Bumping and canimations

[bearschicago]

Re: Bumping and canimations

The bump/cutting off dribble animation was needed because a major glitch/exploit existed in 2K10:

-There is this semi-glitch on defense. What happens is say I’m the PG with the ball and I go near to my SG. I pass it to my SG and player defending PG will freeze and stay next to SG for 1-2 secs allowing PG an open shot. Can take advantage of this almost every time.

Now I do agree that offensive players can generally get by his man but the key is help defense.

[Disappoint]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Great post, Czar. I like the length, you can't always explain everything in 2 sentences.

Would you agree that part of the problem is how fast players strafe? Because it seems to me like big men are strafing as fast as guards can run. There also doesn't seem to be any kind of acceleration or deceleration when strafing, you're just moving full speed the whole time.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Gotcha. Actually I appreciate your response.

This just proves to me your more concerned about making a point than anything....Your on your mission to prove that "everyones trying to hide the games flaws" rather than actually discussing anything. I posted comments and a brief video there on how I consistenly avoid bumping...(on the sim setting at that) and you continue with your agenda...Is the bumping overdone? yes in your opintion, is it avoidable? yes, and thats a fact.

My bad, didnt know what your motives were, I wouldnt have said anything,

EDIT: Well yeah I still wouldve, but more guided to the people who arent trolling

As Czar pointed out in his post the bumping on the perimeter in the game serves a purpose as far as balance goes in 2k's representation of NBA basketball. But make no mistake, the amount and type of perimeter contact in this game was outlawed in the NBA circa 2001/2002 with the rules changes. For a very specific reason. Rod Thorn: " It's more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball. I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters."

Also, there are only a select few defenders who still try to engage in the type of perimeter D that all players engage in with this game.

[Disappoint]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Gotcha. Actually I appreciate your response.

This just proves to me your more concerned about making a point than anything....Your on your mission to prove that "everyones trying to hide the games flaws" rather than actually discussing anything. I posted comments and a brief video there on how I consistenly avoid bumping...(on the sim setting at that) and you continue with your agenda...Is the bumping overdone? yes in your opintion, is it avoidable? yes, and thats a fact.

My bad, didnt know what your motives were, I wouldnt have said anything,

EDIT: Well yeah I still wouldve, but more guided to the people who arent trolling

Really my point was I'm tired of people just dismissing legitimate concerns with "learn to play" or "you're just not doing it right" type comments.

I can make the CPU react to movement and get by defenders too, that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about bumping animations happening when they shouldn't and on top of that they don't call fouls. I find it quite condescending when people address legitimate gameplay issues with "well if you just play this way that won't happen".

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bumping and canimations

As Czar pointed out in his post the bumping on the perimeter in the game serves a purpose as far a balance goes in 2k's representation of NBA basketball. But make no mistake, the amount and type of perimeter contact in this game was outlawed in the NBA circa 2001/2002 with the rules changes. For a very specific reason. Rod Thorn: " It's more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball. I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters."

Not doubt, thats why I didnt argue the rules....I could list on and on what 2k allows that the real NBA wouldnt, it is a video game.

I was just giving advice on how to avoid it in the game, non aggressively at that lol

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Not doubt, thats why I didnt argue the rules....I could list on and on what 2k allows that the real NBA wouldnt, it is a video game.

I was just giving advice on how to avoid it in the game, non aggressively at that lol

I got you man. This game is the best we've ever had but we're a long way away from a true to life game. A little b****ing helps you stay focused lol.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Really my point was I'm tired of people just dismissing legitimate concerns with "learn to play" or "you're just not doing it right" type comments.

I can make the CPU react to movement and get by defenders too, that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about bumping animations happening when they shouldn't and on top of that they don't call fouls. I find it quite condescending when people address legitimate gameplay issues with "well if you just play this way that won't happen".

Yet, "Your lying, what you say is happening isnt really happening, your covering for the game" isnt condesceding?

I highlighted what the OP said in my response....sure sounded like his concern was getting by defenders w\o excessive contact....unless im WAY off base. If so, I stand corrected.

Id agree it can be annoying, but its so easily bypassed...I dont stress about it...I was simply addressing how I do so. I dont argue for the sake of arguing, I "argue" to get a solution...

Now there are things that flat out need to be fixed, I just dont feel this is as big as suggested.

[TeeDogg]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Great topic and thread really enjoyable read. There are a couple things I think are important to add. 2k11 is by no means perfect and can stand to be improved in a number of areas.

I completely understand guys wanting more blow by’s and less of the types of contact were seeing in the game.

The more time I spend talking with Dev’s the more I understand how much Game development is a process of moving from imperfect implementation to less imperfect implementation release by release.

2k11 was made in response to all the issues of 2k10. One of which being porous and ineffective defense. While this thread proves the solution is not perfect it did provide a solution to not only the offline game but the online game as well.

Online with the inherent delay without some form of contact it leaves the defense at a severe disadvantage.

For the offline gamer... While 2k11 represents the finest sim product to date IMO. It’s still lacking far too many fundamental basketball principals to accurately allow massive penetration and still provide a challenge for most advanced users.

The help defensive system this year is miles ahead of last year and with another year of improvement it will be in a much better position to account for the added pressure of dealing with more natural penetration.

Without the defense being as it is this year you wouldn’t have the pathway to take it from good but imperfect to next year which we hope will be less imperfection.

So we went from porous to maybe a bit overly effective but once your there you further adjust. The frustrating thing for some gamers is understanding that this was a necessary step to get to where you want to go.

Almost eveything in a game even if you hate it is there because is solves some type of problem and that is the issue with impoving the games year to year. They must make the improvements without also breaking what that last implementation fixed.

That said not all the contact in 2k11 is bad or unrealistic and this is where the issues come up in threads like these. Those making a legitimate point are countered by those who are also making a legitimate point but each side is only focused on the percentage of time where their example is correct.

If you take 10 offensive possession where contact is made and you have a user who understands 2k’s isomotion spacing and the right game type and slider settings. He may see 7 correct collisions and 3 of the ones that are not in any way shape or form sim or realistic.

For any game that would be a ratio most can live with.

Take another user who is may not have the same settings or may not attack the cpu the same way with spacing and isomotion and its very possible for that user to have the exact opposite with 3 correct collisions and 7 terrible ones that just don’t make sense.

This user is completely justified in his thesis that the contact in the game is overdone.

When people come into a thread like this one and attempt to post solutions they usually are coming from that First group who can acknowledge there are some poor collisons in the game but their personal playing experience is not dominated by those collisions. and of course visa versa.

While not perfect 2k has a way to account for speed and mismatch differences where you can indeed get the correct blow by animations without 20 seconds of stick olympics just to get by a guy. It may not line up with how you think it should be done but a solution is in place.( even with it though you will still have those possessions were not matter WHAT you do the collisions stops you when it shouldn't)

That said there are also serious limitations to the contact animations themselves. Including sucking you into the defense when you should be going past him that can still happen depending on your attack angle etc.

BUT there are also times with the right settings and using the solutions they provide when you can get by people as you should and slide off them rather than getting bumped back all the time.

What you don’t want to see though is them try to address this now and break something else.

I am working on a video to detail some of this but it will not mean that you will have 100% great collisions because of the issues with the system. It does not mean that there are no issues with the system.

The main culprit being they don’t have proper drop step collision animations so when you change directions the defenders feet do not drop but stay the same so when you make contact with him you get pushed back instead of advancing into his space and getting bumped along the way. That is where those defensive ride along animations would play out that were mentioned above.

Great thread couldn't find a shorter way to say it ... Apologies for the long windedness.

great post, i hope the Devs know that most of us understand the ballancing act they are facing. and at the same time marvel at what they are able to accomplish. i mean ive been sports gaming a long time and 2K/VC must have sold their souls lol . because what they accomplish with their bball titles is just miles beyond what others have been able to do (no not just EA) if this were back in the day when only "Game Killer" glitches and bugs got raked over the coals this game would be a perfect 10. but it seems today some expect every single aspect of a game to function just as in real life. it will never happen. there will always be quirky animations, a little clipping, AI hiccups, holes in the AI. but this game is well ahead of its time. bumping and all LOL

[mnus03]

Re: Bumping and canimations

The more time I spend talking with Dev’s the more I understand how much Game development is a process of moving from imperfect implementation to less imperfect implementation release by release.

Great post Czar

Its strange to me because I came on begby's thread expecting a huge amount of retaliation to the topic. It seems that's what's been happening on here when someone brings up something they think is not quite right about the game.

Instead it was for the most part pretty good basketball talk and i think that's a testament to how good the game is and how much the devs have put into it.

Its starting to look enough like real basketball where we can criticize it in very real basketball terms.

Its close enough to perfection that the things that aren't quite right feel bigger then they should.

This has never been lost on me and i would guess many of us that have critized certain aspects of the game. (Most1ed has blogged and written very respectfully about some problems with the "sim" experience)

I love this thread and others like it for two reasons.

1. Because the game has been so well recieved and almost coveted by some of the sim ballers on OS that i started to fear some legitimate discussion wasn't going to take place for next years game

2. Because its fun to talk basketball. And what makes basketball basketball.

Great thread BegBy
LOVE THE GAME LOVE THE DEVS LOVE THE EVOLUTION OF NBA2k GAMING

[jeffc1]

Re: Bumping and canimations

use JT and Dereks sliders...

[Beluba]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I'll take a stab at improving this for the patch.

[Jesus]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I'll take a stab at improving this for the patch.

The best solution would be to soften the collisions 13ft and out while strengthening the help defense including tightening the stationary charge effectiveness.

There need to be a better focus on defending the paint, and this is accomplished by cutting off driving lanes and being in position to draw an offensive foul

But of course you know this, im just a big advocate of defense.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I can't believe I got Czar and Beluba in my thread, and I wasn't even called a noob!!!!!!!!!

First off I think this thread is an overwhelming success and proves the game is baller (pun intended) and OS rocks. Seriously - a game dev reads what we say and actually takes it to heart. How awesome is that?

Anyway, as I said before, I know why it was implemented and it was warranted for sure. I just think with some slider changes, or using the animation(s) where you slowly get by but are forced a bit off course, and the frequency of said animations would dramatically improve gameplay.

Love this game. It's hard to keep on loving it for me right now, because the bumping kills me, but I have found that reverting to the initial roster with slider changes yields a much better play style for me. More control of the players as they seem to not be as jerky and slide a bit less (on both sides of the ball), and the bumping seems to be less with slider adjustments. I lose the off ball movement, but I am picking my poison. I can call plays if it gets too ugly.

Thanks all for contributing and thanks to Czar for being a good representative of the OS family, and thanks to Beluba for really caring, and trying. Look forward to the patch even more so now after reading this!!!!!!

Keep the posts coming gents & ladies.

[mnus03]

Re: Bumping and canimations

all i have to say is HAHAHA what just happened?

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

all i have to say is HAHAHA what just happened?

OS rocks and the 2k dev team rocks is what just happened.