Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[hapa17]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

EDIT - I am fully aware that spamming dribble moves can get guys open, but aside from a few players I don't think it's an accurate representation of NBA basketball. I shouldn't have to make an AND 1-esque series of moves every possession to beat guys like James Harden (lol) off the dribble.

this part is so true. until i found this post, i had started watching youtube videos on how to do advanced dribble breakdown moves thinking my lack of iso sticks skills was what was holding me back. but you’re absolutely right, topwater, that wouldn’t be an accurate representation of NBA basketball.

way way back i was an offline franchise player, but a few years back i decided to embrace myteam. had some fun with it, mostly collecting cards and playing offline. then in the last couple of years, i got so tired of the grind, the online toxicity, and the ridiculous cards (99 galaxy opal tacko fall type sh*t), that i was going to come full circle this year and go strictly offline with myeras, mygm or whatever the hell they call franchise these days. i felt really good about my choice on friday. but this new state of the game has me rethinking my life choices.

[Lagoa]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

^ Agree! About that...

Jordan never was a crossover or and1 guy, but he's just unstoppable in attack. Its about speed + first step + read defense. There isn't a single player in the entire NBA who could stop him 1-on-1.

So, u right, we not need dribles to pass our opponent. Try my tip, 2 topic above!

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

My bad, Eccentric Meat already said this.

Nah, gotta reiterate it as much as possible since everyone seems to be missing it in this thread. Drop Body Up Sensitivity to 20 or lower for the User, and boom you can blowby defenders that you should. Dropping the Speed/Accel/Strength/Lateral Quickness attributes for the CPU (on SS/HOF difficulty) will also remove the artificial boost they receive. JasonWilliams55 made a great post years ago on this subject: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...09&postcount=5

No proof that these same values are still 100% accurate, but that's how the game used to boost/nerf the CPU based on difficulty. Make of that what you will.

[bigmike0077]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Dropping the sliders is worth a try, but what about the fact players seem like they arw moving sluggish and in mud one day and the next day they are not.

I popped in the game last night and everything just felt sluggish. I played 3 days ago and it didn't feel like that.

Theres few problems I guess for me

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

1. Lateral quickness no longer controls the defensive sliding speed of defenders. Speed covers that now. So if a person is fast on offense they are fast on defense. James Harden and Trae being an example.

2. Strength affects the perimeter defense so if a guy is strong and fast God bless you.

3. The 2 man animations are too strong. You can brat a guy off the dribble and he speeds warps back into you. Even if going opposite directions. This affects finishing around the rim and jumpshooting also.

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

1. Lateral quickness no longer controls the defensive sliding speed of defenders. Speed covers that now. So if a person is fast on offense they are fast on defense. James Harden and Trae being an example.

2. Strength affects the perimeter defense so if a guy is strong and fast God bless you.

3. The 2 man animations are too strong. You can brat a guy off the dribble and he speeds warps back into you. Even if going opposite directions. This affects finishing around the rim and jumpshooting also.

Unfortunately, as I've said before, I believe your third point is the primary issue. I can't even get fastbreaks now. The speed boosts of defenders and odd slowing down/dribble animations of the ballhandler has taken over. I had Giannis wide open open about halfway between the 3 point line and halfcourt last night receiving a pass from (stolen ball) from Jrue. Nobody within 5 feet of him. Giannis, of course slowed down to get the pass, then would not push the ball forward despite my tapping turbo, then he did sprint but just let up and decided to do that hunched over crossover animation that I didn't input and by that time Maxey smashed into me before I could attempt a layup. Easily top 10 worst 2K moments I've ever seen, and I have played since Dreamcast.


What makes it worse is in scenarios I described the defender will very often get a foul called against them, even if it's bad decision. In my example Maxey earned his third foul before the half. All because the primary objective of the AI defender is at all costs force a physical interaction with the ballhandler preventing an open layup/dunk. Regardless of game situation, physics or NBA rules.

[simbayless]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Hey guys! I didn't play it at launch, just after the patch, but I felt exactly what you were complaining about. Stifling and unrealistic defense.

But I believe I FOUND THE PROBLEM! Is in the DEFENSE sliders:

Inside/drive contact, jumpshot release/gather, drive gather/release. I change all this to 20 and YES! No more GOD defense by CPU.

Now I need to work to find the exact balance. Test it and see if solves for you. I play in the HOF, anyway.

By doing that do you still get fouls from the CPU
I noticed last year the lower the D-strength is the less foul calls u get

[AIRJ23]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

1. Lateral quickness no longer controls the defensive sliding speed of defenders. Speed covers that now. So if a person is fast on offense they are fast on defense. James Harden and Trae being an example.

2. Strength affects the perimeter defense so if a guy is strong and fast God bless you.

3. The 2 man animations are too strong. You can brat a guy off the dribble and he speeds warps back into you. Even if going opposite directions. This affects finishing around the rim and jumpshooting also.

What does lateral quickness do now then?

Just crazy that it's basically us talking about this, as it seems most things are just catered to the online modes/play.

Like I really hope it gets addressed in a patch because it wasn't like this during releas, or atleast not this Bad. But it seems this isn't a gameplau issue they are willing to fix.

I really want to start a mynba now, but i just can't with thre game like this.

If anyone goes back and looks up the launch week impressions of 2K22 and 2K23, everyone was calling them god tier games. Best 2K’s ever, flawless gameplay, ultra realistic, etc. Then the patches rolled in. I remember about a month or weeks into 2K23 when they started to patch it, it felt like 2K22’s patches where they undid all the intelligent refined AI they advertised, and it became “cheese and anti cheese tuning” city. Every aspect of gameplay catered to safeguarding online play from people being able to easily exploit or advance in it without giving 2K tons of money.

I said last year that every single 2K will always end up playing like 2K22: Unrealistic sticky defense, interior block/contest cheese, instead of intelligent schemes, overly powered shot contests, etc. It really doesn’t matter how they launch the game, it’ll always get undone. The fast break hitches will be back, etc. Because they to be for online modes and to mitigate online zombies from complaining, and offline suffers.

Excessive slider tuning can usually find some semblance of launch day play. But not sure if that’s the case this year as I’m skipping 2K24. I dealt with so much slider stress chasing these ghost patches in 2K22 and 2K23 another year of it sounds like hell. I wish you guys luck in dealing with how these changes affect and mate with a new tech less tested tech like proplay which was tuned for the gameplay at launch, and I’ve seen some people complain hitches and glitches in the animations have started showing up especially in two man animations (ball not hitting the floor when engaging dribble moves needed to beat defenders now, physical interactions looking more choppy, etc.).

[b1g]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Loving the game but on HOF it's still impossible to hit contested shots which is too unrealistic. Especially when they're showing clips of Kobe hitting turnaround 3's on double teams and all type of other shots right in defenders face playing the best defense you can possibly play. I know there's a hot/cold streak meter, so do you have to get extremely hot to hit contested shots? Has anyone ever hit an and 1 three on HOF?

[Eddie1967]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Lower the speed/accel/strength/lateral quickness values for the CPU by 5, and drop the USER Body-Up Sensitivity down to 25 or lower (the lower you go, the more blow-bys and fewer hip rides).

Lowering the user body up sensitivity saved the game for me. I was close to going back to 2k23.



Thanks!

[m29a]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I didn't touch on it before, but yeah, the 3 pt attempt rate in 2K across the board for most players is likely considerably lower than where the actual NBA has been at for years now.

The smothering defensive style would be fine if there were tradeoffs. But in 2K the defender can play super close, then recover rapidly even with mediocre defensive ratings, and push the offensive player to the sides to prevent the drive. I mentioned in the impressions thread, but there is still warping going on.

Put simply, the way the 2K defenders plays on the perimeter would be a clear foul in the real NBA games. 2K gameplay is reminiscent of 90s/2000s basketball -- yet we are deep into modern NBA in the 2020s, and the flow is much different, so this series being close to "simulation" is very questionable.

[GoDucks1224]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

You know what’s weird? I don’t have this problem with the WNBA teams. The WNBA games I’ve played seem way more fluid. Defense feels more natural, rather than them being stuck to you like glue and impossible to get by without triggering a series of dribble moves. I was getting more open shots. Being rewarded more for running plays, making quick passes. Making more contested shots. The WNBA played more like I wish the NBA games did. Went back to NBA and quit after five minutes. Hard for me to go to that when the WNBA feels so much better. I also felt like the animations were more natural. No idea why this is.

[topwater]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

You know what’s weird? I don’t have this problem with the WNBA teams. The WNBA games I’ve played seem way more fluid. Defense feels more natural, rather than them being stuck to you like glue and impossible to get by without triggering a series of dribble moves. I was getting more open shots. Being rewarded more for running plays, making quick passes. Making more contested shots. The WNBA played more like I wish the NBA games did. Went back to NBA and quit after five minutes. Hard for me to go to that when the WNBA feels so much better. I also felt like the animations were more natural. No idea why this is.

DUDE!!! Last year it was the exact same for me. I thought I was losing my mind. The spacing/size of the players also felt awesome!

[Eddie1967]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

You know what’s weird? I don’t have this problem with the WNBA teams. The WNBA games I’ve played seem way more fluid. Defense feels more natural, rather than them being stuck to you like glue and impossible to get by without triggering a series of dribble moves. I was getting more open shots. Being rewarded more for running plays, making quick passes. Making more contested shots. The WNBA played more like I wish the NBA games did. Went back to NBA and quit after five minutes. Hard for me to go to that when the WNBA feels so much better. I also felt like the animations were more natural. No idea why this is.

I have noticed this as well. I would say that the WNBA games are more fun to play. Much smoother animations and I haven't noticed any bumping. You don't get stuck in any weird animations. Fast breaks are much better.

[The 24th Letter]

Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

AI on ball defense wasn’t touched from gameplay standpoint.

and I realize not a lot of people here are really aware of what actually takes place online, but rest assured “sticky defense” is not a demand…in fact AI defenders stats are lowered to encourage on ball defense in H2H matches.

What’s funny is on a scale of 2K17 (The bumpiest 2K of all time) to 2K18 (traffic cone on ball defense) I would rank 2K24 somewhere near the bottom. On ball doesn’t feel very overwhelming to me.

It’s a pretty straight forward slider fix though…You can make the AI show little resistance with a few tweaks if that’s what you want.

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