Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
I guess this is all offline.
I blow by just fine online though [emoji23]
I guess this is all offline.
I blow by just fine online though [emoji23]
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Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo -
Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Some clips (custom slider All-Star base with 0 body up sensitivity 0 on-ball defense 0 lateral quickness) -- needless to say unnatural movements / warping will be more frequent on stock difficulties. The first clip I added just because it was the classic AI psychic reaction to my input. The Hunter clip shows body momentum for the defender not mattering. Murray not looking at the offensive player and then still shifting his body. Marcus Morris mediocre and slow footed defender playing up close and still able to react.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KpiatF-oqKc?si=M1AxTrWyZMjkrFSn" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>Last edited by m29a; 10-18-2023, 07:08 PM.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Thank you. Seeing the clips helps me understand what issue is actually occurring. I don't think its a pointless distinction that the problems from these clips have nothing to do with the thread title. On the off chance a 2k dev or Czar is lurking and sees this thread we wouldn't want them to either ignore this or fix the wrong thing. The problems here have nothing to do with the AI not giving space and instead illustrate the current limitations of 2k physics.
As to why some see this and some don't (like the clip Jeebs posted), perhaps 2k put in some anti-cheese code. With the exception of the first clip, each of those look like you took 24 very literally and were only using left stick plus turbo. A few years back the online play was pretty bad because the preferred tactic was the "zigzag offense" and 2k took steps to eliminate that as an effective tactic and I think we may be seeing the remnants of that.
But yeah the play at 25 seconds looks especially bad. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is somehow triggering 2k's "turbo spam protocols." Its unfortunate but the limitations with the engine forced them to put in some unrealistic responses to combat the unrealistic cheese online users were seeing.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Every single one of these clips invoked irrational frustration from within.
NBA 2K23 wasn't perfect, but I could certainly adjust the game to allow me to take advantage of a lot of the basic angles and avenues that are being unrealistically stonewalled in '24.
I chalk that up to something Czar discussed around 2K23's release last year, where he mentioned the team shortening or lessening the stonewall window for defenders (not the right phrase but the real phrase escapes me). Basically, they made it sound like there's a hardcoded range they can adjust for which defenders can retain contact with the offensive player and last year they chopped that down to allow for more free flowing creation.
It honestly just feels like they jacked that back up for '24, so we're back to the same insanely frustrating CPU defense interactions I used to run into on some older 2K iterations.Last edited by VDusen04; 10-18-2023, 10:21 PM.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Clearly most are spamming turbo. I just use turbo on defense. Just a click during offenseI guess this is all offline.
I blow by just fine online though [emoji23]Comment
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Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Just a few examples of my typical experience- default superstar
Side note: Man that movement looks just like Kawhi
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkComment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Oh **** you use ice man too!? I've been using them tooJust a few examples of my typical experience- default superstar
Side note: Man that movement looks just like Kawhi
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQoComment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
I can't even wrap my head around 24's videos. I literally never see anything like it. I'm in no way shape or form exaggerating or being hyperbolic in any way in saying that every defender regardless of who it is or what the situation is either mirrors my input at the precise millisecond I input it, or they recover in such a way that even if we as humans were capable of it, one of our legs would break from torque/angle/physics. Especially from behind. I can get past a guy and have a solid step or more on them (usually from a pick) and once I input a layup or dunk they slide/warp from behind me to a usually gnarly/violent contest.
I spent most of yesterday trying to figure out what or why is causing it. At one point I had to shut it off because I started noticing that after full roster edits bringing every single defensive attribute to 25 (the lowest you can go) in roster edits when I called for a pick the defender immediately pressed me at the exact millisecond I called for said pick. I watched about 2 dozen replays just to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. The defenders are aware of everything I do quite literally as I input my intended actions.
I'll also point out that some rosters are much worse than others regardless of any ratings or badges. For example Tynoles roster is great in that it plays awesome with players doing situationally appropriate things like step-backs, head fakes etc, but it is by far the worst offender for psychic defenders. Again - I've removed all defensive badges and brought every single defensive rating to 25 within the roster, yet every defender is beyond amazing. Versions of the ATD roster including CelticsLG5 are better in that regard and actually the movement feels much more responsive, but the problems still persist and foul calls are almost non existent even with everyone having at least a gold whistle badge and a 90 draw foul rating (idea taken from Tynoles).
Daily updates don't help much either in that some days I turn it on and it plays noticeably faster or slower than last time I picked it up. And since speed is essentially the only thing needed to play robotic defense as I've mentioned lowering attributes to 25 does quite literally nothing - speed changes are a huge impact.
I'm going to plug away and see what I can figure out, if anything, but I'm less optimistic for the time being and my hopes lie in either updates, patches or a fluke combination of a roster/slider mix.
I appreciate the conversation a lot though. Seeing videos' like 24's showing the complete opposite end of the spectrum vs what I am experiencing is eye opening in that at least there is hope.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
I would suggest burning it all down and starting again.
Go back to vanilla rosters, then revert sliders to default. Play games or even better practice mode one difficulty below what you consider your "natural" difficulty level.
Once you reestablish the baseline experience, you can work on what I think the main underlying issue is -- 2k demands a certain "smoothness" going from RS dribble moves to LS+turbo exploding to the rim. I think 24, jeebs, and to a lesser extent myself were able to find that timing relatively early and now its muscle memory. Go into freestyle practice mode and try different dribble moves and experiment with different launch points. I think before long you'll get a light bulb moment.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
I'm convinced that 2k has some code that rewards setup dribbles and that might be something that many are missing. I can do the same move in two situations -- one I receive the pass and immediately hit it, the other I do some dummy dribbles first. And almost always I will have more success if I set my guy up with some dummy stuff first.Just a few examples of my typical experience- default superstar
Side note: Man that movement looks just like Kawhi
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
What difficulty are you playing on?
I’m using Superstar, and with Body Up Sensitivity at 15, Lateral Quickness at 25 (not sure this slider does anything TBH), and lowering Speed/Accel/Strength by 5 for the CPU only had made it incredibly easy to blow by defenders.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Good call there.
I actually think there could be credence to a number of potential factors you guys have mentioned in this thread. It's just always tough to discern between placebo and reality.
I've noticed the setup dribble aspect you've mentioned because I think there's been some other 2Ks with a similar vibe on that front, where it felt like freestyle dribble combos were the only reliable way to elude a defender effectively in the half court. Makes for a frustrating endeavor because real basketball isn't just iso-dribbling until you're able to cross someone up.
Someone else mentioned the potential over-use of turbo and I considered that as a possible culprit as well. I could see the game being wired to punish turbo on account of online spammers but I think that'd speak to a larger issue because in real life, players do turbo themselves past defenders when the situation makes sense (say, heading down hill in transition toward a stationary defender).
Third, I've noticed I can often slip past defenders with superstars. I mean, I played the Kobe Challenge and the game felt alright enough, but probably because I was busy exclusively trying to drop 62 in three quarters with one of the greatest players of all-time. The issue with defense didn't really begin coming into focus until I began trying to play a good natural game of basketball with teams sans Kobe/Shaq/any other mega star. Like, whether he's an all-time great or not, someone like prime Sean Elliott should sometimes be able to beat a defender via first step, jab stab, or angles with momentum in the open floor. Instead, it just tends to be a lot of stonewalling.Comment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
You guys were talking about this earlier in the thread regarding AI reaction/ anticipation or lack thereof.
I personally think it’s a strong point of the AI this year. They react to moves, get flat footed, “guess wrong”, and anticipate directions. It’s not perfect and there is absolutely so rubber banding that occurs, but I can see what they were going for.
You can see it in the clips I posted, that’s the stuff I’m looking for when I try and get past a defender. That’s what you’re seeing as far as successful setups.
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
I can get around most non elite defenders with decent perimeter players.
My problems are more with the contests than not being able to drive to the rim. However, all right stick and moving shots have a much lower contest rate than standing still shots. So if you can learn thos hop step/right stick and moving jumpers you can get shots off. The stop and pop game is lacking on standstill jumpers thoughPsn: Alabamarob
Xbox: Alabama Rob
Youtube: 2k Hawks
Settings I play on.
Minutes: 12
Difficulty: HOF
Online or Offline player: Both
In a MLO: YesComment
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Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering
Put your on ball sensitivity at 25
And put the CPU On-Ball Defense at 40
You will definitely have more breathing room
Im cooking with my mamba Camp lakersComment
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