Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

[MadManCometh]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

People aren't seeing the big picture here yeah 2k can always remove zone defense and just make it difficult to play because of complainers but watch how those same people will complain when someone picks the heat and just bullies their way to the paint with lebron or wade, or any star players for that matter. Idk about everyone else but I'd take unrealistic running of zone in this game than be bullied down low. True zone isn't ran much in the NBA but unlike the nba there are ways to abuse the video game

See, here's the thing, I can deal with Lebron James taking me the the cup because he does that in real life. Maybe in the NBA 2K that is to over-powering, but at least it's possible in some fashion because that is what Lebron can do in real life. In no way is the zone defense in 2k as strong in real life. Not even possible. It's ridiculous on this game. I'll rather someone cheese me with Lebron for 40 points. Even though I may hate it, that is Leborn James. I can deal with it better than having my offense being shut down by some defense that's unrealistic. Lebron getting off is someone what realistic to some extent. He's the best player in the world.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

I think people using hyperbole has been part of the problem in this discussion. People talking about the zone being "unstoppable" or "unbeatable" are making rather significant claims w/o any significant data to back it up in my opinion. To be clear I am not say zone isn't the best defense in the game. But that is a different argument than saying it's "unbeatable" etc.

I have been getting rear end handed to me online while playing man to man defense, switched to zone and turned the game completely. Does that means it's unstoppable or unbeatable? Not necessarily. It could be that my opponent doesn't know how to beat a zone or hasn't practiced against it enough with the specific team he is using.

The argument 'everybody online is using it' doesn't prove it's unbeatable, or that it's the best defense either. In the past "everybody" thought the world was flat. That didn't make it true. I think there have been some solid arguments made that it is the best defense. I just want to clarify that this isn't one of them.

I have had success against my limited encounters against zones in online play. But it could be completely possible that I have played against poor zone players. I have attempted to practice against zones and discover plays that are useful against them. So far it has worked, but I haven't played and elite player. So maybe I just haven't been fully tested.

Comprehension question for you:

So u was playing man, and getting destroyed. Switch to zone and turned the game around. So using common sense, what does that tell u about zone defense??

You have 30 minutes..........

[PurePlayinSerb]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

LOL! Intelligent people know this! Especially when everyone in quick match is running zone defense. But what kills me, is guys that get on a online forum and try to defend this garbage. I guess this is the defense they run and they want to defend it so they don't feel as though they are not cheese. lmao! I'm sorry, if u can run a defense and the cpu gets you 10 steals without u doing anything that's wack!!

I got a lot of respect for you because you stated that you like to run man, but u admit to playing zone and how ur defense is unstoppable. See, you are a realist. You know it's not your skill that improved the defense, but the fact that the game is flawed. Unlike others who run zone and think it's realistic and they have some type of defensive skill. lmao!!

yeah thanks, kills me to play zone it really does, only way i can stay competitive online anymore, i've always ranked in at least top 1000's in every 2k, and i never changed out of man to man defense, its just so broken this year, if i stay in man im begging to lose, especially when i have yet to face anyone that doesn't use zone all game, besides i only played about 25 ranked games, im spending most my online time playing blacktop, and team-up all because the defense is that broken on quick matches.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

yeah thanks, kills me to play zone it really does, only way i can stay competitive online anymore, i've always ranked in at least top 1000's in every 2k, and i never changed out of man to man defense, its just so broken this year, if i stay in man im begging to lose, especially when i have yet to face anyone that doesn't use zone all game, besides i only played about 25 ranked games, im spending most my online time playing blacktop, and team-up all because the defense is that broken on quick matches.

Oh, I agree! I mean, it pains me to see people getting victories online just because they played zone defense. What happened to earning wins and winning because you were simply better? I mean, really, 2k hasn't been the same IMO since 2K8(last year they had the lobbies). Now u can get wins simply by selecting a certain team(Heat/Lakers) and playing zone(works with any team). They have to fix the on-ball man defense and they need to get rid of all these damn animations. The animations are nice but I feel it's over done. I passed to Boozer one play who was wide open but he did a 3 second animation to just catch the damn ball. So damn annoying, it should be a catch and dunk. Not all that dumb animation where he trying to gather and catch the ball like I threw him a football or something.

But I might give that team-up a try. Soon this quick match is going to get real old.

[suaveMMA]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

The zone d is completely overpowered. Not saying I dont use it myself whe going up against a cheeser. But its not full proof, adjust and make some switches thatll make a zoner switch back to man. Call Iso from top of the 3 point line, drive and kick. Make sure your wings can shoot effectively if not you wont make progress. I like using the clippers, drive with Paul and kick to Crawford or Butler and its money as Paul has Dimer and that makes Crawford and Vutler that more deadly against a 2-3 or a 1-3-1.

That being said almost everyone I play uses this defense, you just have to break em down effectively, and yes you will have to go through stupid catch animations that last forever and guys closing in on your shooters, its just the way it goes, that's why you need guys that will punish the D on the wings.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

The zone d is completely overpowered. Not saying I dont use it myself whe going up against a cheeser. But its not full proof, adjust and make some switches thatll make a zoner switch back to man. Call Iso from top of the 3 point line, drive and kick. Make sure your wings can shoot effectively if not you wont make progress. I like using the clippers, drive with Paul and kick to Crawford or Butler and its money as Paul has Dimer and that makes Crawford and Vutler that more deadly against a 2-3 or a 1-3-1.

That being said almost everyone I play uses this defense, you just have to break em down effectively, and yes you will have to go through stupid catch animations that last forever and guys closing in on your shooters, its just the way it goes, that's why you need guys that will punish the D on the wings.

Look, it's not that some of us can't get success against the zone. What u mentioned is not rocket scientist. Sometimes it work, but to often it doesn't. Way to often I've seen online players manually switch to the closest defender and close-out in time to recover. To often your cpu players don't recognize it's a zone and they will provide very poor spacing. Like two players standing by each other, or standing near a defender in zone. Or your player going into a 3 second catch animation, or the animation where they step back and catch the ball, thus taking them out of ideal position.

[thetalkofanation]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

The zone d is completely overpowered. Not saying I dont use it myself whe going up against a cheeser. But its not full proof, adjust and make some switches thatll make a zoner switch back to man. Call Iso from top of the 3 point line, drive and kick. Make sure your wings can shoot effectively if not you wont make progress. I like using the clippers, drive with Paul and kick to Crawford or Butler and its money as Paul has Dimer and that makes Crawford and Vutler that more deadly against a 2-3 or a 1-3-1.

That being said almost everyone I play uses this defense, you just have to break em down effectively, and yes you will have to go through stupid catch animations that last forever and guys closing in on your shooters, its just the way it goes, that's why you need guys that will punish the D on the wings.

I hope everyone reads what he just said. jesus it's not even that hard.. u have to get good at ismotion and euro-step kills zones. I blast people if they run zone on me.. i dont care if they have lakers heat or whatever.. i will run the table on you with the cavs or anyone. everyone can shoot mid-range jumpers in this game if they are open.. kind of like real life when real nba players play.. but god forbid anyone lose on this forum and they just cry

ccchhhheeeessseeeeeeee

[MMurda]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

you go with what works...if he is playing zone with on ball defense im pretty sure thats fine...i tend to not use zone that much because its too easy to give open shots

^ This. and the way that everyone hits jumpers all day long contested or not, and esp 3's on online quick match settings...i dont see how zone is overpowered AT ALL. im more of a man to man with zone mixed in a lil bit. i dont wanna give up that open or even semi open jumper cuz its $ on here so i limit my zone usage.

[mbmonk]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Comprehension question for you:

So u was playing man, and getting destroyed. Switch to zone and turned the game around. So using common sense, what does that tell u about zone defense??

You have 30 minutes..........

I already answered this. It was in my original post. It doesn't tell me any one specific thing. It suggests multiple possible reasons. But until I know the quality of the opponent I am playing on the other end ( how knowledgeable he is about basketball, 2K the video game, his players, and his playbook ) it doesn't tell me one specific answer.

I only face zones in 2K online. They aren't ran offline by the CPU to my knowledge. So I never had to worry about beating a zone until I played online. On top of that we have a defense that is relatively rare in real life basketball being used against us (1-3-1). So most people don't know how to beat it, much less actually practiced beating it. So of course it is going to give most people fits.

There are more than "1 zone play" in the game. It's our job to find them and use them against the proper zones. I have found multiple plays that attack zones and I have been fine so far.

Question for you:
Have you gone into practice mode and tried all the plays in your playbook against the zones you are having problems with?

You have 30 minutes.......... :P

[smace767]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

I was gonna leave this thread alone but some many dudes must have spent too much time playin 2k and not enough time really playin basketball, i had to jump in.

Zones are overpowered in real life if you dont know basketball and how to attack it.

Question; Why would the NBA make zones a violation(illegal defense) if they didnt work? Answer zones were overpowered and the avg NBA team didnt have enough ballhandling and shooting to beat it back then.

Why did the NBA bring zones back? because it was getting very hard for defenses to keep people out of the paint and games were starting to become one on one dunk and two man game isolation fest and low post domination every game. zones slow the offense down and protect the paint for those teams that didnt have the bodies to matchup. makes it harder for the offense and gives weaker teams a little better chance to defend.

This is a miami paper cryin about zone. sounds like some of yall;

Issue: It has been a decade since the NBA voted to allow zone defense. Prior to the switch in 2001, the league had a somewhat arcane set of rules that required man-to-man defense, with double-teams allowed only once an opposing player received the ball. The switch was to bring the league into conformity with the greater basketball community, and, frankly, coaches had found myriad ways to overcome the no-zone restrictions.

Heat angle: With two of the most dynamic perimeter scorers in the game in LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, the Heat have found themselves stymied at times by zone defenses that essentially load up against the athletic scorers and clog the paint, also inhibiting the likes of Chris Bosh. That, in turn, often can reduce the Heat to a jump-shooting team, reliant more on the likes of Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers and James Jones than the team’s stars.

We say: While this might come off as a somewhat parochial quibble, isn’t the entire point of NBA play to feature the star players, to provide the best possible canvas for the likes of James, Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Durant and other perimeter scorers to thrive with their athleticism? While zone defenses can mask individual defensive deficiencies, the NBA is as much an entertainment product as an athletic endeavor. As it is, the NBA still bans true 2-3 or 2-1-2 zones because the player in the middle of such alignments can go no more than 3 seconds without actively defending another player. In other words, the NBA still does not allow true zone defense. In that vein, returning to a truer man-on-man approach could enhance the game and open up scoring, creating a more visually appealing product.

next post usa today article about zones in nba.

[smace767]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

USA today

During the Western Conference finals two seasons ago, then-Los Angeles Lakers coach Phil Jackson derided, in his unique way, the Phoenix Suns' use of the zone defense.

Suns coach Alvin Gentry played along. "If we have to play our girlie zone, as somebody said, we'll play our girlie zone," he said. "We're going to do whatever we have to do to win."
There is a certain disdain for zone defenses. "Zone is usually an admission that you're not as good as the other team," TNT analyst and former Suns general manager Steve Kerr said.

Zone defense makes players guard an area on the court, not a specific player. It's become more than a gimmick if not quite a mainstay defense since being allowed in a 2001-02 rule change. NBA executives thought the game had become mired in one-on-one and two-on-two isolation on one side of the court while players on the opposite side essentially watched.

Teams switch to zone to slow an efficient offense, give a different look, force a bad shooting team into taking outside shots or to limit a dominant big man. It can also help a player in foul trouble stay on the court.
There are drawbacks. Good shooters can quickly get a team out of zone with three-pointers. It's also more difficult to box out for rebounds when a defender is not guarding a specific player.
There is one exception in the NBA to a traditional zone: defenders cannot stay in the lane for more than three seconds at a time if they are not actively guarding an opponent. The result is a technical foul for defensive three seconds. Allowing zone, in theory, creates a more fluid game.

The Hawks, when they beat the Heat on Jan. 2, used zone on 25 of 90 defensive possessions, Synergy says. Miami scored on 11 of those possessions.
The Heat are ranked 20th against the zone, according to Synergy. They are No. 4 against a man-to-man.
But holes in a zone can be found. "I tell our guys, 'We don't know exactly where it's going to be. It's your basketball IQ that has to figure it out,' " Thunder coach Scott Brooks said.
The next key to beating the zone in half-court sets is universal. Find a versatile player who can dribble, drive or shoot flashing to the middle of the foul line. That forces the zone to collapse on the ballhandler, opening options: an open shot or drive to the basket, shooters on the perimeter or post players down low.

Zones remain divisive. NBA TV analyst Steve Smith, a former All-Star, said he would outlaw it, arguing that players who can't guard a man should get off the court or get help. "You put in zone, you take away stars," he said. "It takes away from what the NBA game was."
Kerr objected. He loves the added strategy of the zone.
"If a team goes zone, you have to bring your shooters on the floor," he said. "If you're too small at the other end with your shooters, you have to figure out a countermove defensively. Maybe you press, maybe you trap with speed.
"Whatever it is, it's the coach's job to figure out. That's what I love about the game, the back and forth."

next post; zone 101

[smace767]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

Zone defenses were prohibited in the National Basketball Association prior to the 2001–2002 season. The NBA currently permits the use of zones; however, teams generally do not use them as a primary defensive strategy and no zone defense may feature an unguarded defender inside the free-throw lane (a violation of that results in a defensive three-second violation, which is a technical foul).

The Dallas Mavericks are an example of an NBA team that regularly uses zone defenses; during the 2011 Playoffs, their zone defense was credited with slowing down offenses, forcing opposing players to recognize which defense they were playing.[1] Zone defenses are more common in international, college, and youth competition.

[edit]Advantages of playing a zone defense
There are several reasons for a team to use a zone defense. Some are listed below.

The opposing team has a player or players too quick (in the case of guards) or too big (in the case of forwards or centers) for a man-to-man defense to be effective.

Many zones pack defenders in the lane but allow the offensive team to take long-range shots. If the opponents are poor long-range shooters, a zone can be very effective.
Unless trapping is involved, zone defenses typically do not involve aggressive pressure on the ball handler and allow the offensive team to pass the ball around the perimeter, leading to more time being used by the offensive team before a shot is attempted. Therefore, teams wanting to slow down the tempo of a game will often choose to play zone.

A poor defensive player can often be "hidden" in a zone because teammates can more easily help if he or she is beaten.
If players are in danger of fouling out (especially forwards or centers, who typically guard the lane), using a zone helps to take the pressure off them.
Playing a zone is usually less tiring than playing man-to-man, so fatigued teams are more inclined to use zones.

Some teams play a zone when the opponents inbound the ball under the basket to help prevent easy scores off of screen plays.
Against teams with inexperienced guards, trapping zones can disrupt the offense and force turnovers.
[edit]Disadvantages of playing a zone defense

Playing a zone entails some risks. Some are listed below.
Zones tend to be weak on the perimeter, so they are not very effective against teams with good outside shooters.
Zones have gaps (areas that are not well-covered by defenders) that can be exploited by teams that pass well or have guards capable of penetrating the zone.

If a team is behind in the game, playing a zone is a poor strategy because zones usually allow the offense to take more time off the clock on each possession, which limits the time remaining for the losing team to reduce the lead. It also reduces the chances of stealing the ball from the attackers and attempting a quick counterstrike across open field. This is not always true, there are pressure zone defenses that can often cause quicker shots by the opponent or result in turnovers
When a shot is attempted, it is often harder for players in a zone to find counterparts to box out for the rebound, which sometimes results in an offensive player getting an easy offensive rebound.

Zone defenses require a commitment to scheming and practicing zone, both from coaches and players. While most players are familiar with playing zone defense, they are sometimes not expert in the nuances of the zone, such as spacing, which require familiarity and experience. When man-to-man teams switch to the zone defense, it is sometimes seen as a gimmick that is easily exploited by disciplined teams.

[edit]Attacking a zone defense
While strategies for countering zone defenses vary and often depend on the strengths and weaknesses of both the offensive and defensive teams, there are some general principles that are typically used by offensive teams when facing a zone.
Many popular zones (such as the 2–3 and 1–2–2) have a gap in the middle of the lane. Getting the ball in this area can be very effective because the defense is often forced to "collapse" on the ball handler, freeing up other players for open shots. To exploit this gap, many teams assign a forward to operate in the "high post" area near the free throw line to catch and distribute the ball. A forward in the high post area can also set screens on the players at the top of the zone to allow penetration by the guards.

Quick passing is an important element of attacking any zone. The defense will shift as the ball moves, but if the offense can move the ball faster than the defense can react, open shots can result. Quick passing against a zone often leads to open three-point shots, and zone defenses are less effective against teams with good three-point shooters.

Dribble penetration is very effective in breaking down a zone. If a guard can dribble into the gaps in the zone, multiple defenders must converge on the ball. The ball handler can then often pass to an open teammate for a shot. This strategy illustrates why preventing dribble penetration is important in playing an effective zone defense.

Passing the ball to the interior of the zone can have similar effects as dribble penetration: as the defense collapses, a quick kick-out to the perimeter can result in either an open shot or continued quick passing, as the defense is now imbalanced.

Short Corner: Attacking the "Short Corner", or baseline area behind the defense outside the lane, against a 2-3 zone puts the defense in rotation and opens up the mid post.

Screening the backside of the zone: this opens up weakside shooters off a skip pass or ball rotation.

[smace767]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

i posted all that sh!t because to me many were confused on how good a zone can do what it does and its role in the NBA.

a true zone is still banned because its too powerful and slows the game down and could make plays in the paint very hard for the offense.

when uconn won the championship with Kemba they killed teams that played man to man all season. they lost all the games because teams played zone and hey had not figured out how to play zone offense. The zone was too strong over powered what ever you want to call it. once they figured it out, its a wrap, big east champs and national champs.

In this video game if you do what you should do vs a zone it will work.

what wont work is isolation and 50 million isomotion moves, pick and roll motion and backdoor cut offenses and straight pass and jack around the perimeter. that wont work fella. get in the playbooks and find the plays that can get it.

im worried some dudes will want to say double teams are too powerful next.

free hint floppy miller and jet over can still work vs zones.

[mbmonk]

Re: Zone Defense Is So Overpowered

free hint floppy miller and jet over can still work vs zones.

This can't be possible! If it doesn't have "Zone Killer" included in the name of the play it can't possibly work against a zone! Or at least that is the impression I get from some individuals who are posting in this forum.

[bls]

This can't be possible! If it doesn't have "Zone Killer" included in the name of the play it can't possibly work against a zone! Or at least that is the impression I get from some individuals who are posting in this forum.

What about when your play keeps disappearing because they are switching back and forth from man to zone?

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