Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Does anyone remember a few years ago when the CPU defense would recognise non shooters and hang off.

I remember OG putting out a video about it. I also remember the CPU going under on screens when I handled with Simmons.

It's an area that needs attention.

I'm very curious why the AI does this against me but apparently doesn't from other user's experience. I play on SS but that is a popular difficulty.

I would hope its not related to sliders because those should not affect gameplan behavior

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm very curious why the AI does this against me but apparently doesn't from other user's experience. I play on SS but that is a popular difficulty.

I would hope its not related to sliders because those should not affect gameplan behavior

My experience is the same as yours. The cpu does not sag off Capela. I can put him at the top of the key or the 3 point line, and the big will be out of position. This is on HOF. So I don’t see the cpu giving non shooters space.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm very curious why the AI does this against me but apparently doesn't from other user's experience. I play on SS but that is a popular difficulty.



I would hope its not related to sliders because those should not affect gameplan behavior

No I’m saying it used to happen in past 2ks. The sagging was more on ball than off.

My experience is the same as what Rob just said.

I do notice that help often comes from the defender guarding my non shooter which is a positive but they’re still hugging up on them.




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[simbayless]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Inside&hook shots needs a buff
Too many inside shots are missing even when the defender out of position

[VDusen04]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Small sample size but from what I can tell so far, I'm not liking what I see at all in terms of CPU defense and lack of blow-bys. Using Isiah Thomas with body up sensitivity at zero, I've noticed moves that would have been blow-bys or live dribble advantages in 2K23 are now situations where CPU defenders perfectly mimic my controller input and appear nearly impervious to being cleanly beat off the dribble.

Giving me vibes of 2Ks gone by that used to drive me crazy for things like this.

Edit: It's like I'm flashing back to NBA 2K20 or whichever one I last owned before 2K23. Same problem as back then, where the CPU defender contact/force field has been extended unnecessarily as a means of preventing ball handlers from exposing a realistically earned advantage.

Here's Joe Dumars with a wide open path to the basket for which he would have easily exploited for an easy bucket if this were real life. Instead, a force field holds Dumars in place just long enough to allow Jay Humphries to completely x out what should have otherwise been an easy advantage.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/iRku6wnuhVyJWEV9Fw" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/iRku6wnuhVyJWEV9Fw"></a></p>

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

The game accurately separates good penetrators from average ones. The difference between Trae Young on drives and Bogi is night and day. However, it does not do a good job of separating average and bad defenders. You can see the difference between Marcus Smart and Luke Kennard, UT you ca t tell the difference between Desmond Bane and Luke Kennard.

The game tying defensive stance speed to regular speed was not a good decision. Lateral quickness should not have been removed as the controller of defensive stance speed.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

The game tying defensive stance speed to regular speed was not a good decision. Lateral quickness should not have been removed as the controller of defensive stance speed.

I hope this is a fixable bug.



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[duhitsrandy]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

The game accurately separates good penetrators from average ones. The difference between Trae Young on drives and Bogi is night and day. However, it does not do a good job of separating average and bad defenders. You can see the difference between Marcus Smart and Luke Kennard, UT you ca t tell the difference between Desmond Bane and Luke Kennard.

The game tying defensive stance speed to regular speed was not a good decision. Lateral quickness should not have been removed as the controller of defensive stance speed.

i didn't notice they did this.. what does lateral quickness even do now then?

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Small sample size but from what I can tell so far, I'm not liking what I see at all in terms of CPU defense and lack of blow-bys. Using Isiah Thomas with body up sensitivity at zero, I've noticed moves that would have been blow-bys or live dribble advantages in 2K23 are now situations where CPU defenders perfectly mimic my controller input and appear nearly impervious to being cleanly beat off the dribble.

Giving me vibes of 2Ks gone by that used to drive me crazy for things like this.

Edit: It's like I'm flashing back to NBA 2K20 or whichever one I last owned before 2K23. Same problem as back then, where the CPU defender contact/force field has been extended unnecessarily as a means of preventing ball handlers from exposing a realistically earned advantage.

Here's Joe Dumars with a wide open path to the basket for which he would have easily exploited for an easy bucket if this were real life. Instead, a force field holds Dumars in place just long enough to allow Jay Humphries to completely x out what should have otherwise been an easy advantage.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/iRku6wnuhVyJWEV9Fw" width="480" height="270" frameborder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

I also find that the defense mirroring inputs combined with forced 2 man animations ends up being bad for the defense quite often. It can be exploited (legit NBA tactic) and you can get a targeted defender in foul trouble because they have no other gear other than go hard. The defenders just lock in go hard, and objectively play overly-physical. Regardless of the situation the defender will always frantically defend the ball handler and you can draw fouls, and realistically even if the defender was prime Gary Payton he'd let up in many situations and not force himself out of the game.


I often cannot use the new turbo/burst in some pretty suspicious situations adding to the odd force field issue. I can be in an obvious position where I'd go as fast as I can to get the open layup but when I do the actual input doesn't even happen, or it happens late which forces an elite NBA athlete to move awkwardly, slow down and then get caught up in a real lame and suspicious 2 man animation where the defender who is behind me is making me stumble and go slow, resulting in what I can only describe as forced difficulty and bad defensive coding. It doesn't represent simulation and realism, but it does make the game more difficult.


On a positive note I can say I see improved help defense and rotations, which is fantastic. I hope that between patches and roster edits and slider changes that aspect of defense can be brought more to the forefront replacing this current version of ultra robotic, near perfect one on one interactions.

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

i didn't notice they did this.. what does lateral quickness even do now then?

https://youtu.be/NETxGtIwoaI?si=kAwaE23PkDQiiCTk

I have no idea what lateral quickness even does now.

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

https://youtu.be/NETxGtIwoaI?si=kAwaE23PkDQiiCTk

I have no idea what lateral quickness even does now.

Tuts has great videos. I'm with you after watching this one the other day. It seems like it isn't working properly, or if it is, it's not a particularly valuable or useful stat.

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm at the point where I can forgive the AI warping and psychic reactions, but I cannot move past the low amount of three point attempts -- it is just so jarring to me how the game plays out of the box knowing how the modern NBA plays.

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm at the point where I can forgive the AI warping and psychic reactions, but I cannot move past the low amount of three point attempts -- it is just so jarring to me how the game plays out of the box knowing how the modern NBA plays.

3 point attempts? You mean by you or the cpu? The cpu shot 59 threes vs me in a game.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I'm at the point where I can forgive the AI warping and psychic reactions, but I cannot move past the low amount of three point attempts -- it is just so jarring to me how the game plays out of the box knowing how the modern NBA plays.

In general I don’t see a problem. It’s team specific and I just played the Warriors who took 31 of 47 shots from outside on 6 min quarters (my roster has CP3 starting over Looney).

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

The cpu as far as I can tell don’t take stepback 3s


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