Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

NO one is saying the concept of zone is over powered or that it is never used in the NBA. They are just stating the flaws and there are flaws to it.

1)There are no zone plays only man plays
2)Recovery is too fast
3)Your players won't post up against a zone
4)Spacing is bad (once again due to no zone plays)

The reason a lot of people play zone online is because it is a low risk/high reward. I try to play the best man defense as I can with proper help, screen hedging, playing off certain guys, and denying the ball of others. But with the way the online settings are right now..contested shots go in too often. The whole point of a man to stop outside shooting and to be able to rebound better. When those 2 aspects are irrelevant right now why even play a man? You might as well go for steals and creating turnovers instead of staying in front of your man and contesting shots. And what does 90 pct of the online community do anyways? They spam the steal button and try to steal the inbounds, so of course they are going to play zone. Their mentality is "If I spam the steal button this is good defense because I can create turnovers" when that is *** backwards in real life". No coach teaches you to reach in constantly and to take bad gambles in the passing lanes, because you will get burnt over and over.

I am a pretty decent player. I was like 130-20 last year and I am around 15-4 this year. It has nothing to do with "we can't beat a zone". Most people here that played in HS, College, or watch a lot of bball know how to beat a zone. It is the fact that are fundamental flaws with it (not game breakers or anything) and it can be a nuisance when this is all your opponent does and relies on. That is all we are saying.

For real talk...when is the last time you've seen an NBA team run a 1-3-1? There is a reason they don't and that is because the NBA courts and the proper spacing would destroy it. There are no 1-3-1 busters in any playbooks. You basically have to find a play that puts two shooters in the corner and attack the baseline. Once again though i am not saying it isn't beatable, because it is with some good shooters and ball movement. I am just giving my reasons on why I feel it is a bit imbalanced and why people tend to use it.

[TheKasmar]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

I've had more trouble against the zone this year against users who know how to use it because defenders can cover more ground faster. Plus, I'm facing double and triple team traps at the same time. If you're not extremely careful then you can find yourself down by alot of points quickly. I fear the Clippers the most because users can spam steals with Chris Paul while playing zone.

[marsblackmon]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

I don't know if it's "overpowered," but I definitely agree that the recovery on individual shooters, no matter what the defense is, is too strong. I've often passed out of a deep-post double team to the elbow three and long three, and I still have guys get off really good contests on my jumpers.

I think that's the problem with the zone and all defense this year: close-outs are just too good. I've only seen a couple instances where a player of mine in an online game, makes the jumper with a man running/jumping at him from far away, and the defender not being that close to the the release. (Like you can see a decent amount of room between the shooter and the defender's hand. And usually, for me, it's still a good, green release.) But in real life when a defender contests late and from too far it has little effect.

[demfl]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Most people here that played in HS, College, or watch a lot of bball know how to beat a zone. It is the fact that are fundamental flaws with it (not game breakers or anything) and it can be a nuisance when this is all your opponent does and relies on. That is all we are saying.

For real talk...when is the last time you've seen an NBA team run a 1-3-1? There is a reason they don't and that is because the NBA courts and the proper spacing would destroy it. There are no 1-3-1 busters in any playbooks. You basically have to find a play that puts two shooters in the corner and attack the baseline. Once again though i am not saying it isn't beatable, because it is with some good shooters and ball movement. I am just giving my reasons on why I feel it is a bit imbalanced and why people tend to use it.

The problem is you can use that same argument for anything in the game. Isolations with star players, 3 point shooting, up and unders; Technically I can point out how flawed, unrealistic or overpowered each example given are.

I guess Lebron James isn't realistic in this game. Play man against him, I will score 100 on you, is that realistic? I can hit at least 15 3pt shots with Stephen Curry each game, how many times will you see that during a NBA season?

Some people want to make sure we hear the buzz words like overpowered,cheese, realistic or video game like when it comes to zone defense but how realistic is everything else to begin with. Technically anyone can find fault and label every aspect of the game cheese and not realistic.

As already stated, zone can be easily countered and beat, you either adjust to beat it or get over it. The notion to single out zone as video game like isn't right to me. How realistic is it for me to start a franchise with the Hornets and win the championship?

[Fly3]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

All the defensive benefits of zone are offset by the concurrent beating you will receive on the offensive glass.

[PurePlayinSerb]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

im a basketball purist love playing man to man, but man to man is useless in this game, decided to give the weak in real life zone defense a shot, and now my defense magically turned unstoppable, that is clearly a flaw in the game, and an exploit, when everyone you play online is in a zone all game, that clearly is a flaw and an exploit

[PurePlayinSerb]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Do it with the Pistons and come back with your results

i have, and zone makes them hang with the big boys, especially when drummond is at center, and monroe at pf in a 1-3-1 zone

[demfl]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

im a basketball purist love playing man to man, but man to man is useless in this game, decided to give the weak in real life zone defense a shot, and now my defense magically turned unstoppable, that is clearly a flaw in the game, and an exploit, when everyone you play online is in a zone all game, that clearly is a flaw and an exploit

What you just said, I can say the exact same thing about every aspect of the offensive game in 2k13. Isolations, 3pt shooting, high dunk rating, Most of the signature skills would all be exploits according to your definition.

[PurePlayinSerb]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

What you just said, I can say the exact same thing about every aspect of the offensive game in 2k13. Isolations, 3pt shooting, high dunk rating, Most of the signature skills would all be exploits according to your definition.

that makes no sense

[OTCU]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

1-3-1 in 2K13 = Screen pass in madden 10

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

The problem is you can use that same argument for anything in the game. Isolations with star players, 3 point shooting, up and unders; Technically I can point out how flawed, unrealistic or overpowered each example given are.

I guess Lebron James isn't realistic in this game. Play man against him, I will score 100 on you, is that realistic? I can hit at least 15 3pt shots with Stephen Curry each game, how many times will you see that during a NBA season?

Some people want to make sure we hear the buzz words like overpowered,cheese, realistic or video game like when it comes to zone defense but how realistic is everything else to begin with. Technically anyone can find fault and label every aspect of the game cheese and not realistic.

As already stated, zone can be easily countered and beat, you either adjust to beat it or get over it. The notion to single out zone as video game like isn't right to me. How realistic is it for me to start a franchise with the Hornets and win the championship?

You are bringing up examples that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I don't see any threads saying Lebron James is overpowered. We all know he is the best. And if the Thunder can get to the Finals after a few good years of drafting and having bad years in the league then the Hornets could do the same in an Association mode.

If these defensive guru's are so good with their zone defense then why don't they show the same type of results when playing Man?

I just played someone who ran a trapping 1-3-1 zone the entire game. I got out rebounded 27-14, so there goes the rebounding theory. He shot 75 pct in the first quarter when I was playing man. Then I decided to switch to the same type of defense and all of a sudden I forced 15 turnovers and he only shot 45 pct rest of the game. Did my skills as a player all of a suddenly increase? No..sure didn't. Like I said low risk/high reward.

You can justify it by saying users don't adapt and blah blah but that is not the point of this thread. The point is there are fundamental flaws with zone defense. Like I said, I can't even post up or run any plays (sounds like you use neither in your game since you didn't respond to those complains) and that can be a huge deal to people who like to play like that. I love using the post game, but I can't against zone users. It is possible to post up against a zone IRL, so why can't I do it in the game? The best thing I can do against a zone is spread the court and hope my guys don't do stupid things like cut into the middle of the zone when I have penetrated and made the defense collapse on me to work them a wide open shot. However that usually doesn't happen and silly things like that result in TO's. I have also noticed a lot more careless turnovers by my AI teammates when a zone is being used against me. All of a sudden when I try to pass to an open guy the ball hits off the person who is guarding me and bounces to a defender for an easy transition bucket. Or I will try to make a skip pass and my guy can't catch the ball or my guy throws it out of bounds. I never see these things against a man.

I don't mind seeing the zone in the game and I don't even care if people play it against me, but if you truly don't see these things we all witness then you must have a different copy of the game. There is a reason 90 pct of people online play a zone defense and it isn't because people don't know how to beat a zone either.....All of us here have a good idea of how to attack a zone. The problem is it is poorly implemented in the game and it doesn't give us the opportunity to do bust a zone. There is no flashing to the high post or someone running baseline with proper spacing. There are no plays that set up a 2-1-2 offense and puts two shooters in the corner to attack the baseline of a 1-3-1. You basically isolate your guy and hope your teammates space the floor properly. I guarantee that is what you do too, so don't act like you know something we all don't.

[demfl]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

You are bringing up examples that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I don't see any threads saying Lebron James is overpowered. We all know he is the best. And if the Thunder can get to the Finals after a few good years of drafting and having bad years in the league then the Hornets could do the same in an Association mode.

If these defensive guru's are so good with their zone defense then why don't they show the same type of results when playing Man?

I just played someone who ran a trapping 1-3-1 zone the entire game. I got out rebounded 27-14, so there goes the rebounding theory. He shot 75 pct in the first quarter when I was playing man. Then I decided to switch to the same type of defense and all of a sudden I forced 15 turnovers and he only shot 45 pct rest of the game. Did my skills as a player all of a suddenly increase? No..sure didn't. Like I said low risk/high reward.

You can justify it by saying users don't adapt and blah blah but that is not the point of this thread. The point is there are fundamental flaws with zone defense. Like I said, I can't even post up or run any plays (sounds like you use neither in your game since you didn't respond to those complains) and that can be a huge deal to people who like to play like that. I love using the post game, but I can't against zone users. It is possible to post up against a zone IRL, so why can't I do it in the game? The best thing I can do against a zone is spread the court and hope my guys don't do stupid things like cut into the middle of the zone when I have penetrated and made the defense collapse on me to work them a wide open shot. However that usually doesn't happen and silly things like that result in TO's. I have also noticed a lot more careless turnovers by my AI teammates when a zone is being used against me. All of a sudden when I try to pass to an open guy the ball hits off the person who is guarding me and bounces to a defender for an easy transition bucket. Or I will try to make a skip pass and my guy can't catch the ball or my guy throws it out of bounds. I never see these things against a man.

I don't mind seeing the zone in the game and I don't even care if people play it against me, but if you truly don't see these things we all witness then you must have a different copy of the game. There is a reason 90 pct of people online play a zone defense and it isn't because people don't know how to beat a zone either.....All of us here have a good idea of how to attack a zone. The problem is it is poorly implemented in the game and it doesn't give us the opportunity to do bust a zone. There is no flashing to the high post or someone running baseline with proper spacing. There are no plays that set up a 2-1-2 offense and puts two shooters in the corner to attack the baseline of a 1-3-1. You basically isolate your guy and hope your teammates space the floor properly. I guarantee that is what you do too, so don't act like you know something we all don't.

Rebounding in the 1-3-1
I play the 1-3-1 and one of its biggest weaknesses is when the other team shoots, I have no one underneath the basket because my PF and C are outside of the paint in zone. If what you saying is true, that's all on you.

Realism and the Zone
Its very valid for me to bring up other subjects when talking about real life basketball. Do NBA teams run the zone full-time in real life? The answer is No. Does Stephen Curry make 10-15 3s every game? No but I can do it with him. Does Lebron average 50ppg game? No but I can do it with him and any other superstar. Will the Hornets win the championship this season? No, but they will in my association. Do Nba player Average 7 steals a game? No but my created my player does. Just like someone told me early on in this argument and I quote,'It's a video game".

Conclusion, the power of the zone is no different or overpowered than any other aspect of the "video game" 2k13.

Using your logic of "realism" I shouldn't be able to average 30ppg with Austin Rivers. I guess thats cheese.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Never said anything about Austin Rivers? If players leave him open then yeah that is possible. I am done arguing though, because you can't even stay on track or respond to my complaints on the matter. Instead your counter argument is that it is my fault and Austin Rivers can average 30 ppg. Nice!

[demfl]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Never said anything about Austin Rivers? If players leave him open then yeah that is possible. I am done arguing though, because you can't even stay on track or respond to my complaints on the matter. Instead your counter argument is that it is my fault and Austin Rivers can average 30 ppg. Nice!

Saying the Zone D is overpowered or flawed gives me room to open up a can of worms about all the other aspects of 2k13 basketball and so called realism.
The Austin Rivers example is used to make my point. When it comes to Zone D, isolating superstars, high dunk rated players with a low overalls, the Harrison Barnes and Austin River player types in 2k13; all can be lumped into the so called "exploit category", because the execution of results from the video game could never mimic their real life counter part.


This is why people often times say Barnes plays much better than his rating.The Zone D plays out much better compared to real life. Its all the same man, a video game but it's far from a exploit and if considered flawed then I guess everything about 2k13 is flawed.

Man defense is certainly flawed because it doesn't work against decent players.

[tuck243]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

I totally agree... I played this guy who had the NYK, I had the Lakers... He played 1-3-1 all game and frustrated me... (I also think this game is a cheese for the NYK because they are so dominant defensively, I just don't understand)... Didn't matter what I did... Kick it to the corner for an open 3 and Tyson Chandler got back in time to contest the shot... Everytime I head fake and drive to the hole 3-4 defensive players were in the paint to stop me... If I shook the PG up top and forced someone to pick up so I can dish off, Tyson simply tip the pass or if I did get it off, forced D12 to go into a ridiculous shot motion and blocked my shot... Outside of Tyson rushing to the 3pt line (it was controlled by user), the CPU did that... You know how much I wanted to throw the controller into the tv because it wasn't even a user stopping me???

Only time I found some daylight was when I slowed down and started a play from the top of the 3pt line... The issue there, THAT'S NOT HOW YOU BREAK A ZONE... You break the zone by penetrating and dishing with quick and decisive passing... If I can't do that I can't beat the zone... It's not about making the shot its about having good shots versus a zone... Which you should instantly especially in the NBA, THAT'S WHY TEAMS DON'T USE IT THAT MUCH... Y'all can say what you want... Very next game I ran that same zone on someone and they only shot 28% from the field... This is my first time running a zone on 2k versus ANYONE... They finally started to get open looks in the corner then I switched to the Center to close out now they were officially shut down...

I don't think I'm the greatest in 2K... I'm not saying that, I just know I ain't trash... I understand the game of basketball very well so I do well on the game... Outside of 3 games, the one with the BS zone, the guy who just ran passed my whole team every play with Shumpert (didn't matter if 3 guys were back they didn't help off to stop him), and the lag king (who hit a perfect shot everytime regardless if the game froze or not), I only lost 2 games out of 20 fair and square... I always have the hardest time versus the Knicks because Tyson Chandler is a force more so than D12... I should be 18-2... Now I'm 15-5 all because of BS... Defensively my team doesn't notice players driving, BUT the team I'm playing does?? Is this just me whose team play lazy versus another user like a regular game versus the CPU on fastbreak??