Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[sirdez]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I love the feel of the tight perimeter D when the defender is actively guarding the ball handler, but defenders should not be able to magically keep up with a fast moving ball handler from a standstill. It's just goofy and it defies the laws of physics and human biology.

Got a good example here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUt5ja5xDk

Murray runs Barnes into the Gordon screen at the top of the key, then as Barnes fights through it, Murray quickly moves back the other way (a very common move with a screen and one the CPU spams).

This should really shake Barnes loose as he is moving in the other direction, but it's like he hits an imaginary wall and suddenly he's moving the other way and stopping Murray's drive into the lane.

To me it really incapsulates the frustrations with CPU on ball defending, and by extension probably illustrates the biggest challenges devs have. So much of beating your man one on one is through using fakes and hesitation, quick changes of direction etc to get them off balance or moving the wrong way. This becomes a lot less effective once the defender isn't affected by normal physics and momentum.

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I wish we could have the physical defense but without the paranormal mind reading and the Jesus-like movement VDusen highlighted.

I love the feel of the tight perimeter D when the defender is actively guarding the ball handler, but defenders should not be able to magically keep up with a fast moving ball handler from a standstill. It's just goofy and it defies the laws of physics and human biology.

2K always seems to go too far the other way when addressing issues. Blow-bys and speed changes were fairly OP in 2K23, but now defenders are magnetic. It completely nerfs the open court game and makes it hard to beat defenders off the dribble even with elite ball handlers.

Something else I've noticed that needs to be changed is how easy it is to get sucked into animations. I keep thinking I've got an open path to the hoop and an open layup only for some defender to come literally sliding (almost teleporting, even) from way behind and either body me up from behind or contest the layup. Come on, bro. This wasn't a problem in 2K23, why is it a problem now? Is it because of ProPlay or something?

The game plays great, flows great, the AI is great, but the supernatural defenders and the sucking into animations need to go.

Got a good example here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUt5ja5xDk

Murray runs Barnes into the Gordon screen at the top of the key, then as Barnes fights through it, Murray quickly moves back the other way (a very common move with a screen and one the CPU spams).

This should really shake Barnes loose as he is moving in the other direction, but it's like he hits an imaginary wall and suddenly he's moving the other way and stopping Murray's drive into the lane.

To me it really incapsulates the frustrations with CPU on ball defending, and by extension probably illustrates the biggest challenges devs have. So much of beating your man one on one is through using fakes and hesitation, quick changes of direction etc to get them off balance or moving the wrong way. This becomes a lot less effective once the defender isn't affected by normal physics and momentum.

Even if they wanted to have psychic defenders, they should take out the 2 man animation range. Nothing worse then beating a defender, and getting pulled back into a contested layup

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Try dropping the inside and driving contact shot sliders when playing offline.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I find it even worse since the last couple of updates. Defenders are mind reading robots on rails mirroring my every input . I just got shut down as Ja Morant by Osman on the spurs. He quite literally mirrored my every single move at the precise millisecond I did them. Sliders for CPU D all on 0.


Super fun and realistic. Kind of stuck now since I've done every slider change and roster edit I can.

[DaWolf]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Yes its even worse after the Patch. Try lowering CPU quickness to 45 to 47. I think that helps with the mirroring Defense.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Love when the crowd Oohs and Ahhs when I get ankle breaker to trigger and my defender looks at me like "bruh I ain't moving..." ������

[muddiestduck]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Love when the crowd Oohs and Ahhs when I get ankle breaker to trigger and my defender looks at me like "bruh I ain't moving..." ������������������

Yes! Throw it the post and do a subtle flick of the right stick. A little shimmy. Crowd loses their mind every time


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[howardphillips214]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Yes! Throw it the post and do a subtle flick of the right stick. A little shimmy. Crowd loses their mind every time


Sent from my SM-G990U using Operation Sports mobile app

Oh yeah! Killer crossover on Trae Young and he hip rides me the whole way to the rim and I clank the 1 on 1 layup cuz he breathed on me.

Last year I'd post Trae Young every play. I would put him in the blender on screens and 360 on his head.

This year he's Tony Allen I swear!

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Yes its even worse after the Patch. Try lowering CPU quickness to 45 to 47. I think that helps with the mirroring Defense.

I'll try that!!

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I played this morning and the cpu defenders were giving space. I will play a few more games, but if this is the new cpu then that's a big improvement

[papaey]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

stop spamming turbo I guess? I don't have any issue, a simple triple threat and a click of r2 do the wonders.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

There may be something else within slider alignment causing an issue if on ball/ body up is lowered heavily and there are still an excessive amount of bumps. Maybe clear out your sliders and start fresh? I’m not exaggerating when I say I can literally left stick by guys with those settings lowered.


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[STLRams]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

2K must have done some kind of slight update. I can now blow by some of the defenders with my current edited sliders a little easier now. I even saw a couple of coast to coast plays by the CPU after a rebound and the defenders didn't magically pull them back. Also for the first time saw the game switch to the highlight camera angle on a fast break dunk. Not sure what triggered it. Would be nice to know how or what exactly triggers it. I just wish the CPU defenders played smarter on non shooters vs good shooters. No matter who it is they guard pretty much every player the same way and don't adjust.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

There may be something else within slider alignment causing an issue if on ball/ body up is lowered heavily and there are still an excessive amount of bumps. Maybe clear out your sliders and start fresh? I’m not exaggerating when I say I can literally left stick by guys with those settings lowered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The lack of gameplay videos of this particular complaint in this thread makes me question things.

But to your point, my past experience with "slideritis" does suggest that too much finetuning does tend to eventually have a detrimental effect. I don't know if that is due to a very real "slider entropy" or if it is just in my head where finding the perfect sliders becomes an obsession and with each tweak I make I start to put more and more under a microscope.

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I guess I can post a YT video of clear warping, but I honestly figured that pretty much anyone playing this game has seen it at least to some degree. It's also just general basketball logic -- in that fundamentally the closer the defender is to the ball handler, the more likely they are to get blown-by. No, blow-bys shouldn't happen every time but basketball is all about give and take. If a defender wants to lock me down, they should have to sag off to give themselves time to react unless they're one of the few true elite defenders in this league.

I've been rewatching the Big 3 Heat finals runs (so far 2011 and 2012 done -- I'm at game 4 2013 now -- the NBA app has all finals series starting from 1990 and I plan to slowly get to all of them), and I have been seeing plenty of defenders sag off Wade and James to force them to take jumpers (because they're so lethal at the rim) -- THEN once they hit some, they're getting to the rim more because the defender can't take away both. Pick your poison.

A lot of this is going to vary on our own perception and expectations.