Bumping and canimations

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Or, just practice or reduce your level. I barely get the 'bumping' animations on the perimeter. I beat my defender constantly when I have superior ball handlers. If you utilize isomotion better, you will have more success.

People keep talking about removing the 'bumping' but that's how the game is made. If they remove this via patch who knows the host of other imbalances it may cause. The 'bumping' is really just a collision between to bodies which is absolutely realistic. If you are running straight into your defender there will be a collision, real life or game. Its not perfect, but the game is the closest thing to the NBA ever made. Lets try to learn it before deconstructing it.

It's not about my skills on the perimeter with the ball. I don't wanna spam iso's like a Rutger's game. That's not realism. A simple cross or a triple threat release beats guys all the time. It's where they go after that is what matters.

Bumping isn't realism either. Maybe to you it is, but the way it is used in this game on 90% of the animation's, it is not. When you bump and kind of slink by the defender while he maintains his ground and forces you one way, that is realism. That is what great on ball defenders do. They force you to an area on the court where help D can be very effective, or try to make you less effective by passing or taking a low percentage shot. Even then, that doesn't happen every single time when every single player gets the ball on every single square inch of the floor.

Online cheesers or iso spammer's ruin the game. I get that. This is not a realistic way to eliminate it. Also some people insist they want a realistic game yet, try to do nothing but highlight reel plays when playing the cpu, and this is effective for them. I don't want that either. I don't play like that. I have quickness, vertical and defensive awareness, and on ball D toned way down in my sliders because the game is too arcade like w/o those changes (for my taste).

If you commit defensively and get beat and you magically slide into your defender making him stop and take 4 dribbles backwards, what kind of contract do you think you would get? Seriously - without fouling and being able to do this, what do you think your worth to an NBA team would be? I would dare say every team would offer you max salary and sign you for as long as possible w/o an option. Luckily for Jose Calderon, this year, that's his new role!!! Sadly for him, he's not getting the money though.

For the people that like it, want it, need it, think it's accurate - great. I don't want the game ruined for you. I want an option to play w/o it. I want help D and less bad programming. I know they can patch it. I just hope they will.

[mnus03]

Re: Bumping and canimations

2 things that struck me from most1ed's bobby knight vid.

1. How easy it is for a ballhandler at full speed to blow by a stationary defender.(something i haven't been able to do once yet on the fastbreak and if anyone has any tips im all ears)

2. How important help Defense is.

For the likes of me i can't figure out why the bump is necessary to stop dunkfests.

Instead of the magic warp bump from good defenders why not increase rubs as well as there effectiveness.

And i don't mean a drawn out canimation. What i mean is make a player who is side by side with you do what that does in real life: Widens your desired angle, belabors and slows down your movement, and limits your options.

What im talking about is if you have only somewhat beat your defender let the cpu ride your hip. Passing into the side where the defenders riding you should be more labored and dangerous while passing away from the defender would be relatively easy. And to not make it a canimation let the user pull away from the defender if he chooses. This would increase the Help D's effectiveness.

The more the user pushes into the defender the more labored his movement becomes and the more he pulls away the more freedom he gets. Hopefully this would have the sort of push an pull the real life scenario gives.

On ball defense against good ball handlers is very rarely about shutting down your man and is more often about limiting your mans options and forcing a less then desirable angle.

The user with the dribble should never be without some sort of control, and if an animation is necessary, at least let him pull out and adjust. Even if that means there is only one direction(away from the basket) to do so.

NBA 2k11 is my favorite game of all time and i don't like dunkfests but im not satisfied with the fix yet, and i don't think we should be, cause as good as the game is new editions can and should be better.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

2 things that struck me from most1ed's bobby knight vid.

1. How easy it is for a ballhandler at full speed to blow by a stationary defender.(something i haven't been able to do once yet on the fastbreak and if anyone has any tips im all ears)

2. How important help Defense is.

For the likes of me i can't figure out why the bump is necessary to stop dunkfests.

Instead of the magic warp bump from good defenders why not increase rubs as well as there effectiveness.

And i don't mean a drawn out canimation. What i mean is make a player who is side by side with you do what that does in real life: Widens your desired angle, belabors and slows down your movement, and limits your options.

What im talking about is if you have only somewhat beat your defender let the cpu ride your hip. Passing into the side where the defenders riding you should be more labored and dangerous while passing away from the defender would be relatively easy. And to not make it a canimation let the user pull away from the defender if he chooses. This would increase the Help D's effectiveness.

The more the user pushes into the defender the more labored his movement becomes and the more he pulls away the more freedom he gets. Hopefully this would have the sort of push an pull the real life scenario gives.

On ball defense against good ball handlers is very rarely about shutting down your man and is more often about limiting your mans options and forcing a less then desirable angle.

The user with the dribble should never be without some sort of control, and if an animation is necessary, at least let him pull out and adjust. Even if that means there is only one direction(away from the basket) to do so.

NBA 2k11 is my favorite game of all time and i don't like dunkfests but im not satisfied with the fix yet, and i don't think we should be, cause as good as the game is new editions can and should be better.

This ^

Once you're in a guys hip pocket on D, you have done one of two things. You either succeeded in forcing him to a less than ideal spot, forcing him to try and get away, pass(possibly badly), drive (badly - no foul call since he is just looking for one) or shoot a less than average shot. Or, you over commited and he breaks you down and leaves you behind. Either way, his help D are in an excellent spot and effectively, they as a team played good defense. People score in the NBA all the time. Good D or bad D, or no D...people score.

The Suns in recent years have had pretty bad D, and the Lakers have had pretty good D. When the teams met up the Suns still scored. Yet the Lakers didn't score that much more. Funny how that works. This isn't football, so the animations and the principals should not be a part of it.

[mnus03]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Once you're in a guys hip pocket on D, you have done one of two things. You either succeeded in forcing him to a less than ideal spot, forcing him to try and get away, pass(possibly badly), drive (badly - no foul call since he is just looking for one) or shoot a less than average shot. Or, you over commited and he breaks you down and leaves you behind. Either way, his help D are in an excellent spot and effectively, they as a team played good defense. People score in the NBA all the time.

Agree completely

[TeeDogg]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I know you weren't, I was just addressing the comments you made. I'm not having any issues, I just find it highly insulting when people pretend like legitimate problems with the game are just in our imaginations and everything is absolutely perfect so we should all just learn to deal with it.

Are you on the PS3 or 360? im on the 360 and i get shreaded by good ball handlers on the regular. and once i learned how, i can realistcly create space and get to the paint with good ball handlers. try using the LS crossovers and wrap around dribbles (no triggers). Get the defender going one direction then crossover. once you cross dont angle directly to the hoop. take a wide angle away from the defender. hope that helps some, id hate to be missing out on this awsome game so i hope you find some slidders you like. and far as you being able to bump the cpu ball handlers........hmmm i dont know wade, lebron, nash, parker, and quite a few others have all shreaded my D to peices....i just hope they dont screw the game up trying to apease everyone. good luck though

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Good thread. But this is probably an issue that devs aren't capable of addressing otherwise you probably wouldn't see these kinds of animations as ingratiated in the game's identity as they are.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bumping and canimations

check out the tips thread fellas....

[mnus03]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Good thread. But this is probably an issue that devs aren't capable of addressing otherwise you probably wouldn't see these kinds of animations as ingratiated in the game's identity as they are.

Very true...but...if in a future game they by some stroke of genius figured out a way to replace the canimations and bumping with something more intuitively basketball.

Well, id be way happier than i probably should be.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Good thread. But this is probably an issue that devs aren't capable of addressing otherwise you probably wouldn't see these kinds of animations as ingratiated in the game's identity as they are.

I think they can. With one 'roster update' they changed how the games plays dramatically up to and including physical contact and the sliders that affect it in game. I don't want to wait a year in hopes that next year it will be fixed, because unless it gets their attention, it may not be.

Again, I am not asking to remove it (since a lot of people like it) I am just asking for it to be fixed via sliders, removal of certain animations, addition of new ones, etc. At least make it so that I have to press a button to make my controlled player to do it to the cpu. Or fix help D and get rid of it, but that's me being selfish.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bumping and canimations

It's not about my skills on the perimeter with the ball. I don't wanna spam iso's like a Rutger's game. That's not realism. A simple cross or a triple threat release beats guys all the time. It's where they go after that is what matters.

I agree

Like this
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...ediaid=2904390

Tired of all the defender bumping? Try some quick hitter moves….no turbo, no L stick….just switch to the opposite hand with momenteum and this can throw your defender off a great deal….if they anticipate it, just throw it right back to the other hand. And youll have them off balance. You actually get that “defender riding you” sequence a lot more without holding turbo down.

So thats not working for you?<O</O

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Very true...but...if in a future game they by some stroke of genius figured out a way to replace the canimations and bumping with something more intuitively basketball.

Well, id be way happier than i probably should be.

You and me both. Imagine this game with no bumping, the player control of the initial rosters (no sliding and less herky jerky) and the player AI of the latest roster update. That's a good game right there!!!

[Disappoint]

Re: Bumping and canimations

check out the tips thread fellas....

Wow, what an insightful comment. I thought that bumping into a ballhandler when you are moving your feet was a foul but then I read the tips thread and realized that it wasn't and the NBA rule book was wrong. Thanks for all of your help.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Wow, what an insightful comment. I thought that bumping into a ballhandler when you are moving your feet was a foul but then I read the tips thread and realized that it wasn't and the NBA rule book was wrong. Thanks for all of your help.

I lol'd...

[Da_Czar]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Great topic and thread really enjoyable read. There are a couple things I think are important to add. 2k11 is by no means perfect and can stand to be improved in a number of areas.

I completely understand guys wanting more blow by’s and less of the types of contact were seeing in the game.

The more time I spend talking with Dev’s the more I understand how much Game development is a process of moving from imperfect implementation to less imperfect implementation release by release.

2k11 was made in response to all the issues of 2k10. One of which being porous and ineffective defense. While this thread proves the solution is not perfect it did provide a solution to not only the offline game but the online game as well.

Online with the inherent delay without some form of contact it leaves the defense at a severe disadvantage.

For the offline gamer... While 2k11 represents the finest sim product to date IMO. It’s still lacking far too many fundamental basketball principals to accurately allow massive penetration and still provide a challenge for most advanced users.

The help defensive system this year is miles ahead of last year and with another year of improvement it will be in a much better position to account for the added pressure of dealing with more natural penetration.

Without the defense being as it is this year you wouldn’t have the pathway to take it from good but imperfect to next year which we hope will be less imperfection.

So we went from porous to maybe a bit overly effective but once your there you further adjust. The frustrating thing for some gamers is understanding that this was a necessary step to get to where you want to go.

Almost eveything in a game even if you hate it is there because is solves some type of problem and that is the issue with impoving the games year to year. They must make the improvements without also breaking what that last implementation fixed.

That said not all the contact in 2k11 is bad or unrealistic and this is where the issues come up in threads like these. Those making a legitimate point are countered by those who are also making a legitimate point but each side is only focused on the percentage of time where their example is correct.

If you take 10 offensive possession where contact is made and you have a user who understands 2k’s isomotion spacing and the right game type and slider settings. He may see 7 correct collisions and 3 of the ones that are not in any way shape or form sim or realistic.

For any game that would be a ratio most can live with.

Take another user who is may not have the same settings or may not attack the cpu the same way with spacing and isomotion and its very possible for that user to have the exact opposite with 3 correct collisions and 7 terrible ones that just don’t make sense.

This user is completely justified in his thesis that the contact in the game is overdone.

When people come into a thread like this one and attempt to post solutions they usually are coming from that First group who can acknowledge there are some poor collisons in the game but their personal playing experience is not dominated by those collisions. and of course visa versa.

While not perfect 2k has a way to account for speed and mismatch differences where you can indeed get the correct blow by animations without 20 seconds of stick olympics just to get by a guy. It may not line up with how you think it should be done but a solution is in place.( even with it though you will still have those possessions were not matter WHAT you do the collisions stops you when it shouldn't)

That said there are also serious limitations to the contact animations themselves. Including sucking you into the defense when you should be going past him that can still happen depending on your attack angle etc.

BUT there are also times with the right settings and using the solutions they provide when you can get by people as you should and slide off them rather than getting bumped back all the time.

What you don’t want to see though is them try to address this now and break something else.

I am working on a video to detail some of this but it will not mean that you will have 100% great collisions because of the issues with the system. It does not mean that there are no issues with the system.

The main culprit being they don’t have proper drop step collision animations so when you change directions the defenders feet do not drop but stay the same so when you make contact with him you get pushed back instead of advancing into his space and getting bumped along the way. That is where those defensive ride along animations would play out that were mentioned above.

Great thread couldn't find a shorter way to say it ... Apologies for the long windedness.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Wow, what an insightful comment. I thought that bumping into a ballhandler when you are moving your feet was a foul but then I read the tips thread and realized that it wasn't and the NBA rule book was wrong. Thanks for all of your help.

Gotcha. Actually I appreciate your response.

This just proves to me your more concerned about making a point than anything....Your on your mission to prove that "everyones trying to hide the games flaws" rather than actually discussing anything. I posted comments and a brief video there on how I consistenly avoid bumping...(on the sim setting at that) and you continue with your agenda...Is the bumping overdone? yes in your opinion, is it avoidable? yes, and thats a fact.

My bad, didnt know what your motives were, I wouldnt have said anything,

EDIT: Well yeah I still wouldve, but more guided to the people who arent trolling