. I'm adjusting my play style to this and I'm gonna try to play with shot timing on (instead of Real Player FG%) to see if I have better success.

I'm missing a lot of easy layups even with that slider up to 60

[STLRams]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Playing 2k24. I just witnessed on what should have been a mismatch Jokic was guarding Bradley Beal on the perimeter and Jokic was able to play tight defense and stay with Beal every dribble and move and couldn't shake him. This is nuts..smh. 2K has to address this, you would think the CPU logic would have Jokic lag off of Beal on D, but I guess it may as well play tight D since apparently Beal can't blow past him.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Playing 2k24. I just witnessed on what should have been a mismatch Jokic was guarding Bradley Beal on the perimeter and Jokic was able to play tight defense and stay with Beal every dribble and move and couldn't shake him. This is nuts..smh. 2K has to address this, you would think the CPU logic would have Jokic lag off of Beal on D, but I guess it may as well play tight D since apparently Beal can't blow past him.

That’s hilarious considering Beal’s grandpa can probably beat Jokic off a dribble.

[Douevenbench913]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

What difficulty?

Playing 2k24. I just witnessed on what should have been a mismatch Jokic was guarding Bradley Beal on the perimeter and Jokic was able to play tight defense and stay with Beal every dribble and move and couldn't shake him. This is nuts..smh. 2K has to address this, you would think the CPU logic would have Jokic lag off of Beal on D, but I guess it may as well play tight D since apparently Beal can't blow past him.

[muddiestduck]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Quick clarification.

If I cannot blow by people. Would I lower CPU body up sensitivity or User body up?



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[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Quick clarification.

If I cannot blow by people. Would I lower CPU body up sensitivity or User body up?



Sent from my SM-G990U using Operation Sports mobile app

User sensitivity. I turn it down to 0 and there's still lots of contact. Engaging turbo automatically turns the defender into a very aggressive/good opponent even with 0.

[muddiestduck]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

User sensitivity. I turn it down to 0 and there's still lots of contact. Engaging turbo automatically turns the defender into a very aggressive/good opponent even with 0.

I agree. I put both at zero thinking players would be coated in butter.

Was hoping I could then bump up from there until i found a good balance. Seems like it doesn't effect a cpu as much as they tend to blow past my defenders while I'm getting bumped.


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[rudyjuly2]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Quick clarification.

If I cannot blow by people. Would I lower CPU body up sensitivity or User body up?



Sent from my SM-G990U using Operation Sports mobile app

In my opinion you lower CPU body sensitivity. That affects how much they can body you up and slow you down. If you want the cpu to drive easier, you drop the human Body Up.

[VDusen04]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I agree. I put both at zero thinking players would be coated in butter.

Was hoping I could then bump up from there until i found a good balance. Seems like it doesn't effect a cpu as much as they tend to blow past my defenders while I'm getting bumped.

I'm glad you asked the question. Sometimes it's confusing to wade through and figure it all out.

I also got similar results. Bumped both down to zero and it seemed like there was a slight improvement but still a lot of bumping. I had the same idea (starting low and working the sliders up from there) but doesn't seem like that's going to work much. I'm considering dipping some other CPU defensive sliders as well.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

It won’t wipe out CPU resistance completely but lowering the CPU body up sensitivity and on ball defense should help a great deal


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[VDusen04]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Played 2K23 last night. Decided to try 2K24 again tonight. By far, the most frustrating element of 2K24 for me is the ball handler-defender interactions, which is problematic because that's a huge part of the game.

In my case, I went ahead and lowered on-ball defense, defensive awareness, and defensive consistency all to zero yet I still get these frequent moments where it feels like the defense is on rails with me, perfectly mirroring anything I'm trying to execute.

Here I am running downhill toward a stationary Reggie Miller. Should be possible to get some kind of edge or corner here. And initially, it feels organic—like 2K23—but then you can see a moment where the rails kick in, which is when Reggie speed drops at perfect equi-distance from the ball handler to prevent any sort of advantage whatsoever.

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Those are the most frustrating moments, where it feels like my read of a play or attempt at execution is trumped by the game's decision to make things artificially difficult on me. Not to mention, even with all those defensive sliders at zero, I'm still getting bumped all over when I try to expose an edge.

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Yes, in my experience dropping body up sensitivity and on-ball defense to 0 as well as lateral quickness to 25 still didn't result in a huge difference. The most impactful change I've found is to edit the roster and globally edit all players to have the blowby badge (I set them to gold).

I didn't want to touch defensive awareness and defensive consistency because the help defense in the game is already lacking. But it's not surprising to know that the way defense plays is mostly hardcoded (unfortunately).

[CX1329]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I wish we could have the physical defense but without the paranormal mind reading and the Jesus-like movement VDusen highlighted.

I love the feel of the tight perimeter D when the defender is actively guarding the ball handler, but defenders should not be able to magically keep up with a fast moving ball handler from a standstill. It's just goofy and it defies the laws of physics and human biology.

2K always seems to go too far the other way when addressing issues. Blow-bys and speed changes were fairly OP in 2K23, but now defenders are magnetic. It completely nerfs the open court game and makes it hard to beat defenders off the dribble even with elite ball handlers.

Something else I've noticed that needs to be changed is how easy it is to get sucked into animations. I keep thinking I've got an open path to the hoop and an open layup only for some defender to come literally sliding (almost teleporting, even) from way behind and either body me up from behind or contest the layup. Come on, bro. This wasn't a problem in 2K23, why is it a problem now? Is it because of ProPlay or something?

The game plays great, flows great, the AI is great, but the supernatural defenders and the sucking into animations need to go.