Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

You can’t stop some of the blatant hip riding animations on the perimeter but if you drop Body Up Sensitivity to 25 you can absolutely blow by and beat guys on the perimeter offline.

[jk31]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Guys like you complain and 2k quietly updates the game and make things easier for you some of us like smothering defense it's the NBA not street ball in real basketball you have to work for a clean shot not just run around breaking ankles

good defense is the result of good TEAM defense and a lot of helping and rotating. in 2k you don't see this and thus they artificially increase the onball defense to an unrealistic level to compensate.

[STLRams]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

It just blows my mind that I can put Yao Ming on defense vs Ja Morant for example and no matter the defensive rating of the player that somehow the players on ball defense basically mirrors the ball handler and most of the time keeps up with them. I have witnessed some crazy on ball defense by alot of defenders that are not great on ball defenders but somehow can catch up and mirror the ball handlers movements.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Guys like you complain and 2k quietly updates the game and make things easier for you some of us like smothering defense it's the NBA not street ball in real basketball you have to work for a clean shot not just run around breaking ankles

You're not going to be popular in this thread but I don't think you are that far off. This thread is sort of a generic catch-all "defense needs work" thread. And imo, some of the complaints are valid and should be fixed, others not so much.

I'm by no means a "stick skills god" but on superstar I have no problem getting by defenders with Steve Francis and Rafer Alston at a realistic rate.

Your delivery could have been better tho lol

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I can understand why some might like the smothering, maybe because of concern about easy layups/dunks, but the solution isn't to make every defender behave like a hounding bulldog, but to have dynamic and aggressive help defense and rotations. I could also say the solution is to remove green releases and lower shot make % across the board (still want to have to work for your shots?), but that is never happening.

I haven't seen people wanting it to be easier, more like people want the flow to more closely replicate what goes on in the real games. But it's a never ending balance of fulfilling the players who want 2K ball, and the players who want NBA ball. To me, 2K ball as it stands now IS street ball.

[VDusen04]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I can understand why some might like the smothering, maybe because of concern about easy layups/dunks, but the solution isn't to make every defender behave like a hounding bulldog, but to have dynamic and aggressive help defense and rotations. I could also say the solution is to remove green releases and lower shot make % across the board (still want to have to work for your shots?), but that is never happening.

I haven't seen people wanting it to be easier, more like people want the flow to more closely replicate what goes on in the real games. But it's a never ending balance of fulfilling the players who want 2K ball, and the players who want NBA ball. To me, 2K ball as it stands now IS street ball.

This is it right here.

For me, it's always been about whether I'm being rewarded for playing basketball. If I play an angle right, if I get a defender to lean off-balance, if I made a right decision, do I earn an advantage on-screen or is an invisible forcefield compensating to create a faux sense of competition?

If the game wants to send proper helpside defenders via sensible rotations, so be it. But it's a pain to know when you've made the right move only for it to be mitigated by a speed warping defender.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

You're not going to be popular in this thread but I don't think you are that far off. This thread is sort of a generic catch-all "defense needs work" thread. And imo, some of the complaints are valid and should be fixed, others not so much.

I'm by no means a "stick skills god" but on superstar I have no problem getting by defenders with Steve Francis and Rafer Alston at a realistic rate.

Your delivery could have been better tho lol

I agree. Especially with your last sentence.

Every possession may not include a complete blow by, even when facing a mismatch.

Some may require a quick move to shake the defender, some may result in a hip ride, some may have you turn the corner with the defender on your hip. As you said, you’re not a dribble god, but even on Superstar these things are possible.

For me personally, I appreciate the variance. We all have different interpretations of basketball but I tend to lean toward that being a more realistic outcome…though I understand why some players prefer the instant penetration like 2K18 gave us.


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[FixEverything2k]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Part of it is the lateral quickness issue.

If a player has high speed then in the game they will be moving fast laterally as well

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I agree. Especially with your last sentence.

Every possession may not include a complete blow by, even when facing a mismatch.

Some may require a quick move to shake the defender, some may result in a hip ride, some may have you turn the corner with the defender on your hip. As you said, you’re not a dribble god, but even on Superstar these things are possible.

For me personally, I appreciate the variance. We all have different interpretations of basketball but I tend to lean toward that being a more realistic outcome…though I understand why some players prefer the instant penetration like 2K18 gave us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. I am slowly coming around driving past players. I can get by guys at an acceptable level. However, the 2 man animations on layups after separating from the defender on a drive are terrible.

Part of it is the lateral quickness issue.

If a player has high speed then in the game they will be moving fast laterally as well

There seems to be some chatter that this may be fixed. It would be a very big fix. There are some bad defenders sliding around the court on defense way to fast.

Trae Young being one of them.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I agree. Especially with your last sentence.

Every possession may not include a complete blow by, even when facing a mismatch.

Some may require a quick move to shake the defender, some may result in a hip ride, some may have you turn the corner with the defender on your hip. As you said, you’re not a dribble god, but even on Superstar these things are possible.

For me personally, I appreciate the variance. We all have different interpretations of basketball but I tend to lean toward that being a more realistic outcome…though I understand why some players prefer the instant penetration like 2K18 gave us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The different interpretations are definitely a factor in conversations like this. For example when a bigger slower guy is guarding a quicker guard, I don't think the most common outcome is a blowby or even an attempted blowby in the real NBA. The most common outcome I think is creating space for a jumper.

Searching youtube for "best NBA mismatches" and this was the first result:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y69Ckm7goFE?si=QA-OjeMo1chLoRmf" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Even when the ballhandler does blowby the bigger defender, its because they tried to create a J first and the big overcommitted.

I do wonder how many people are just trying to aggressive breakdown followed by turbo launching towards the rim and expecting to be able to blowby poor defenders.

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Even when the AI defenders overcommits, generally in my experience they are able to recover rapidly (sometimes with obvious warping) and the hip ride animation pushes you to the sides even after having a clear step advantage to the rim.

That said, I realize this is all kind of pointless. 2K18 soured a lot of people because the interior defense wasn't there to compensate.

For offline players, I think a slider to adjust AI reaction times would be nice.

[CX1329]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm not having much trouble getting to the hoop and I like the physicality. As someone who enjoys going to pro basketball games in real life, I think watching basketball on TV undersells the physicality of the game as opposed to watching it in person.

I am having trouble, however, making layups and scoring off post moves when I think I should be. It seems that even the lightest contest results in a brick at the rim. I'm adjusting my play style to this and I'm gonna try to play with shot timing on (instead of Real Player FG%) to see if I have better success.

[Baebae32]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

The different interpretations are definitely a factor in conversations like this. For example when a bigger slower guy is guarding a quicker guard, I don't think the most common outcome is a blowby or even an attempted blowby in the real NBA. The most common outcome I think is creating space for a jumper.

Even when the ballhandler does blowby the bigger defender, its because they tried to create a J first and the big overcommitted.

I do wonder how many people are just trying to aggressive breakdown followed by turbo launching towards the rim and expecting to be able to blowby poor defenders.

TLDR: The AI defenders need to be programmed to corral ballhandlers mindset vs. a strict cutting off the ball handlers mindset. This is rooted in tech limitations. Czar has stated numerous time that hardest thing about defense is facing issues

The isssue with the game in this regard is that AI defenders dont play angles to in on-ball defense situations.

AI defenders dont have to give space and attempt to use their size to contest a jump shot. Defenders are too effective in keeping their chest in front of the ball. This combined with the issue that jumpshot contests are too fast compared to jumpshot animations makes it so it is hard to take consistently take advantage of those "Steph getting guarded by Rudy Gobert situations"

The most consistent way to beat a big off the dribble in 2K is to sprint outside of his contact box. This is because, IMO, the game does a poor job of allowing defenders to move diagonally (in a nonsprinting fashion). So it compensates by allowing slower defenders to boosted in side to side speed.

The current hip ride animations would be fine but they (along with most ball handler animations) take up too much space on the court.

[cloakingturtle]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I also find this has impacted the CPU's ability to play offense because my own AI defenders are also closing out way too quick breaking the flow of the offense. 3pts attempt from cpu is down and their shooting has been down too. It's not as bad as 23 but man we are slowly getting back to 23. It's such a shame considering how good this game was out of the box.

[STLRams]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

One big flaw I am noticing the cpu defenders don't even sag off of bad shooters. No matter who the offensive player is the cpu defenders pretty much pick them up at half Court on defense. The A.I is not recognizing to sag off poor shooters or fast players that can drive to the basket effectively. This definitely needs to be patched.