Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

[hapa17]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

does everyone who hits multiple contested shots a game feel like cpu close-outs are realistic? they feel ridiculous to me. i don't need to hit contested shots to feel good — i need to feel like it's possible to work the ball around into an actual uncontested shot.

the best i can usually do is get a shot that should be uncontested, but then the defender makes a miraculous recovery and closes out enough to make my shooter stumble after release. if i try to hurry and "pre-load" my shot as the pass is coming, then it doesn't feel like i'm allowing a gather (set my feet), and i never make those.

i feel like pre-patch on superstar, i could occasionally pass the ball around to an open shot, set my feet, splash. now, it feels like the best i can do is swing it around to what seems like an open shot, but the defenders recover and close-out at insane speed. something changed, right?

[hapa17]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

this is pretty much what i'm talking about.

https://x.com/hapa17/status/1705391766499971550?s=20

murray drops down to double tatum in the post, brown cuts to the opposite wing, i pass him the ball, and murray closes out from the right block to left wing through traffic in time to easily contest brown's shot (into a stumble animation). this just doesn't seem realistic to me. am i crazy?

[cloakingturtle]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Ive been trying to play through a game all night and i cant get past 5 minutes. It just feels off and boring. Impossible to get any kind of open shots and even when i do the defender miraculously makes a contest. I'm just so disappointed and tired of 2k and the online crowd. They could have just stopped working on 2k24 and move on to 2k25 and it would have been perfect, but no they had to mess it up again.

[doorknobb]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Welp at least i got a couple weeks to enjoy the game before they broke it again..every *** **** year! All they need to do is archive the damn tuner patches so we can select which one we want to play offline. Its all they have to ****ing do... my shooting dropped a good 10% last 6 games in mynba, i thought i was just in a slump but now i can only score if i cheese pick and rolls, forget shooting. This is on superstar.

Thanks for the sanity check. Since the patch without changing anything else I’m bricking shots like Ben Simmons trying to shoot 3s and Alex Caruso seems to be able to not just guard one player but the whole floor somehow with his 90+ perimeter D. I had someone who isn’t even facing me about 3 steps away simply raise their arm and that seems to be enough to make me brick. It also affects AI on my team and to a degree everyone on the court, but not to degree it does to me as the player. It’s driving me nuts especially since the result is that I’m now shooting free throws for like half of my scoring somehow since at least they call fouls at more or less the same rate, but I have to attempt a drive since jumpshots are almost impossible to hit. I’m at halftime in a game on the same difficulty, meter, and literally all my points come from free throws so far. What the hell? Superficially I’m scoring points but this is a slog.

edit: just made my first actual shot, from the post, 6:41 left in the 3rd, 1/8 FG but 8/9 FTM, this is ridiculous. Shot put my team in the lead. 10 minute quarters. I’ve managed to score more on shooting fouls on 3 pointers than field goals.

[cloakingturtle]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

So i took a different approach this time. I passed the ball around, found the hot hand and attacked the weak defenders. Ended up having the most fun ive had so far with this game on default superstar.

1. I was a cold Raptors(15-22) vs hot Lakers(25-13)
2. Defense does feel alot tighter since the patch no denying that. I found though as the game went on and i moved the ball around they got tired maybe? Creating different openings than my usual money plays that i run.
3. Finding the mismatch is key for sure.
4. Lots more fouls and i think this is the result of tighter defense.
5. I did hit contested shots, i think the key is to use your player's strength and hot zones(makes sense). For me the raptors are not the greatest shooting team lol...

Will see when i play a weaker team again in my schedule if defenders are not as smothering, this could be attribute/badge related.

I attached my boxscore

[doorknobb]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

I think something is wrong with the badges. It’s probably not even feasible to test which ones work and which ones don’t and to what degree since not all players have badges and nobody has all the badges, but situations where they should activate doesn’t seem to activate, at all, which means that it’s attributes and how you get around that. But since the AI is likely designed with badges in mind, if you play two strong teams with badged players it becomes really ridiculous quickly, but two weak teams with few badges probably end up without much difference.

But with EAFC released, 2K’s impeccable timing really ends up shooting themselves in the foot. But I mean, I just played a game, Bucks v Bulls, where Holiday and Lonzo combined for 4 points and Derozen went 3-17 with Giannis on him. That is hilarious, but also really unplayable. If you look at the badges they have it makes some sense that it’s the culprit, and really if you want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt, the most likely one I think. If you make the badges go away the AI actually needs to be tweaked or they end up very much falling into the same issue, even if not to the same degree.

[sirdez]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Your passes are way too slow, allowing the CPU to beat the ball to the spot. It's really out of whack.

The at the other end the CPU can pass at warp speed. I've currently got my pass speed at like 70 and the CPU at 20.

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Vs the HOF cpu. They really need to do something about the lack of turnovers, and deflections on passes in the paint.

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Finally had a game where I was able to get up 30 threes. It was a struggle though, as the CPU smothers you outside.

Made about 20 contested jumpers this game. 3’s and 2’s. Some more heavily contested than others.

[sirdez]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Another thing I'm noticing is it's really hard to get CPU defenders caught on screens, particularly off the ball. Generating open perimeter shots seems almost impossible, but they do it easily against you. It's frustrating as open shots are a legitimate and common part of basketball - this just feels like artificial difficulty.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

My beef is that 2k's offball settings aren't as extreme as what we see in real life. Its impossible to give someone the Rondo/Ben Simmons treatment in game. And if an old school style big is out on the perimeter, his man should treat him like he doesn't exist. In real basketball you would never see Rudy Gobert not protect the rim because he was guarding Andre Drummond on the perimeter.

I hope to see two changes:
1. An option for big men where priority 1 should be to protect the rim and guarding their man should be priority 2.
2. Redesign off ball pressure to match the extremes we see in real life. Gap or leave them should result in this kind of defense:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MSyN2cmTHaw?si=05lEpT5f1cj2-kpk" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[alabamarob]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

My beef is that 2k's offball settings aren't as extreme as what we see in real life. Its impossible to give someone the Rondo/Ben Simmons treatment in game. And if an old school style big is out on the perimeter, his man should treat him like he doesn't exist. In real basketball you would never see Rudy Gobert not protect the rim because he was guarding Andre Drummond on the perimeter.

I hope to see two changes:
1. An option for big men where priority 1 should be to protect the rim and guarding their man should be priority 2.
2. Redesign off ball pressure to match the extremes we see in real life. Gap or leave them should result in this kind of defense:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MSyN2cmTHaw?si=05lEpT5f1cj2-kpk" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Most important aspect missing from the last 3 games. You can play non shooters and space the floor with non shooters. Even the CPU is sticking Jared Allen and Nick Clackston in the corner.

It worked last gen and maybe 1 time this generation. I don't know why the neglect this. It kills the realism and allows for alot of fake lineups.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

Another thing I'm noticing is it's really hard to get CPU defenders caught on screens, particularly off the ball. Generating open perimeter shots seems almost impossible, but they do it easily against you. It's frustrating as open shots are a legitimate and common part of basketball - this just feels like artificial difficulty.

They have so many sliders including two steal sliders (Defense and attributes) plus a generic strength slider. Why can’t they add a screen strength slider? Being able to set how effective screens are would be fantastic. I’ve dropped strength to 0 (attribute slider) and I think it makes them less effective but I can’t say for sure.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

They have so many sliders including two steal sliders (Defense and attributes) plus a generic strength slider. Why can’t they add a screen strength slider? Being able to set how effective screens are would be fantastic. I’ve dropped strength to 0 (attribute slider) and I think it makes them less effective but I can’t say for sure.

Strength does affect screen effectiveness. The drawback is that it affects other things as well. I wish they would make a screen specific slider or at the very least redo the screen animations. Its like the animation guys fell in love with their selves and making pretty animations because some of those animations are way too long

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Perimeter Defense Seems Way Too Tight - Smothering

this is pretty much what i'm talking about.

https://x.com/hapa17/status/1705391766499971550?s=20

murray drops down to double tatum in the post, brown cuts to the opposite wing, i pass him the ball, and murray closes out from the right block to left wing through traffic in time to easily contest brown's shot (into a stumble animation). this just doesn't seem realistic to me. am i crazy?

Nothing wrong with the defense there. It just took you too long to shoot. You caught the ball and stopped for a second, you need to immediately put the shot up.

What difficulty are you on? I’ve said before that higher difficulties give the CPU a boost, so you can lower their Speed/Accel/Strength sliders by 5-ish to make things more even and make them not close out so fast. You can also decrease the Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) slider for the USER, which will make their close outs less aggressive and immediate (though I’d honestly leave that alone as you want competent close outs IMO).